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The Big & Dandy Syrian Rue & Harmala MAOI Alkaloids Thread

Well as its been said harmine can also be found in passionflower, but if I remember right, the amount is roughly 1/20th that of P.harmala, and also varies between various passionflower species. Its also present in small amounts in Tribulus terrestris and tobacco as well. I've never noticed significant MAOI effects from tribulus though, but I had experienced some psychedelic effects from smoking a very large amount of tobacco, although only once and many years ago. Some Native American tribes used very strong brews made from tobacco juices to induce visons, which may have contained significant amounts of harmine.
 
has anyone ever come across "Haoma and Harmaline: The Botanical Identity of the Indo-Iranian Sacred Hallucinogen" by Flattery and Schwartz? I would love to get a hold of a .pdf since the chances of finding a paper copy are probably quite remote. The arguments put foreword in the book are described as "highly persuasive and convincing."
http://www.huxley.net/soma/index.html

The idea of of Syrian Rue being Soma/Haoma is quite fascinating.

When I took ayahuasca for the first time, I got the idea that Soma could be an ayahuasca type drink, using syrian rue and psilocybin mushrooms, since there seems to be strong evidence for both the mushroom and syrian rue hypotheses.
 
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Great read on pineal power 11 11!

In looking for more information about beta-carbolines as serotonin re-uptake inhibitors, and also about beta-carbolines produced in our bodies, I found this page http://www.maps.org/news-letters/v04n2/04230cal.html
Monoamine oxidase type A (MAO-A) is an enzyme which normally inactivates tryptamines, though it can be chemically blocked to prevent their destruction and thus facilitate their activity. Some of the older antidepressant drugs work this way. In general, though with some reservations, beta-carbolines will inhibit this enzyme. Another mechanism of tryptamine inactivation, particularly for serotonin, is by reuptake into pre-synaptic vesicles. Newer classes of antidepressants (SSRIs) act by blocking this uptake, and neuronal activity is facilitated by preventing the retreat of excess serotonin, and probably other tryptamines, into the pre-synaptic neuron for storage and recycling. Certain endogenous beta-carbolines can also inhibit this (re)uptake of the serotonin (10). These two routes, MAO metabolism or (re)uptake into pre-synaptic vesicles, account for most of the inactivation of endogenous tryptamines, and some endogenous beta-carbolines can inhibit both pathways. Pinoline (6-methoxytetrahydro-beta-carboline) and tetrahydro-beta-carboline are good examples of this, and both have been shown to possess specific binding sites in the pineal, adrenals and specific areas of the brain (11).

This must be what someone was referring to, when they said that the "SSRI" effect of harmala also greatly contributes to preventing breakdown of DMT and other tryptamines. This is an interesting dual-action here.

It is also interesting to me that, they may act as both an MAO inhibitor, and a re-uptake inhibitor. But, I've certainly never experienced 'serotonin syndrome' from taking harmala. It goes to show how little we know about how these systems interact and behave at different concentrations of the alkaloids, at a microscopic scale.

Thank everyone for the great additions. This is very thought-provoking to say the least.
 
^ Here's some more fascinating information regarding endogenous beta carbolines...


"On A Possible Psychophysiology of the Yogic Chakra System"
by Dr. Serena Roney-Dougal

NSFW:
The Psychic Chakra: Pinoline

There is a large body of neurochemical and anthropological evidence which suggests that the pineal gland may produce a neuro-modulator that enhances a psi-conducive state of consciousness. An abstract of this research was presented at the Parapsychological Association Convention in 1985 (Roney - Dougal, 1986 ). For full details of this research please see Roney-Dougal (1988, 1989, 1990, 1991, 1993 ). In brief, the pineal gland has been found to synthesise various beta-carbolines and peptides, and to contain enzymes that produce psychoactive compounds such as 5-methoxy dimethyltryptamine (5MeODMT) �The two precursors that are most likely to be involved in the synthesis of such compounds are serotonin (5-hydroxytryptamine, 5HT) and tryptamine� (Strassman, 1990 ). These have wide-ranging effects throughout our brain and body, affecting the gonads, adrenals, pancreas, thyroid, and other emotional and endocrine activities.

Of most interest here are the neuromodulators called beta-carbolines which are MAO inhibitors that prevent, amongst other effects, the breakdown of serotonin. This results in an accumulation of physiologically active amines within the neuronal synapses which may lead to hallucinations, depression or mania depending on the amines being affected (Strassman, 1990 ). Beta-carbolines are also found in the retina of the eyes, in the adrenal glands and in the gut. The pineal contains the greatest concentration of serotonin in the brain, this being accentuated in those who suffer from psychoses. The pineal also contains enzymes that inhibit synthesis of these compounds, thus suggesting a regulating mechanism within this gland. There is a suggestion that it is the action of the pineal beta-carbolines, in particular 6-Methoxytetrahydro-betacarboline (6MeOTHBC, now being called pinoline), on serotonin that triggers dreaming (Callaway, 1988 ). Spontaneous case collection studies (e.g. Rhine, 1969 ) have found that most (more than 60% ) spontaneous psi experiences occur during the sleeping and dreaming state of consciousness, which suggests that the dream state is a state of consciousness wherebey we are most likely to have psi expereinces, and pinoline is suggested to be the neurochemical that triggers this particular state of consiousness.

Further, there is now a considerable body of research into the action of serotonin and melatonin in relation to psychiatric disorders such as manic-depression (Halaris, 1987 ) and schizophrenia (Miles & Philbrick, 1988 ). "At a psychopharmacological level, carbolines are central nervous system inhibitors via the gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA, a neurotransmitter) system. This action is similar to that of benzodiazepines, (e.g. diazepam or "Valium"), which relieve anxiety, have anticonvulsant action, are hypnotic and muscle relaxants and are used for all these CNS pharmacological actions. Thus pinoline may also act as a physiological tranquilliser and hypnotic, and the latter effect would be in keeping with the nocturnal secretion pattern of pineal activity."

Anthropological data also suggest that these beta-carbolines are psi-conducive because their chemical structure is very similar to a naturally occurring group of chemicals called harmala alkaloids which occur in an Amazonian vine, Banisteriopsis caapi, used by Amazonian tribes for psychic purposes (Roney - Dougal, 1986 & 1989 ). The Amazon has a huge variety of psychotropic plants, yet all the tribes throughout that vast area use this same vine mixed with Psychotria viridis (Nai kawa) which contains dimethyltryptamine (DMT) (Ott, 1993 & 1994 ), for healing, out-of-body experiences, clairvoyance and precognition. It is traditionally used only when psi experiences are desired, though nowadays it is also used for general initiatory purposes. Thus the tribal people make a mixture of harmala alkaloids and DMT which mimics the tryptamine-pinoline mixture ascribed to the night time output of the pineal gland. My speculation is that when the pineal gland is stimulated to produce pinoline we are more likely to enter an altered state of consciousness which is psi-conducive.

In the 1960's a Chilean psychotherapist, Claudio Naranjo (1973, 1978 ) used a variety of hallucinogens including harmaline (one of the harmala alkaloids) in the psychotherapeutic setting, and came to the conclusion that: "Harmaline may be said to be more hallucinogenic than mescaline . . . both in terms of the number of images reported and their realistic quality. In fact some subjects felt that certain scenes which they saw had really happened and that they had been as disembodied witnesses of them in a different time and place. This matches the experience of South American shamans." (Naranjo, 1967). Ott (1993 ) considers that the harmala alkaloids are not actually hallucinogenic in their own right but that they permit the DMT in the ayahuasca mixture to be absorbed into the blood stream so that these create the entheogenic effects. This is still a matter of debate. There is extensive evidence from many anthropologists which suggests that the Banisteriopsis vine together with Psychotria Viridis is a psi-conducive drug, particularly with regard to remote viewing, clairvoyance and precognition but so far there has been no experimental test of these claims (Kensinger, 1973 ). Ayahuasca has recently been investigated by Don et al (1996 ) who suggest that its action is consistent with their other research into brain function and psi experience.

Thus, the anthropological evidence suggests that harmala alkaloids mixed with DMT stimulate a psi-conducive state of consciousness; the neurochemical evidence suggests that the harmala alkaloids are an analogue of pinoline which is produced in the pineal gland, noting that in the comparison between the action of the harmala alkaloids and pinoline it must be remembered that a one-position change in methoxy grouping can be profound in its action. The Yogic and occult teachings and common folk lore all say that the pineal gland is the psychic centre and I suggest that the pinoline made by the pineal gland at night time, through its action on serotonin, stimulates a dream type state of consciousness which is psi-conducive.

http://www.psi-researchcentre.co.uk/article_2.html


This is also pretty interesting, although I don't know how accurate it is.

"EROS & THE PINEAL: The Layman's Guide to Cerebral Solitaire"
by Albert Most

NSFW:


Editor's note: Some have thought the title misleading, since there is not obviously much in this essay concerning sexual love. It is concerned with ways of influencing experience by influencing the metabolic activity of the pineal gland. Better than sex? Maybe that depends on how old you are.

IMPORTANT CONSIDERATIONS

Much of our current knowledge about biogenic amines stems from ongoing investigations into the biological basis of mental illness. Various disorders of amine metabolism have long been implicated in the etiology of schizophrenia. In your quest for a fuller understanding, be aware of the dangers associated with manipulations of amine metabolism. Realize that even a small dose of tryptophan — if added to an existing amine imbalance — could cause a serious disturbance of indole metabolism. Furthermore, realize that MAO inhibitors can evoke recurrences and exacerbations of the psychosis of schizophrenic persons.

On the other hand, notice that there is no substantial evidence that a combination of l-tryptophan and an MAO inhibitor can induce a permanent psychosis in normal, healthy, nonpsychotic humans. Yet.

Albert Most

Ponder, Texas

Winter 1983

to a future generation of

Classic Textbook Cases

Neither the author, illustrator, nor publisher assumes any liability for the application of the information contained in this pamphlet. It is presented solely to further the quest for a fuller understanding of the human experience.

Revised Edition

Spring 1986

PART ONE

THE PINEAL

Located almost in the center of your brain is a small projection of tissue called the pineal gland. It is shaped like a tiny pine cone, roughly a quarter of an inch long, and weighs about a tenth of a gram. Despite its small size, the pineal gland contains enormous amounts of serotonin, a physiologically active biogenic amine and chemical neurotransmitter. But pineal cells are not neurons and do not use serotonin for neurotransmission. Instead, pineal serotonin functions as a substrate for the enzymatic production of other biologically active molecules.

Nevertheless, the pineal gland is intimately related to the broad network of neurons that do release serotonin as a chemical messenger, An estimated several thousand of these serotonergic neurons are in the human brain. Their cell bodies are located almost exclusively in the midbrain, the pons and the medula oblongata. Some of their axons descend to ennervate the gray matter of the spinal cord; others ascend to the brain and terminate in the thalamus, limbic forebrain, and hypothalamus. Related by a common biogenic amine, the pineal gland and the serotonergic neurons play an important role in the regulation of mood, behavior and consciousness.

EROS?

A unique biochemical mechanism exists within the human pineal gland. A pair of naturally occuring pineal enzymes, hydroxy-indole-O-methyl transferase (HIOMT) and indole-N-methyl transferase (INMT), are capable of converting serotonin into a number of potent hallucinogens. Regulated by a variety of neuroendocrine mechanisms, these enzymes normally act on specific substrates and function as catalysts in the formation of biogenic amines. However, if they get out of phase with their normal substrates and act on pineal serotonin, they form potent psychoactive compounds within the human brain.

Interestingly enough, pineal catabolism can be intentionally shifted toward the production of these endogenous hallucinogens by a simple manipulation of amine metabolism. If you increase the concentration of pineal serotonin and block its normal enzymatic inactivation, it becomes a substrate for other pineal enzymes, like HIOMT and INMT. As their names imply, HIOMT and INMT are methyl transferase enzymes. They catalyze the transfer of a methyl group from one compound to another. As these enzymes add methyl groups to the indole-oxygen and amino-nitrogen positions, serotonin is converted into 5-methoxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine, a relatively unknown but extremely potent hallucinogen.

PART TWO

THE BLOOD-BRAIN BARRIER

Before attempting any manipulation of biogenic amines in the human nervous system it is essential to have a thorough understanding of the blood-brain barrier (BBB). The BBB is a selective barrier, which isolates the brain from substances circulating in the bloodstream. When blood composition fluctuates, the BBB functions as a protective insulator and attempts to maintain a relatively constant internal environment for neural cells, The BBB is basically a barrier to the diffusion of molecules between the bloodstream and brain tissue. Existing at capillary levels this barrier can be understood by examining the capillary junctions and the nature of lipids and proteins within the cell membrane.

CELL MEMBRANE

Another important factor in the barrier to diffusion is the nature of the endothelial cell membrane. The membrane consists of phospholipid molecules (lipids) and specialized proteins. The lipids form the structural framework of the membrane and an anchoring structure for the various protein molecules.

LIPIDS

Each lipid molecule has a polar head and two non-polar tails. The polarity in the head results from the molecular interaction between the oppositely charged phosphate and nitrogen groups. The resulting dipole makes this part of of the molecule polar and, therefore, water soluble. It is called the hydrophilic, or water-loving, portion of the lipid molecule. In contrast, the two tails of each lipid molecule are non-polar and water insoluble. They are composed of long-chain fatty acids which are hydrophobic, or water-hating, in nature. The tails are joined to a backbone molecule which, in turn, is attached to the polar head.

Because they each contain a hydrophilic and hydrophobic end, lipid molecules naturally form a bilayered membrane. The polar, water-soluble heads point toward the water on the inside and outside of the cell, while the non-polar, fatty-acid tails point away from water and toward the membrane interior. The resulting bilayer of lipid molecules contains an oily inner core, It functions as a selective barrier permeable to lipid-soluble substances and impermeable to polar, water-soluble substances.

CAPILLARY JUNCTIONS

One important factor in the BBB is the tightness of junctions between the cells of the brain capillaries. Throughout the body, capillaries are composed of endothelial cells — a single layer thick — which form a thin membrane between the bloodstream and the surrounding tissue. In the general capillaries of the body, the cells circle upon themselves but leave small gaps between adjacent cells. Water-soluble substances can easily diffuse through these gaps into the surrounding tissue.

In the brain capillaries, however, the endothelial cells circle upon themselves and form a barrier to diffusion. Adjoining edges are overlapped and fused, creating extremely tight junctions between cells. Substances that might easily diffuse through the gaps in general capillaries are blocked by the close connections between brain endothelial cells. The first factor, the tightness of these junctions, not only prevents intracellular diffusion but creates an extended cell membrane along the length of the brain capillaries.

PROTEINS

Various proteins are also associated with the membrane. They may support either the inner or the outer surface. They may be contained partially within one of the surfaces, or they may extend completely through the lipid bilayer. Some of these proteins are highly specialized molecules that capture specific substances from the bloodstream and transport them through the lipid barrier. Those proteins that extend through the membrane may actually transport substances through pores within themselves. Other proteins may combine with a substance at one membrane surface, diffuse across the lipid bilayer, and dissociate from the substance at the other surface.

AMINO ACID CARRIER PROTEINS

Different protein molecules transport different substances necessary for normal brain function (amino acids, sugars, salts). Each of the amino acid carrier molecules has specificity for either basic, acidic, or neutral amino acids and is also selective toward the size of the molecule — clearly differentiating between large and small amino acids. For example, one type of carrier protein recognizes, captures and transports only the large neutral amino acids, tryptophan, leucine, isoleucine, valine, tyrosine, and phenylalanine — all large neutral amino acids — compete for this carrier. Transport is proportional to blood concentration. If one amino acid is proportionally higher in concentration it is preferentially transported through the membrane.

PART THREE

A SIMPLE MANIPULATION

Attempting to increase the amount of serotonin in the human nervous system might initially seem to require a supply of serotonin. How simple it would be if brain concentrations could be increased just by the ingestion of pharmaceutical serotonin or, for that matter, any of the many foods which contain serotonin. Unfortunately, this is not the case. Brain levels are not increased by dietary supplements; blood levels are elevated, but the BBB effectively blocks the diffusion of serotonin into brain tissue.

In the bloodstream, at physiological PHI the serotonin molecule exists in the ionized form. An electrical charge from the hydroxy group on the indole ring creates polarity in the molecule. As a result, serotonin has poor lipid solubility; it is more soluble in water than in oils or lipids. It can neither dissolve in nor diffuse through the lipid bilayer of the BBB and has no specific carrier molecule. Therefore, dietary serotonin can neither leave the bloodstream nor enter brain tissue.

TRYPTOPHAN

Cerebral serotonin is normally synthesized from l-tryptophan, its necessary precursor. Tryptophan is an essential amino acid. That is, it cannot be synthesized in the human body, it must be obtained from ingested protein or amino acid supplement. Unlike serotonin, dietary tryptophan can penetrate the BBB and enter brain tissue.

The process begins with digestion. Dietary tryptophan is absorbed into the bloodstream, where most of it circulates bound to albumin, a plasma protein. Tryptophan is unique; it is the only amino acid that binds to plasma proteins, The other large neutral amino acids are completely unbound.Valine, leucine, isoleucine, tyrosine, and phenylalanine all circulate in free form within the bloodstream. But most tryptophan is bound. Only 10 percent circulates unbound in a free form and, naturally, only free, unbound tryptophan is able to leave the bloodstream. At the BBB the unbound tryptophan competes with the other large neutral amino acids for the specialized carrier molecules that transport these amino acids into the brain. Transport is proportional to blood concentration, Therefore, the amount of tryptophan that penetrates the BBB is ultimately determined by the ratio between free, unbound tryptophan and competing amino acids.

TRYPTOPHAN LOADING

The ratio between tryptophan and the other large neutral amino acids is easy to manipulate. Dietary supplements of l-tryptophan are available over the counter at any pharmacy. Ingestion of several grams increases the amount of bloodstream tryptophan without raising the levels of competing amino acids. However, most of this supplemented tryptophan binds to blood serum proteins. Only 20 percent circulates in the free, unbound form. And, since only the unbound form is able to penetrate the BBB, the proportion of free-to-bound tryptophan becomes quite important.

Interestingly enough, both the ratio of tryptophan to competing amino acids and the proportion of free-to-bound tryptophan can be manipulated by the ingestion of a candy bar. Carbohydrate consumption stimulates the release of insulin from the pancreas. Insulin, in turn, lowers the plasma concentration of glucose and simultaneously enhances the uptake of branched-chain amino acids into muscle. These are the same amino acids which normally compete with tryptophan for transport through the BBB. As their blood concentration decreases, tryptophan continues to circulate in both the free and bound form. But insulin affects this equilibrium as well and releases tryptophan from its binding sites and the albumin molecules. Free, unbound tryptophan increases in concentration, achieves the competitive advantage at the BBB, and is preferentially transported through the endothelial cell membrane by carrier proteins.

SYNTHESIS OF SEROTONIN

After penetrating the BBB, tryptophan is taken up by the paraneuron cells of the pineal as well as the neurons of the serotoneoic pathway. Once inside, tryptophan diffuses to intracellular sites rich in the metabolic enzymes which convert it into serotonin.

The conversion is a two step process. In the first step, an enzyme called tryptophan-5-hydroxylase adds a hydroxyl group to the 5 position on the indole ring. Then a second enzyme called aromatic amino acid decarboxylase removes the carboxyl group from the amino acid side chain. The product, 5-hydroxytryptamine, is commonly called serotonin.

Increased amounts of serotonin are noticeable in brain tissue within two to three hours after the ingestion of a candy bar and a couple of grams of l-tryptophan. Employing a simple manipulation of blood chemistry, this method circumvents the BBB and increases the concentration of serotonin in the human nervous system.

MONOAMINE OXIDASE (MAO)

Normally the major pathway in the catabolism of serotonin involves inactivation by the mitochondrial enzyme monoamine oxidase (MAO). In a process called oxidative deamination, MAO converts as much as 80 percent of the body's serotonin into a physiologically inactive metabolite. As serotonin binds to the enzyme's active sites MAO removes the amine function and renders the molecule harmless and ineffective.

MAO is an important catabolic enzyme in the human body. It is the major enzyme involved in the breakdown and inactivation of serotonin. Any drug that interferes with the function of this enzyme is, by definition, an MAO inhibitor.

MAO INHIBITORS

MAO inhibitors can be classified by long-term or short-term inhibition. The long-term MAO inhibitors bind irreversibly to the enzyme and therefore, exert their effects long after the drug is cleared from the body. New MAO protein must be synthesized in the cell body in order to terminate the inhibition. This usually requires a period of ten to twenty days. [This irreversible MAO inhibition was presumably the biochemical basis of the McKenna brothers' 3-week psychedelic voyage in the Amazon in 1971, as described in True Hallucinations. — Ed.] In contrast, a short-term MAO inhibitor is reversible on the order of three to six hours. The harmala alkaloids, harmine and harmaline, for example, are especially potent, short-term MAO inhibitors. A small oral dose (25-50 milligrams) temporarily prevents physiologically active amines, like serotonin, from binding to the active site of the MAO molecule and undergoing deamination. For three to six hours, the harmala alkaloids interfere with the function of MAO before their action is reversed and MAO activity restored.

ENDOGENOUS HALLUCINOGENS

A combination of l-tryptophan and a short-term MAO inhibitor creates a favorable condition for the formation of psychoactive tryptamines within the human pineal gland. Tryptophan loading produces a significant increase in brain tryptophan levels and a subsequent increase in serotonin levels. When its major inactivation pathway is blocked by MAO inhibition, serotonin becomes a substrate for other pineal enzymes. Two methyltransferase enzymes, HIOMT and INMT, are capable of converting excess serotonin into a number of psychoactive derivatives.

HIOMT, localized exclusively within the pineal gland, specifically catalyses the transfer of a methyl group to the oxygen located at the five position an the indole ring. In other words, HIOMT converts a 5-hydroxy-indole into a 5-methoxy-indole. This enzyme converts serotonin, 5-hydroxytryptamine, into a psychoactive compound called 5-methoxytryptamine. In turn, this compound becomes a substrate for INMT, another pineal methyltransferase enzyme.

INMT specifically catalyses the transfer of methyl groups (one at a time) to the amine nitrogen on an indole side chain. The resulting monomethyl intermediate, 5-methoxy-N-methyltryptamine, is also psychoactive, but it is quickly converted to the dimethyl derivative by INMT. The final molecule — endogenously produced in the human pineal gland — is 5-methoxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine, a relatively unknown but extremely potent hallucinogen.

http://www.serendipity.li/dmt/eros.html
 
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Eros and the Pineal said:
A combination of l-tryptophan and a short-term MAO inhibitor creates a favorable condition for the formation of psychoactive tryptamines within the human pineal gland. Tryptophan loading produces a significant increase in brain tryptophan levels and a subsequent increase in serotonin levels. When its major inactivation pathway is blocked by MAO inhibition, serotonin becomes a substrate for other pineal enzymes. Two methyltransferase enzymes, HIOMT and INMT, are capable of converting excess serotonin into a number of psychoactive derivatives.

...This is what I've been saying for quite some time... I've been getting natural DMT trips from 5-htp + harmal for awhile now, also 5-htp+amitriptyline (got trip right in the name ;)), nortriptyline (a little less effective), and st johns wort (more euphoric and much less visual, somewhat like MDMA). 5-htp+DXM was a very bad trip though, and 5-htp+SSRI (sertraline, fluoxetine) combos are less euphoric and completely not visual. Note though this can cause serotonin syndrome and caution is a must! 5-htp is roughly 29 times more potent than L-tryptophan.
 
Really mulberryman? I have heard of this combination but never had significant effects from supplementation. I'll have to give this a shot next time I have some extracts available.

It sounds like that quote was pure speculation, though I see what they are saying. What I'd like to know is, which psychoactive derivatives would be possible with the existing enzymes / metabolic pathways.
 
To my knowledge tryptophan is a much better precursor for n,n, DMT than 5-HTP, although 5-HTP may be a better precursor for other endogenous psychoactive tryptamines.


This may help shed some light.

Pinoline:the link between dreams, psychosis, psychedelics and the shamanic state of consciousness
by Dr. Serena Roney-Dougal

NSFW:

A tryptoline is a beta-carboline and these are competitive inhibitors of serotonergic uptake, and of the degradative enzyme MAO (Elliott & Holman, 1977). This means 5HT does not degrade properly or get taken up properly which leads it to form compounds such as DMT which is a potent hallucinogen. Naturally occurring beta-carbolines such as pinoline show psychotropic and physiological effects in mammals (Klinker et al, 1997). Pinoline (6methoxy-1,2,3,4-tetrahydro-beta-carboline) is a naturally occurring compound in the mammalian body (Pahkla et al, 1997).

Pinoline has its highest concentrations in the pineal and has been reported to fluctuate in phase with melatonin (Kari, 1981; Kari et al, 1983). It is exceptionally active in that it can potentiate the activity of 5HT by both inhibiting its presynaptic reuptake and by inhibiting its metabolism by blocking MAO-A. Both of these are used as treatment modalities for depression. (Marcusson & Ross, 1990/2?) Pinoline has also been shown to behave like a hormone (Airaksinen et al 1984) and specific binding sites for pinoline exist in the adrenals as well as the pineal and the brain. Pinoline is probably made from 5HT either via 6-HO-THBC and HIOMT, or via melatonin, 5-MeOT and cyclization (Callaway, 1994). Pinoline is found in the arcuate nucleus, retina and pineal gland (Kari et al, 1983) It has been shown to be an effective benzodiazepine receptor ligand, associated with ethanol dependence, and binds to opiate receptors.

Several people have suggested that the beta-carbolines may play some sort of role in psychosis since they have hallucinogenic effects, but concentrations of pinoline in blood serum and CSF are identical in schizophrenics and controls. Both show a wide range between people, some having 16 times as much as others, and the levels do not correlate with such variables as age, sex, subtype of schizophrenia or duration of illness (Rimon et al, 1984).

Verheij et al (1997) compared plasma levels of the beta-carboline norharman ( a harmala alkaloid), concentration of platelet 5-HT, trait measures of anxiety, and measures of coping and defense mechanisms for patients with panic disorder. Platelet 5-HT concentration was positively correlated with the subjectively reported anxiety. Plasma norharman concentration was negatively correlated with defense mechanisms and positively correlated with coping strategies. It was concluded that norharman might reflect intrapsychic and coping processes.
The key factor here concerning pinoline function is that it is chemically almost identical with the harmala alkaloids found in a psychotropic drink, called ayahuasca, used by Amazonian peoples for the purpose of out-of-body experiences, clairvoyance, divination and shamanic healing. In those tribes that have shamans the shaman uses the ayahuasca specifically for connecting with their spirit guide for psychic purposes. The primary function of harmala alkaloids in ayahuasca is to allow for the oral activity of DMT by inhibition of MAO-A, and further permits accumulation of 5-HT and other neurotransmitters. On their own harmala alkaloids have only weak psychoactive effects (Callaway, 1994) but Kim et al (1997) found that the harmala alkaloids which occur in ayahuasca were the most effective inhibitors of purified MAO-A. The psychedelic effects of ayahuasca probably manifest primarily through the serotonergic effects of DMT on the CNS and through increased levels of unmetabolised biogenic amines. Pinoline potentiates the activity of methylated tryptamines and this is the probable mechanism behind ayahuasca (Callaway, 1994) .

Investigation of long term users of ayahuasca showed a statistically significant difference between control group and users with a higher binding density in blood platelets of 5-HT uptake sites in the ayahuasca drinkers. No other pharmacological agent is known to significantly alter values of Bmax binding density, though the density of 5-HT uptake sites may vary considerably from one individual to another. Therefore it is likely that other parameters of the serotonergic system are analogously affected. This indicates a modulatory role for pinoline (the endogenous equivalent of ayahuasca) in the CNS. An upregulation of the serotonergic system is exactly what current antidepressant medications attempt to do, i.e. increasing synaptic 5-HT by preventing its reuptake.

The possibility remains that long term users of ayahuasca may find relief through the tea for inherently high densities of 5-HT uptake sites and that this condition allows them to better tolerate the serotonergic effects of this mixture. In this case ayahuasca can be seen as a form of self-medication for depressive psychological problems. Thus it is possible that ayahuasca may be useful in the treatment of affective disorders (Callaway, 1994).

Betacarbolines are produced from biogenic tryptamines. The search for endogenous THBCs as biochemical explanations for mental illness began in the early 1960s as an extension of the transmethylation hypothesis for schizophrenia (Osmond & Smythies, 1952). Pinoline has been shown to bind to sites in the interpeduncular nucleus. The interpeduncular nucleus, a small area in the basal mid-brain, and its connection to the habenula are essential for REM sleep. When these connections are cut in rat brain, REM disappears or decreases dramatically.
It has been suggested that mental states of hallucinatory psychosis, psychedelic drugs and dreams all share common features. Callaway suggests that psychoactive tryptamine derivatives in the CNS of mammals play a role in the manifestations of visual and emotive phenomena during normal dream sleep. The endogenous activity of these rapidly metabolised methylated tryptamines is suggested to be promoted through the regular and periodic inhibition of MAO-A by endogenous betacarbolines. The hypothesis is extended to include psychoses by suggesting that hallucinatory psychotic episodes may result from a desychronised dream mechanism, where the individual essentially dreams while awake (Callaway, 1994) .

http://www.psi-researchcentre.co.uk/article_1.html


and also:

Tryptamines, Beta-carbolines and You
by JC Callaway

NSFW:
Tryptamines and beta-carbolines are two classes of psychoactive indoles found in plants and animals (1). They have been implicated in a host of neurological functions and display a wide range of neurological activity, which is dependent on their molecular configurations (2). A subgroup of (beta)-carbolines found in some plants are known as the harmala alkaloids; e.g. harmaline in Peganum harmala or Banisteriopsis caapi. Some beta-carbolines have been detected in the tissues and fluids of mammals, including humans, where they are thought to be produced from endogenous tryptamines such as serotonin, 5-methoxy-tryptamine and tryptamine itself. Psychoactive methylated tryptamines such as dimethyltryptamine (DMT), 5-methoxy-dimethyltryptamine (5-MeO-DMT) and 5-hydroxy-dimethyltryptamine (bufotenine) and have been detected in normal human beings as well (3,4,5), though their biological purpose remains a mystery.

The psychoactive indoles are interesting not only for their exogenously induced effects on the human mind, but also for their natural occurrence in humans. In the early 1950's, Osmond and Smythies, in their transmethylation hypothesis, proposed endogenous 'schizotoxins' to be responsible for the symptoms characteristic of hallucinatory psychoses, and initiated an era of search for the chemical basis of undesirable states of mind (6). This search was later confounded by the fact that these substances were also found in otherwise normal humans, in addition to many of the other animals in the scientific barnyard. At that time, the psychedelics were commonly referred to as 'psychotomimetics' and 'models for psychosis', and it was difficult to rationalize a normal function for an endogenous psychedelic. Unfortunately, the idea of normal dreaming did not occur to the early pioneers as a possible function for the natural occurrence of endogenous psychedelic substances (7,8 ).

The Tryptamines Serotonin, melatonin, bufotenine, DMT, 5-MeO-DMT, and tryptamine are well known examples of this group. They primarily originate from tryptophan, an essential amino acid obtained through the diet. All of these tryptamines interact within the central nervous system. DMT is a very potent psychedelic chemical when smoked or injected, but is orally inactive. The onset of its effects are known to be extremely fast, brief and intense. One could say that DMT evokes a transient psychedelic test pattern, exploding with color imagery. 5-MeO-DMT shares similar properties, but is often devoid of visual imagery at effective doses. Its effects have been described as primarily emotive. Bufotenine shares similar properties with these two, especially in terms of a fast onset and short duration of intense action. However, at effective doses, any psychoactivity of interest is essentially lost in the physiological noise it elicits through the serotonergic system. Early reports on the effects of bufotenine in humans clearly indicate its psychoactivity (9 ), though its polar quality apparently hinders significant passage into the brain. Perhaps the psychoactivity of bufotenine is actually due to its enzymatic conversion to 5-MeO-DMT.

Their Activity The concurrent use of methylated tryptamines with beta-carbolines has been employed by indigenous peoples of the Amazon since prehistoric times. The psychoactivity of these indole alkaloids can be attributed to their similarity to biogenic amines produced in the brain on a regular basis.

Monoamine oxidase type A (MAO-A) is an enzyme which normally inactivates tryptamines, though it can be chemically blocked to prevent their destruction and thus facilitate their activity. Some of the older antidepressant drugs work this way. In general, though with some reservations, beta-carbolines will inhibit this enzyme. Another mechanism of tryptamine inactivation, particularly for serotonin, is by reuptake into pre-synaptic vesicles. Newer classes of antidepressants act by blocking this uptake, and neuronal activity is facilitated by preventing the retreat of excess serotonin, and probably other tryptamines, into the pre-synaptic neuron for storage and recycling. Certain endogenous beta-carbolines can also inhibit this (re)uptake of the serotonin (10). These two routes, MAO metabolism or (re)uptake into pre-synaptic vesicles, account for most of the inactivation of endogenous tryptamines, and some endogenous beta-carbolines can inhibit both pathways. Pinoline (6-methoxytetrahydro-beta-carboline) and tetrahydro-beta-carboline are good examples of this, and both have been shown to possess specific binding sites in the pineal, adrenals and specific areas of the brain (11).

Applications

The beta-carbolines can also facilitate the neuronal transmission of exogenous tryptamines. In Ayahuasca, for example, harmaline and other beta-carbolines are extracted from species of Banisteriopsis to promote the activity of DMT (obtained from other plant sources). Harmaline chemically blocks MAO for several hours and thereby allows DMT to become orally active.

Harmaline, like other harmala alkaloids, does not seem to possess classical psychedelic activity (that activity similar to LSD, psilocybin/psilocin or mescaline). Even at high doses (5 mg/kg), the best one can expect from harmaline would be intense nausea, diarrhea, nystagmus and perhaps the sound of rushing water. A 0.5-1.0 mg/kg dose of harmaline (orally) is sufficient to block MAO for 4-6 hours without much of the physiological noise encountered at the higher doses. During this time, one can take DMT (0.5 mg/kg) or 5-MeO-DMT (0.1 mg/kg) orally to induce an interesting psychedelic state which is similar, but qualitatively different, from smoking either of the two tryptamines alone. Smoking DMT or 5-MeO-DMT after ingesting only harmaline yields a similar, yet distinctly different, state which lasts a little longer and provides more volitional control within the smoking experience.

Conclusions

Since these same Psychoactive tryptamines occur in humans, it is possible that their activity may be promoted by the actions of endogenous beta-carbolines for normal psychological processes; e.g. the production of visual / emotive imagery in sleep. The periodic altering of consciousness in sleep may even be necessary for the maintenance of normal mental health, since only a few days of sleep deprivation will result in a seepage of hallucinatory phenomena into the waking state. On a similar line of reasoning, an offset dreaming mechanism may explain some aspects of hallucinatory psychoses. The willful induction of a psychedelic state presents us with another option which is probably an extension of an intrinsic desire, at least in some, to know. Such an experience offers a unique glimpse of the soul as a temporary dream-like state. Thus it seems quite normal that some choose to induce such a state for the purpose of examining the psyche within the frame work of a waking state of mind.

A Note of Caution

It is not the intent of this author to encourage others to ingest psychoactive substances, but to provide accurate information for those who may. The combination of MAO inhibitors with psychoactive substances other than tryptamines should be avoided. Tryptamines have other routes of metabolism, though many phenethylamines (e.g. MDMA) are highly dependant on MAO for their metabolism, and its inhibition may result in life threatening situations. Foods containing tyramine should also be avoided in conjunction with MAO inhibitors. Be aware! Acknowledgements The experimental data and subjective information reported in this article was obtained through informal interviews. Thanks to these individuals who provided this information of their private experiences. No funding was requested or required for this type of study.

http://www.maps.org/news-letters/v04n2/04230cal.html
 
^^Interesting

..I must admit though that the M.hostilis extracts do make for much more potent combos ;) 8o
 
Would naltrexone interact negatively with MAOI's?
 
^ Great question!

My first instinct was to say no, although I remember reading that MAOIs DO in fact interact with opiates...

I'd love to hear an educated answer on this...
 
Contraindications
Naltrexone should Not be used for people with an allergy to this medication.

Interactions with Drugs and Other Substances
Drugs or substances that may interact with naltrexone include:

1. Haldol – there is one instance of a vision problem associated with taking both Haldol and naltrexone.
2. Narcotics and any medications containing opiods (e.g. morphine or Demerol (meperidine) – naltrexone will suppress the painkilling and euphoric effects of narcotics, though not the mental impairment associated with narcotic use.

http://www.whatmeds.com/meds/naltrexone.html

No mention of MAOI interactions, if there was the possibility of interactions it would probably be on the label like it is with many other drugs (like antidepressants). Even if there were interactions with pharmaceutical-strength MAOIs, it may not be applicable to harmala alkaloids.
 
Does anyone have any positive experiments with isuffalating HCL? Pls share, as SWIM bought 98% bag, and doesn't know if he needs a base, or can he just snort it from the bag?

Please advise, and thanx for taking the time to share your knowledge. peace
 
As said, SWIM is against the rules.

Thanks for searching instead of opening a new thread. We aren't trying to be rude. Its just that you're not going to get answers different than those given to the question asked 5 years ago. There is no point in snorting MAOIs. Whatever "high" they give you is not worth the risk of shutting down one of your body's natural defences.
 
morninggloryseed said:
Harmine is an MAOI, with little to no psychoactivity (that means it won't get you high). Why are you intending to experiment with harmine hcl, and why on earth are you intending to snort it?

^+1
 
Thanx djfriendly and Jamshyd. That's all I was asking. I'm new to this whole ethnobotany culture, just tryna reconnect w/ Mother earth is all.

I'm with a number of forums, some demand you use swim, some don't. i'm not in the habit of checking forum rules everytime I get on. It's just that there's a way to put things without sounding so damned nasty. But thanx for your assistance.
 
Oh, the answer to "why do i want to experiment w/harmine hcl" is: as aforementioned, i'm a virgin to this culture. came here cause i was feeling a pull to get back to meditating and studies (Rosicrucian, AMORC).

I admittedly like to sniff, but am trying to find an alternative to coke. So in my studies... I think over the past 72 hrs, 48 of them have been spent in different forums, erowid, etc..

I found that the Kanna and HCL are supposed to be the best for insuffalation (stimulants), so that's why I was inquiring about HCL. But if it's not going to give any type of effect like coke does, ther's no reason for me to indulge.

Hopefully the kanna I have on the way will suffice. Just tryna save my marriage and my health guys. Thanx in advance for any help you can give this neophyte.
 
kori64, if you have synthetic harmaline HCl it is indeed possible to insufflate it.

My findings on this route is, it's fine, just fine. The synthetic stuff doesn't really burn at all. The only issue here is, that when you dose orally, if you take to much you throw up. It's not possible to throw up your sinus cavities so ODing via. this route would be bad.

As for small lines / bumps to stay awake / stimulate thought processes, it is OK, and actually may be more efficient as it's not going through the gut and getting caught up with inhibiting MAO there.

One other note, snorting it for prolonged periods may cause runny nose, yes, turkish red dye drip from your nostrils WILL stain clothes.
 
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