The Big & Dandy AL-LAD Thread - Part 1

[The Shadow Self]

There is no doubt in my mind that the LSZ and the AL-LAD I have researched are, in fact, what they are purported to be. And they have come from one of those places that have been proven reliable. And, I am aware of the test results showing +. And I like it. These are lovely compounds, and they'll be in a cold, argon-filled glass vial for future reference.

 

[jason7]

It's been lab tested as someone mentioned earlier

http://www.ecstasydata.org/view.php?id=2829


Sounds like they are quite sure it is AL-LAD based on all available evidence, but are not 100% positive as they don't have a proper reference for the drug.

Yeah, those are the AL-LAD blotters that are currently available, with the AL-LAD printed on them as seen in the linked page. Must all come from the same source. Isn't like you can just buy those printed blotter sheets at Blotter Sheets R Us.

 

[borega]

actually u can (get custom blotterart), but thats not the point. To my knowledge the all come from one chinese source, but as there is also crystal AL-LAD beeing sold there should be other blotter containing the compound.

 

[atara]

inferences derived from TiHKAL

A few points:

Analyses from EcstasyData have shown that someone out there is, indeed, selling real AL-LAD

The synthesis of AL-LAD and other lysergamides can be performed without proceeding through LSD. Proceeding through LSD is however not a real problem; while the product cannot so easily be made perfect, LSD content can certainly be reduced below the limits of ordinary detection equipment. Packaging of course helps with this, and people have been successful at sending LSD through the mail in any case.

Neither the purchase of LSD nor ergot alkaloids is truly necessary for the synthesis of AL-LAD. The high profit margin and limited market make it feasible to perform complex small-scale total syntheses from e.g. 4-bromoindole or tryptophan, which is attainable for actors in poorly-policed nations. Similar products (methoxetamine, CB-55940, Bromo-DragonFLY, 4-fluorotropacocaine), especially O-acetyl-psilocin, have been legitimately available for some time.

Shulgin is not the god of chemistry nor are his methods necessarily the most efficient.

 

[jason7]

Yeah, Shulgin doesn't seem to put a lot of thought into finding the cheapest and easiest method for making things. He just makes them in the most obvious way regardless of how inefficient it may be or how hard the reagents would be for non-chemists to get. Albert Hoffman was the guy for figuring out efficient synthetic methods. For instance the existing method of making psilocybin only gave a 20% yield in the later stages so he designed a much higher yielding method for that stage. Shulgin made so much different stuff that he didn't really have much time to spend on any particular one so he just used whatever procedures were currently available. Why put a lot of thought into it when you're only making a few grams of each substance and will probably never make them again? His method for MDMA used the nitrostyrene route to MDA and then methylation of the MDA. Nobody can even buy nitroethane anymore without the DEA down their neck. Others like that Rhodium guy have designed much better processes.

On the topic of AL-LAD, this paper by Andrew Hoffman and David Nichols states that the allyl compound was the one of all the analogues they made which was more potent than LSD itself. I had thought that the ethyl was the most potent but apparently not. So it seems we got lucky that the allyl lysergamide is the one that is not covered by the bans. They missed the best one.

 

[frontbluntt]

Recently took the dive, here is my trip report which I also posted in the TR section:

I took the AL-LAD laid on blotter with the name on one side and chemical structure on the other a couple days ago.

I decided to start pretty HR so I took only a little more than half a blotter, I'd say around 90-95 mcg.

8:44- Swallowed it without letting sit at all
9:24- First alerts, things started to look different, breathing, body high felt
9:49- Felt a very slight queeziness (I am extremely prone to nausea on psychs so this is as good as it gets for me)
10:00- Commencement of the giggles

Not much visual activity at this dose but I felt I was right on the brink of a good, full-blown trip.
Really fantastic body high and euphoria.

Could feel the peak start to come down around 3:00 or 3:30
Knocked myself out with benzos at about 4:00 because I had shit to do the next day, actually took a pretty hefty dose before I passed out.
Next day I felt pretty much the same way I do the day after acid, as one member once put it, I felt as though "I was missing a chromosome" haha. Nothing some wine and a good dinner didn't fix.

One really weird thing that happened was that the day after I tripped, I took a nap at around 3:00 or 4:00 pm for about an hour and when I woke up if I focused in on stuff I would start tripping. The weird thing is that the night when I actually tripped I had almost no visual activity but the next day after waking up from a short nap I was seeing little red dots on the bed sheet turn into insects and walk around and other crazy stuff. I'm not sure what could have caused this, it seemed closer to the type of visuals you get from delirium/psychosis than a psychedelic. If anyone has any thoughts on this phenomenon I'd love to hear it.

All in all I have to say it was very, very similar to acid. The only difference that stood out to me was the duration, but then again I took a tiny dose.
I also felt like I might have had more of a body high, but if I did it was in a good way because my body felt great. However, this could just be part of the trip and not necessarily due to the drug itself. Hard to say until I conduct more trials.

Next up once my tolerance is gone is LSZ at the same dose, and then I'll be exploring higher doses of each.
I spent this trip with my friend who was on LSZ at the time and he seemed to experience more or less the exact same trip I did, but I won't make any analysis of that chem until I try it myself sometime next week.

I pray to whoever is up there that even if these chems are made illegal, they replace the NBOMEs and DOx's as the active ingredient in counterfeit acid because in that case I honestly wouldn't mind, and might not even notice.

I highly recommend this chem:
-seemed almost totally physically benign. Felt natural, as opposed to foreign like 2C-Xs and no hypertension or amphetamine-ness, etc.
-felt very user friendly and recreational, while at the same time felt it had potential for amazing, spiritual journeys
-really no negatives to speak of and if you enjoy acid or any psychedelics really than this will hit the spot in a big way

 

[kingme]

having tested this last night, i feel this is indeed a fine substance.
took 175ug, orally. comeup took about 1h and the total duration of the trip was a bit over 8hours, with sleep atainable at around 9h. at this dose, the overall feeling was i took a bit too much, but still a managable +++

for me though, it felt different to lsd. not in a bad way or anything, just different, like 2cb is different from 2ci or e. you can feel they are somewhat related but at the same time not identical.

the good:
- awesome visuals, mostly OEV.
- great music appreciation, some sound distortion present
- headspace provided depth and a bit of mysticism to the whole experience
- tripping with other tastes - my sense of taste and though went haywire at times
- very nice comedown and afterglow
- overall feeling of benevolence, as if nothing would be able to scare me or put me in a bad mood
- made a lot of things hilarious. especially reading EADD threads

the bad:
- body high was nice, but the comeup felt a bit "feverish", like i was overheating a bit
- not a sexual substance
- acertain level of dissasociation was present... at times, i felt outside myself. a bit hard to explain really. this is also the reason this is not that much of a secual substance at least at this level.

id recommend this substance to anyone into psychedelics.

 

[jason7]

The feverish feeling may be the hyperthermia effect reported in rat experiments in the paper by Hoffman and Nichols I linked in an earlier post. They said it had about 3 times the hyperthermia effects of LSD, if I recall. Also more potent for uterine contractions. Don't know what that would feel like to a woman. You only reported the "fever" during the comeup so it seems not to be a major problem. I've also read about people reporting overheating with fairly high does of LSZ, at least one guy did.

You said 175 mics was a little more than you really needed (not in those words, I'm paraphrasing) and Frontbluntt said that 90 mics or so was a little less than he needed for a full trip. So it sounds like the 150 mic blotters are just about the ideal dose. I've read people saying that 200 or so mics did not make the trip noticeably better and that 300 was a little too intense. Seems like they got the does per blotter just about right and that one blotter is the way to go, unless you're a Timothy Leary type.

 

[kingme]

like all psychedelics, the right dose has less to do with weight and more with set setting expectations and tolerance
the hyperthermia might still have been present during the trip but perhaps i have not noticed it as much... might use a thermometer next time

 

[B9]

All in all I have to say it was very, very similar to acid. The only difference that stood out to me was the duration, but then again I took a tiny dose.
I also felt like I might have had more of a body high, but if I did it was in a good way because my body felt great. However, this could just be part of the trip and not necessarily due to the drug itself. Hard to say until I conduct more trials.

Next up once my tolerance is gone is LSZ at the same dose, and then I'll be exploring higher doses of each.
I spent this trip with my friend who was on LSZ at the time and he seemed to experience more or less the exact same trip I did, but I won't make any analysis of that chem until I try it myself sometime next week.

I pray to whoever is up there that even if these chems are made illegal, they replace the NBOMEs and DOx's as the active ingredient in counterfeit acid because in that case I honestly wouldn't mind, and might not even notice.

I'd have hoped that they'd continue with their policy of glasnost, I don't want anything sold as LSD to be anything other than LSD.

 

[eye.]

AL-LAD Trip Report 11/08/13

[T-00:00] Me and S take 75ug of AL-LAD on blotter at 4:20PM

[T-01:05] Another 75ug swallowed. Very slow definitely LSD feeling come up so far but more relaxed. Very mild OEVs and quite strong CEVs. Clear headed but noticeable psychedelic mindstate sets in.

[T-1:15] Strong metallic taste in mouth. S agrees he is in same state after trying to explain what LSD feels like to to him as he has not tried it. Both of us are very euphoric.

[T-1:27] Both noticing color distortions. Came on quite rapidly. Euphoria climbing. Things are breathing.

[T-1:48] Small pupil dilation. Come on strong now. Major color enhancement, strong trails. Its so uncanny in similarity to LSD. Text on phone swimming about.

[T-1:51] S: "Ive got tons of energy, could kick a football around if I wanted to" The combo with the joint we smoked has increased the euphoria 10 fold.

[T-1:55] Everything is goo. "Like walking on a water bed"

[T-2:17] Very hard to function normally. S just described acid shivers without knowing what there where previously. I get them infrequently throughout the trip. I saw a cloud flash neon colors. The edges of clouds are fractals that enlessly manifest.

[T-2:22] Had a woaaah moment looking at the intense patterns in the sky.

[T-2:40] Keep getting into little loops. Hahah, there is a little bit of mindfuckery going on.

[T-2:45] Hard +++. About the same stimulation as a very small amount of MDMA. Speech impediment pretty bad, S just said phils instead of pills and I cracked up. We both have twisted smiles on our faces.

[T-2:51] I can feel my body shifting with the music. Full on empathy with every little beat in the music. From dark and menacing to open and euphoric. S just tried to tell me this as I was writing it. Very much in sync.

[T-3:00] Very bad giggles. Laughing feels good. Even writing giggle makes me smile

[T-3:40] Hitting a peak I think. Insane closed eye visuals. Mine and S depth perception fucked, S tried to light a cigarette about 10cm away from the tip of it.

[T-4:25] Definitely hit peak and now plateau. Fully submersed in the trip. Will be difficult to update till later. Full lysergimide style trip much closer to LSD than LSA (HBWR/Morning glory seeds)

We messed about with glowsticks in the dark watching the solid trails and a friend came to say hello. Smoked some weed and chatted for a bit. Still a good +++ but a little more coherent now.

[T-5:40] S notices a decline in the effects.

[T-6:10] I notice the visuals start to withdraw.

[T-6:39] ++ now

[T-7:00] We smoke a large spliff and the OEVs come back full force. Trails get stronger and a glowstick balanced on a bottle starts to crackle with energy and warp.

[T-7:30] S goes home. I get in to mine have something to eat and play some xbox still tripping mildly.

[T-10:00] Fall asleep.

Day after I feel a bit tired but happy and satisfied. The only differences between this a LSD is the shorter duration, far less body load and easier to handle head trips (which could be seen as benefits.) I'd say 150ug of AL-LAD is the equivalent of 100ug of LSD roughly. Both me and S agree it's a good intro dose but we want to try higher. I plan on taking 225ug next time to see if the trip kicks up a notch. It has put itself alongside what I consider to be proper psychedelics: DMT, mushrooms, mescaline, LSD, 4-HO-MET, DOM and 2C-E with one light/medium dose, DOM did the same



Watch out! This is a keeper :D

 

[kingme]

i wouldnt say 150 al-lad is equivalent to 100ug LSD. i mean, 100ug of acid is a somewhat lowish dose no? even sensitive ol me doesnt get to +++ with that little acid. and 150 al-lad was definetly +++. i couldnt make out the horizon line for a good couple of hours...

 

[eye.]

Quoted 100ug LSD blotters I've had have got me to a strong +++ with no tolerance before. I think it's definatly less potent than LSD but not by much. Its all subjective anyway

 

[ZFC]

Yeah, Shulgin doesn't seem to put a lot of thought into finding the cheapest and easiest method for making things. He just makes them in the most obvious way regardless of how inefficient it may be or how hard the reagents would be for non-chemists to get. Albert Hoffman was the guy for figuring out efficient synthetic methods.

It's Albert HOFMANN, german for "man of court", not Hoffman or "man of hope". In all rigour it is not even pronounced quite the same. Many people get it wrong. To add some confusion, Nichols' co-author in your article IS a Hoffman.

For instance the existing method of making psilocybin only gave a 20% yield in the later stages so he designed a much higher yielding method for that stage. Shulgin made so much different stuff that he didn't really have much time to spend on any particular one so he just used whatever procedures were currently available. Why put a lot of thought into it when you're only making a few grams of each substance and will probably never make them again? His method for MDMA used the nitrostyrene route to MDA and then methylation of the MDA. Nobody can even buy nitroethane anymore without the DEA down their neck. Others like that Rhodium guy have designed much better processes.

On the topic of AL-LAD, this paper by Andrew Hoffman and David Nichols states that the allyl compound was the one of all the analogues they made which was more potent than LSD itself. I had thought that the ethyl was the most potent but apparently not. So it seems we got lucky that the allyl lysergamide is the one that is not covered by the bans. They missed the best one.

Keep in mind that because of the difficulty to access modern chemistry hardware/glassware (without making red lights blink in gov agencies), clandestine chemists often refer to textbook editions from several decades ago. So most of the LSD made lately is based on the ET method described in Tihkal. However, it has been argued that this AL-LAD (and LSZ) actually come from [EDIT, SELF-CENSURE, SORRY]

 

[jason7]

It came today. Took one. I can see that I'm not going to find what I was looking for. I sought to recapture what I felt as a youth when I took LSD but I see now that it was a moment in time and I can never go back. I'm done with psychedelics. There's nothing in them for me now and I'm putting my body through stress for no good reason.

I gotta chuck all those chems out. This research chemical stuff is friggin nuts.

 

[jason7]

Whew, that was pretty egregious. I'm back to normal now. It's something like acid but I didn't get the kind of visuals I got from that. I felt uncomfortable in my own skin, as they say. Kind of agitated. Then I got all melancholy and shit. I don't think I can even get high off psychs like I used to. Wasn't any real nausea or anything. I just didn't find it enjoyable, that's all, others might. It was only like 4 hours. Now it's just a slight lingering effect. Guess one hit was a pretty light dose but I wouldn't really want to get more agitated than that. There were also tremors involved, as usual.

Hyperthermia still going at about 6 hours after taking. Still pretty warm even with the AC on at a lower setting than normal. Don't take this stuff without AC. I'm feeling alright aside from the heat effects. Pretty light drug effects at this point. I can tell I took something but that's about it.

I'll probably try the LSZ. This one didn't impress me. I think the allyl group is screwing up the acidness. LSZ has the same methyl group as LSD so maybe it'll be closer to the real deal. I think the allyl is making to much hyperthermia and cutting the psychedelia.

 

[Ismene]

Never got any hyperthermia on it - are you sure it wasn't all in your imagination?

Obviously if you're prone to melancholy when tripping you're better off avoiding psychedelics.

 

[Si Dread]

I'm with you Is, sounds like your head was not entirely straight for tripping Jason, I'm afraid. Obviously we'll assume you have the correct product because you have LSz too.

I'm not certain I'd advise another trip on the LSz just yet but if you decide to do so consider using some relaxation techniques (quite, dark room, deep breathing etc) between ingestion & first alerts. On the odd ocassions that I attempt relaxation prior to tripping I find myself in a much more comfortable, chilled headspace when the trip peaks. Once that point is reached I'm happy hopping up & playing music, going out walking, going for pizza (a strangely common trip activity for me).

If you're in the PERFECT frame of mind for tripping & you know it, I'm sure little can go wrong on an average or low dose of either Al or LSz, but if you're not entirely straight in the head, the techniques I suggest may help reduce any discomfort. I suspect the hyperthermia was related to your mind-set which is why I thing that MDMA users who panic (I'm not suggesting you paniced, but you didn't sound too comfortable) are far more likely to suffer the adverse effects of increased body temperature caused by MDMA.

Some people just don't suit certain compounds, & it may be that your time with psyches is done. Either way, best wishes to you! Sorry you didn't enjoy it

 

[ZFC]

MDMA users who panic

Is that a thing?

 

[2002Tii]

Is that a thing?

Yes it is