Opioids The Ultimate Opiate Potentiation Thread v2.0

[adder]

almost all opiates are "pro-drugs" in some sense of the word. Morphine to 3MAM, Oxymorphone to Noroxymorphone, Heroin to 6-MAM and Morphine, etc...

Alright but firstly morphine acts on opioid receptors with a good affinity itself so it's a good analgesic on its own while e.g. codeine while preserving some very little affinity is useless itself and needs metabolism to be effective as a medication.

And secondly I wouldn't put metabolism of morphine to morphine-3-glucuronide (I think you meant that and not 3-MAM) as a good outcome of morphine intake, this compound is inactive as an opioid and it's a convulsant. If you meant 3-MAM as a metabolite of heroin, it's also an example of a metabolite that brings little to nothing to overall feeling of drug intake.

Maybe calling e.g. codeine a prodrug is wrong? It definitely has an affinity to opioid receptors (Ki = 600nM but still) although it's very little. Prodrug is supposed to be an inactive compound that is metabolized to an active metabolite.8)

 

[NeighborhoodThreat]

you can get tagament at cvs and walgreens. I've seen it at every single one around here.

It's certainly available OTC in the U.S. Other places aren't so lucky.

I find it interesting that codeine is OTC in Aus. but you have to go behind the counter to get Tagamet.

 

[muvolution]

Alright but firstly morphine acts on opioid receptors with a good affinity itself so it's a good analgesic on its own while e.g. codeine while preserving some very little affinity is useless itself and needs metabolism to be effective as a medication.

And secondly I wouldn't put metabolism of morphine to morphine-3-glucuronide (I think you meant that and not 3-MAM) as a good outcome of morphine intake, this compound is inactive as an opioid and it's a convulsant. If you meant 3-MAM as a metabolite of heroin, it's also an example of a metabolite that brings little to nothing to overall feeling of drug intake.

Maybe calling e.g. codeine a prodrug is wrong? It definitely has an affinity to opioid receptors (Ki = 600nM but still) although it's very little. Prodrug is supposed to be an inactive compound that is metabolized to an active metabolite.8)

no, I would say codeine is a pro-drug, but what do you call a drug whos metabolites are stronger than the drug itself?
as far as Heroin and 6-MAM, I'm pretty sure that the high amounts of 6 MAM found in Mexican "Tar" could be responsible for the effects. I'm not an experienced H user though, so I can't comment.

This is an interesting discussion. What would you say about the argument of before vs. after in regards to potentiating or prolonging the opiate experience.

It doesn't seem to me that you can do both:
Either you wait for some to be metabolized then dump the enzyme blockers in or you do it in advance and the drug metabolizes slowly and lasts longer.

 

[adder]

no, I would say codeine is a pro-drug, but what do you call a drug whos metabolites are stronger than the drug itself?

I simply don't do that. It's starting to be a phylosophical discussion and I'm totally towards exact sciences. Let prodrugs be prodrugs, maybe nomenclature isn't perfect but it's understandable. Codeine and heroin are prodrugs because they wouldn't exert any action taken if they didn't undergo metabolism. Morphine can do good on its own although it has metabolites with high affinity for opioid receptors.

What would you say about the argument of before vs. after in regards to potentiating or prolonging the opiate experience.

There's no argument here for me. Most opioids have relatively short half-life and their effects don't last for long. Drugs used for potentiating their effects fall into a few groups I'm too lazy to name now (enzyme blockers, enzyme activators, drugs getting in synergy etc.), anyway, they mostly work longer than opioids abused. So it's clear for me I take 1st generation antihistamines before some drug I want to take, and if it's orally, then earlier before ingestion than if it were intravenously.

Taking orally antihistamines with central anticholinergic action during opioid action will only work if it's a long-lasting opioid like methadone, esters of methadols (actually only those with 6S,3S config that is α-(-) because the rest either doesn't exert any activity or has shorter action, however 6R,3R-LAAM has ED50 value over 5 times lower than 6S,3S-LAAM but it's short-acting, anyway the overall analgesic effect may be more to metabolites as nor-LAAMs and dinor-LAAMS are more active than parent compounds, w/e...), buprenorphine, 17,18-didehydrobuprenorphine, levorphanol, levomethorphan... If one takes such a long-acting drug, one can dose some drug getting into synergy later. And surely the overall action is longer but definitely changed.

Although - like I many times wrote - I liked smoking A. belladonna dried leaves after injecting morphine or some similar drug but with both drugs (morphine from vials i.v.'ed straight to bloodstream, smoke from leaves with atropine and scopolamine to lungs then to blood) I omitted stomach. So by omitting stomach. So dosing something omitting stomach (swallow > stomach > slow and gradual absorption through membrane in stomach > blood > nervous system <= oh my God...) gives some time advantage.

I know what I take (or rather what I have to take anyway) and if I want to make it stronger I also know what to take. I've quit it, I'm on methadone for which I pay quite a lot and it's not enough still... I went through my hell, I think of shooting M, I know it'd help me a whole lot better because how much methadone I take is a ridiculously small amount compared to my needs. Both things cost, I'm losing my life either way so what's the damned difference? What should I do looking at some kid's post "what should I take so my oxy works better?". Laugh, cry, don't give a shit? I guess the last one is the right option.

 

[muvolution]

I gotcha man, I'm on bupe now but occasionally use tramadol since it's the only opiate I can use anymore (Ha, and I used to slam 50mg of Oxymorph at a day). So I like to get the most out of it, and I think everyone can understand that.

You can not give a shit, but your post shows you do, otherwise you wouldn't care about helping some kid so he doesn't take too much APAP or screw up in some other way.
I'm certainly not arguing or trying to get in a philosophical debate, but via oral methods, I still ask:

What would you say about the argument of before vs. after in regards to potentiating or prolonging the opiate experience.

It doesn't seem to me that you can do both:
Either you wait for some to be metabolized then dump the enzyme blockers in or you do it in advance and the drug metabolizes slowly and lasts longer.

 

[Regenesis2]

I once had a real shitty experience trying to potentiate. I only took 10mgs Hydrocodone and 50mgs of Hydroxyzine and it really sucked bad. The Hydroxyzine had me wired out of my gourd and didn't feel any good effects from the HydroC. I also couldn't shit for about 5 days afterward.

 

[adder]

I once had a real shitty experience trying to potentiate. I only took 10mgs Hydrocodone and 50mgs of Hydroxyzine and it really sucked bad. The Hydroxyzine had me wired out of my gourd and didn't feel any good effects from the HydroC. I also couldn't shit for about 5 days afterward.

Wrong ratio, 10mg of hydrocodone isn't much, it's actually in the range of doses used for analgesia. So here 50mg hydroxyzine overpowers hydrocodone although I never liked hydroxyzine, it never worked for me under 100mg, and I would always get strange nightmares after taking it (I dreamed of dreaming of waking up and realizing I'm still dreaming and being unable to wake up).

You can not give a shit, but your post shows you do, otherwise you wouldn't care about helping some kid so he doesn't take too much APAP or screw up in some other way.

Sure I do give advice here and there on the board, no one can stop people getting into addiction and it doesn't matter what the substance is. It's a struggle with the windmills. But I find myself in some way a bit disconnected from the whole society of people who still use various opioids i.v. If I read all threads here on how someone gets high off heroin/morphine/hydromorphone/whatever, it'd be even harder for me to stay just on methadone. I suffer from surges of desire to shoot up without it. Life is terribly painful for me and not because I'm an addict but I am so I know what would help me best even if it would only for a few hours. Sometimes it's that bad, I wake up in the middle of night all sweaty after some nightmare where it all comes back to me when I'm asleep.

I feel for all those kids getting addicted to some real shit drugs that have showed up lately and keep showing up. But hey, do they listen? "F*ck off, I feel great when I take it and I won't stop" is a resultant of what you can hear when you "preach". So I will always passively support any moves for banning substances like BZP, TFMPP, and many more. It's something more than just people coming to this board and everyone's got his/her mind to decide what's good for them. If nobody asks for help, I don't pry. I have my own problems to solve, and if I don't solve them, I'm no use for both myself and other people.

What would you say about the argument of before vs. after in regards to potentiating or prolonging the opiate experience.

I've already replied to that. If I haven't, I probably don't understand the question. I don't like to get into arguments, I prefer constructive discussions. If one takes some drug potentiating his opioid, he/she surely knows where to look for an answer on these forums whether to take it before (and how long before) or after and why. This has been discussed so many times.

 

[Pink1966Floyd]

Gona try some Quinine this weekend via some canada dry tonic water. The tonic, 30mg oral oxycodone, and some doxlamine should have me in nodsville i hope. : )

 

[waldo777]

tagament weakens opiates, DOESN'T lengthen duration?

When my friend tried taking 400mg of "tagament" or cimetidine (sic?) To potentiate his oxycodone, he found that the duration of the pain relief was the same, and that the actual efficacy or strength of his meds was weakened....has anyone else had a similar experience?

(FYI I used the search engine and trying to search through the mega thread took hours w/ no clear answer, so if someone thinks this should be merged because its been answered already that's fine),

Thanks in advance

 

[dokomo]

-->merged into Opioid Potentiation Mega-thread

 

[NeighborhoodThreat]

waldo777,

I've never heard of this happening, I use Tagamet to boost oxycodone all the time.

 

[muvolution]

When my friend tried taking 400mg of "tagament" or cimetidine (sic?) To potentiate his oxycodone, he found that the duration of the pain relief was the same, and that the actual efficacy or strength of his meds was weakened....has anyone else had a similar experience?

(FYI I used the search engine and trying to search through the mega thread took hours w/ no clear answer, so if someone thinks this should be merged because its been answered already that's fine),

Thanks in advance

my guess would be that you are naturally a slow metabolizer so by taking an enzyme blocker, you really kept the drug from turning into more active metabolites and from hitting you all at once. I would cease use of potentiators til you know the deal. I would also see a doctor for some blood work to check the function of your liver and kidneys.

 

[likeakite]

I have 8 - 25mg Cyclizine tables right now. They have a racecar on one side, Bonine on the other. I'll take two with a few Percocets. Cyclizine is the best. I found them at the drugstore on the bottom shelf, behind a pole.

 

[BrainstormWithJace]

Anyone have insights on GFJ and Kratom wasnt able to turn up anything concrete upon search.

 

[muvolution]

Has anyone seen/ heard/ tried anything about using a VERY low dose of an antagonist before using to boost your synaptic and receptor responses?

Like, if I used .125mg of suboxone before doing a full-agonist, will that boost it?

I definitely read it somewhere but I can't remember the source.

EDIT, Found it:

"Ultra-low-dose opioid antagonists
enhance opioid analgesia while
reducing tolerance, dependence
and addictive properties",
Recent Developments in Pain Research, 2005

 

[amapola]

Anyone have insights on GFJ and Kratom wasnt able to turn up anything concrete upon search.

I've looked it up before and remember that mitragynine undergoes initial hydrolysis at an ester bond along with some other methylation none oxidation steps so I doubt CYP3A4 is much of a factor in prolonging the high.

 

[brighton]

One thing thats always worked for me is taking codeine on an
EMPTY STOMACH. so simple, so effective

and if possible, dose when you get up in the morning before breakfast on
an extreme empty stomach

 

[lunarblue]

Thanks Alot. I am new to this appreciate the help.

 

[bignbrown]

Currently using oxy the past few days, i had promethazine once but ran out, will go get some more, what type of grapefruit juice should i get? Is it golden or white? Anything else worth getting to improve the oxy high?

Thanks

 

[bignbrown]

Is it true that taking promethazine before using opiates will shorten/weaken the high due to something with liver enzymes? But taking it after dosing the opiates is fine?