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Phenethylamines Why Mescaline Is Not Found On the Black Market

Ismene said:
A lot of reasons. It isn't mass produced like LSD or other research chemicals. It's kinda why you don't find many people selling mushrooms either - too much work and not enough profit.

Have you seen what DMT costs a gram? Mescaline is going to cost at least double that - probably more like 5 to 10 times. Most dealers arn't going to find many people willing to pay hundreds of bucks for a trip. They will find plenty willing to pay 2 bucks for some acid. That's the kind of price differential we're talking. You can ignore all the kids who say "Dude, I got me a grip of mescaline for 20 bucks".
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You have a point there, and if you said that some of the mescaline going around is fake I'd agree with you. But some vendors focus on providing the rarer things to people that want them and aren't stupid enough to be fooled by a random chemical being sold as mescaline. I really don't think that all of those are scams. Now of course unless I buy some and have it tested this is all speculation.....
 
So let me think here, and this is just doing some rough math.
Mescaline occurs in Panachoi and Peruvians in quantities varying from 0.330% - 2.
the average mean of that would then be like 1.3%

15 Pounds of Cactus Skins costs 980 dollars
1.3% of 15 pounds is roughly 89 grams.

Now with the amount of work you would have to put into it and for the xylene and the water and what have you.
We're not looking at over 1100 dollars for 89 Grams. I don't think that is too far outside of the realm of acknowledgement.
 
A 1.3% yield is more than I ever saw, around 0.8% would be more realistic IME. Solvents aren't expensive, you recycle them anyway, nor are NaOH or HCl. The price you quote for cactus is also significantly below what I would pay, though I am in Europe and so understandably it's pricier here. At any rate, all I can speak of is my own experience, and for me, getting maybe 6g or a quarter ounce of mescaline from a kilo, let's say that I'd want more for my time, expertise, risk, and investment than most people are willing to pay.
 
babylonboy said:
Yeah, I know of vendors that sell 2,5-DMB and 3,4,5-TMB as well, but the point I was making was that in the '60s, you could just buy any chemical you wanted, effectively, as a private citizen, without anyone batting an eyelid. Not only is this not the case any longer, but most BLers don't live in Canada or China, and I think that significant quantities of ring-methoxylated benzaldehydes are the kind of things to arouse suspicion at customs.
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Yes, okay.

But the precursors for LSD were commercially available in the 60'ies too, which they aren't today, still there's plenty of real LSD around. I think it makes that line of thought kind of moot.

My point is, 3,4,5-TMB is out there. That canadian RC vendor must be getting his stuff from somewere too, right? So precursors aren't really the problem, neither is the synth. Nor the market, which is clearly there, and which is easy to reach via the web. Sure there's customs, but depending were you live that might be a larger or smaller problem, and no one is talking about kilogram productions here anyway, I wasn't.
Why you talk about BL's in Canada or China I don't get? Black market tor sites and the people who vend there are a worldwide scene.

Also, if need be, I don't see why a kilo of 3,4,5-TMB couldn't make it's way from, say Canada, to Europe. Or any other place for that matter. There's litterarily tons of cocaine crossing the ocean from Venezuala to Spain every month.

And then there's always vanillin............isn't there.

But never mind, I don't care about this debate. You guys can believe what you want. And I'm not saying synthetic mescaline isn't rare, it still is. But you can find it online if you look the right places. It's expensive, but not forbiddingly so.
 
I was gonna stay out but I'll bite. Synthetic mescaline HAS been available in recent years online, I haven't seen it in 5 years but I haven't looked for it. Synthetic psilocin and DMT have also been available online.

You can buy slaves online, you can also buy mescaline. When I wrote this in 2001, there were maybe 3 'vendors' in existance and their lot was limited to a few choice PEA synths, and then whatever commercial tryptamines they could get from Sigma, etc.

Times have changed.

Statements about not being able to buy mescaline from yer 'dealer' are still going to be mostly accurate. Nobody who makes a small custom synth, or extracts mescaline, is going to sell it to strangers. Anyone that cool (and/or sophisticated) has plenty of good friends, right? Come on we are all in a circle here! :)
 
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Ismene said:
A lot of reasons. It isn't mass produced like LSD or other research chemicals. It's kinda why you don't find many people selling mushrooms either - too much work and not enough profit.

Have you seen what DMT costs a gram? Mescaline is going to cost at least double that - probably more like 5 to 10 times. Most dealers arn't going to find many people willing to pay hundreds of bucks for a trip. They will find plenty willing to pay 2 bucks for some acid. That's the kind of price differential we're talking. You can ignore all the kids who say "Dude, I got me a grip of mescaline for 20 bucks".
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DMT can be extracted for around 10 euros per gram including all the equipment. Same goes for a small scale synthesis in an industrialized country (cheaper in 3rd world), but more equipment is needed. Mescaline isn't that much more expensive.
 
crOOk said:
DMT can be extracted for around 10 euros per gram including all the equipment.
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No crook, I said "costs" meaning to buy, not the cost of extracting it. To buy a gram you are talking at least 10 times "10 euros". Probably more like 15 times. And DMT is a damn sight easier to extract than mescaline. A 10 year old could extract DMT.

Psychonautical said:
Now with the amount of work you would have to put into it and for the xylene and the water and what have you.
We're not looking at over 1100 dollars for 89 Grams. I don't think that is too far outside of the realm of acknowledgement.
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What it costs to make isn't really relevant to the price you sell it for tho. You can make a kilo of coke in the jungle for 10 bucks but you can't buy a kilo of coke for 10 bucks.

Drug dealers are notoriously lazy and greedy (no offence intended). To get one slogging his guts out for hours, manipulating cactus snot, handling cancer-causing chemicals like toluene, having his house reek of chemicals for days on end, buying glassware and chemical equipment. I'm afraid he's going to want a fucking fortune in return. That's just how life is.

The problem is, it's also a very, very small market. He could sell Ecstasy and double his money inside an hour standing outside the local high school. He's not going to sell too much mescaline at £200 a hit to the same schoolkids.

It simply isn't feasible and it isn't gonna happen. Sure, a friend might hit you up, but the idea that you've got guys selling mescaline for 20 bucks a pop is just silly. Unless of course it's some bullshit research chemical - then you can sell as much "mescaline" as you want.
 
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Yeah you've claimed this before. Would you care to elaborate? How can you extract mescaline easier than adding sodium hydroxide and white spirit to mimosa to extract the DMT?
 
I find freeze-precips or evaporations of NP to be messy, fiddly, and inelegant. I usually have trouble getting rid of all the solvent, and being left with nice, clean crystal. Mescaline, on the other hand, I can just bang in some hydrochloric acid to the solvent, freeze the lot, pour the solvent back in to the cactus/base mix, and let the ice melt, then evaporate, leaving luvverly mescaline hydrochloride behind. I know you've struggled to get the phases to separate, all I can say is that, IME, heat+base+time heals all wounds.
 
Sounds an awful lot more complicated than extracting DMT.

Extracting DMT:

1) Put mimosa, drain cleaner and white spirit in pot.
2) Stir
3) Suck off top layer and freeze.

You're telling me that's harder than extracting mescaline?

Just getting hold of and handling hydrochloric acid is more complex than extracting DMT. And getting hold of cactus is a lot more expensive than getting hold of mimosa at least in the UK.
 
Hydrochloric acid can be found almost anywhere either labelled as muriatic acid or driveway cleaner
 
Not as easy to find as drain cleaner and white spirits tho. Nastier to handle too. Get some white spirits on your hands and nothing happens, get some hydrochloric acid on them and you'll never play the guitar again.
 
Only as dodgy to handle or as hard to acquire as NaOH. As I say, I can only speak from experience.
 
Ismene I'm not a chemist but I have known a couple in my day, and DMT and mescaline are not any more complicated to make than any of the other oddballs on the market like escaline, AL, or MiPT, DiPT, etc. And all things equal regarding scale of the lab, and price of precursors, etc...neither are *that* pricy to manufacture either.
 
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For a trained chemist with a well-stocked lab operating on the right side of the law, any of these things are easy to knock up.
 
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