The "Best" Anxiolytic?

[mal3volent]

SSRIs are fucking crazy. I went through like 3 of them, then switched to SNRIs, then NDRIs... 2 hellish years of my life. Your depression is cured because you're so wrapped up in the side effects,

 

[Cream Gravy?]

SSRIs are fucking crazy. I went through like 3 of them, then switched to SNRIs, then NDRIs... 2 hellish years of my life. Your depression is cured because you're so wrapped up in the side effects,

For real. Psychiatry is still in the dark ages right now, SSRIs are going to be looked at in the same way we view lobotomies 100 years from now.

 

[Inds]

Kanna. It is a natural SSRI but surely has a different mechanism of action to the chemical SSRI's and likely does not interact in the same way with the same things certainly not in all cases I expect at least.

In an in vitro study, a high-mesembrine Sceletium extract showed monoamine releasing activity by upregulation of vesicular monoamine transporter 2 (VMAT2).[7]
^That makes me particularly nervous. A natural SSRI as well as a natural MAOI.

Kratom, I cannot tolerate it due to allergies and intolerances but I did take it for one month and I absolutely loved it or what you are seeking I found it to be amazing for my anxiety and I have a really extreme anxiety disorder about as extreme as can be much of the time.
Kratom was probably the best thing I have ever experienced for immediately taking away all of my mental agitation and anxiety and woes as soon as the effects kicked in in and instantly improving my mood and outlook.

Thanks for this, I do have kratom on my list and you have made me look forward to eventually trying it.

You never mentioned Etizolam. I have found that to be very helpful with anxiety in certain situations and certain types of anxiety but probably not to the same degree as the kratom for example.

Ehh, I've heard of it but I'm pretty much done with benzos period. I have plenty of klonopin on the table in case of emergency where I need a quick fix but that's all those are: quick fixes. And after Tofisopam messed up, the acclaimed benzo without the horrible side effects, I've utterly lost my patience with these. Imidazenil is the only one I will give a try at this point in time because it was highly recommended.

Also have you considered microdosing psychedelics like psilocybin mushrooms or LSD or the clearnet LSD homologues like 1p LSD, ald-52 and 1cp LSD?

Hallucinogens are a huge no-no. The first and last time I took acid was the worst nightmare I ever had that I couldn't wake up from. Whoever claims this helps their anxiety is confusing anxiety with something else.
Understand that I'm a very negative, cynical person who has learned to always watch his back and expect the worst. Thus, any hallucinogen or stimulant I take just greatly amplifies these feelings. If I start seeing shit, it's guaranteed to be negative and horrifying.

SSRIs are fucking crazy. I went through like 3 of them, then switched to SNRIs, then NDRIs... 2 hellish years of my life. Your depression is cured because you're so wrapped up in the side effects,

You're lucky, they didn't even cure my depression but made me outright suicidal back in the day.

For real. Psychiatry is still in the dark ages right now, SSRIs are going to be looked at in the same way we view lobotomies 100 years from now.

Psychiatry is pseudoscientific, that's the problem, it will always be in the dark ages. SSRIs have just as much as scientific foundation as lobotomies which is why they were both proclaimed miracle cures before they even bothered to test their crackpot theories out.
This is why when you're as desperate as I am, your only option left is to become a guinea pig until you find something that works, because you'll never know why it works, just that it does. Nothing would make me happier than if someone found a way to study the brain in a non-invasive way.

It looks like you've explored just about every anti-anxiety medication or supplement available... If you're not wanting to be on a bzd daily or an SSRI, I don't know what you're looking for at this point. It sounds like you need to turn inwards and look for the source of your anxiety and perhaps consider alternatives that aren't medications or supplements; what those are, I couldn't say. I just take bzds every day and my anxiety is managed well and I'm fine with that so I haven't spent much time exploring stuff like meditation, etc.

Haha, I've only explored about half, if that. Plenty of more popping sprees to go on before I'm done.

As for the source of my anxiety, it stems from living in a sick system full of sick people. I had to watch my back all the time, paid the price every time I made the mistake of even slightly letting my guard down. So all this walking on eggshells, being paranoid, being cynical, having to treat everybody like a predator and needing to be one step ahead in case someone is plotting against me and so on. This wasn't nerve-wracking in the beginning. In fact, I could derive pride from it and I was quite confident, because I knew no one could fuck with me. Over time, these stopped being voluntary thoughts and have become involuntary. Now I can't control my apprehension and cynicism, it happens on an unconscious level. Now I overthink every thought and can't do something as simple as deciding to watch a fucking movie without wasting 3 hours reminiscing, procrastinating and multitasking random stupid shit.

In other words, I've trained myself into this state the past few decades and it backfired. I reject CBT because I have no intention of undoing my awareness about this sick world that pushed me into this corner and becoming blissfully ignorant. Fuck that. What I do want is to be able to have a choice, to be able to voluntarily be the cynical, paranoid, misanthropic fuck that I am. So far, only oxytocin and selank have done this. I do not want to be a prisoner of my own mind.

It's more complicated than this, but that's about the long of the short of it.

 

[hydroazuanacaine]

valerian root is actually decent for anxiety. doesn’t hold a candle to benzos, but it’s way more than placebo.

tolerance builds quickly. and it makes you smell bad when you sweat. no biggie except during hot yoga.

 

[jose ribas da silva]

God's love, we need God in our lives, amen brother and sisters

 

[Inds]

Mexidol time. Doing this one just to get it over with, instructions say 1-2 pills 2-3 times a day. I'll take 2 twice a day to avoid bringing any of this shit to work. The pills don't taste as bad as Mebicar at least.

 

[Xorkoth]

CBD is pretty much modern day snake oil IMO. I doubt it has much in terms of psychoactive properties whatsoever. I've given it a shot via different ROAs and none have produced anything noteworthy. I've found it virtually useless. It's abundantly clear to me that THC is the main psychoactive cannabinoid in cannabis, the others playing minor, or even non-existent roles.

While certainly in this "CBD craze" we find ourselves in, it's being marketed as some sort of miracle cure-all, CBD does have some significant benefits in some areas, most notably in raising the seizure threshold (which is a lifesaver for people with seizure disorders). Also it does really work for some people for anxiety and sleep. However it doesn't seem to do much in those areas for some. My girlfriend gets a paradoxical reaction where she gets tremors and intense anxiety from it, too.

valerian root is actually decent for anxiety. doesn’t hold a candle to benzos, but it’s way more than placebo.

tolerance builds quickly. and it makes you smell bad when you sweat. no biggie except during hot yoga.

Yes, agreed. Valerian root is pretty effective. Kava is nice as well.

Another easily available, OTC thing that works prettty decently is diphenhydramine (benadryl). 25mg (1 pill) produces a calming and somewhat sedating effect. It really does help with anxiety.

 

[Cream Gravy?]

Another easily available, OTC thing that works prettty decently is diphenhydramine (benadryl). 25mg (1 pill) produces a calming and somewhat sedating effect. It really does help with anxiety.

YMMV, I find DPH to cause the most vivid and horrifying nightmares. Not great for relaxing.

 

[Xorkoth]

Even at 25mg?

Well it's worth trying anyway. In my experience, 25mg (or 50mg in more extreme anxiety) will calm me down substantially within an hour. It's not good to use all the time, but it helps in a pinch. L-theanine is good too, it is an animo acid that the body uses to make GABA as well as dopamine, and it provides light anxiety relief and can also take away some peripheral stimulation (like I use it to blunt the anxiety-producing aspect of caffeine).

 

[Cream Gravy?]

Even at 25mg?

For me, yes. I only use DPH in cases of allergies now, never for sleep because the nightmares are pretty consistent in occurrence.

 

[Inds]

Wow, what a day. This Mexidol reminds me way too much of Buspirone. This shit is just pumping me full of adrenaline, I can feel it. At work I've been bolder and a bit unfiltered in conversation and action (almost ran over my colleague with the forklift too). I felt queasy all damn day and kept hauling ass like I was in a damn rush. This drug is not an anxiolytic, it's a fucking stimulant. I'm definitely overstimulated and irritable right now. Unhappy as fuck. I am more proactive and motivated while on this, but only because I feel like I'm in a fucking war zone. This is the opposite of what I wanted.

Tofisopam did the same thing but without the added confidence and proactivity which makes Mexidol more useful than that one if not for the queasiness which utterly mitigates any positive advantage.

FUCK MEXIDOL. Spent so much money buying a 6-week supply only to get sick on the first day. But seriously, I did not see this coming at all. Nowhere in the description does it speak of any adrenaline-agonist properties.
Anyone smarter than me care to point out what I overlooked? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emoxypine

Fuck me, I was so excited in the beginning because the very first Russian drug I tried worked wonders but now I'm quickly losing my respect. All the subsequent ones I tried either had no effect or a negative one and they're just getting worse.

I realize it's difficult to predict what will work for who because of how different everyone is, namely the weird motherfucker known as I, but is it possible to draw some correlation from my self-reported experiences with these different chemicals on which neurotransmitter of mine is out of whack and the most suitable drug to correct it? I'd love to consult a psychiatrist and share this thread with him, the problem is they're all dumb as shit in my city and can't even discuss elementary pharmacology.

God, I keep worrying about repeating that buspirone withdrawal hell in 2017-2018 but I only took this Mexidol stuff twice, I've been on buspirone for 3 months. I should be good in no time, yeah. 2 days instead of 2 years. You're good man. You fucked up your Christmas but oh well. Merry Christmas to you guys, if it even means shit hearing it from an unhappy, irritable, stressed out guy.

 

[scatterday]

Hallucinogens are a huge no-no. The first and last time I took acid was the worst nightmare I ever had that I couldn't wake up from. Whoever claims this helps their anxiety is confusing anxiety with something else.
Understand that I'm a very negative, cynical person who has learned to always watch his back and expect the worst. Thus, any hallucinogen or stimulant I take just greatly amplifies these feelings. If I start seeing shit, it's guaranteed to be negative and horrifying.

How can you be certain if you've only tried it once?

I suffer from bad anxiety and I've smoked dmt about 10-15 times. 99% of those experiences have been good. 1 negative/challenging experience which could have been avoided.

What's causing your anxiety. Is it drug induced or something else?

 

[checktest]

I know you wrote off beta-blockers and such in the beginning post, but if you are focusing on adrenergic effects and don't fare well with some serotonergics and have tried a bunch of gabaergics, it may be worth trying one as a PRN. They are WADA banned from shooting sports and such for a reason. Propranolol can also be used to modify fear evaluation and thoughts.

Buspirone has a metabolite that can be an a2 antagonist which doesn't mesh well with some people. I believe a2 is essentially an autoreceptor, wherein normal DA/NE leads to negative feedback damping the signal. As such antagonists can be stimulatory, though reality and interactions are more complex. A comparison would be yohimbine. Would likely be fairly anxiogenic for you, haha. A agonists like guanfacine and clonidine are used second-third line for ADHD and help some people who have trouble with stimulants. Usually more of a daily thing though, and they have rebound. Of course everyone is unique, and some get bothered as well.

I definitely have anxiety and have benefited from methylphenidate more than benzos and the like, so everyone is different. NRIs can be 'paradoxically' effective for many panic and anxiety disorders in some individuals. Messy stuff. Then again I was on parnate and a bunch of others. Tonic vs phasic responses and adaptations over time.


I mean, if your established thoughts from the environment you grew up in are behind your distress, it seems logical to go after them with therapy. We can build defense mechanisms that may have fit the situation in the past but are destructive now. I was in a DBT group with a lot of people who had histories of abuse and didn't want to give up the safety of previous defense mechanisms because of fear of being taken advantage of again. Not everything has to be CBT or something like that. Recognizing the situation and the motivations / drivers can be beneficial. On more than a cerebral or disconnected level, I mean.

Reviewing what led the practice of being defensive to being the default mode, trying to balance protecting yourself and engaging in life, both are some ideas to explore. I've found the protection of cynicism and forced stability overrated outside of manipulative environments. Excessive negativity. I realize that is a difficult spot when you had someone who told you you were a certain way in the past, and the whole idea brings baggage/trauma. Shutting down from reacting can prevent connecting to good things and make an outward appearance of depression, even if it stemmed from a self-protective area.

I mean there is a difference from pursuing mood stability in bipolar disorder vs. mood stability in OCPD or excessive anxiety, of course.

Human beings really seem to operate more probabilistically, and from other levels than our minds want to connect to. What is control? We make explanations for choices we have subconsciously made that don't reflect what was going on. We remold our memories and can implant false ones that feel real. Humans are really quite something and our minds are quite mysterious. Meditation. Exploring what is going on in a controlled environment could be useful.

I got off-topic. I also get not wanting to pursue therapy, so best of luck! Have a happy holiday season.


I disliked aniracetam but it seems to benefit some.

 

[Inds]

Jamming to Cascada's discography on Christmas eve, my god she's amazing. I downloaded everything last Sunday to relive the nostalgia while commuting to work but I was too stressed out to enjoy it. I almost thought I outgrew this stuff or somehow the low-quality amateur remixes from Limewire that have been transcoded 20 times were better than her original work.

Now that Mexidol bullshit is wearing off, I get to listen to her stuff without the distortions and it's fucking great. What a goddess.

 

[Inds]

How can you be certain if you've only tried it once?

I suffer from bad anxiety and I've smoked dmt about 10-15 times. 99% of those experiences have been good. 1 negative/challenging experience which could have been avoided.

What's causing your anxiety. Is it drug induced or something else?

Because why would I repeat a mindfuck twice? That time I dropped acid I was actually quite confident, cocky even. Today I'm a nervous wreck, not gonna play with fire.
I cringe when you mention dmt and have no idea why or how you derive something positive from it, I've seen Nelly from Drugslab freak out on that stuff. And she is a completely normal, happy individual with no personal problems who gets paid by the Dutch government to do this. So seeing it fuck up someone who is completely stable makes me reluctant to test how far I can amplify my psychological problems. I have more than enough of them.

No my anxiety is not drug-induced but some of these supposed anxiolytics have successfully amplified it. There is no specific cause. Living in this fucked up system having to watch my back all the time and be on edge is the most likely culprit.

I know you wrote off beta-blockers and such in the beginning post, but if you are focusing on adrenergic effects and don't fare well with some serotonergics and have tried a bunch of gabaergics, it may be worth trying one as a PRN. They are WADA banned from shooting sports and such for a reason. Propranolol can also be used to modify fear evaluation and thoughts.

Really? From what I read, the effects are purely physical. I even considered having a beta blocker at my disposal for the next time I roll in case of a panic attack but when I looked this up someone actually conducted a study and it did not mitigate any panicky feelings from a bad MDMA trip, only lowered the blood pressure and slowed the heartbeat. That's why I wrote it off as useless. If it can't even stop a panic attack, why would it be useful for anxiety?

Buspirone has a metabolite that can be an a2 antagonist which doesn't mesh well with some people. I believe a2 is essentially an autoreceptor, wherein normal DA/NE leads to negative feedback damping the signal. As such antagonists can be stimulatory, though reality and interactions are more complex. A comparison would be yohimbine. Would likely be fairly anxiogenic for you, haha. A agonists like guanfacine and clonidine are used second-third line for ADHD and help some people who have trouble with stimulants. Usually more of a daily thing though, and they have rebound. Of course everyone is unique, and some get bothered as well.

You seem to know a thing or two. Care to look at the pharmacodynamics of mexidol and tell me why the effects felt so similar to buspirone? Where is the adrenaline release? I reviewed all these drugs before trying them and ironically I was worried about mexidol being a MAOI.

I mean, if your established thoughts from the environment you grew up in are behind your distress, it seems logical to go after them with therapy. We can build defense mechanisms that may have fit the situation in the past but are destructive now. I was in a DBT group with a lot of people who had histories of abuse and didn't want to give up the safety of previous defense mechanisms because of fear of being taken advantage of again. Not everything has to be CBT or something like that. Recognizing the situation and the motivations / drivers can be beneficial. On more than a cerebral or disconnected level, I mean.

That's what I want, to be able to control my thoughts. I believe my paranoia and cynicism is rational, the problem is it became emotional, involuntary. That's why it's destructive, not because the prospect that most people are evil scumbags is no longer relevant. The problem is, how do I meaningfully discuss subconscious, involuntary thoughts in therapy? And how do we meaningfully control non-cerebral thoughts? Oh sure, the last therapy I went to suggested putting myself in danger to alleviate the anxiety or to practice crackpot-clinical political correctness (CBT) where I should train myself the opposite way I did the last few decades by being irrationally optimistic about everything and always naively assuming that everyone means well and wants to suck my dick.

As I said, I will not be blissfully ignorant. This socio-economic system is fucking depraved and I will never accept it. But I don't wanna be anxious about it either, I want to be happy and confident about giving it my lifelong middle finger, as was the case in the past.

Reviewing what led the practice of being defensive to being the default mode, trying to balance protecting yourself and engaging in life, both are some ideas to explore. I've found the protection of cynicism and forced stability overrated outside of manipulative environments. Excessive negativity. I realize that is a difficult spot when you had someone who told you you were a certain way in the past, and the whole idea brings baggage/trauma. Shutting down from reacting can prevent connecting to good things and make an outward appearance of depression, even if it stemmed from a self-protective area.

That's the problem, the system we live in IS a manipulative environment. Every part of it. We're bombarded with advertising everywhere we go. Everyone is seeking to exploit everybody, there's nothing but fakeness in the air everywhere.

I mean there is a difference from pursuing mood stability in bipolar disorder vs. mood stability in OCPD or excessive anxiety, of course.

Indeed, and I'm not even sure which one is mine. During my time in emotionless limbo I allowed others to convince me I was clinically depressed, then the aftermath of an mdma overdose reminded me what real depression felt like. While I can accept that anxiety and depression overlap, I always put them in a different category altogether. They don't feel the same to me. And now Mexidol reminded me how adrenaline-induced anxiety feels different than the general anxiety I normally feel. It's a clusterfuck.

 

[checktest]

I can't say I know too much but I've been on a lot of medicines, haha.

Oh, I am not a big fan of propranolol and the like for most anxiety, but if physical / adrenergic symptoms are a major driver then they can be worth a try. Depends on whether physical symptoms are drivers or sustainers. The interplay between physical and mental, other components can lead to panic and reactivity differently from dealing with something after panic has begun. Not all anxiety is panic, and long-term general tension can be insidious.

Mexidol has too many possible mechanisms listed without more precise studies delineating/differentiating between them. I don't read Russian but perhaps some of the translated ones have a good deal of detail.

I mean covering acetylcholinesterase, all the PDEs, AC, many possible areas of problems. See side effects of acetyl cholinesterase inhibitors like donepezil. Cholinergic / adrenergic / glutamatergic balances can be problematic, and are complex. Increased ACh can cause anxiety and depression in some people, certainly.

Certainly dopamine can be linked and a modulator of anxiety, even separate from metabolism into noradrenaline. D1 signaling, agonism say, in the amygdala can modulate fear and anxiety adversely while similar agonism in the PFC can be anxiolytic. (Say hypofrontality in anxiety vs. Enhanced frontality.) As a modulator dopamine may have quite individual effects depending on underlying circuitry, glutamatergic etc...we all can be a little different in our reactions. Thus driving development of partial agonists in schizophrenia, like cariprazine, lurasidone and such.

I think some therapies for ocd/ anxiety explicitly go against "controlling thoughts" in a deterministic sense, working on instead modifying what we do with them and how we act. Moving away from an adversarial view of thoughts, and black-and-white thinking. Some are functional, or promote opposite action to what one feels and perceives. Given a set of beliefs how can we function toward our goals, effectively, seeing what really happens. We don't have to say everything is good but can recognize some good in our own actions. Certainly don't have to be ignorant of the badness of many things in the world to work on our own good. It can be easy to discount the danger of fear because of how it drives much of our thinking. Putting ourselves in the world makes us vulnerable, a target, but not participating or acting in the world presents a separate threat. Letting the system beat us by staying out of it is a different kind of loss. I'm not looking to exploit any body in my world, even if I do recognize the competition and struggle that can be present. How can one function in the world at a personal level? What level of functional acceptance or change is possible within our respective areas? Radical acceptance.

I would argue there are different types of depression, and that just because one doesn't feel the same daily as after an MDMA binge doesn't mean one isn't experiencing depressive symptoms. Even drug induced depressions are different. The tension and lousiness of taking a massive amount of cholinergics differs from potent anti-dopaminergics in my experience, which I imagine is different from post-MDMA withdrawal. Atypical depression is different from melancholic which is different from a mixed state or some bipolar depression.

I'm talking nonsense for a Christmas morning but that's how it goes sometimes. Cheers.

 

[scatterday]

but I say dependency is better than agoraphobia.

I thought the same thing, Maybe it is but the withdrawals were pretty damn terrible. Easily the worst thing I've experienced in my life for months on end.

Although when I was taking xanax daily I was very active, It did come with side effects though.

What does etizolam feel like?

I've seen Nelly from Drugslab freak out on that stuff

Are you talking about this video?

They're definitely not suitable for everyone but I think you're looking at psychedelics with the wrong mindset. I can understand if they aren't for you but they're a long term fix for anxiety rather than a short term like benzodiazepines and other related drugs. You often hear about sufferers of anxiety who have managed to overcome it successfully explain that you need to understand how to deal with it differently before you can beat it. Psychedelics are the key to doing this for a lot of people. It's a long road to recovery believe me but I've finally found a few things that are actually working and giving me a lot of relief.

Instead of saying what drug can I use/take to deal with the anxiety I'm now looking at it like, How can I look at/deal with the anxiety differently to make it more manageable.

One of my first few questions should have been, Have you considered getting a blood test for hormone levels?

Low testosterone can cause many of the symptoms you've described. After a cycle of testosterone recently I definitely noticed increased confidence and mood stabilization whilst on the testosterone.

 

[polymath]

The MAO-B inhibitor selegiline is also said to have an anxiolytic effect, and it doesn't cause tolerance or impair your performance. People who have less MAO-B because of genetic reasons are less anxious than others.

 

[Xorkoth]

What does etizolam feel like?

Etizolam is like a less intoxicating, more euphoric xanax, kind of. They're both very good for acute anxiety. Etizolam is more hypnotic and is amazing for sleep. I don't find benzos recreational, but etizolam is the closest to recreational of any benzo I've tried.

 

[Inds]

Are you talking about this video?

Ah crap, no. This one. I confused DMT with Salvia, my bad.

They're definitely not suitable for everyone but I think you're looking at psychedelics with the wrong mindset. I can understand if they aren't for you but they're a long term fix for anxiety rather than a short term like benzodiazepines and other related drugs. You often hear about sufferers of anxiety who have managed to overcome it successfully explain that you need to understand how to deal with it differently before you can beat it. Psychedelics are the key to doing this for a lot of people. It's a long road to recovery believe me but I've finally found a few things that are actually working and giving me a lot of relief.

That's the thing, as a paranoid schizophrenic I have the bad mindset to begin with. I know psychedelics can be very therapeutic but only in a controlled setting supervised by professionals. Molly has had a very positive, lasting effect but it also had lasting, negative effects the times that I had a bad trip and I've had more bad ones than good ones. And mdma is considered a soft psychedelic. Believe me, psychedelics are options when I'm healthy, not in this state, lmao.

Instead of saying what drug can I use/take to deal with the anxiety I'm now looking at it like, How can I look at/deal with the anxiety differently to make it more manageable.

The problem is, they aren't cerebral thoughts and I can't control my subconscious. I have a great lack of self-awareness on top of that which makes it twice as complicated.

One of my first few questions should have been, Have you considered getting a blood test for hormone levels?

It's funny you mention that, I have been planning for months now to buy a T test kit, but only for fun. It actually wouldn't be a bad idea to make a doctor's appointment about this. That way my insurance would cover it.
I don't think I have low T levels but on the other hand I've noticed a steady drop in libido over the past few years so it's worth a look. Thanks for the suggestion.

Low testosterone can cause many of the symptoms you've described. After a cycle of testosterone recently I definitely noticed increased confidence and mood stabilization whilst on the testosterone.

It makes sense. I've had a far worse life in my younger years (being homeless, involuntarily committed to mental hospitals etc.) yet I recall them as the better times. Happier, much more confident, creative and so on. Today I'm financially secure yet I've never felt more anxious. It's plausible that being younger and having higher testosterone produced that perception.