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The Big & Dandy Syrian Rue & Harmala MAOI Alkaloids Thread

C

Crazy Cloud

Bluelighter
Joined
Sep 15, 2002
Messages
24

Welcome to the Big & Dandy Syrian Rue / Harmala MAOI alkaloids Thread

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250px-Syrian_Rue_Seeds.jpg
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Harmaline -------------- Syrian Rue seeds -------------- Harmine

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FAQ said:
Q: What are MAOI's ?

A: MAO or MonoAmine Oxidase is a kind of enzyme in your body that metabolizes serotonin, norepinephrine and dopamine - all neurotransmitters acting in your nervous system that are of the class monoamines. By inhibiting
these, MAOIs increase levels of those neurotransmitters.
Quite a number of drugs can act the way they do because they resemble neurotransmitters in your body. They get involved in the household of these messenger chemicals and change the messages that are being sent in your brain. For example tryptamines such as DMT resemble serotonin and phenethylamines such as mescaline resemble dopamine (yet mescaline interacts with serotonin systems of the brain).
MAO enzymes are used by the body to break down drugs like DMT, if you take MAOI (MAO inhibitors or MAO blockers), you prevent your body from breaking down the drugs properly and this amplifies / potentiates the effects of the drug since there is more of the drug to remain in action.
In the case of DMT, MAO enzymes are so proficient at breaking down the drug that you can't even get DMT to work if you just eat it. However by first impairing these defense mechanisms in your body, you can make DMT orally active so that it can be eaten or imbibed via a brew. Certain brews that combine DMT and MAOI compounds are called ayahuasca which has been used by shamans in the Amazonian rainforest for ages.

Q: What is Syrian Rue ?

A: Syrian Rue (Peganum Harmala) is a plant that has seeds which contain beta-carboline chemicals which act as MAO inhibitors. It is an example of a relatively commonly used source of MAO inhibitors and it can have subtle effects of its own. It can also cause some nausea. Note that there exist also pharmaceuticals that can act as MAOI's which may have less psychoactive effects of their own and also less nausea. Moclobemide (Aurorix) is an example of this. However this choice is obviously not traditional like ayahuasca and its ingredients. Pharmaceutical based combinations of DMT and MAOI's are sometimes referred to as 'pharmahuasca'.

Warning: because MAOI / MAO Inhibitors weaken the body's defense mechanisms it can be dangerous to ingest certain foods or recreational drugs such as MDMA (ecstasy). You can read below what needs to be avoided to prevent potentially life-threatening interactions / accidents from happening!
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External Information Links:




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I've read from a few different sources about yage / telepathine conferring "telepathic" powers onto it's users... here, an example:
John Balance says "Telepathine is one of the constituent compounds of Yage... I think Telepathine was one of the first to be identified as being present in the brew and as one of Yage's powers is to bestow telepathy on participants thats how it got its name."
William Burroughs and Allen Ginsberg were so interested in telepathine that they hacked thru South American jungles a-way back to experience yage first hand... unfortunately, I've never been able to read IF they experienced "telepathy" or not...
Now, I'm pretty sure that it doesn't REALLY bestow telepathy upon the user, but my question is: has anybody using yage / ahauasca / harmaline / DMT had any experiences that would lead them to describe the effects of the drug as being "telepathic"?
Now that salvia is illegal in Australia, I've considered trying to do a DMT extraction and see what it's like, especially if such 'powers' (imagined or otherwise) were part of the trip.
Any feedback would be great. Thanks for taking the time to read. :)

For some user's info on several tryptamines when combined with MAOI:

cegli said:
I wouldn't be surprised if no one has tried this. Thus, it may be dangerous, or may not be. Here is what we know if I remember right:

DMT + MAOI = Activates it orally, roughly double potency and length snorted and smoked.
MET + MAOI = Similar to above (increases potency orally as oppose to activates)
DiPT + MAOI = ?
DPT + MAOI = Similar to MET + MAOI
5-MeO-DMT + MAOI = Very dangerous, probably responsible for one death (http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/5meo_dmt/5meo_dmt_health.shtml)
5-MeO-DiPT + MAOI = Increased body load, maybe dangerous? The person definitely took way too much (http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=24026)
5-MeO-MiPT + MAOI = Large body load even on low dose, could be dangerous. (http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=24026)
4-AcO/HO-DMT + MAOI = Ayahuasca like and intense, probably not dangerous but mentally trying? (http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=58480)
4-AcO/HO-MiPT + MAOI = Unknown AFAIK.

So, my guess would be that MiPT + MAOI would be safe, make it more intense, double potency, lengthen the duration of action, and increase the body load. That is only a guess though. It may be very dangerous, so be careful. Hope this helps.
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I have had telepathic experiences and other forms of non-verbal communication with people I am close with while on a variety of pychedelics. Such phenomena is not just limited to beta-carbolines.
 
As have I. In fact, I have studied this phenomenon semi-empirically. I have a very close and unique relationship with my partner and best friend, and we often trip together. On our excursions, we typically go to similar places, which is most prominent when we take something that causes out of body - like ketamine. However, we don't discuss non-verbal communications that we had during the trip, until after the trip has completely ended. Almost every time I think I was communicating psychically, I was indeed.
Outside of psychedelic experiences, I am not psychic - although I have a strange sense of feeling certain positive or negative energies - and can communicate with my UFO scientist friend without speaking; he can understand me but I cannot understand him. He answers questions that I'm asking him in my mind, but not out loud...
[ 18 September 2002: Message edited by: erica.smerica ]
 
I have had conversations with friends that never actually happened which both of us have noticed whilst on ketamine. I know this because the trip sitter said that neither of us spoke for the entire experience, yet me and my friend both remember having the exact same conversation during the hole. I haven't relaly noticed this with any other psychadelics, although i have noticed the ability to read people emotions much easier on various other psychadelics.
 
Wow, guys, sounds cool. :)
I'm REALLY interested in having such an experience, because I have a coupla mates that I'm real close with and we often do DXM or E or salvia together and I'd just love to have a 'telepathic' experience as a group or even in pairs...
What are some of the psychedelics that gave you a non-verbal communicative experience, MorningGlorySeed?
Oh, and by the way, Ketamine is a dissociative, isn't it?
Has anyone on any other dissociatives had a 'telepathic' experience?
 
many psychedelics seem to have significant telepathy-enhancing properties, caveat being that it appears you and "conversation partner/s" have to be in the same mindspace, ie take doses with consideration of metabolic specifics that will produce similar states to facilitate telepathic communication.
btw, there is definitely a difference between true telepathy - nonverbal communication at the speed of thought - and drug-induced enhanced perceptual/empathogenic states which often get confused with it (ie ability to better read body clues, normally suppressed)
 
Originally posted by Crazy Cloud:
What are some of the psychedelics that gave you a non-verbal communicative experience, MorningGlorySeed?
It has happened a lot of times, especially when I trip with my g/friend. Some occasions that come to mind involved baby woodrose seeds, DMT, a 4-AcO-DET/ketamine combo, ketamine, 2C-T-7, and once on LSD. And yes...ketamine is a dissociative.
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Originally posted by frqntflyr:
btw, there is definitely a difference between true telepathy - nonverbal communication at the speed of thought - and drug-induced enhanced perceptual/empathogenic states which often get confused with it (ie ability to better read body clues, normally suppressed)
Yes, in my case I am refering specificly to words and thoughts. Not emotional cues and feelings of empathy.
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Whatever you are smoking, it is doing some serious damage to your brain. I am not sure what the above has to do with the topic.
 
Thanks a lot, everyone.
I've been considering doing a DMT extraction from phalaris aquatica for some time now, as well as trying to get my hands on some K, though not because of the prospect of non-verbal communication - but now I've got a further hankering to try both as it seems there *might* be the possibility that I could have such an experience. :)
 
MGS is correct I have had thoughts where we conjur up stupid things that 'we' as people think. eh psychedelics, you can't live with' em and you can't live withou'em.
 
doesn't telepathine = tetra-hydroharmine?
only present in significant quantities in B. caapi (and perhaps other amazionan plants?), thus supposedly facilitating a more telepathic experience than, say, syrian rue?
 
There is a connection of some sort. People on ayahuasca beam their trip to other people. Hang out with someone who is on ayahuasca some time. You'll start trippin too. Not as hard as them but still.
 
Originally posted by SpiritualTaboo:
People on ayahuasca beam their trip to other people. Hang out with someone who is on ayahuasca some time. You'll start trippin too. Not as hard as them but still.
How can that be possible, though? Do you have any trip reports or details I could read? Has anybody here ever experienced a beamed trip? Ayahuasca or something else?
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Originally posted by Crazy Cloud:

I've been considering doing a DMT extraction from phalaris aquatica for some time now
I'd strongly consider using another source. The grasses have DMT, as well as considerable amounts of 5-MeO-DMT and sometimes 5-HO-DMT (bufotenine). The end result is an extraction that is not going to have the same effects as smoking pure N,N-DMT freebase.
I'd use Mimosa hostilis or Desmanthus illinoensis instead. Mimosa is your best bet.
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Why do people continue to do extractions from phalaris grass in the hopes of haveing a DMT trip. It's certinlyu not the only ethenobotanical, and Mimosa bark isn't expensive.
 
Hey, thanks for the advice about the DMT extraction, MorningGlorySeed - I just figured phalaris aqautica would be the easiest thing for me to procure seeing as it grows naturally along the creek near my house and there's a shitload of it - but I'll have to look up the plant you suggested. :)
This forum / site has been so informative for me, I've been digging up stuff in your search engine on stuff I'd never even heard about - not to mention the really good drugs in the media section you guys have here - between bluelight and erowid, I think I've had more legitimate and double sided (as in both sides of the issue) drug education than all the years I spent in high school.
Which brings me to my new post about drug education (which I'll do as a new thread).
 
Harmala

Are there any FAQ's concerning Harmala? I've been searching around trying to gather information about this topic, but most of it isn't as detailed as I would like it to be.

As far as the actual chemicals Harmine, Harmaline, Harmol, Harmalol, etc. what are the dosages for significant MAOI activity? What are the dosages for psychoactivity?

Are there significant differences between the above chemicals?

TiHKAL shows some dosage information about Harmine and Harmaline, but doesn't state how much is needed for MAOI activity.

I've heard of some people smoking harmine/harmaline. I don't know how this affects potency and duration of effects. Has anyone tried insufflation?

Is there any type of body load associated with harmala?

In your opinion, what is the safest, most practical, and easiest way to use harmala?
 
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