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The Big & Dandy Syrian Rue & Harmala MAOI Alkaloids Thread

^ You're forgetting that Harmine is a MAOI. If you take a MAOI, especially nasally, you inhibit MAO, period, and there is simply no reason in the whole world to snort something that compromises your body's natural defences, especially if you're not doing it to activate something like DMT.
 
^^ Well, harmala alkaloids have been studied as antidepressants due to their MAO inhibiting nature. Still, dangerous territory, for sure. And best not to do without medical supervision or serious understanding of what you're doing.
 
Sure is. Well, I know the absence of negative effects is not an indication of safety, but, I've taken my harmala once in awhile, sometimes in large amounts, and usually alone, for years. I've never had tyramine/BP issues, no longer get tremors, and again never really had negatives in all my usage.
 
syrian rue tolerance?

If I use syrian rue today, will I develop a tolerance for the MAO inhibiting effect? Will the rue work again the next day?
 
Merged in a question about syrian rue tolerance. We've got a Big and Dandy for this stuff now. ;)
 
IMAO: a substance that has the property of inhibiting the monoamine oxidase enzyme.
There are two kinds of IMAO: IMAO-b and IMAO-a.
IMAO-b cannot be used for psychedelic drugs potententiation and will not make dmt orally active

Some antidepressant medecines are IMAOs: moclobemide is an IMAO-a and deprenyl is an IMAO-b

ayahuasca brew, harmala (syrian rue), banisteriopsis caapi all contains harmine and harmaline and tetrahydroharmaline which all 3 are IMAOs

Yohimbe contains yohimbine which also has IMAO properties.
This one should never be used to make ayahuasca (very dangerous as it is highly hypertensive)

In a lesser degree, AMT is said to have some moderate IMAO activity.

Well, let's add that Passiflora incarnata contains small amounts of harmine and harmaline, so it has a light IMAO effect but it is very safe, even in combination with other drugs as long: as you use it in common dosage, its IMAO activity will be weak enough so not to worry about it.


Important: note that some IMAOs can cause hypotension, orthostatic hypotension, tachycardia and cardiac palpitations


Dangerous (potentially fatal) mixes that should be avoided: do not mix IMAOs with...

*alcohol
*depressants (meaning anything that can make you feel drowsy, sleepy, sedated, many plants, drugs and medecines can do that so be very careful. Note that anti-psychotic and anti-anxiety medecines and downers are depressants.)
*stimulants
*vasoconstrictors
*vasodilatators
*hypertensive substances
*hypotensive substance
*substances significantly increasing heart beat
*substances significantly decreasing heart beat
*tyramine
*tryciclic antidepressants: anafranil, ludiomil, nortrilen, pertofran, prothiaden, redomex, quitaxon, sinequan
*IMAO antidepressants (as that could lead to a fatal IMAO surdosage)


...in a general way, it is advised not to mix IMAO with any kind of antidepressants (including IRS antidepressants and lithium)


Also note that one should observe a strict diet before using harmala, caapi, or ayahuasca (some common foods beeing contraindicated).
So, if interested in trying ayahuasca mixes, it's very important to get informed about food precautions and diet rules.
 
Add to list above: DXM cough remedies, (pseudo)ephedrine fall under stimulants and should not be combined.

Tolerance: In the short term, not too much at all. It is not like mushroom tolerance. But in the long-term, tolerance applies. I find that since I started consuming harmala periodically, four years ago, that when I take it now, more is required. This is even after months of not taking it. The tolerance manifests as, less auditory buzzing, less body load, and absence of "essential tremor" / shakyness. HTH.
 
well let's be more clear about what falls under which category of contraindicated substances (non-exhaustive list):

Depressants (substance that have a depressive effect on the central nervous system):
alcohol, kava, sedatives, sleep-aids, tranquilizers, anxiolytics, analgesics, anaesthetics, benzodiazepines (for instance diazepam aka valium, etc..), poppies, opium (and poppy extract), heroine, morphine, codeine, opiates & opioids, ketamine, pcp, dxm, ghb & gbl, ether, LSA.
In other words, any substance that can make one feel sleepy, drowsy, sedated.
Note that excess of any depressant substance can lead to respiratory depression, come, convulsions, suffocation and death.

Substances causing bradycardia (slow down heart beat):
this is the case of quite a few depressants, notably ketamine and heroine.
Foxglove (digitalin) is also known to cause severe bradycardia.
Note that excess of any substance causing bradycardia can lead to hypotension, cardiac arrhythmia(=irregular heart beat) and periferal vasoconstriction (=contraction of blood vessels in body extremities, which are left poorly irrigated with blood, possibly causing necrosis of extremities in the most extreme cases).

Substances causing hypotension (decrease blood pressure):
dimenhydrinate (aka dramamine) and related medecines, sinicuichi...
Note that excess of any hypotensive substance can lead to periferal vasoconstriction, bradycardia and cardiac arrhythmia.

Stimulants (substance that have a stimulating effect on the central nervous system, making you feel speedy):
cocaine, crack, exstasy, amphetamines (speed), methamphetamine, phenethylamines (mdma, mda, mescaline, and 2C's such as 2c-b are all phenethylamines), ephedra, ephedrine, pseudoephedrine, herbal exstasy, khat, yohimbe (yohimbine).
Note that excess of any stimulant substance can lead to hypertension, tachycardia (fast heart beat) and arrhythmia, and therefore it can be really dangerous for one's heart (cardiovascular incident).

Substances causing hypertension (increasing blood pressure) and/or tachycardia (accelerating heart beat):
That is the case of many stimulants such as cocaine, excstasy, amphetamines (speed), metamphetamine, phenethylamines (mdma, 2c-b...), ephedra, ephedrine, pseudoephedrine, herbal exstasy, khat. It's also the case for a few tryptamines (such as 5-meo-dmt), amanita muscaria (fly agaric mushroom), solanaceae plants such as datura (atropine, scopolamine), dxm, yohimbe (yohimbine), and also many aphrodisiacs which action is to cause elevated blood pressure and vasodilatation.
Note that excess of any hypertensive substance can lead to serious cardio-vascular incident.

Substances causing vasoconstriction (contraction of blood vessels):
pseudoephedrine, ephedra & ephedrine (and therefore herbal exstasy also), LSA (contains ergines with powerful vasoconstrictive properties, notably ergometrine), ergot alkaloids (ergotamine, ergometrine and quite a few other ergines...), dimenhydrinate (aka dramamine), cocaine and crack , adrenaline, noradrenaline, dopamine.
Note that any substance causing serious vasoconstriction can lead to hypertension, tachycardia and arrhythmia, so there's a real risk for one's heart (cardiovascular incident)

Substance causing vasodilatation (dilatation of blood vessels):
yohimbe, yohimbine, poppers and also quite a few aphrodisiacs which action is to cause elevated blood pressure and vasodilatation.
Note that excess of any substance causing pronounced vasodilatation can lead to cardiovascular incident.


All of these are to be avoided when using IMAO's!

If you wanna mix a chemical or plant with IMAO's, you have to do your own researches to ensure that this substance does not fall under any of these categories (as obviously I could not list every known chemicals and plants in here, so many are lacking)

PS: of course, keep in mind that one should not take IMAO's along with tyramine nor when using antidepressants (especially tryciclic antidepressants). See my previous post.
 
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^^ And don't forget sildenafil and similars can cause unsafe dropping of blood pressure when combined with MAOI's. MAOI's are usually not something you want to play around with, although Tribulus terrestris contains harmine and I've not noticed many side effects in combination with various antidepressants. I can't seem to find any info on just how much harmine is contained in tribulus though. Harmine and related alkaloids can be found in tobacco as well.
 
Hi all, very interesting thread. Im unsure as to wether dietary restrictions even fasting applies to Smoking Syrian Rue? Due to it bypassing the gut.

I am planning on vaping some DMT sometime soon and am considering smoking syrian rue beforehand to lengthen the trip.
 
The dietary restrictions and so forth would definitely still apply. Those restrictions are because there are substances in some foods and many kinds of drugs that will become dangerous when MAO is inhibited. Is has nothing to do with what route you use to ingest the MAOIs.
 
I'd definitly reccommend caution, but it is possible that smoking harmal seeds could reduce the "cheese syndrome" to some degree over taking them orally. Recently, the MAOI, selegiline has been made available in transdermal patch doses (Emsam), which has shown to reduce the need for dietary restrictions. I believe that the effects of selegiline last significantly longer than harmine/harmaline as well, so it could definitly make a difference how one consumes them.
 
Syrian Rue

I have read all the dietary restriction, but would like to know how long I should stick to these? Because I have not been able to find any information on the half-life of the MAO.
 
Merged this question about harmala alkaloids' half-life.

Unfortunately, I don't know the answer, but I'm sure someone does.
 
Syrian rue's effects tend to wear off in about 8-12 hours, unless you're taking it daily, of course, while most rx MAOI's last far longer, ime. Harmine and harmaline are basically only partial MAOI's, but I'm sure this has been covered already in this thread.
 
Smoking Syrian Rue

I am fairly sure this would work to get the MAOI goodness out of the rue, but does anyone have any experience doing it? I am mainly concerned about the nausea associated with this method of administration - I am guessing that it would be less, as the harmala alkaloids wouldn't be sitting around irritating the stomach. I assume that if it does work, it would also be shorter-acting, but I wonder if long enough to eat some DMT?
 
I've smoked the rue before, since I just cannot get that stuff down my throat.
trouble is you've got to take bong after bong of it and it didn't seem as effective as oral ingestion. Now I just pound the seed up and put them in gel caps and drink with water and a bit of lemon juice.
I'm wondering how long you fasted before taking the rue? I've only rarely had mild stomache problems (*touch wood*)
 
You would need to preform at least a rudimentary extraction.
Even then, we'd need to know if harmaline and harmine vaporize at a temperature lower than that at which they combust.

ebola
 
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