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Positive The Tapering Supportive/Social Thread

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Poke that's awesome! I am so happy for you.
I recognize now that I describe my situation as a pain sufferer and a patient with very real pain management problems, but I am now also an addict. I am now using my pills in exactly the same way I used alcohol before - as a mood stabilizer in addition to a muscle relaxer. My problem now is way worse however in that I don't know how to get more pills if I run out. My stash is almost gone and I am struggling to get back to my prescribed dose. I am not getting the relief from 180mg/day that I used to get from 45 mg/day. I need to quit for a few days to get my usage down but I keep making bad choices. I know I will make it through, but it does feel a bit hopeless right now.
I have work and family where I need to pretend that I am not suffering, even though I'm screaming inside while I'm waiting to take my next pill. I take one in the morning so I can relax, then I don't have enough to relax at night but I take them anyway. That's why my stash is gone.
I have been rx'd 90 mg/day oxy for 6 months. I should have hundreds of pills stashed, but I'm out of spares.
Sucks.
 
I am a few days into cold turkey H withdrawal and I will never try it this way. It hurts so bad I want to put a bullet in my head. I only have until tomorrow to go. It is fucking hell on earth and this method is just not for me. It's torturing me.

When I was on H I got up to 200 lbs from daily yoga and healthy eating. I've been puking and dry heaving for days. Getting skinny, losing all my hard work. It's fucking hell. Took 40 xanax to deal with it just now. fuckin 40. I'm better off shooting dope. Ill ave my pills tomorrow an OMG it will be heaven on earth for a while. I need a job and then I'll be able to afford my dope better.
 
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Squeaky, the stash never seems to last does it? I thought I'd save money getting a large amount of heroin... lol. Yeah right. I used more than ever in my life and then hit a few days of cold turkey which brought me to tears. I couldn't handle it at all. I freaked, it was the worst pain ever just huddled in a ball in bed for days and then I got my oxy's and even the first day, I didn't feel right. My body couldn't digest them because I hadn't been eating and I was so sick still. Now the second day back I've taken 80mg so far today and I feel okay. I feel great actually, I just had a 2 hour yoga sesh thatI worked my ass off during. I didn't lose any strength noticeably which was nice, I was concerned since I spend so much time working out when I'm "high". 8 more hours left in the day so my dose right now is probably around 100mg oxy/day.

Main thing for me is I like H way more and it's easy for me to get that. I won't be stocking up anymore because I blow through whatever I have. When I get low, if I have any sense left in me I'll get scared. I'm cutting back but I'll probably get on subs at some point. I want to be high this summer, work part time and make some new friends. Not be sick as fuck.
 
Yeah Shroomi..... the stash plan was great, until I used it all. Current plan is to get off the oxy for good eventually, then get a couple more scripts while i'm clean to rebuild my stash. It's a ten year plan.... Ha!
 
ShroomySatori said:
Squeaky, the stash never seems to last does it? I thought I'd save money getting a large amount of heroin... lol. Yeah right. I used more than ever in my life and then hit a few days of cold turkey which brought me to tears. I couldn't handle it at all. I freaked, it was the worst pain ever just huddled in a ball in bed for days and then I got my oxy's and even the first day, I didn't feel right. My body couldn't digest them because I hadn't been eating and I was so sick still. Now the second day back I've taken 80mg so far today and I feel okay. I feel great actually, I just had a 2 hour yoga sesh thatI worked my ass off during. I didn't lose any strength noticeably which was nice, I was concerned since I spend so much time working out when I'm "high". 8 more hours left in the day so my dose right now is probably around 100mg oxy/day.

Main thing for me is I like H way more and it's easy for me to get that. I won't be stocking up anymore because I blow through whatever I have. When I get low, if I have any sense left in me I'll get scared. I'm cutting back but I'll probably get on subs at some point. I want to be high this summer, work part time and make some new friends. Not be sick as fuck.
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I think getting on subs would be a good idea for you to investigate Shroomi! And on have a solid maintenance plan so that you are stable, without the highs and lows or using and running out, over and over.... sending you my best and most positive thoughts!

Squeaky: It sounds like you may just be getting to the end of your using days... I won't lie, the first month was rough, but bearable... I gathered support online, as I did not leave my house often. Now, with over two months clean, life is so much more stable, happier and easier. Not perfect by any means, but so much better than when I was obsessing about my next pill, counting my pills, counting days until my next pain management appointment... I have so much freedom now. Sending you love and light!
 
Subs are definitely worth investigating, but I've heard horrible things about them too. I'm not going to be a lab rat to doctors anymore so I am going to do my own research into them, which I haven't done at all. I know nothing about them.

I am doing fine though. Had a really great interview today and I just hope I got the job because it would be a huge step forward. My entire life is not about quitting opiates I am progressing in several other ways and I am generally happier these days. I think I'd just slowly cut back like last year but do it more slowly so that the post-acute symptoms wouldn't be as bad. I had it down to a science last year, I just went too fast because I didn't have the money to do a reasonable taper instead of those 50% dose cuts. With this job, I would be able to do a really slow taper - exact same as last year, but like 5 or 10% cuts with just plain oxy, what I know and how it affects my body. I don't trust suboxone because doctors lost their trust in me and it's a synthetic drug made for "junkies" I doubt they care much about side effects - I've heard about heavy weight gain, even worse withdrawal, etc. I'm looking into it though for sure, there are a lot of threads on it here.

I think my best bet is to do the exact same thing as last year - what I already know - except do 5% cuts instead of 50%. That way, when the acute withdrawal is over I won't be having panic attacks that have me so high strung 20mg xanax won't even phase me. That's why I went back last time. it was nothing physical in the traditional sense. The PAWS symptoms were horrific because I took it too fast - I mean, I wasn't fucking sleeping for like a week at a time and taking way too many benzos it wasn't worth it as that is a worse addiction. So I went back. For this slower taper, I need a job for the extra oxy pills since my dose is so much higher than the meager amount I get prescribed. I could have that as soon as today and I'd be so damn excited about it! I see no reason why I wouldn't taper in that case, if I could afford to do it slowly.

I am glad you are doing well pokemama. I am doing well too... just still stuck on opiates. But, I have made progress in several other areas of my life and don't really feel like I'm stagnating so much. I am in particular super happy that I am a vegetarian now and that I gained a ton of weight because how that back injury stole my ability to work out and keep myself fit and in shape was torture for me. I'm nicely fit again and I feel great. I'm strengthening my core and I think that will definitely help my back pain down the road. I have some really good asanas for my core that I do every few days. Similar to what physiotherapist had me doing, but better in my opinion. I've been to hundreds of yoga classes so I know what I'm doing at home... I mean I gained like 50 pounds this year.

The stash was great until it ran out... squeaky lol.
 
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Thank you Poke. When I quit cold turkey last year for 4weeks I definitely experienced the return to life that you describe. I actually feel emotionally strong enough to quit right now. The problem is that I am back at work and I can't just lie in bed for a month like I did the last time I quit. I will need to taper down and that is proving to be a lot more difficult than cold turkey.
 
I definitely found tapering necessary, cold turkey was too much for me, maybe cause I was dumb enough to get into Heroin, I dunno.

Yeah like I can't waste a season of my life like I did last Autumn. For me, I felt the return of the joy of life as soon as 7 to 10 days in. However, it was a couple months in when it started fucking with me hardcore. Panic attacks and insomnia hit me out of the blue worse than I've ever had in my life after the acute withdrawal was long over (like at least 6 weeks prior...). So, it sucked to go back at that point but I was taking so many benzos and still freaking out that I needed to at the time.

My method worked great last year but it needs to be done more slowly than 50% dose cuts. I think with my BPD and panic disorder my body can't really deal with the stress of it when I take things too quick. That's just me though, it was apparent the other week that it wasn't going to work out. Am I ever one to take my time lol that goes for like everythinggg in life. Such a late bloomer. Last autumn was much better, and I should have raised my dose just a little instead of doing dope but the thing is I didn't have a job to pay for consistent extra oxy's. While H is so cheap, and I am so above my measly prescribed dose it is an expensive habit just to be tapering with oxy's, but totally fine if I was working, I just wasn't back then and I will be soon. But I've had a few job interviews recently and coming up and something is going to give so when I have a job I'll be able to pay my way through a very slow taper that might take 6 months or longer but I really don't care even if it's like 5mg less a week, so long as I get there. No time for suffering like that at the prime of my life. This is when I really need to define myself and make things happen for me.
 
I have finally discovered something crazy:
I am getting more pain relief(and therefore more happiness) from less pills. I am scripted 30mg oxy pills, but I get more relief if I take 1/2 with 500 mg Tylenol.
Has anyone ever noticed that alcohol is much more fun when you're getting drunk and it kinda sucks when you're sobering up? I think the ride up is fun but the ride down is not, and that applies to my oxy habit as well. Last night I took 60 mg in 2 hours and it didn't feel as good(for pain relief) as 7.5 mg felt right now. It just made me stupid and dizzy.
Hopefully I can apply this theory to my everyday use and get my dosage way down. I'm gonna try 1/4 pills with 500mg Tylenol every 3 hours and see how it goes. That will get me instantly down to 60 mg/day.
 
Squeaky, sounds like it is worth a try... reducing your oxy dose and using Tylenol for its ability to decrease pain. Yes, I did notice that about alcohol... which is why I chose to quit drinking. I was so sick of feeling bad the next day it just wasn't worth the few hours of anxiety reduction it gave me the evening before.

Same with oxy... the amount of time I was getting relief from the dosages I was prescribed became increasingly shorter and shorter.
 
Yeah, relief intervals from oxy are really short now. 30 mg is lasting only about 60 min.
I quit drinking about 2 1/2 years ago. Cold turkey from about a liter a day for 15 years. I really miss alcohol. It did wonders for my Autism. The hangovers helped too. It's hard to think crazy thoughts when your head is pounding.
 
Hi Squeaky,
I read this post of yours and the one on the withdrawal thread... I had the same experience when tapering... the symptoms got worse and worse, so that is another reason I just jumped off. Why draw out the suffering, is what I thought? However, I know you have to go to work, and I was able to be home, which helped a lot. Hang in there, my friend!
 
I am on 150 mg a day ms?-contin but its end of month and I'm 3Days short so I'm only taking 60mg a day when I fill my script sat I want to stay at this level I also need to start an ativan taper had to change pain docs because they tried to force me off benzos in 6 weeks or stop my pain meds I'm 67 yo and their are more than 1 pain doc in my town so I switched. Things were perfect until about a yr ago now everyone is griping Stay safe out there
 
I am on 150 mg a day ms?-contin but its end of month and I'm 3Days short so I'm only taking 60mg a day when I fill my script sat I want to stay at this level I also need to start an ativan taper had to change pain docs because they tried to force me off benzos in 6 weeks or stop my pain meds I'm 67 yo and their are more than 1 pain doc in my town so I switched. Things were perfect until about a yr ago now everyone is griping Stay safe out there
 
Squeaky said:
Yeah, relief intervals from oxy are really short now. 30 mg is lasting only about 60 min.
I quit drinking about 2 1/2 years ago. Cold turkey from about a liter a day for 15 years. I really miss alcohol. It did wonders for my Autism. The hangovers helped too. It's hard to think crazy thoughts when your head is pounding.
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Hi Squeaky, I have been watching you since last year and you did incredible through your tapering and WD's, what is different now?

GL friend
 
Oxyfen- I think I have just given up. Cold turkey was 5 months after my first back surgery, and it was before I knew I had a real complication that would require another surgery 4 months later. I am now 9 months past my second surgery and I just found out that I will likely need a third surgery to repair more complications. My will to quit has been beaten down by my un-willingness to be in pain. Ironically it partly my guilt about how sick I will be that stops me from tackling wd's with any strength. I am worried my wife will hate me, and I won't be able to work fow a week or two.
Also I have serious depression that is better on the pills, and un-bearable while coming off them. Anyone who has been through this knows that time stops when you're trying to quit anything. The first time around was easier because I didn't know for sure how long it would take and I was confident I would be cured when it was over. Now I know it will feel like an eternity and I'm pretty sure my legs will still hurt- why the hell would I want to suffer through that again for nothing?
I make a good argument right? I know I'm dependant on the pills for more than just my pain. Every day I fear the Dr will cut me off. (Right now I'm kicking myself for throwing away around 40 dilaudid's the first time around.)
 
Squeaky, I am dependent on the drugs for a lot of things too. We are on similar (equivalent) doses of benzos and opiates. I would say, don't give up man and that is coming from me someone who did enough heroin over the winter to fucking nearly kill myself numerous times. And I recently did a half ounce of raw H in 3 weeks which is a LOT compared to a 100 - 200mg oxy habit that I usually have going on. In comparison I am scripted a little over a gram of oxy a month and that is 14 grams of easily equally potent H.

I am still not going up man, I'm just trying to lower my dose. Maybe, the best you can do is only dose at certain times of the day and keep on a strict schedule and that would be fine. I don't plan on quitting because it treats my BPD, chronic pain, panic disorder to a large extent, and other forms of anxiety. I just really need to cut back to a reason dose which to me is around 60mg oxycodone, 80mg max. So, if you are on a higher dose you might not be getting the best relief due to tolerance. I think you mentioned before dude that you get more relief off lower doses, and I do as well after I go through the initial suffering period.

So, I am fed up of being overly dependent. This is my second day of tapering. This time I am using my H because my H is consistent quality for the past year. It's always the same potency and I can weigh it accurately making tapering just as possible. Plus, being broke helps because I can only use small amounts. At the moment I am sniffing 20 milligrams every 8 hours and I am hoping to feel normal on that soon. I dose at 8am, 4pm, and midnight and NO other time is allowed and NO higher dose than 20 milligrams is allowed. Presently, the withdrawal is bad... I'm not puking or shitting my pants like I would in cold turkey... but it's bad. The recurring pain in my spine is extreme and has me laying in bed on a heating pad presently. I just know that if I keep doing this every day, it will be beneficial for me in the future. I will still get the relief of opiates but I will be using much less than I am (I can use up to 2 or 300mg H in a day easily). So this is a huge step down and I can handle it but it's really painful. This is also just my second day of doing this but after the 5th day or so, which will fly by, I'll start feeling a lot better.

Anyways man, you asked a question that only you yourself can answer. Is it a good argument? I make the same one dude. I am depressed to the point of suicidal ideation off of opiates and in excruciating pain. I recognize that I need them but I also recognize that I need to respect them or I won't ever be able to function. I'm certain I can keep doing what I'm doing and get stable on 60mg H then switch to my oxy script.

Without opiates like CT I just completely freak out man I could never do that, so I see your point for sure. But, you also need to somehow find a way to limit yourself to dosing a regular amount each day so that you are stable and medicating in the best way. For me, the best way is to come up with a taper schedule like I have now, and record my doses in my journal, with the reasons for why I am dosing (which for now would just indicate 'tapering') as well as talking to fellow users for support.

What does giving up entail, like giving up on life? Using the most oxy as you can? Dude... just hang in there and try cutting back a bit. We are deep into the taper thread you clearly have a lot of experience tapering now like me. Yet, we are still both fucked up. Just keep trying man that's what I'm doing anyway. I'm tapering with heroin but it doesn't matter. An opiate is an opiate and 20mg is a very low dose. Even if you are like me and have decided you never want to quit because you otherwise can't enjoy life, there is still a huge benefit to tapering your dose down to a lower level. It's very challenging, but doable if you really just commit to it. Now, it has been 7 hours since I dosed anything and I just have an hour to go. I feel like complete shit and I have those bone/muscle aches in my arms and my original spine pain is screaming at me but I will make it. If I keep doing this it's not like every day in the future will be this bad.
 
Squeaky said:
I'm back up to 60 mg/day oxy. My wife's b-day is tomorrow and I don't want to have any problems. I'll start hitting my taper again on Monday.
Good thing is- no wd's at 60 mg today. A couple of weeks ago I was WD'ing at 120 mg/day. I suffered through about 5 days of a hard taper down to 35 mg but it totally worked because now I'm taking 1/2 and having no WD's at 60.
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Sometimes it helps to revisit past memories. From the very first page. This is why I like to make the video recordings of myself as a sort of journal. I'm not telling you what to do man or where to go next. That is your choice of course and you suffer like me so I understand. But, if you did it before I don't see why you can't do it again bro. At least maintaining on a lower dose is a possibility not to disregard. I think if I keep up what I'm doing for 2 weeks I'll feel great! But, it's easier said than done. I could never ever do CT ever again, it was fucking hell. I'm not shitting myself and puking and dry heaving for days on end, that doesn't work for me unless I want to drive myself insane. I fast taper is what has always worked best but that's me.

Dude it seems like whenever we have to do something important, we use too much. If I have an interview, I get really high on opiates and I succeed, I do better. When I go on a date, I'll get really high first too. Anything important man, I have to get high on opiates for it. So, I am definitely treating more than just pain but part of me wonders if a lot of it is treating the side effects of the opiates themselves. I've always been very seriously depressed, with problems regulating my emotions. On opiates I'm just chill so they are very attractive to quiet my mind. Anyways, I'm in extreme pain during this taper. My back is killing me, so I wonder if I will be able to do it or not.
 
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Dam Shroomi that was awesome of you to check out my old post. Thank you for the words of encouragement.
I am breaking down my use a tiny bit each day now. It's really difficult though just because I have work and a family and everything hurts. My back situation is getting worse so my pain is going up on top if everything else. The body aches while trying to taper are really painful. I'm averaging 105 mg/day oxy with around 6grams of Tylenol. I haven't had to buy any off the street yet but I'm getting close.
 
Man we are around the same dose. 60mg of my heroin, I'd gladly trade for 105mg oxy/day if it wasn't percocet with apap or tamper-proof. Anyways, my withdrawals have been brutal this time because I was using sometimes 2 or 300 milligrams a day this year. The amount I am using seems like I am hardly using at all. It sucks. I like that I use once every 8 hours on a schedule because I never get too sick that I freak out like when I was in cold turkey, I was looking at the time seeing when I could get a fix again and then I went completely crazy with the drugs once I had a chance to use them again. So, that simply doesn't work for me I avoid that at all costs.
And yeah dude sometimes I just like to read through the old posts from last year, I was in a better place then. I was still seeing my girlfriend on and off but now that I haven't heard from her all year it has been devastating to me. It is what I think about a lot when I'm not using or haven't for a while and makes me want to use right away but I might have found someone new finally.
Watch the tylenol because I think the max safe daily dose for liver is 4 grams. Yesterday was my second day of doing this but my spine was killing me. It hurt so bad in my original pain place, much worse than the other withdrawal symptoms. I had lower pain in my spine too when it is normally mid-spine only. I know studies show that the pain can spread because it maps to the brain kind of side by side so if the neurons fire for long enough, say you have pain in your lower arm it might travel to your upper arm as phantom pain because the cells are beside the messed up ones that are constantly sending pain signals and I guess they are like F this and send them to nearby neurons and then you experience a spread in the pain. I hope that doesn't happen to me and there is that opioid condition to worry about too.... where people who quit end up experiencing more pain than the average person. Like, even taking a shower can hurt apparently.

I am getting up there, it has been half a decade and I think anything over 2 or 3 years you are pretty much screwed for life. Always a chance of relapse, post-acute problems etc. I have a habit of taking amphetamines in withdrawal because without them there are times when I could never see it through. I still managed to sleep last night taking a lot of melatonin and I woke up at 10 when I usually dose at 8am so this day should be easier. If it doesn't start getting better soon I'll raise my dose a bit. I am getting high off this amount which means I could probably get reasonably high off 3 percocets again. I'll probably switch to 30 milligrams every 12 hours once I am used to this because what I'm really trying to cut out is compulsive high frequency dosing. Or I might fall off the wagon and start using 100mg a day again at least, then my gram won't last 2 weeks it will last a week or less, and I will be searching for another. So fuck that because if I make it last 2 weeks then I'll have my new script and I can switch to oxy. It's a good chance for me to cut back and the amount I'm using presently doesn't both me. I'm not getting as many side effects and I am feeling the hits a lot better, eventually the hits will become much more longer lasting as well. I find with high dose or frequent use the doses do not last long. They take longer to kick in, and I get like an hour or 2 of relief. If I am using less H or oxy then the relief will last maybe 4 hours and I will not think about more until at least the 6th hour. It is much better to take less but I have this fiend thing going on that has to stop.
Amphetamines are oddly mild painkillers. I find it better to use those instead of taking more than I was intending to, because they don't have a withdrawal nor do they interfere with the taper very much. I can get really tired for a while if I use them too much, but for the first few days of withdrawal for me anyway, amphetamines are extremely useful. When I can't take the pain anymore and am thinking of dosing drugs that I either don't have and/or shouldn't be using more of anyway, I'll take an amphetamine instead and it helps see me through until I can dose again.
It was nice to wake up so long past my dose time and I didn't have the chance to feel sick as I never really wake up all that sick unless it's been like a really long time since I used. I guess since my body is still waking up, there is a short period of time where I can dose and avoid that feeling and this morning there hasn't been any pain. I think that it will be a much better day than yesterday. Since it is the third day, if I make it through today I will probably keep going with it. Since that means I've been through the worst of it and start getting accustomed to this new way of more controlled using.
 
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