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Phenethylamines Why Mescaline Is Not Found On the Black Market

morninggloryseed said:
Ismene I'm not a chemist but I have known a couple in my day, and DMT and mescaline are not any more complicated to make than any of the other oddballs on the market like escaline.
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It's not really how complicated to make them tho is it - if that was the case you could buy a gram of DMT for 10 bucks. Obviously, a gram of DMT will be pushing 15 times that price.

It's simply the time, effort and lack of customers willing to pay 150 bucks a gram that means it isn't done.

babylonboy said:
For a trained chemist with a well-stocked lab operating on the right side of the law, any of these things are easy to knock up.
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You miss the point that they arn't easy to SELL. Which is the only reason a trained chemist would put his liberty at risk and bother making them.
 
Insanity is trying the same thing expecting different results. Why do I take the bait?

Ismene, go back and read http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads...ack-Market?p=12112789&viewfull=1#post12112789

Then call me a liar, and we will take it from there. ;)

Or (re)read the above post in combination with this one http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads...ack-Market?p=12113706&viewfull=1#post12113706 and be a man, concede you are out of league in this argument and we can move on.

No matter what.....yer sources sound pricy! I think the going rate for simple N,N-alkylated tryptamines is not $150 USD but I would be breaking source rules and such. Simple 3,4,5-PEAs are certainly not $150/gram where I see 'em.


Ismene said:
It's simply the time, effort and lack of customers willing to pay 150 bucks a gram that means it isn't done.



You miss the point that they arn't easy to SELL. Which is the only reason a trained chemist would put his liberty at risk and bother making them.
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Also, you are right.....$150/gram mescaline is expensive and I would not pay it, retail cost is always a balance of cost to produce vs demand, etc. WHat do you base the $150/gram on? On the other hand, I never would have dreamed I'd pay $200 for a gram of ibogaine but I was not in a place mentally and physically to extract it, and it cost what it cost.

Ismene said:
Not as easy to find as drain cleaner and white spirits tho. Nastier to handle too. Get some white spirits on your hands and nothing happens, get some hydrochloric acid on them and you'll never play the guitar again.
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Ismene has clearly never worked with lye or concrete cleaner solution (what is it, 10% at most) and is speaking out of his booty. The stuff sold to clean your concrete can be dangerous but you can spill it on your flesh and it doesn't eat it off, you are thinking of a movie. Fuck I will admit being very careless with pure caustic soda/water back in the STB days and even that doesn't burn your hand (another movie)....but for sure you want to pour the soda into the water slowly! No glass containers you fool. Heh, oh the memories.

Finally if you are in the USA you can buy all of that in the same store my friend. Lowes and Home Depot are an alkaloid lover's friend.
 
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Ismene has definitely, definitely performed many DMT extractions with lye, let's not start uttering untruths. He does seem to be a bit stubborn, but thats Issy, isn't it?
I use nothing but glass ever myself, never had a problem.
He's not in the USA, but the UK, things are a little bit more difficult here. France is a different story- went to a supermarket, and they just had a shelf of NaOH, HCl, methanol, naphtha, 10% ammonia... truly, it was a garden of eden.
You miss the point that they arn't easy to SELL. Which is the only reason a trained chemist would put his liberty at risk and bother making them.
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Well, I was actually responding to mgs's point about the difficulty not being in the chemistry, which is relatively facile. Having said that- I imagine this hypothetical person with all the resources in the world can probably find buyers, too. Is there not obviously a market for synthetic mescaline and DMT? I reckon one of the West Coast families or some New Age Travellers would have those right off you.
 
babylonboy said:
Ismene has definitely, definitely performed many DMT extractions with lye.
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Sorry Ismene for misunderstanding your lye experience. I did misread your post, you actually were saying the heptane is sweet for the hands, and the hcl will burn em. But the rest of what he has put in this thread, it just as presumptuous as my post (and inaccurate) regarding cost of manufacture, difficulty, etc...though I see he in a recent post conceded the synths were not any more difficult than the other things on market like MiPT, escaline, etc. I'm pretty confident I am correct, but I am not a chemist and when one comes here and shows me I will have no problem saying....

Foot in my mouth, egg on my face, etc

PS, I have always enjoyed Ismene's posts that is why I said I didn't want to bite, but some caffeine and outrage related to nothing here, and I bit.

Much love and kisses and all that. :)
 
Ismene said:
You miss the point that they arn't easy to SELL. Which is the only reason a trained chemist would put his liberty at risk and bother making them.
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QFT. People want stimulants, opiates, downers, pot, empathogens. Who the fuck wants to buy mescaline or dmt on a regular basis? Those who do are usually broke lol.
 
I have no issue copping Mesc or DMT. Like another poster said; gotta be in the right circle. THE FAMILY :-D
 
Ismene said:
Not as easy to find as drain cleaner and white spirits tho. Nastier to handle too. Get some white spirits on your hands and nothing happens, get some hydrochloric acid on them and you'll never play the guitar again.
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Hydrochloric acid isn't that dangerous if you take precautions
If you spill some on your hands and wash it under cold water for 20 minutes right away you shouldn't have more than a rash, maybe a slight burn
 
morninggloryseed said:
Why do I take the bait?
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Do we have anything better to do? :D

WHat do you base the $150/gram on?

DMT has always been that price a gram in the UK. Seeing as it's an order of magnitude more expensive buying cactus than it is mimosa, and extracting mescaline is trickier (sorry babylonboy) why would it be cheaper?

The stuff sold to clean your concrete

I think what we have here is failure to communicate. You're in the US, I'm in the UK. I remember going round every hardware store in the district trying to find any kind of hydrochloric acid - it simply doesn't exist. Now that's a few years ago and maybe things have changed but nope, in the UK you're gonna have trouble locating HCL. You can't walk into B&Q and walk out with a tub of hydrochloric acid. I've tried.

Even trying to find toluene etc for a mescaline extraction is next to impossible. Naptha doesn't work for mescaline extractions if memory serves?

pure caustic soda/water back in the STB days and even that doesn't burn your hand

I dunno, it sure made a job of eating through an aluminium pressure cooker I put it in in once. There was smoke coming off it and it left a big hole. Reminded me of the blood from the Alien movies. I wouldn't want it on my hand for too long.

Finally if you are in the USA you can buy all of that in the same store my friend

Unfortunately not mgs. Things are a bit more backward here.
 
Rather than arguing the toss about whether it's possible or not, is there anyone who has actually ordered mescaline from one of the guys on TOR? Was it any good?
 
Arguing/debating is so much more fun! PS in my recent posts I was specifically referring to synthetic mescaline...let us make that clear. That was the whole crux of our debate I thought...the fact that producing a batch of mescaline is no more difficult than producing a batch of escaline.

But to really throw you off and say I actually do have a US based source for (cacti based) mescaline. It is expensive as hell, I would never order it.
 
There is an extraction recipe for mescaline that uses limonene, which is way less nasty to work with than toluene. I've done it once and it's not much more difficult than the various DMT recipes I've tried.

And yeah, if (meth)allylescaline, proscaline, escaline, etc. are floating around on the gray market, then surely somebody out there is synthing actual mescaline.
 
Well, that's not entirely true. It's available, just rare.

You're right in saying that it's like a game of telephone; the messages get messed up. More likely than mescaline being in your pills is any DOx, MDA, 2C-P, LSD, etc.

And it's funny how accurate your pricing is, for a gram of synthesized mescaline, I can get it for $150. So damn expensive that I haven't even tried it yet...
 
In my area mescaline extracts are actually rather common place, simply due to the availability of San Pedro and Peruvian Torch in the US. I've even seen the needle like crystals, but those were from a family members head stash, and was obviously not for sale.

What I'm more interested in, is why after extraction the 'producer' doesn't attempt to precipitate crystals or make the extract much more potent per volume. It's not very hard, as far as the chemistry is concerned, most of the work is getting the lab grade glassware to do such procedures.
 
^The chemistry of separating mescaline from a host of similar alkaloids is much, much, much more challenging than producing a crystalline extract of all the amines present in the cactus.

Needle-like crystals aren't hard, either, that's just the kind of crystal the sulfate salt forms. I never really saw the point of working back from the hydrochloride to the sulfate in order to produce a less potent, albeit prettier, compound.
 
babylonboy said:
Needle-like crystals aren't hard, either, that's just the kind of crystal the sulfate salt forms. I never really saw the point of working back from the hydrochloride to the sulfate in order to produce a less potent, albeit prettier, compound.
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Sulfate is certainly about looks. No other reason considering the extras steps.
 
well wouldn't it be more spiritual or at least entheogenic to have like a total alkaloid extract of like San Pedro or Peruvians than lets say, 100% pure synthetic grade mescaline.

I mean it seems to me that at least especially with ayahuasca the more pure your experience is the less of a character it seems to have, or a earthy feel. The rawer the ayahuasca, i.e eating the roots like a cave man, vs extracting it and going about it the pharmahuasca way. While they are both insanely heavenly, i feel that the Pharma way lacks almost an entire dimension that you would have otherwise experienced if you just scarfed the roots.

But eating the roots or the cactus or whatever plant you want to consume is pretty nasty to taste and to the guts.
Which is kind of why i prefer total alkaloid extractions.
 
^ many mescaline producing cacti contain other active psychedelic compounds, the extract is bound to be much different than lab grade mescaline hcl or phosphate.
 
Never had mescaline/peyote, although always wanted to and was always on the look out for them...never heard a fucking peep about 'em...at least mushrooms are VERY prevalent where I live...
 
Thanatos said:
^ many mescaline producing cacti contain other active psychedelic compounds, the extract is bound to be much different than lab grade mescaline hcl or phosphate.
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Peyote does - that has about 65 other alkaloids, how many of them are active I'm not sure. My guess is not many. San pedro only has about 6 other alkaloids than mescaline.

zn13bt said:
And yeah, if (meth)allylescaline, proscaline, escaline, etc. are floating around on the gray market, then surely somebody out there is synthing actual mescaline.
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No, that doesn't follow. Proscaline is legal, mescaline isn't. A chinese lab can make proscaline all day long with no problem, if they make mescaline they will be dragged out of the lab, shot by a firing squad and their corpses used for medical research. Big difference.

phantomcosmonaut said:
And it's funny how accurate your pricing is, for a gram of synthesized mescaline, I can get it for $150. So damn expensive that I haven't even tried it yet...
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Yeah, in the days before TOR there were "secret" invitation only websites where you'd see it advertised for stratospheric prices. Even among very keen psychedelic enthusiasts there were very, very few takers. In fact I can't remember anyone ever buying it.
 
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