The Big & Dandy AL-LAD Thread - Part 1

[connexion23]

test results from ecstasydata.org

http://www.ecstasydata.org/view.php?id=2829

 

[DocGonzo]

Thanks for that connexion. Looks good.

 

[any major dude]

Had some of this in the stash for a few weeks now, looks like I may finally get the opportunity this weekend, definitely excited!

Thinking about goin with 200-300mcg.
Is one definitely too obviously high for polite society or still pretty manageable? Not that I would waste such an experience on polite society

 

[Cone]

Wouldn't it be theoretically possible to store (indefinitely) LAD in an absolutely air-tight container with a dessicant flushed with an easily acquirable noble gas...say... Argonn?

As long as its stored away from heat + UV, wouldn't this be the ideal way to store such a fragile molecule?

 

[Just A Guy]

Wouldn't it be theoretically possible to store (indefinitely) LAD in an absolutely air-tight container with a dessicant flushed with an easily acquirable noble gas...say... Argonn?

As long as its stored away from heat + UV, wouldn't this be the ideal way to store such a fragile molecule?

I'd say so.

 

[jason7]

Yeah I thought of the stability factor after I posted that about stockpiling. Having it on blotter paper isn't helping any, since it gives it a very large surface area. Tabs would keep longer but I guess they can't sell actual tablets. They could say that blotters aren't actually individual doses of a substance, since it's one continuous sheet. It also makes it convenient to ship in the mail. You wouldn't know there's anything in there other than a letter.

I suppose if you put plastic wrap around the sheet it would keep air out. Hard to say which if any plastics would react with it to cause degradation. Cellophane would probably be safe, since it's just cellulose like the blotter itself. You have to keep halogens away from it. You wouldn't want to wash a blotter down with chlorinated tap water, for instance. Halogens deactivate LSD on contact, apparently. It'd be nice if they had a powder form available, maybe cut with something to make it convenient to handle. Powder in sealed amber glass ampules would be good. It would be stable for years.

 

[ZFC]

It'd be nice if they had a powder form available, maybe cut with something to make it convenient to handle. Powder in sealed amber glass ampules would be good. It would be stable for years.

Powder has been available on the market for several weeks now.

 

[Repulse]

A few sceptical observations. I would love this to be true, but I fear this is simply another NBOMe variant, or another super-potent halogen-based psychedelic with an added functional group. There are tons of them out there - just link dive on wikipedia, and you will be astounded.

Now, for the scepsis.
Having read TiHKAL cover-to-cover, I remember this analog being particularly interesting.

Here is the entry: http://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/tihkal/tihkal01.shtml

To avoid TL;DR:

From the commentary section:
This is one of the several very potent compounds in a large series of 5-alkylated analogues of nor-LSD. Most of them proved to be less potent than LSD, and considerably less dramatic.

Very intriguing indeed, however, when you look into the synthesis, and what it requires, this strikes me:

Excerpt from the first step of the 'AL-LAD' SYNTHESIS section:
SYNTHESIS: To a solution of 66 mg nor-LSD (see under 'ETH-LAD')

Now, I do not know how the legislature for nor-LSD is, globally, or in the western world, but let's let that sit there for a moment, while we take a peek at what the synthesis for 'ETH-LAD' requires.
-
Excerpt from the first step of the 'ETH-LAD' SYNTHESIS section:
SYNTHESIS : A solution of 0.323 g of lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD) in 10 mL CHCl3 was diluted with 70 mL CCl4 and ...

Okay, well, so you need a more potent, completely illegal - all over the world drug - to make AL-LAD.

To add to the already seriously bad grounds for producing this drug, Shulgin adds another little problem in the extensive commentary section:
I suspect that this material is rather unstable in solution, even as the tartrate in dilute saline, although I cannot guess why that should be. A few months in the dark, at zero degrees and in the absence of air, led to a very real drop in potency, measured by a control assay of a freshly made solution of the same nominal concentration.


So. Either someone found a different route to synth this, or they defy law, logic and have a killer team of fast-working chemists, turning a degrading precursor into AL-LAD before it degrades in their hands.

Any comments on this?
I hate to be the hater, but it just doesn't make sense to me.

 

[psood0nym]

^I thought there was talk of an alternate synthesis, such that no residual LSD would be in syntheses of AL-LAD. Otherwise, yeah, small but detectable amounts of LSD are being sold along side AL-LAD. But the test results didn't indicate its presence, so I assume that's confirmatory evidence that an alternate synth has been found. I hate to say that absence of evidence is evidence of absence, though.

 

[jason7]

No it's real. I was reading a forum where they allow vendors and they give out free samples in return for reviews and somebody tested it with the LSD reagent and it was positive. They can sell Al-LAD in the UK because it's an allyl group and not an alkyl. Only N alkyl lysergamides are banned in the UK. This is an allyl lysergamide.

Thanks to ZFC for mentioning that powder form is available. I'll keep an eye out for it but so far I've only seen the blotters. I thought of a way to store blotters long term. You could put the sheet in a vacuum freezer bag then put the bag in another lightproof container and keep it in the freezer.

 

[Toucan]

having tried it this is definitely not another NBOMe
speaking of storage, oxygen absorbers are the way to go

 

[jason7]

What's an oxygen absorber? Those plastic bags that keep vegetables from spoiling? Since you mentioned NBOMEs, I was just viewing a video of a David Nichols talk and he said that 25I NBOME is NOT psychedelic. here's the video; http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ZJtdZUy1LYE

He says it in the part starting at 22:10. He shows several chemical structures and says which are psychedelic and which aren't. He pointed out 2CI and TCB-2 as being psychedelic and then pointed out what is clearly 25I NBOME as being non-psychedelic. He's right, it isn't. That shit was not at all like LSD. I didn't get any real visuals, just somewhat screwed up vision, like if you take too much antihistamine or something. I could tell it was a drug effect but no way was it what I would call psychedelic. It actually felt more like being poisoned than getting high. Now I know why. It's not a psych, it's something else, some kind of serotonin receptor full agonist that appears to cause mostly adrenergic effects. I don't know what it would be useful for, but it sure isn't any good for getting high.

Nichols also says it again in the part starting at about 25:00, but this time he uses a picture of 25I NBOH instead of NBOMe. So he definitely didn't just make a mistake the first time.

As Nichols explains, LSD is not even a strong serotonin receptor agonist but only a weak partial agonist. That explains why you don't get all those crude adrenergic effects like with PEAs. You get the psych effects without the shit effects. I seriously think LSD and its analogues are the only psychs that exist that won't make me feel sick and will give me real visuals. LSD being a weak agonist must be why you can take huge doses and not have a seizure or anything like you would with NBOMEs. Probably why there's less vasoconstriction too.

 

[bloodshed344]

What's an oxygen absorber? Those plastic bags that keep vegetables from spoiling? Since you mentioned NBOMEs, I was just viewing a video of a David Nichols talk and he said that 25I NBOME is NOT psychedelic. here's the video; http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ZJtdZUy1LYE

He says it in the part starting at 22:10. He shows several chemical structures and says which are psychedelic and which aren't. He pointed out 2CI and TCB-2 as being psychedelic and then pointed out what is clearly 25I NBOME as being non-psychedelic. He's right, it isn't. That shit was not at all like LSD. I didn't get any real visuals, just somewhat screwed up vision, like if you take too much antihistamine or something. I could tell it was a drug effect but no way was it what I would call psychedelic. It actually felt more like being poisoned than getting high. Now I know why. It's not a psych, it's something else, some kind of serotonin receptor full agonist that appears to cause mostly adrenergic effects. I don't know what it would be useful for, but it sure isn't any good for getting high.

Nichols also says it again in the part starting at about 25:00, but this time he uses a picture of 25I NBOH instead of NBOMe. So he definitely didn't just make a mistake the first time.

As Nichols explains, LSD is not even a strong serotonin receptor agonist but only a weak partial agonist. That explains why you don't get all those crude adrenergic effects like with PEAs. You get the psych effects without the shit effects. I seriously think LSD and its analogues are the only psychs that exist that won't make me feel sick and will give me real visuals. LSD being a weak agonist must be why you can take huge doses and not have a seizure or anything like you would with NBOMEs. Probably why there's less vasoconstriction too.

25I visuals are nothing like deliriant visuals, Ive experienced both. 25I visuals cant compare to anything else I can think of. However I'll agree it's not a proper psychedelic, it's still very psychedelic. David Nichols is just being a douche by saying that. Also your post is pretty inflammatory and 25I has no adrenergic action as far as I can tel.

 

[Toucan]

I can't say I was hugely impressed with NBOMe visuals. It was very visual, but more a kind of 'repeating' of what was already in my vision than real psychedelia...

 

[bloodshed344]

I can't say I was hugely impressed with NBOMe visuals. It was very visual, but more a kind of 'repeating' of what was already in my vision than real psychedelia...

Yeah I can agree with that, like I say cant compare to anything else I can think of. In its most fantastic visual performance, 25I created clouds of pink fog wherever I was looking and it was like it was reflecting in on itself. Pretty psychedelic. Nothing like 25C-NBOME though, which gave me intense colors flashing and swimming and everything morphing like snakes. Now, those visuals were real psychedelia, in some kind of acid-washed-out cracky what-the-fuck-am-I-doing-to-my-receptors kind of way.

 

[Repulse]

25I visuals are nothing like deliriant visuals, Ive experienced both. 25I visuals cant compare to anything else I can think of. However I'll agree it's not a proper psychedelic, it's still very psychedelic. David Nichols is just being a douche by saying that. Also your post is pretty inflammatory and 25I has no adrenergic action as far as I can tel.

25I felt VERY psychedelic to me, both mentally and visually. The visuals were breathing, coming in waves, and a positive vibe to them. Colours were greatly enhanced, and it felt wonderful. I've had my fair share of both acid, 2C-X's and other RC psychedelics, so though these comments are merely anecdotal, I felt what I felt.

As for the the adrenergic action, the jury is still out. The stimulation didn't strike me as being there at all, or at least it didn't bother me, but I've had friends complain that they couldn't sleep for hours after taking a sub-active dose in tab form.

 

[The Shadow Self]

One thing leads me and many others to believe that the AL-LAD circulating is, indeed, AL-LAD, not the least of which is that this compound is VERY MUCH orally active, something Nbomes are most certainly not. This being evidenced by the fact that you can simply swallow AL and it works, whereas Nbomes obviously don't. Not only that, but having done both Nbomes and this mystery compound, which I do believe to be AL-LAD, this feels NOTHING like the Nbome experience. Very much apples and oranges. I do believe the new route to synthesis may have been discovered. Either way, AL-LAD at medium to high doses is incredible. One of the best compounds I've ever done, bar none.

 

[jason7]

25I visuals are nothing like deliriant visuals, Ive experienced both. 25I visuals cant compare to anything else I can think of. However I'll agree it's not a proper psychedelic, it's still very psychedelic. David Nichols is just being a douche by saying that. Also your post is pretty inflammatory and 25I has no adrenergic action as far as I can tel.

Adrenergic action would be things like vasoconstriction and nausea. Do you deny that NBOMEs are quite vasoconstrictive? They also make me nauseous every time. While I did get some sort of visuals from them, it wasn't anything interesting or beautiful, no tracers, no actual structures or landscape scenes. All I ever got was messed up vision, as I would describe it. It did feel somewhat similar to LSD but without real visuals or any kind of mood lift or euphoria. LSD has potent dopamine effects in the second phase of the trip, which starts after about the first 4 hours. The dopamine is what makes you feel good, like with MDMA. It can also make you paranoid and stuff but that's the price you pay for the pleasure I guess. I think the AL-LAD may have less of that paranoia inducing effect. It apparently doesn't make you as sleepless as LSD so the dopamine effects must be less so AL-LAD may be an improvement over LSD in that respect.

Incidentally, I think the reason for the emergence of these LSD analogues is due to the banning of NBOMEs in the UK. They had a good business going with the NBOME blotters so they had to find a different legal compound that they could put on blotters I guess. It's actually odd that they didn't make this stuff earlier but I suppose they made more profit from the NBOMEs, being dirt cheap to make, so they didn't have a good reason to pay more to make Al-LAD and LSZ. Now they do. Anyway, whatever the actual reasons involved, I'm just glad it finally happened and I also think the NBOME ban was appropriate. That stuff does no good to anybody and can seriously harm or kill people. I did not get one positive effect from 25C or 25I. It made me keep cycling through TV channels trying to find something that wasn't irritating to me, and I could never find one.

 

[Folley]

One thing leads me and many others to believe that the AL-LAD circulating is, indeed, AL-LAD, not the least of which is that this compound is VERY MUCH orally active, something Nbomes are most certainly not. This being evidenced by the fact that you can simply swallow AL and it works, whereas Nbomes obviously don't. Not only that, but having done both Nbomes and this mystery compound, which I do believe to be AL-LAD, this feels NOTHING like the Nbome experience. Very much apples and oranges. I do believe the new route to synthesis may have been discovered. Either way, AL-LAD at medium to high doses is incredible. One of the best compounds I've ever done, bar none.

It's been lab tested as someone mentioned earlier

http://www.ecstasydata.org/view.php?id=2829


Sounds like they are quite sure it is AL-LAD based on all available evidence, but are not 100% positive as they don't have a proper reference for the drug.

 

[jason7]

It's definitely as advertised, unless you use a vendor who hasn't been around long and been proven reliable. Then it could be just about anything. The few companies I'm aware of simply used labs that are licensed to handle lysergic acid compounds. It wasn't even made in China as I understand it. Probably getting hard to import chems from China into the UK these days. Not really any way you could pass anything else off as a lysergamide with LSD type effects. No non-lysergamide could fool any experienced user. If it's not AL-LAD the only other thing it could be is LSD itself. The companies would be quickly exposed as frauds.