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The Big and Dandy AMT Thread - Part 1 (Archived)

I tried AMT again over the weekend, overall it was very pleasant. There was never any problem communicating with people not tripping, which is not common for me. There wasnt even any paranoia for the whole trip (except being slightly uneasy in the doctors coming onto 25mg).

I dosed 25mg at 10:00 and then 20mg at 11:45. Still not as psychedelic as I was hoping, I feel around 55-60mg will be a good level. Around 8pm I took 2mg alprazolam as I had work the next day at 5:30 and was still a while off sleeping. I was a little tired the next day, but have been in an excellent mood since and have lots more energy
 
I'd like to relate a somewhat embarrassing tale of the consequences of binging on AMT.

Last weekend (as in 8-10 days ago, not this just-passed weekend), I was indulging in AMT somewhat irresponsibly, as I ended up using it Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. This is not the first time such a thing has happened, and it has never had any real noticeable consequence on me later on. However, I was feeling quite compulsive and so I used more AMT each day from Monday through Thursday. That makes the total number of days using it in a row a staggering 7. And due to tolerance, the dose needed increased each day. Please believe me when I say that I am fully aware of how stupid/dangerous such a thing is to do, and in fact I was at the time. My desire for pleasure overcame my common sense.

So anyway, that put my consumption of AMT that week at well over half a gram, perhaps even nearing a gram - I did not keep accurate count as the week went on.

Anyway, the AMT was serving its intended purpose very well all the way up until Thursday. That day, I was dead tired, and the AMT did not really pick me up. I redosed it later in the day in hopes that I'd feel better, but I felt worse. By the end of the day I felt slightly sick and dizzy and decidedly not good, rather alarming, really (no surprise). Although my heart rate and stuff were not particularly elevated. I just felt alarmingly off in the head, and woozy.

The next day I woke up and felt absolutely horrendous. Zero energy of any kind, very depressed and sad mood. It felt like the weight of the world was on my shoulders. And also, I had the dreaded MDMA brain zaps... more intensely than I've ever had them from MDMA. I mean, this was really bad. I was useless the whole day. Depending on what I was doing and the position of my head, among probably many other factors, I received strong brain zaps at least twice a minute, often pulsating with many little zaps one after another with no break in between. It got to the point where at any random time, I would be unable to focus on anything except the zapping feeling that would go on for several seconds, which made me feel like my brain was malfunctioning. I nearly collapsed several times when I happened to be walking around when they hit. Thinking about them brought it on about twice as strong, but it was hard not to think about it because when my mind was off it, it was still only a matter of a minute or so before they happened again anyway.

These zaps got worse as the day progressed. At night, I ate a meal, and about 2 hours after that I started to get extremely dizzy and nauseous, and ended up throwing up all of my food. I felt terrible. When I went to bed, I still received head zaps. Whenever I closed my eyes, within a short time, I would suddenly feel different, and I'd open my eyes and realize I was totally paralyzed from sleep paralysis. It was very, very strong and consisted of a seemingly massive weight on my body and chest/lungs (painless but constricting), combined with a neverending rush of brain zaps that was extremely frightening because it went on for so long and was so forceful. it felt like I was being pushed down a tunnel or something... I was getting really worried about myself because it would not stop as long as I was paralyzed, but I was unable to push my muscles through the paralysis except to lightly shake with strain. I figured out that I could gradually ease my right leg over to the edge of the bed with enough of an effort (centimeter by centimeter), and once I finally got it off, it fell off the bed and it immediately broke the spell, and I could fully move again. This happened a few times, and eventually I found a position that I could sleep in where it didn't happen.

The next morning I felt better, but still afflicted, especially emotionally. I eventually decided to take a 15mg dose (upper-end antidepressant dose for me, factoring in tolerance from the binge), because I felt so emotionally unbalanced. Somewhat surprisingly, this dose worked exactly as intended. It transformed all of my bad feelings and physical symptoms and made me feel fine again, relatively euphoric just because life is good, and energetic.

This is the second day since then and the symptoms have not returned and I feel fine, just like usual. I had some incredibly vivid dreams after the binge, which have continued, but other than that I seem to bear no trace. Hopefully things do not come crashing down on me within the next week.

Anyway, I realize this was retarded of me and I learned (remembered) some valuable lessons, namely to keep things in moderation, and that just because something seems like it's harmless does not mean it is. I hesitated even posting this because it's rather embarrassing, but then I realized that it doesn't matter, and it may help someone, sometime to know that overuse of AMT can cause some of the same symptoms as overuse of MDMA (or in my case, any use whatsoever).

The symptoms I experienced from this were worse than any I've experienced after MDMA, by a decent margin. of course, keep in mind I've never taken MDMA more than two days in a row, and it gives me brain zaps and much worse depression than this was after even a single use aty a responsible dose.
 
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^ Never had that with AMT, but then I never have the urge to redose with AMT. I generally feel satisfied after the experience.

Must say though that the entactogenic effects of AMT aren't that much less than MDMA for me and it comes with added bonuses (it turns more psychedelic later & doesn'y cause crippling depression like MDMA; well in me it does). That in itself is a plus point
 
Yeah, I learned my lesson that week. I don't really get an urge to redose during an AMT experience, just the next day when I think to myself how the previous day had been awesome.

I still feel just fine. In fact, I feel a bit better than usual for mid-week. The intense dreams have continued. Last night I decided to take some vitamin B-6, B-12, and melatonin (3mg) before going to bed. It took me longer than usual to fall asleep, and I sort of drifted in and out for a little while. Then I got up (dreaming without realizing it), and found it not particularly strange that instead of my fiance sleeping next to me, I was alone in bed and my dad was sleep on another bed in the corner of the room. I got up because my right eye was really, really dry, to the point where it felt like my eyelids were sticking to the eyeball. This dream (which I did not yet realize was a dream) was so vivid that it was utterly indistinguishable from reality in every way. Every moment was spent as a moment awake, with idle thoughts spinning around, and all manner of different sensations coming from the environment to experience.

So anyway, I went down the hall to the bathroom, and looked in the mirror. What I saw repulsed me! My eyelids were folded under, with the eyelashes and outer skin up against my bone-dry eyeball. So I started unfolding the skin and trying to flip my eyelids back to their proper position, which for some reason caused my eye socket to sort of fall away. Suddenly I could see around the eye socket and into the sides of my eyeball, and into the interior of my skull. Obviously this alarmed me greatly, as it seemed entirely real. Some blood started to leak out, as well as (for some reason) a minty greenish-blue liquid, which I felt as a burning, cold minty sensation aside from the extremely aggravating dry eye feeling.

So I did what anyone would do I suppose in such a weird situation... I freaked out a bit. I woke my dad up, just beginning to wonder why he was there at all, as well as why my fiance was NOT there. He acted as if I had bothered him several times already that night/morning, but he saw my eye and agreed with me that we needed to go to the hospital.

All this time, I was becoming more and more conscious and aware. I started thinking that I had woken up in another dimension or something. My apartment was different everywhere except for in the bathroom. My fiance and kitties were nowhere to be found. It was all much too real for me to consider it a dream, even though my eye did not actually hurt (but was incredibly irritated... I can still feel that horrible dryness, like my eyelids were turned inside out). I looked back in the mirror, and noticed that my grossly exposed eye was even more grossly exposed, like I had a birth defect or something. I traced the distorted lines and cavities of my face, and they were smooth, no wounds, just a horrible malformation. Then my pupils turned white, and I was no longer able to tell them apart from the rest of my eyeball, although I could still see.

As you can imagine, I was starting to get really scared, because I didn't want to be in a different dimension with my face falling apart. You've got to understand that at this point I was really freaking out, terrified. It was 100% exactly like being awake, except that it was a foreign world that I didn't want to be stuck in. I considered that it could be a dream, but I am very rarely able to dream where I am fully aware to the extent that I can question whether or not I'm dreaming. I tried all the tricks I could think of to wake up, but to no avail. So I sort of gave up on that idea with a huge sinking feeling.

So anyway, now that I'm no longer dreaming I have forgotten some of the details. The next part I remember well is being with my mom and dad and little brother, and for some reason one or more of them was continually making a reason to not go to the hospital, despite the continual degradation of my eye area. We were in some sort of large mansion, and at some point I ended up in the bathroom, where I watched the outside part of my eye (actually, both of them at this point) turn a dead black color, while the pupils remained white.

I had previously mentioned to my dad that I had woken up in some other dimension, but he just kept giving me weird looks about it and rolling his eyes. It seemed that my family thought I was going crazy, and/or that I was on drugs. More and more, they were telling me that I needed to stop doing these drugs because I was going crazy. Another dimension?? Come on... (that was their reaction, with a fair amount of scorn and annoyance at having to put up with my raving).

As time went on, I more and more gave up the idea that this was a dream, because it just got more and more real and vivid (even though so many details are now faded, after hours of being awake and working). I really and truly began to despair. My fiance was seemingly not even existant in this realm, nor were my kitties. My face was falling apart. And to top it off, it was 2:00 in the afternoon and I hadn't made it in to work or called (funny that I was concerned about that!). So I went back to my mom, who was sitting around in some large lobby of this mansion/hotel, and just broke down. I told her that I HAD fallen asleep last night in another world, and woken up here, and that I just wanted to go home. Then he totally changed her demeanor and looked at me and very seriously said, "Well, what is existence, if not your perception?"

At that moment I felet a sense of peace wash over me and I gently closed my eyes (still decaying out of my head or whatever they were doing). I opened them a moment later, and I was utterly relieved to find that I was laying in my bed, next to my fiance, with my kitties nearby, to the just rising sun coming in the window. Let me tell you, I've never been so glad to wake up! Although it was like opening my eyes after closing them, not like I had been asleep. I was fully awake just as I had been in my dream. As I opened my eyes, the horrible dry feeling faded steadily until my eye felt normal. I raced to the bathroom to look, and fortunately my eyes looked like my normal eyes, no grotesque gaping holes with minty fluid or blood leaking out. And most importantly, the people and animals whom I love are here. It took a little while to really believe it had been a dream, and I didn't go back to sleep because it wasn't too long before my alarm was going to go off.

It was definitely, without any question at all, the most vivid and conscious dream I've had in my life. In retrospect it was fascinating because I've never felt so awake and alive and fully conscious before in a dream, nor have I ever more believed that I had awoken into another reality than that I was dreaming. The dream itself was disturbing, unpleasant, and filled with anxiety, but I'm still glad to have had it happen. As long as it doesn't become routine. :|

So anyway, I just wanted to add this as a follow-up and as an example of the kind of dream enhancement that can happen with AMT, especially combined with melatonin. Melatonin itself has never worked more than the merest fraction of the way this combination works. But whenever I take melatonin on the day or two or three after a strong AMT experience, it creates these amazingly vivid dreamscapes. Some have been pleasant, and some not. But there they are.
 
Thanks for sharing that Xorxoth. I had a bad experience a couple of months ago involving irresponsible amt dosing ang sleep deprivation. I had been redosing whenever the amt would wear off and ended up awake for three days. Then I stupidly took some benzedrex inhalers (4 total, divided 2 and 2 twelve hours apart), which caused a mini psychotic break. I literally saw people that weren't there and was convinced someone was trying to steal my car. Heaps of lothes in my garage morphed into people- and I was talking to them as well. I just needed to sleep really- and was fine after a long nap- but I was very depressed for about a week afterward.

Now, I don't want to throw the blame on the amt exclusively- I know the propylhexadrine was the final catalyst in the equation; but the fact of being up for several days, being under nourished during that time, dehydrated, and utterly exhausted- was the direct result of the amt use.

That is my own fault, I know. But the point is that no chemical should be redosed over and over again- and I consider myself lucky that I didn't permanently screw myself up (the thought had crossed my mind during the psychotic phase, scary). I would absolutely do amt again- but with the benefit of having a learned a hard lesson.
 
Ugh, benzedrex (propylhexedrine). That stuff felt absolutely disgusting to me. I almost vomit just thinking about it. Never have I had so many side effects from a stimulant. I think I wrote something about my experience with it... actually, I think I never finished the report and I should. It involved a fairly psychotic experience with hallucinations similar to something like dimenhydrinate, and talking to my car seat repeatedly thinking it was my fiance. But talking as if responding to something she said. Chilling, really. Look for a report soon, as I've been wanting to finish writing it and share the experience.

The thing is, with AMT, I can still sleep fine, and do. I think I just was really fucking with my serotonin to a dangerous extent.
 
Yeah, the hallucinations were out there. Never before have I talked to people that weren't there. I'm sure the benzedrex was the main culprit, but I wouldn't have done those if my judgement hadn't been severely impaired from sleep deprivation.
 
I have trouble falling asleep on doses less than 10mg of AMT (even at T+14 hours).
 
I ended up apologizing to zophen for whatever I did while in his tent

You didn't really do anything except move about two feet in half an hour. 8o :D

I, being incredibly benevolent, decided to overlook it this once. ;)




Anyway as to AMT ( my reason for being in the thread after all) I previously basically got nothing off it, I assume something to do with tolerance issues ?
However upon retrying at said festival I found it to be pleasant although too much stimulant ketamine alcohol and cannabis was consumed in conjunction to give anything other than a basic thumbs up. I shall try it again without being impaired with other substances, and I fully expect to be IMPRESSED. :)
 
I never realised I was smiling , I better get a grip on that quickly.
 
any chemical that makes your facial muscles sore from smiling too much is a good chemical on at least some perspective, imo.
 
Does anyone other than Xorkoth have experience combining AMT and alcohol? There's nothing on Erowid.

Just wondering if there are likely to be any interactions between a low dose 10-20mg AMT and a few drinks?
 
I had 3 beers about 2 or 3 hours before taking 40mg, didint notice any difference in effects
 
Just FYI, my last dose of AMT is going be consumed today, and then it's gone, and no more shall enter my bloodstream. It's just too good, and my addictive personality can't moderate it. Wish me luck and all... a break from everything is long, long overdue. And I've got lots of things I need to work on apart from drugs and consciousness exploration.

A word of advice, too. All of you out there who have addictive personalities (be honest), I recommend that you never start taking psychedelics regularly. It's a trap that takes a long time to fall into, and in the meantime it feels so right. If you ever find yourself slowly increasing your rate of use, just stop doing that. I can assure you that you will come to wish you'd used more moderation while it wasn't a hassle to do so.

In the past 6 months, AMT has changed from being a nice new substance to experiment with, to my vice and my favorite drug of all time. I've been experiencing MDMA-like aftereffects from it, but with an emphasis on dreaming and sleep paralysis. Interestingly, the day or two or three after I've used AMT a lot, my dreams become incredibly vivid. An example of that was last night, when I had a dream that was barely distinguishable from reality, that involved performing some sort of group ritual at the end of the world (which occurred during a fantastically horrifying storm). Curiously, many of my dreams in this manner have involved the end of the world, and also entering parallel realities which I could not escape from, while being 100% lucid. The dreams are always tyerrifying at some point and could probably be considered nightmares, although ultimately I consider them to be fascinating and a positive side effect.

The negative symptoms of the AMT aftereffects include powerful brain zaps, depression while awake, and general anxiety about things. So far I haven't waited long enough between doses to see how long those things will last, but I've had it last up to 3 days. What I do know is that it only first started happening when I took AMT 7 days in a row in increasing dosages, until the 7th day when I felt totally destroyed physically and mentally.

Anyway, just some ramblings from me. I both look forward to and dread the break I am forced into now. I just wanted to supply my experience with abuse of AMT and the kinds of effects it can have. And when it's over, I'll write a full retrospective report.
 
Xorkoth said:
...

A word of advice, too. All of you out there who have addictive personalities (be honest), I recommend that you never start taking psychedelics regularly. It's a trap that takes a long time to fall into, and in the meantime it feels so right. If you ever find yourself slowly increasing your rate of use, just stop doing that. I can assure you that you will come to wish you'd used more moderation while it wasn't a hassle to do so.
...


QFT. Been there, done that. worried my GF sick. This was with mushrooms and 2c-*, but basically the same.
 
Xorkoth said:
In the past 6 months, AMT has changed from being a nice new substance to experiment with, to my vice and my favorite drug of all time. (...) The negative symptoms of the AMT aftereffects include powerful brain zaps, depression while awake, and general anxiety about things. So far I haven't waited long enough between doses to see how long those things will last, but I've had it last up to 3 days. What I do know is that it only first started happening when I took AMT 7 days in a row in increasing dosages, until the 7th day when I felt totally destroyed physically and mentally. (...)

Like with any drug, if you do the drug too frequently and/or at too high doses, it is not you doing the drug but the drug doing you. Psychedelics are no exception, especially one as initially user-friendly as AMT.

But what I just cannot understand is how anyone can go so far down the rabbit-hole with substances that last so long and have such powerful and long-lasting after-effects. To me such an undertaking is far too taxing both physically and mentally... there comes a point when there seems to be no difference between the physical and the mental anymore even....they're closely connected anyway. I just can't seem to use drugs so frequently and often. When I use even half as much as you, Xorkoth, for instance, I find myself exhausted, irritable, miserable, etc,. both physically and mentally. my adrenals go crazy and my mind gets restless and I just can't take it.

I am particularly prone to abusing easy-to-use (and hence to easy to abuse, too) entactogens/empathogens ... methyone is one that did it to me, and 4FA is another that did it to me for a short while. With methylone, which is rather forgiving, it took me months to realise I had some kind of problem, and I was only using 2-3 times a week, many times less often... but this kind of use lasted a long time. With 4FA it only took me 3 weeks and using it around 6 times to realise that like all drugs it is no panacea and it has 2 sides to it.........

why would proper psychedelics be any different? they might be more 'holistic' in the type of experience they offer, but they're still a "borrowed time", not self, not me, not mine. They're tools if used wisely, sacraments even if used with reverence - but once they become something one is accustomed to and takes for granted, tools turn into toys and once one knows or thinks one knows how to ride the waves, they rear their truly ugly head (beyond the initial Fear trips) and all sorts of difficulties can arise.

Use wisely, use with reverence, not as a daily entertainment guide.
 
AMT seems like a horrible drug to choose to use repeatedly, daily, whatever. Seeing as it releases as much SE as MDMA.

I've used different psychedelics for daily periods of time, but those have always been DMT, mushrooms, or DPT. And lately, ketamine.

The latter seems to have a bit more of a bite to it than the former 'proper' psychedelics. Wowsers that stuff is a bit compulsive! 8(
 
I too have gone down the road of frequent use, and it's amazing how much I agree with xorkoth & ximot - everything down to a "t". I've worked out my resulting anxiety issues with very, very occasional(a few times per year) medium-ish doses of LSD. What kinda freaks me out is how xorkoth had the same lucid end-of-the-world dreams that I had with daily dosing of AMT, freakin weird mang.
 
I took ~10mg AMT yesterday and noticed a few things.

One positive thing I noticed about AMT is that the stimulation overrides the burnout from Cannabis. :)

Drinking after a low dose doesn't seem to cause any problems, but does increase the side effects (headache, GI upset etc).

I don't seem to have any problems sleeping after a low dose and my GOD the dreams!

Something else that I get from AMT that I only noticed with MDxx is that sometimes I will get weird visual flashes when I move my eyes. The background of my vision is a fleshy orange pink color and there are shiny purple/blue specks everywhere. 8)

Does anyone know what causes this? From s_s's post I think the common denominator is 5HT release.

A bit off topic of AMT, but I also agree about ketamine. I got a 250mg sample about a month ago, and although I still have about 40mg left and I have never taken more than 40mg at one time, I can see how it could be very habit forming. I'm still at the stage where I love it and find it very useful, but if I had a few grams of it laying around I could foresee problems arising...

Xorkoth stay away from it! ;)
 
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