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Positive The Tapering Supportive/Social Thread

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Awww, found post from yesterday.:) Glad to hear back from you! Hmmm, worried that since Your tolerance has lowered, yet you've taken lots today. Will kick in all at once - don't want you to fall into coma or worse. That's how most OD, starting back up where they had left off in past. I care about you Shroomy.

Your heart is still grieving over loss of her. The drugs won't ever fill that emptiness/hole, and NEWS FLASH, there is another out there for you. Best high of all is falling in love, and it will happen :) . I'll write tomorrow. You are intelligent and honest, don't drink, and had an amazing paying job, especially for a young man in his 20s. Have so much more to say but it is past bedtime and I am on xan and coming off a bowl of weed.

For your brother, if not yourself, please lay off more use today/night; new day tomorrow. Depression sucks, debilitating and dark. I know all too well. I'll write more tomorrow. Take Care and HUGS in the meantime. You're in my prayers
 
Fuck, I should have read your warning before I woke up. I did my usual thing. It was 2 hours until I was able to dose an opiate, just 4mg dilly, which hardly really affects me apart from holding me over from wd's (what I want for a taper) so that's what I'm working with right now. But yeah I went for the coke and did a few small lines the size I had worked up to before leaving... and it is GOOD coke... and I got the highest I have ever been in my life off the stuff. I am crashing now. I wasn't expecting that, just a little energy boost to play guitar. And I didn't want it. I don't want a fucking heart attack. Well, did I ever shred at least. That part was fun. I don't know if I like that exhilaration very much, it's a little intense for me. But yeah that's how people die especially with heroin and I did the same shit the week before I left. Picked up where I left off for a couple days and on the second day my breathing was really depressed. Even if you know this, it's hard to avoid because it is just what is natural, and you get high and then you are high and not thinking right. I should be fine though but I was a little worried at one point. The reintroduction to guitar was unbelievable though. That's the whole reason I had that shit laying around... for guitar sessions. Then I realized it was just another hit to fill the void when I didn't have my opiates.

How do you know all about this about me? (getting paranoid... : p )

Well, I sniffed a dilly 8 when I got home and just woke up now, a beautiful 6 hour nap. I never get high the first time... I just fall asleep and crash. I get high the second time, but I can't bring myself to stick a needle in my arm. Guess I was raised right at least a lil? Seriously... I can't fucking bring myself to do it. To me, that is my downfall. Accepting that it is going to kill me. I know I'll start shooting my dope if I do that and I get by just fine sniffing the stuff. I'll get cold turkey sick before I do anything but sniff those 8mg fuckers.

Well, I did some coke when I woke up. I do some coke when I woke up and... no comment. I shouldn't comment here. Anyways, I feel just extremely exhilarated about being home. I'm going to play some heavy metal guitar before I stay up all night. My entire fuckin face is numb right now but yeah... sucks to see me destroying myself. Depression sucks but anxiety is worse. I try to get rid of the panic with benzos and I end up exacerbating the depression hardcore. I've never had things this low. it is no wonder I began to abuse stimulants for the first time over this winter.

So thanks for the messages. I agree and I don't know why I'd expect to have just one girlfriend in life. It is hard to let go especially as a borderline BPD that disorder is centred around fear of abandonment. All this addiction shit is going to cause so many problems so she better be crazy too. Well, that is why I am good looking haha to compensate for that shit. And be a lil trickster as I don't appear to be an opiate addict but I mean a lot of people don't meet that stereotype. I will eventually clean up 60mg oxy a day right now that's not bad for me but it's also not anywhere near enough. It was a nice nap. I never get high the first time after a kick... I fall asleep. I get high the second time, but tonight I chose coke. My daily opiate dose is pretty damn low right now so yeah I gotta be careful a little even sniffing dilaudid as I am on benzos too and more frequently either coke or oral meth. So it's time to go say hello to my guitar and oh how I've missed playing. I've got a good hour in me of jamming out. I feel like the calloused fingertips are gone which always sucks.

I better lay off that coke. I just had one of the best guitar sessions I have ever had ever though in all of life. Damn did I shred, I didn't lose any skill while away at all. That felt fuckin amazing to play. Architects are by far my fave band right now and I think they inspired me to go a little harder on the fretboard since I have been listening to them so much lately. I'm actually in a pretty good position to kick as I am used to taking doses at specific times, and my overall daily use is low. For some reason the fuckin heroin is calling out to me. I liked the idea of hitting stimulants and just taking my stuff as prescribed as my back pain is certainly managed at this point. For a while... it wasn't... I was taking these doses and would not have a hint of back pain relief at all and I was bedridden. I am doing better now I should keep it up and not do a lot of heroin. It's just the cheapest one which makes it attractive and I always blow through my script early like even if I am taking 10mg more than prescribed and it's no biggie I'll run out earlier and then that's what causes the problems.

It just hit me how well I'm doing. I've been taking like 60mg oxy daily. That is like, well, nothing to me. My script is lower though so I run out ten days and then what??? Then what fuck??? That's my problem right now. I hate hate hate spending insane amounts of money on a handful of pills I know someone got probably for free somehow. So I just buy heroin and then totally fuck myself over but at least I'm supporting a cause that I believe in more. Real dealing and not hustling people's pain meds and fucking with the pain management system. Anyways, that's what screws me over. I can taper with heroin too though if I am very careful, I've done it before. I'd use a milligram scale, weigh out 10 or 20mg doses to take every 6 hours. Since I'm doing a 6 hour dosing regime presently. That is very important for me. I need to be dosing at specific times of the day and NEVER at another time than according to plan. It doesn't really matter if it's dope or hydromorphone or oxycodone or whatever. It matters if I am willing to take a dose low enough to not get all that high, and stick to the schedule. If I can get high, and I mean pretty damn high off 15mg oxy, I'm doing alright. The present crisis is being low on drugs and potentially running out cold turkey which is of course a great fear of mine. I am actually doing well especially now that I can use stimulants to help me through the post-acute depression and this crappy life funk in general. They are not addictive the same way. My bones do not ache for them and every cell in my body does not scream for them. They are nothing to me but a friendly hit and a guitar enhancer.

I can't touch needles though that part is obvious to me. I have the means to right here, right now, I have dilaudid but I refuse to do it. I'm especially not shooting a pill like heroin was meant to be shot but... I'm just not shooting a pill. That's fucked. I'd rather be sick or at least keep my tolerance low. I think that shit would destroy me really really fast. All it would take is one try and I would get over the fear and fall in love with it. I am better than that. I am at least better than that. I'm not shooting my fucking drugs that's just fucked, that's not how I saw myself living my life as a young adult. I find it a repulsive practice and I refuse to get involved in that shit no matter how addicted I become. It has been five years and I still haven't done it and it's like a moral thing. I just refuse to shoot drugs, I find it disgusting, I need to keep repeating this to myself because I always find myself tempted about how high I could get off less.
Sniffing drugs is one thing but shooting drugs is a whole different thing and way riskier. I'm not going to get a new girlfriend and worry about giving her hep C and shit like that like just fuck that shit I can't even believe I was planning on shooting up once I got home. It's really tempting as I know my dilaudid supply would suddenly double or maybe even triple but I get high enough sniffing them. I might not even enjoy it and I love sniffing little things. I'd lose that like I lost my ability to enjoy popping oxy's once I started sniffing stuff. So I am at least not doing that and my post is so long as I am keeping my mind off the coke crash.
 
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So I am just going to summarize what I wrote regarding tapering. I actually am deciding to taper now because I realized I'm used to taking pills on a schedule. That is the first step as opposed to getting a hit whenever I feel like it. So I am used to dosing every 6 hours and I will continue doing so but presently my dose of 60mg is much too low for me. It has been driving me fucking crazy so I'll raise it to 100mg, or the equivalent with a cheaper drug. Then, I'll feel well enough that I won't abuse benzos but I also won't be high on opiates. I will just be slightly better than well. So that is my plan, I definitely not doing a harsh taper again... it is not my time for that misery. It will be very gradual, mathematical, highly planned and slow. I will still get high from time to time but mostly on stimulants as I have developed a propensity for doing that. Doing a small line tonight was clearly better than breaking that 6 hour dosing regime. To the shit that I am truly enslaved to. And I need to lay off the benzos fuck that's the primary reason why I need to raise my taper dose, actually. I know it's too low when I start popping benzos like candy and not even feeling them, just feeling kinda stupid dumb numb braindead. So I have made a lot of progress without realizing it since I was so down on myself. Tomorrow I'll dose 16mg dilaudid total, not IV'd obviously because that would break my self esteem etc etc etc... it's just not for me. I can never IV it's a rule. It's one reason why I am still alive. And I'll probably take a quarter or half pill of speed for kicks. I am feeling very happy about this unrealized progress. I have no real desire to get super high. 16mg railed dilaudid is a good 24 hour dose for me right now. Way better than 60mg oxy. so 4mg sniffed every 6 hours. The sniffing doesn't bother me I find it easier to control my dose that way in fact. It's the IV, I need to dispose of my syringes before I use them. Had them laying around for like 6 months, but every time, I can't bring myself to do it. It seems like a really miserable thing to do and I like my veins the way they are. So that is my plan... it basically revolves around 6 hour dosing and making sure the doses are high enough that I don't completely lose my mind. If I want to get high I typically use a stimulant drug instead of an opiate as those do not cause this type of fucking hell. I might get depressed off them, but not drug sick.

If it wasn't for this site and talking to people I probably would have shot up by now which, knowing me, would lead to my death. It is stupid that I was considering that. I just switched from 15mg oxy every 6 hours to 4mg hydromorphone every 6 hours sniffed. I should be fine at that dose, if not I will increase it a bit as I am not going to freak out doing this anymore. Just go really slow, so that the post-acute symptoms are not as devastating. Since, when the drugs are abused they don't really work the same. I should be okay and I have to get the benzos under control. So far, I haven't been in withdrawal from these 6 hour doses, just depressed 2 hours away from the next dose. I was very depressed for a while but I am pulling myself out of that.
 
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Great that you have been able to stay out of the needle.

Girl I know from a rehab did accidentally shot midazolam yesterday to his artery and her leg is pretty much in a condition that might even lead into amputation and I had hard time on facebook trying to convince her to go ER but atleast she is going to a health center today.

I think that plenty of the progress I have made during my recovery process has been easier because I never used a needle.

One weird thing is that I didn't get high at all from hydromorphone although at the one point I was even trying to use it by sniffing an equianalgesic dosage of hydromorphone when compared to oxycodone as oral doses.

Might be because I was doing extended release version but the method I used should have got rid of the mechanism causing delayed action.
 
I'm not having trouble getting high off sniffing my dillies but I want to shoot them up to expand my small supply until I can get a supply of heroin that will hold me over for months. That's what I really need.

I've been coked out for the past 24 hours now. I am probably going to shoot my dillies beginning tonight because they just are not doing it for me like heroin always does. I'm barely feeling 4mg... it totally sucks. I don't want to shoot them but I'm risking completely running out of opiates otherwise.

My biggest problem right now, other than drug stuff which I'm sick of ranting about, is that I have a huge crush on this girl that works at the health store I frequent. I really like her a lot but I feel that I cannot making anything happen from it. There is a lot I like about her. She is tall like me, slender, has a black tattoo in the same spot as my black skull (kind of odd I thought, like the exact spot, and noplace else), nose piercing, bright eyes like fuck she is gorgeous. I manage to chat with her but it just sucks.
We have university degrees in the same area but like the opposite end of the spectrum and I always told myself those are the girls I'd like since we are similar but different. We are also both looking to start careers with great degrees but struggling with the job market so I mean like I can just relate a lot to her. I don't have any confidence, then I just get really angry at myself and I want to self harm. What better way to self harm than hit my vein with dilaudid. I was hoping to see her today, and I did, and she was super nice to me asking me how my trip was and stuff... like she's really nice to me but I am just stupid. I'm just an idiot or I'd be getting her number. I like her too much, way too much. I always do lines before heading there because otherwise I will not say a word, but I've gotten to know her. It is always up to the guy to make the move and I can't do anything but dream of this. I'm just depressed and it makes me want to hurt myself that I'm not good enough to really meet someone like her. I don't know what to do. So I just get high. I'm not happy about this and I'm just including this because it leads me to abuse drugs. I am very lonely and how long have I been saying this now? Since like last September, when I was already fed up of this bullshit? Like I try. I'm not lazy I try. I head over there more than I really need to and make an effort to try and be funny and witty and stuff. I'm just not good enough compared to other men and really that has always been the source of my self harm. My dissatisfaction with life. It's hard to be forever alone in that way, especially when I know damn well that I am cute and have good qualities and really drugs don't get in the way of that for me. I am just missing the one key thing: confidence. I have none of it. I can get it from drugs but it's false and my spirit is crushed.

I just included that because it is a trigger to abuse more drugs for me. Shooting up doesn't seem so bad anymore. I'm alone as fuck for so fucking long and other men would be complaining after like a month or two of this shit! Not years. The loneliness is crushing. I'm not socially functional because I have no idea how to express my feelings for her except to myself. It just makes me wanna get high, anyways I spent more money on heroin than I did on my vacation. I'm still trying to get my shit together but it's hard being alone for so long it has made me severely depressed. I'm not desperate though I am used to this shit. I really, seriously like her a lot and would like to see if we could be friends or something more.
It's not okay to never have someone close to me in that way. I thought I might meet someone on my trip but I was just drug sick and depressed. I still tried, and nothing worked out. It makes me feel very inferior to others. If I had girlfriends growing up I never would have abused drugs to the extent that I did. I don't even think I liked getting high. I just wanted to hurt myself, there came a point where that was the case and drugs are a good way of doing that. I can't take it anymore. I plan on shooting up tonight, I popped the rest of my oxy's because I'm scared of needles but I'll get over it. I just need the relief and I'm pretty sure I can shoot 2mg and it will hold me over way better than sniffing 4mg which I can barely feel, just a little tingle of happy. I need my fuckin heroin but the large amounts I need to hold me over as a sniffer are tough to come by. It could be a week before I'm fixed with it.
 
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You are getting into somewhere as you have a good idea what is causing the need for harming yourself.

It seems like you are trying to do a lot about it too but do you feel you lack that something to get it really done? Like you are trying to get forward by pushing the pedal but your gearbox is stuck in neutral?

I know it would be pointless to say just do it as I have been in a situation that sounds kind the same and going nowhere although I knew what I should be sorting out. I couldn't either as well do anything to get into a relationship with a girl I knew and was in love with until I finally managed to get through all that bullshit about others being better than I and not feeling any joy about living.

In general the biggest issues I had was about not living in the present but instead either in the past or future and also not accepting myself as I am as well as feeling no reason for our existence and not being able to trust others.

I can't exactly point out how I managed to overcome those issues but mindfullness was a key factor when going through it as well as learning to ask and receive help from others. It took a long time to get through but as I finally started doing small things towards my goals I actually felt like progressing.

I really do hope you'll manage to get through all you need to go through.
 
I am doing okay with her. I am managing to hold interesting conversations and it just feels good to be trying. She is honestly the girl of my dreams, in so many ways.

I am not doing so well with the drugs. First it was a coke binge for 2 days and then some meth. I don't have my opiates and I need my fix. As soon as I get it, I'll stop abusing those other drugs. I'm almost there but I have to wait for my heroin and pills. I'm holding myself over with a little dilaudid in the meantime but it totally sucks. I don't want to quit at all at least presently. I just want to never run out.

Living in the past or future just sucks. You miss out on the present and I tend to psyche myself out doing that.
 
First of all I have to CONGRATULATE pokemama for doing so well recently! I am so happy you made this thread; you have done a great thing. I have no idea how you did it as that quick of progress is completely beyond me, you are doing so well and I am very proud of you. I know that you have struggled a lot and that the oxymorphone wasn't doing you much good. And that is a heavy med to be on, you are doing amazing. When I am really down on myself I can come here, read my old posts and realize that I need to keep strong and taper. I just need to take it really slow because of my severe mental health issues, and not just the chronic physical agony. I really need to take it slow because otherwise I completely freak out. So that's my new plan. A really nice, slow taper to ease off and maybe in a few years from now I won't even be a daily user anymore. Time will tell how things will work out for me. I'm treading on thin ice.

I am doing okay with her. I am managing to hold interesting conversations and it just feels good to be trying. She is honestly the girl of my dreams, in so many ways. Although, I am meeting some other women as well. I really shouldn't have a problem with it and that's why it's kind of depressing me and bringing me down but I just need to be patient. And things will work out, I'm nice, friendly, and I'm cute : p

I am not doing so well with the drugs though. First it was a coke binge for 2 days and then some meth. I don't have my opiates and I need my fix. As soon as I get it, I'll stop abusing those other drugs. I'm almost there but I have to wait for my heroin and pills. I'm holding myself over with a little dilaudid in the meantime but it totally sucks. I don't want to quit at all at least presently. I just want to never run out.

Living in the past or future just sucks. You miss out on the present and I tend to psyche myself out doing that. I have done that so much, that I have been unable to pay attention to my surroundings. Then, when someone approaches me I just appear out of it, like a space case and it takes me too much time to respond. I used to get stuck in my mind a whole lot but it's improved since I've stopped with all the cannabis (I still like cannabis a lot, but it has side effects related to my mental health issues, but also definite benefits). I haven't smoked weed in 6 months though and I don't plan to most likely ever again.

Today hasn't been going so well. I sniffed 12mg hydromorphone which gave me a real high as heroin would. I took a half-pill of speed. Not good, but I need to get my shit together. I'm also really a lot more hopeful now despite the continued abuse. That's important and it's not because I am high all the time. I'm not. I'm truly hopeful for my future success, and I've made a lot of progress with the opiates these past few months.

If anyone of my taper friends are reading this, don't give up! If I can make some process with all these things that are making it so extremely complicated of a process, I'm sure you can to just fine. The mind is a powerful thing, and you just have to use it in a constructive way. It doesn't need to feel impossible but of course it's very tough for any of us. I think pokemama is doing really well and she is an inspiration to me and I am so happy that she created this thread. So congrats! I really want to keep my use at a reasonable level and not spiral out of control like before. Which involves a lot of serious tapering : )

I know when I had been smoking 30 bong rips a day for 10 years, it was VERY hard to stop psychologically. It took me several attempts, and I would be so down on myself when I relapsed. I was definitely addicted as fuck, almost similar to my present opiate addiction but mild in comparison. I'd still have to write the whole first week off, and I would go on a bender to ease the symptoms. It took two months for me to come around and feel normal again, and that's just with weed. I really was smoking a lot though and all day every day, using it as an escape and for such a long, long time with not a single break. It took me around ten attempts to quit. I had to lock myself in a cabin in the woods for 6 months in order to quit smoking weed, actually. It was on my mind constantly during that time. My family knew and would bring me up groceries as I knew if I had any chance of grabbing a bag I would do so without hesitation. I spent those months reading high times magazines and watching people smoke bong on youtube. Eventually, I smoked 6 months later and had an extreme panic reaction. Probably the worst panic attack of my life. I proceeded to completely forget about weed, like a switch had flicked, and I didn't use weed for three years after that. I picked up the habit last year but rather quickly dropped it as I saw the same behaviour occurring (spending thousands of dollars on it, using it before work in abundance, never feeling like I had enough). So I quit that at the same time as oxycodone (well, my taper documented on here) and I really think it exacerbated the mental health issues I encountered, especially a month or two down the road. Now that I don't use cannabis anymore, I have an overall better chance of getting my shit together.

I really need to taper down to a lower dose if I can barely feel a 4mg dilly and it takes me 8 to 12mg insufflated to get any sort of relief. I love my dilaudid, but it's a special occasion sort of thing. I'm really low on pills right now and it is actually cold turkey. My main issue right now is making sure that I actually still am in the position to taper by sourcing more pills. Otherwise, I might have to go cold turkey for a few days in the near future and that frightens me. I like extended release morphine, it just lasts so long taken orally and doesn't give the same euphoria, but the pain relief is excellent.

Anyways, I am still not giving up. I am fighting the good fight and sure I've been kicked down a lot but I am not going to give up. I need to at least taper down to a lower dose, stop using H completely, and possibly even quit permanently (but years down the road). I am not going to consider suboxone or methadone whatsoever. I do not trust doctors after one prescribed me close to a gram of seroquel a day for my panic issues. I'm not psychotic and it was a fucked up experience. I gained a lot of weight and well... I like being attractive and cute. It made me a zombie too. So, I would just never personally trust that stuff. I'd be one of those people who still finds a way to get a hit from a typical full agonist somehow. I personally think that a slow taper is the only way to go for someone like me who is really struggling in life with a lot of issues other than drug use and chronic pain.

If I get with a cutie again I mean I don't hold secrets so perhaps she could hold onto my pills while I taper, because I will be tapering with full agonists and after a little while just my prescription. The only ORT I'd consider would not really be ORT... it would be low dose extended release morphine to taper with. That actually works incredibly well as oral morphine does not produce the same euphoria as something like oxycodone - it's not as satisfying to someone used to that drug - and the practice is used medically in some countries. But it gives enough relief that you don't drug seek. I've personally experimented with this and had great results getting off sniffing that demonic dope using it. I am feeling a lot more motivated since I forced myself to have a vacation that meant tapering off to probably 50% or less of what I was taking before in two weeks. This had a lot to do with getting out of the flat and actually doing stuff. I'm still keeping the activity up... I got for daily walks, I'm getting out more. That's helping me a lot than just sitting around. I'm even working on my career which I only ever do when I have confidence and a lot of faith in myself. My guitar playing is through-the-roof mind blowing excellent. I don't like to brag, but damn am I ever getting good! The progress has just been insane, and I can't even really believe it's me playing all that improvisation and writing cool music. It's a great emotional outlet.
 
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Hey Shroomi, It sounds like you are continuing to try and taper... good for you! I say: Never, never, never give up... that is how I got my 25 days clean off of opiates. It is so sad that with your physical pain and mental health issues, that you cannot get on methadone or subs (ORT), and get really nice and stable... w/o the ups and downs of having dope, not having dope; using speedy type drugs, not using uppers. Man, you must be up and down, emotionally, quite a bit... I feel for you.

Haha... now I am tapering off of ativan... last week, i was taking 5/8 of 1mg ativan, as I had to quit baclofen two weeks ago, as it was making me so dizzy and ill, and I could not taper it, so I used my old ativan to taper. Now, if I skip a night of ativan, or just take .1 mg, I get bad insomnia at night, and depression during the day.
Last night, 3/8 of 1mg helped me sleep great. The key for me is to not use it everyday, just when I get very sleep deprived or have a big day, then I will want to take it the night before.
All I want is to be of all drugs, but as I said before, this is a marathon, not a sprint. If I rush the benzo taper, I may end up on something worse... so for now, my taper goal is: do not use my ativan more than 3-4 nights a week, and not more than 3/8 of 1mg for the next month.
Then, I will reassess and see if I can lower my dose to 1/4 mg.

Hi Squeaky... how are you doing?
 
I would never use methadone or subs. Thanks for the suggestion, but the last thing I need is to try more drugs right now. The reason I say this, is that I have completely lost faith in the "health care" system. All they have done is completely fucked my life up or at least contributed to it. I can taper on my own just fine, but my supply is low right now and that's why things are rough. I have money again so I will be able to taper soon. My supply won't be low for long, so I'll be tapering again on a schedule soon. I'm going to keep doing what I'm doing - expressive writing, creative guitar playing, and making videos talking to myself. I just don't have the pills to taper right now but I am rectifying this. I feel like I would get a lot of side effects from methadone or subs. They would probably drastically raise my tolerance. I'd probably find a way to abuse opiates anyway, and both of those are still opiates. I don't believe in it. I was doing fine tapering with my percs! I made it from a huge heroin habit to 40mg oxy last year. I can do it again, just more slowly.

Baclofen gave me a lot of side effects. Made me feel really weird... I think I know what you mean by dizzy. I felt weird in the head. I also had rebound spasticity in my neck. I was using it in massive doses for a long time while tapering last year.

I don't plan on quitting opiates just keeping them at least under some degree of control... like how I was doing last year.

I became so nervous about my supply today, because I might run out cold turkey before I'm able to get it. Or, I might feel forced to shoot the rest of my dilaudid to hold me over until I can get it. So, I did something really stupid and took 30mg etizolam and 18mg alprazolam. I hope I am okay, but I'm just desperate. This is a very rare situation for me. It has to do with how I was away from my country for so long and wasn't home to maintain my supply in case it got low. The panic of a forced cold turkey for a few days is too much to handle so I decided to try and knock myself out with some benzos.

Once I have the right dose of a good opiate in me, all will be well and this mess will clean itself up. Everything falls apart when I run low, but I rarely run low anymore. As soon as I have even a little bit of morphine to hold me, I'll be just fine. I'll totally forget about the coke and the speed and it's just short term use anyway. My benzo use will be normal and not abuse, and it is only here or there that I do that.

Thanks for the suggestion of ORT. The only ORT I'd consider would be 100mg extended release morphine which they do in some countries I think I mentioned before. I will never in all my life try methadone or subs because they are just other opioids. I'll stick to what I know from years of experience, and taper with that. Thanks for the suggestion, but my taper will not involve doctors or the medical system whatsoever. They have royally fucked my health. The first thing I was prescribed was around a gram a day of seroquel, an antipsychotic. For some anxiety. It was literally retarded and fucked me up even worse after a year. I've had an aversion to doctors ever since. Last autumn I was doing great and my dose isn't much higher than it was back then near the end. I don't see why I can't do it again, but I definitely need a supply to taper and I feel better relying on dealers for that than doctors.
 
Shroomi- next time you're feeling low but you haven't got high yet go back and read all of your own posts. You will see how much your struggle could help and inspire others. You can see how much sense you made and how smart you sound when you're not using H. It's obvious how scrambled you are when you have been binging on all of the illegal stuff, and how much more stable and sane you feel when you stick to the prescribed meds(even when you're taking too much).
You are a good person, and you should know that there are many of us reading your posts and getting help fromthem.
 
Personally, my tapering efforts have gone to s**t. I took 180 mg oxy yesterday when I was hoping to be down to 60 by now.
I saw my pain Dr last week and he gave me 90/day again, so I'm running through my reserves pretty fast. I need to at least get down to my rx'd dose before I'm really in trouble! I had about 100 30mg ER oxy's in reserve, but i got really good at chewing them and sucking on the pieces for faster absorbtion so it's been easy to take an extra couple of doses each day. I really need to stop doing that.
Maybe today I'll start. I've said 'maybe today' about 100 times in the last few months.
 
Squeaky: This stuff is so hard! I got myself backed into a corner by telling my prescribing pain management doctor I wanted to taper, so that he would prescribe comfort meds. And... he cut my dosage of pain meds at the same time! I was never so scared and frantic at the same time, but knew that I had to go through with the taper, which I cut my regular dose by 75%, even though I was prescribed more than that, and then jump off.

At 29 days clean off of opiates, can I tell you what a relief not to have to rely on pills, count pills, live my life around those damn pain management appointments, etc. I send you positive thoughts that you can successfully taper down to your prescribed dosage!!

Hi Shroomy: Hope you are doing ok... and taking care of yourself...
 
Squeaky, I don't really appreciate being called scrambled by an old friend. Man, I know what I am. I hope your taper is going okay though and that it was just a one-day thing, don't get down about it or continue with those crazy high doses more than just for that one day (that's higher than what I ever take, with heroin or dilaudid or oxy or anything). But yeah man skip to the bottom 6 spaced out parts of this note and I have a nice little technique I picked up from a book that is really helping me. You should check it out man, I already know you keep some sort of log? Yeah dude we keep screwing up, but you are still here writing with the idea of quitting in mind and 60mg is a very low dose. At that point it's pretty much just legit pain management so... that's a dose I can't handle at this point in time. I need more like 80 - 100mg a day to be satisfied, but I can still feel 3 percocets pretty well or a few 10mg ER oxy's. Just don't keep that heavy daily dose up for long or your tolerance will skyrocket but of course you know that, you already know everything I will tell you. Just saying man... if only I could follow my own advice lol. But yeah man this technique (last 6 little "paragraphs" - I am an engineer not an english major haha so screw paragraphs and grammar etiquette) is really helping me keep track of my doses, and reasons for using. So if this technique can help me, it can probably help others too. It is mainly an awareness-based cognitive technique for becoming more conscious of your habit, as well as discovering and revealing the most common reasons why you choose to dose, and I really needed that.

I wasn't offended though, I understand why you'd think that. There is a lot going on in my personal life though other than drugs, and when shit goes down is often when I come here to write. The beginning of the year was so full of relationship problems that I had zero chance of success... I took that vacation, sort of cleaned up a little, cleared away some cobwebs, and I am in a much better position to be successful now with dropping my dose a bit. I don't want to quit, as quitting would leave me in physical agony chronically, but I'd like to be taking like 60mg oxy a day. Maybe getting high on stuff like stimulants instead on occasion, if I feel the need to get high (which I will, it is a part of me), and leave my pain management alone, no longer seeing these pills as a means to getting high. That would at least be a start as they are more addictive than anything I have ever used, and they have become too expensive with tolerance and my doctor pretty much abandoning me due to hysteria, to be a sustainable treatment for pain. I will still be in some pain at the lower dose, but that is life. I don't know what the fuck I did to deserve this but it doesn't matter, here I am experiencing pain chronically and having developed an addiction on top of it as a result.

It's not always about the drugs in my case, and if you're taking that much oxy there isn't much difference to using a little high quality heroin. I was in hysterics for a while due to my vacation and forcing myself to leave the country. It was great for me in the end, because I feel more free spirited now. It's not such a big deal to leave my place, and for a while it was. I was here for so long that it felt odd being anywhere else, I was developing agoraphobia (well, a fear of and aversion to leaving my place to do anything) and the trip broke that completely. I was also hysteric during the trip and taking a lot of benzos (worst thing for me) but at the end of the day, there were some happy moments and that is what I remember. I'm glad that I forced myself to do that, even if it wasn't a great time and stressed me out unbearably at times.

I'm keeping track of my use and for me it will have to be a very slow taper, as last year when I tried to do it abruptly, I freaked out. I was having panic attacks so bad that I would take 20mg xanax and barely feel it, which was when I decided to start using opiates again. Now that was actually scrambling my brains. The legal drugs fucked my head up worse than the illegal ones. I have learned to never trust a doctor, and I will never trust them with anything that involves medication ever again. Even baclofen, a common and not really abusable muscle relaxer was frying my head and I was getting withdrawals from that too.

So I try not to use comfort meds at all anymore. I stick to my regular benzos dose. Also, my diet has never been cleaner. Finally, after years of refining my diet, I am now a vegetarian (I might make an exception, and eat oysters for their aphrodisiac properties, or something, but for the vast majority of my life I never eat any meat at all with the very rare exception). I didn't plan for that to happen, it wasn't a moral or ethical thing at first (more about having a healthy diet to look and feel good) - but after continually refining my diet over years, I realized that I did not need to be eating meat at all. It became unnecessary. I also take a lot of different vitamins and herbal supplements so along with daily yoga practice my health is superb in that sense, and I just keep that up if I am withdrawing and everything I eat and supplement helps.

What I do right now is whenever I take a dose, keep note of it in a log, and give a reason for why I took the dose (examples such as avoiding withdrawal, back pain or wherever your chronic pain is, treating a BPD related emotional outburst, depressed mood, wanting increased focus and energy, coming down off some other drug, etc...) - this is a technique that I took from Crowley's Diary of a Drug Fiend (a highly recommended read) and I think it's great for increasing awareness of your usage patterns and why you are using.

This is very helpful. For example... my most recent entry: Time - 12:00am, Dose - 10mg H, bump of snow, Reason - strenuous day left me with severe back pain, staying up late to work on my resume and submit job applications, withdrawal coming on

The idea is I don't want to see high doses like 50mg oxy. I don't want to see reasons that don't make sense, I don't want to see high daily doses over 100mg, and I also want to analyze the reasons that repeat themselves most frequently very closely as I carry on with this. The act of recording causes one to pay close attention to their use, which will hopefully add an incentive for self control and dose reduction. That's just one tip or idea I'd give to someone going through this. It helps to analyze the habit on paper. Things can easily escalate and I am trying to keep it to 80mg a day at the moment, of oxy or H (either is fine really, and I find them very close to equipotent) - as that daily amount should more than suffice for my back pain and withdrawal maintenance.

I'm pretty sure I'd look back at this in the future, and understand where I'm coming from. I wouldn't re-read this thread because last year did not go so well for me and I will not be making any such similar attempts at reducing in the future. Earlier this year, I was in hysterics for personal reasons and had the worst possible start to the new year that I ever could have had. I have new ideas in mind, and I am happy that I feel well enough to be getting back to my career. That makes me really happy, and I'll be much less lonely of a man when employment starts, with a concomitant social life. As I'll be moving to a city to work, where several very good friends of mine live and work. It would be far easier for me to find romance there, and I'd be well on my way to a happier existence. I'm hoping this will happen soon, and I am putting in the required effort.

That book is amazing by the way (Diary of a Drug Fiend). It is not just a book about getting high, although H and C are prominent throughout the book. It's a romance about a couple who binges on them during their honeymoon, and then cleans up together with the help of an enlightened man on the subject. So it's an awesome read if anyone likes reading and is struggling with addictions... I also thought the romance in it was pretty cute, and there is also a lot of discourse related to the occult.

So I hope everyone is doing well, especially Squeaky this time. Hang in there man, I understand why you said that. Sounds like you just had a bad day as well with the high dose, obviously you don't take those quantities daily or you would be approaching Shroomy-fucked-up territory haha. And I know you are keeping it together pretty well by the sounds of it in comparison to myself. But I am not giving up either, just taking it one day at a time because I can't handle abrupt changes or abandonment (even drug abandonment) emotionally with one of my disorders. So I am doing what I can handle, while keeping healthy and still taking my life seriously. Some people might be able to handle a cold turkey withdrawal like pokemama... that takes a lot of strength and commitment. I sure as hell can't manage it, I'd never succeed and that's okay as other methods exist. We have to find our own ways and what works for us through experimenting. If something doesn't work the way I want it to, well I try something different.
 
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Thanks Shroomi. I meant no offense.
I have been at 150+mg/day oxy for a couple if weeks now and it's just rediculous. I am loving your suggestion to document my resaon for each dose. I have been logging my doses just for a daily history and that is helping, but some personal accountability sounds like a solid plan. I think I will try that.
I see PokeMama hasn't been posting as much. I hope that means she's just not thinking about this stuff and is moving on.
 
Hi Squeaky,
I have started a recovery journal thread under Sober Living, so I do most of my posting there. I am not at all ready to stop posting on BL so early in my recovery.... I have 5 weeks clean today, and still am dealing with physical health issues, as well as the emotional stuff. Therefore, I am still around... just not tapering. I was able to jump off my little dose of ativan several days ago, with no ill effects so far. Thank you again for all the support and encouragement both you and Shroomy have given throughout my tapering efforts. I sure wish you all the best with your taper!! And, I will drop by here from time to time... this thread was very important to me.
 
Hello so i have been reading this thread all week and i now feel like squeaky shroomi and pokemama are part of my family. Lol. I love to read and i would find myself so concerned at work about how the tapering was going i would read the thread on my breaks and on lunch at work. Your stories through life are so heart wrenching and motivational that i have not even bothered to try to find another support group online. So this is my story this is my first time ever posting about addiction let alone my own. I have had 5 children 2 of them with no epidural and nothing for pain. I never took the pain medicine they give you after having a child as i just didnt feel the need to. The only time i ever took pain medicine was for a tooth ache. In 2011 i was working as a pizza delivery driver at 400 lbs let me tell you when your that heavy it is not easy to get in and out of a car a dozen times in a short amount of time. I was always tired and i was always in pain my mom was really concerned about me one day when i was crying in pain i finally broke down and asked her if she had anything and she gave me some gabapentin 600mg so i would 1 or 2 and be able to make it through my night much easier. I started taking it everyday all the time i told myself it wasnt a big deal because it wasnt a narcotic. In 2013 that all changed i was so tired of being so heavy and not being able to do anything with my kids plus being that heavy effected my breathing very badly as ive always had horrible asthma so with my husbands support i signed up to get gastric bypass surgery after a surgery like this your body can not digest pills correctly so they put you on liquid loratab each dose equivalent to 10mg i was on this for 6 months i remember 210ml only lasting me 3 days so they put me back on pills and i have been on everything under the sun since then ( prescription pain medicine) i ended up getting ulcers and had to have another surgery and now they are unsure why i am still in so much pain. My husband has been so supportive he knows and he has held my hand through withdraws he has listened to me yell and scream at him for no reason. All of this and he still loves me. I however do not love myself i hate relying on the pills. I have lost close to 200 lbs which is good i wanted this surgery so i could be happy and be the wife and mom i know i can be but i know i have this fucking black cloud of addiction hanging over my head. A couple weeks ago when 1 out of many of the times i was out of opiates someone told me about kratom so that day of course we bought some as i was in pain and wd and needed some kind of relief. It was a lifesaver for 12 days. 12 days no wd and my pain was barable but day 13 i took a pill. Shroomi i totally agree with u about the er morphines btw. My husband had surgery on monday i work full time by the way i also homeschool my 8 yr old i hate people who think because your an addict your not a functioning member of society i am trying very hard to be. Do you know how horrible i feel knowing my husband got pain medicine and i have to resist from asking? What kind of monster am i? And the loving person he is if he thought i needed it or i was in pain weather he was in pain or not he would give me his last dose. HELP i dont want to be a monster.
 
By the way taking up to 4800 mg of gabapentin is nothing to me now i try not to exceed that dose though i get 90 7.5 norco 5 a month and find ways to get the rest as you can imagine my 90 last maybe a week if im lucky do u think i should continue to try to taper with the kratum as my krutch?
 
Hey there, welcome, cool to hear other people reading this thread. Yep, ER morphine just isn't that abusable, it's excellent for pain and it's really all I would need as a replacement. It's also naturally occurring, which I like. For some people it has too many side effects or the common side effects are worse, but I like it a lot as a pain med.

I'm not sure about norcos, I have never been on those or used them and I haven't had success with kratom because it makes my stomach nauseated. So I know nothing about using kratom as a withdrawal aid, and have no experience with it so much. I also have never used gabapentin, someone else here probably has used these things.

You are not a monster for being hooked on pain pills though. That's not a good thing to say about yourself nor true. So you don't want to be addicted anymore... that is different, and doesn't have to do with being a monster, or a bad person in my opinion unless you are stealing etc. hurting others to support the habit. You could try giving your husband the norcos so that he is holding onto them, and giving them to you day by day, daily prescribed supply, so that you don't run out of them in a week but they last the whole month?

So you get 3 pills a day, the norcos 7.5mg hydrocodone right... how many do you have to take each day to be comfortable?

Be careful if that medication contains APAP or paracetamol, that you are not taking over the daily amount of that stuff which is in a lot of pain meds. This is very important because it can harm your liver.



As for myself, I haven't been tapering but my dose is stable and pretty high too Squeaky. We got issues buddy, lol. Don't let it get any higher than that man but yeah, I am not a saint myself. Yeah man the reason thing in my logbook is a great thing to do to keep track of why. So... lately there is not much going on with me. I am just working on my resume tonight, I generally have more energy and I feel pretty happy. I feel sociable. I like talking to cute women and there is one who I am so very close to getting somewhere with after like a month of effort. We have a confusing dynamic that keeps going back and forth but it's cute... she's cute... when I am feeling down she keeps us together, she has started contributing a lot more not just me and I'm beginning to realize... I guess I probably mentioned this she's always on my mind but I'm keeping myself busy and I am just going to ask her on a date on Monday if I have a good opportunity to. Enough excuses. In the meantime I need to work on careers and I am just procrastinating haha. Trying to spend a little time in wd but I need a job so it's tough.

My main goal right now is to remain calm and productive and also to just go ahead with asking her on a date because it is really important to me that I do that. So I'm not going to be thinking about it but when the time comes which I hope will be soon, I will be ready this time. Really, my life is just pretty normal when I'm not trying to get off this shit. Then, everything falls apart. That can wait... at least until I try and get with this girl I like way too much haha. I am crazy about her, that's why I keep writing about her. It's really important to me and requires my full attention and also I can't be high or I won't get anywhere. I have to just be at a mid-range dose so eventually I'll start tapering again but not right now, she is crazy special and if I'm mentally unstable and sick right now I won't get anywhere... it is a long kinda cute story, but we both like each other now. So, not the time time disappear into withdrawal for a couple weeks. No way, but it's still on my mind to cut back pretty soon.
 
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I dont want to stop the gabepinton or the oxys. Ive tried giving them to my husband but i just end up yelling and screaming at him which he doesnt deserve. I just dont want all these stupid pills to rule my life. I keep reading how besides the pain theres underlying reasons and i just havent found mine besides the stupid pain
 
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