Which "Rare" Psychedelics Do You Want To Try?

[white55]

Mmda is the one with the brain movies right? Sounds interesting especially since I can already get them if I concentrate hard enough sober, but they are very dim and almost black and white. I imagine that with some help they could be much brighter and more colourful.

brb diging out my copy of PiHKAL (don't have TiHKAL unfortunately and someone needs to write LiHKAL (lysergamides I...), DiHKAL (dissociatives..) and BiHKALAF (benzos I have known and loved and forgotten ), for the last two you could probably start with compiling old pharma research... various pharma companies must have tons of unpublished material about both classes lying around in their archives add the published stuff too and you'd get two huge books, copy right be damned) and looking for weird psychedelics

 

[Kaden_Nite]

I experienced the 'mind movie' thing the first time I had MDMA, I'd had psilocybe truffles earlier in the evening which probably contributed. I closed my eyes and saw this girl dancing in a field of swirling technicolour. She threw paint at me and I snapped out of it, checking my clothing for signs of paint damage, having become totally immersed in this mirage.


Then I spent the next 5 minutes laughing hysterically. I think it was the first time I ever really hallucinated. It was more than just pseudo-hallucination, eyelid cinematics that I get from closing my eyes on mushrooms and dissociatives. More like the hypnagogic illusions I'd have while falling asleep the first few times I tried opioids, only not as dark or sinister - much more fun.


Ever since, I've found the idea of an MDxx compound known for producing CEVs to have a certain allure to it

 

[g0to]

Mmda is the one with the brain movies right? Sounds interesting especially since I can already get them if I concentrate hard enough sober, but they are very dim and almost black and white. I imagine that with some help they could be much brighter and more colourful.

brb diging out my copy of PiHKAL (don't have TiHKAL unfortunately and someone needs to write LiHKAL (lysergamides I...), DiHKAL (dissociatives..) and BiHKALAF (benzos I have known and loved and forgotten ), for the last two you could probably start with compiling old pharma research... various pharma companies must have tons of unpublished material about both classes lying around in their archives add the published stuff too and you'd get two huge books, copy right be damned) and looking for weird psychedelics

Mhm, MMDA was the one reported to have the closed eye visuals/mind movies I believe. It's Schedule I in the USA however ... so pretty hard to get. I've heard good things about MMDA-2 as well, its unscheduled *digs out PiHKAL as well*

http://isomerdesign.com/PiHKAL/read.php?domain=pk&id=133

At the bottom he comments about the Tweetio homolog, i.e. EDMA-2, and about 1/3 the potency of MMDA-2, but again he comments on the good visuals and euphoria. Very very interesting.

 

[Xorkoth]

Mmda is the one with the brain movies right? Sounds interesting especially since I can already get them if I concentrate hard enough sober, but they are very dim and almost black and white. I imagine that with some help they could be much brighter and more colourful.

brb diging out my copy of PiHKAL (don't have TiHKAL unfortunately and someone needs to write LiHKAL (lysergamides I...), DiHKAL (dissociatives..) and BiHKALAF (benzos I have known and loved and forgotten ), for the last two you could probably start with compiling old pharma research... various pharma companies must have tons of unpublished material about both classes lying around in their archives add the published stuff too and you'd get two huge books, copy right be damned) and looking for weird psychedelics

Actually TiHKAL has lysergamides in it, though lysergamides could be expanded greatly (though probably the reason they haven't as much is because of how difficult/expensive they are to make). But DiHKAL, yes. Shulgin tried DXM apparently, if I recall correctly, and decided he didn't like dissociatives though.

 

[white55]

I know it has, but since it's publication dozens more have been made and tested and there are still many more possibilities. And yeah it would be an expensive undertaking for sure + it's not like you'd get funding from an organisation big enough (government, big pharma, ...) to be able to afford it to make and test novel lysergamides and then publish a book with the effects + synths in it. Not to mention doing it legally... even if novel lysergamides are completely legal in countries without analogue laws I'm sure most governments would not look too kindly on you basically making a guide on how to synthesise new lysergamides and which ones are worth the effort. And you'd have to make them without using/making anything illegal or controlled in the process (or get some government to allow you to do it).

Compiling old pharma research on dissociatives and benzos seems much easier in comparison.

 

[pharmakos]

4-thiomescaline

still never tried 4-AcO-DMT, which isn't even rare, but a much more reasonable one to add to my bucket list.

 

[g0to]

Yeah 4-AcO-DMT is a very very nice one. I believe there is a simple, kitchen chemistry way to get it to form ~99% 4-ho-dmt (psilocin) for small doses (if one wants to compare differences between psilacetin, pure psilocin, and traditional magic mushrooms).

For the tryptamine lovers, and if you enjoy MDA/the more entheogenic 2c's like 2c-t-2, the one I recommend is 4-HO-MIPT HCl. The fumarate is good too, but I believe it requires a slightly higher dose and is much more prone to degradation. 4-HO-MIPT HCl visuals are simply breathtaking on a sunny day, they are technologically-centered and very electric yet smooth and not so much flowing/orbing as much as just everything becomes WAY brighter and happy and bubbly, almost like a benign MDA with a shorter duration and no comedown. Very very good social, empathogen and entheogenic compound, good for both nature walks and parties/raves (even indoor raves become amazinger on it, it really does come out of its shell no matter the setting as long as it is a positive one - its possibly my favorite 4-subbed tryptamine, and perhaps my favorite psychedelic period.

 

[Xorkoth]

Agreed, 4-HO-MiPT is quite empathogenic in my experience. I get the greatest euphoria from it of any 4-substituted tryptamine. It's quite a social trip and I always take it with friends, and we end up laughing so much our faces hurt the next day and having countless great conversations.

 

[MSK]

Yeah 4-AcO-DMT is a very very nice one. I believe there is a simple, kitchen chemistry way to get it to form ~99% 4-ho-dmt (psilocin) for small doses (if one wants to compare differences between psilacetin, pure psilocin, and traditional magic mushrooms).

For the tryptamine lovers, and if you enjoy MDA/the more entheogenic 2c's like 2c-t-2, the one I recommend is 4-HO-MIPT HCl. The fumarate is good too, but I believe it requires a slightly higher dose and is much more prone to degradation. 4-HO-MIPT HCl visuals are simply breathtaking on a sunny day, they are technologically-centered and very electric yet smooth and not so much flowing/orbing as much as just everything becomes WAY brighter and happy and bubbly, almost like a benign MDA with a shorter duration and no comedown. Very very good social, empathogen and entheogenic compound, good for both nature walks and parties/raves (even indoor raves become amazinger on it, it really does come out of its shell no matter the setting as long as it is a positive one - its possibly my favorite 4-subbed tryptamine, and perhaps my favorite psychedelic period.

I sticked to 4-AcO-DMT and 4-HO-MET after trying some other obscure 4-sub tryptamines and finding them interesting but with a lower value than my beloved ones.

Never got to try 4-HO-MiPT though, when you say it's empathogenic, do you really mean ala 2C-B/MDMA? Because I really hate empathogens, I'm not a very social person, kinda sociopath, so whenever a drug tries to force me artificially to be nice with other people, be less egocentric and more humble, I identify that as a threat for my ego and try to control the high, and that usually leads to a bad trip. That's the reason I don't take MDMA anymore since 7 years. I could be on 5 hits of LSD and some dissociative in a rave, losing myself into my inner world, without any problem. But I couldn't stand a 100mg MDMA dose on that same rave without having a bad reaction.

 

[Xorkoth]

It's not empathogenic like MDMA or something, but maybe similar to 2C-B. That is, there is no forcing about it, but the euphoria and good humor it produces are conducive to socializing and sharing.

 

[MSK]

It's not empathogenic like MDMA or something, but maybe similar to 2C-B. That is, there is no forcing about it, but the euphoria and good humor it produces are conducive to socializing and sharing.

Nice, I hope the body load is more tryptamine-like than 2C-X-like, I can't stand 2C's right now because of the stimulation they provide and the shitty psychedelic headspace in comparision with tryptamines or lysergamides. The only phenetylamine I can tolerate nowadays is DOC, and just because both the headspace and visuals compensate a lot the stimulation (And because it has got a really special place in my heart)

I should say that I was playing with the idea of buying some 4-HO-MiPT since some months ago just because I read you commenting about how you love it so much times here Knowing about your love for DOC and 3-MeO-PCP, your opinion is of high value for me, so maybe this next month I'll pick up some.

 

[Toltec]

2c-ef

 

[Kaleida]

I sticked to 4-AcO-DMT and 4-HO-MET after trying some other obscure 4-sub tryptamines and finding them interesting but with a lower value than my beloved ones.

Did you ever try 4-HO-MPT? That one is the only tryptamine that for me is better than both of those so far.

 

[MSK]

Did you ever try 4-HO-MPT? That one is the only tryptamine that for me is better than both of those so far.

Tryptamines I Have Known and Loved in order of appearance: 4-aco-dmt, 4-ho-met, 5-meo-dipt, 5-meo-mipt, dmt, dipt, 5-meo-dmt, 4-aco-met, 4-aco-det.

I found no desire to continue my investigation after the 4-aco-det, it gave me such a bad body load with tremors and spasms the few times I tried it, that I went back to my beloved 4-ho-met.

What is in your opinion the thing that makes 4-ho-mpt stand over my favourite ones?

 

[white55]

None of the so called emphatogenic psychedelics (2c-b (quite nice although 2c-c is the best of the halogenated 2c-x as far as I'm concerned, too bad it's really weak and quite expensive for a proper dose), 2c-b-an (got that for free, pretty similar to 2c-b imo), 2c-b-fly (a bit expensive and not visual enough for me, but with a tab of eth-lad it was quite nice), bk-2c-b (total garbage if you ask me... just too unpredictable), 5-meo-mipt (okish but I don't really like the body load I get from 5-meo trypts)) were/are anywhere close real emphatogens for me. In fact if we are playing this game I'd say 5-apb + 6-apb is closer to being a psychedelic.

 

[MSK]

xDDDD well, playing that game, I find MDMA at high doses to be more psychedelic to me than any real psychedelic. I remember some crazy OEV and delusions, like cigarrettes dwindling and enlarging, or smoke coming out of the floor.

But yeah, I didn't tried any psychedelic that could be classified as emphatogenic. I would say 2C-B is entactogen, not emphatogen.

I know both entactogen and emphatogen are interchangable words with esentially the same meaning, but I think of an empathogen as something that is able to give empathy, and an entactogen as something that is able to give heightened tactile senses.

2C-B for sure is a tactile experience, but my empathy stays intact on it.

 

[Kaleida]

Tryptamines I Have Known and Loved in order of appearance: 4-aco-dmt, 4-ho-met, 5-meo-dipt, 5-meo-mipt, dmt, dipt, 5-meo-dmt, 4-aco-met, 4-aco-det.

I found no desire to continue my investigation after the 4-aco-det, it gave me such a bad body load with tremors and spasms the few times I tried it, that I went back to my beloved 4-ho-met.

What is in your opinion the thing that makes 4-ho-mpt stand over my favourite ones?

That's a pretty good list, I'm jealous that you've gotten to try 5-MeO-DMT and 5-MeO-DiPT! The first one especially, the second at least for the novelty. I think I can understand your perspective though. If there are any that I would still recommend trying even given that you feel satisfied with them in general, it would be the 4-substituted ones that have methyls in them, and maybe the base ones too if you really like DMT. So, pretty much at least 4-HO-MiPT and 4-HO-MPT like is being discussed here. If you like 4-AcO-DMT and 4-HO-MET I'm sure you'd at least find both interesting, I personally feel that there is sort of a unique magic binding this specific structural group of psychedelics together. Even with the mild effects I've gotten so far with 4-HO-McPT I could already feel it forming.

About the body load with tremors, I'll just say that the experience has been incredibly variable with me from one trip to the next. 20 mg of 4-HO-MET will give me tremors, then 25 mg won't, then 35 mg will, then 50 mg won't. I've found similar results with other 4-substituted tryptamines as well. I will admit though that probably the worst tremors I ever got from them were from my first time on 4-HO-DET, so perhaps that family does stand out a bit. Nonetheless, I have gotten body loads almost as strong at one time or another from almost all of them, so I would take that information and honestly also your own past and future experiences with a grain of salt. I think there's possibly something more complicated than we think going on there, and I'll also say that the more tryptamines I take the fewer tremors I get, and I also have gotten to a point where the ones I do get don't bother me in the slightest anymore.

Anyway, 4-HO-MPT.... For me, 4-HO-MPT has the DMT-like geometric visuals and breakthrough potential of 4-AcO-DMT and mushrooms, the imagery, stimulation, and hedonism of 4-HO-MET, and the ego dissolution and rebirth, confidence, and visionary hallucinations of LSD. Not all of these qualities may present at once at lower doses, but it just seems variable, like I noticed more 4-AcO-DMT-like qualities with 20 mg and more 4-HO-MET-like qualities with 25 mg, whereas 50 mg was the most like LSD, but also had all of them strongly at that point. The headspace was very much like a compressed LSD trip, with the really mentally heavy first few hours compressed into like 45 minutes and then followed by seven hours of euphoric re-emergence from the heavy ego loss, which was much less mental still than LSD itself. The open eye geometric visuals were much like LSD as well, tons of beautiful neon gear fractals and super long and numerous tracers, at times nearly blinding, and there were smiling faces and growing tropical vines everywhere much like 25 mg of 4-HO-MET, and music brought them out more. With closed eyes or in a dark room there were two distinct effects going on: first, LSD-like images of people busily moving around distant landscapes began to unfold, and then they blended with highly bejeweled fractal tunnel imagery like on DMT. A white light burst out from the center of my vision and started creating a heavily stacked feeling to the visions as well. The euphoria was incredible at that point as well, my body felt like it was about to buzz out of existence and I had tons of energy. Doing a balloon of nitrous oxide at the peak gave me a spontaneous orgasm, and also increased the adrenaline-like stimulation to the point that my vision went grayscaled, and when I came out of it I laughed even more than 4-HO-MET has ever made me. Afterwards I went to look in the mirror and saw TV celebrities looking back at me more than I saw myself. The whole thing was just insane and wonderful, and honestly didn't even feel like it was quite at "full" yet still. I need to back for the breakthrough one of these days....

Essentially, what it comes down to is that I like it because, though I would never call these psychedelics interchangeable, I find that it feels very much like if 4-HO-MET is the recreational version, 4-HO-MPT is the full-blown version. For me, 4-HO-MET is like a half step away from mushrooms and 4-AcO-DMT and a half step towards LSD with a touch of its own flavor, and 4-HO-MPT is like 4-HO-MET, flavor and all, but a half step back towards mushrooms and 4-AcO-DMT and a half step further towards LSD. It's the real deal.

Of course, that is for me anyway.... It could be totally worthless for you. I just thought I'd ask.

 

[MSK]

I'm sold, I'm putting some money on new 4-subs right now xP

After reading some of your reports on erowid I definetly want to try them I'm kinda curious about MET as well!

 

[Kaleida]

Haha, I hope you have a blast with them. :D I'm glad you found my reports useful too. I will say too that, though I interestingly don't seem to get visuals nearly as strong on 4-HO-MiPT as a lot of people until the dose is quite high, I can also vouch for it being a great empathogenic tryptamine. I was meeting new people the first time I ever took it and we connected effortlessly, and it was just so easy and refreshing and fun. It makes me feel much less inwardly focused than most tryptamines do, and it has kind of this extra lush vibe to it that I've so far only found otherwise in MiPT (another great one). I'm sad to say that I only have enough to take it one or two times myself, it's gonna have to be something really worth it!

MET seems like a pretty interesting one too. I recently added a secondhand trip report from a family member to the Big & Dandy thread, I'd recommend checking it out if you haven't seen it. I thought it sounded really promising and it's definitely got me excited for more.

cj187 also made this interesting contribution to the social tripping thread recently:

I've tried MPT a few times and more recently tried MET for the first time. My experiences with them seem to match your comparisons of the 4-HO versions. MPT has a mystical quality and feels every bit as natural as DMT. MET, while similar to MPT, feels a bit hollow and synthetic in comparison. MPT has a rich, complex color palate and produces paisley patterns and grids and fractals. MET seems to emphasize primary colors, and the patterns I got from it were just squiggles. I really need to try a higher dose of MET before I can form an opinion of it, but my first impression of it is that it isn't as complex or deep as MPT. I like them both though.

It seems like these kinds of relationships may not apply to just the 4-substituted tryptamines... maybe. I'm definitely excited to start exploring MPT myself too and see if it holds up. Luckily that one is no longer rare for me, until very recently it would have been a part of my list for this thread!

 

[g0to]

The 4-HO-MIPT body load has, for me, not had any of the stereotypic 5-meo-mipt or god forbid 5-meo-dipt bodyload associated with it. Even 4-AcO-DIPT (acetate? fumarate? I don't remember), when I had it once at 35mg, was much more mentally jarring and time-disrupting than 4-HO-MIPT HCl, of which my doses were around 25-40mg respectively.