Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine Mega Thread and FAQ v17.0 + v18.0

[Jesusgreen]

Hey I'm curious as to how long Buprenorphine lasts for you guys with each ROA you've tried. Please state: ROA, usual dose (so I can compare the dosage you need with each ROA), duration of main effects (if you're a lower tolerance or get high from Bupe in any way, then I mean the high/euphoria you get itself here - if you have a higher tolerance I mean how long does it keep you fully 100% "well" and not wanting to redose), duration of total effects until you can no longer feel the Bupe at all (or in the case of tolerant individuals, go into withdrawals).

I'm most interested to hear about: Snorted, Plugged, IV (but please include your sublingual info for comparison's sake)

I've taken Bupe sublingually, I've snorted it, I've plugged it, I've IVed it (please don't IV Bupe unless you have Buprenex or some other solution meant for IV/IM injections - REALLY bad idea) but I still can't figure out just how long it lasts with each ROA for me really, because for the most part since Bupe has never caused any raise in tolerance for me (in fact it drops my tolerance even with daily use and I've used it to taper from heavy habits a bunch) I've almost always taken it for at least a few days in a row, often dosing before the prior dose has worn off etc.

That said, I think I can say rough durations for me for sublingual, and dosage for the rest:

ROA - Sublingual
Usual Dose - ~3mg+
Main effects (euphoria at low tolerance/sedation or feeling 100% "well" at high tolerance) - 14-20 hours (dose dependent)
Total effects (time from dosing to no noticeable effects or withdrawals) - 22-48 hours (dose and very much tolerance dependent)

ROA - Snorted
Usual Dose - ~2mg+

ROA - Plugged
Usual Dose - ~1.5mg+

ROA - IV
Usual Dose - ~0.5mg+

(This is going by the times I've had a higher than average but not *crazy* high tolerance - please don't attempt these dosages if you have a low tolerance, IV in particular, you'd be surprised how strong IV can be, my first time IVing I was taking 2-3mg sublingual at the time and a mere < 0.25mg gave me a rush similar to low dose IV morphine)

Anyway if you respond, please list times for all the ROAs you've tried - the main reason I'm asking this is half-lives don't really reflect on how long people actually feel the effects necessarily and I'd like to work out something I've rarely seen mentioned here - people often use other ROAs over sublingual because the dosage required is lower, but sometimes that can mean a significantly shorter duration, and I'm trying to figure out which ROA actually works out the least dose/hour ratio and conserves the most. A lot of people would jump to the conclusion of IV pretty quick but my limited experience with Bupe IV is that it's VERY short lasting compared to sublingual, despite the much smaller dosage required, and I kinda feel like you might actually end up using more if you're one of the people who redose every time you don't feel the full effects or feel the slightest discomfort.

 

[Eveleivibe]

Hiya,

Sorry I can't answer properly as I've only ever taken it subliminally n for maintenance. I tend to feel normal on it n for most of the time but do, somewhat have waves of euphoria n also stimulation, believe it or not, throughout the 24-hour period.

I also find the waves of stimulation / euphoria, more frequent when I reduce. This certainly was the case going down from 12 mg to 10 mg n from 10 mg to 8 mg. i can't answer for any lower as I've not yet reduced to any lower than 8 mg.

Sorry that I can't be of dny proper help to you with this. Good luck n finding answers.

Evey

 

[Jesusgreen]

Oh reducing will certainly help, in my experience 1-2mg is *significantly* more euphoric and nice than 8-10mg. Though you need to lower your tolerance as with a higher tolerance 1mg may be a little on the low side. That said, believe it or not I've seen people jump from multiple gram a day IV Heroin habits to just 2mg Buprenorphine without significant discomfort, so you might be surprised how much easier it is to reduce your dosage than you might have thought.

In my experience when I've taken Bupe daily for periods of time what I'd do to lower the dosage if I was tolerant and would experience withdrawals when stopping at the time was: Add an extra 12-24 hours before my next dose (i.e. if I normally redosed once a day, make my next dose after 36-48 hours instead, or as close to that as I can possibly manage to endure any discomfort I experience) and reduce the dosage by no more than 25%, i.e. if you're on 8mg don't dose any lower than 6mg.

You'll be surprised how much that extra 12-24 hours can help your tolerance, I've almost always found if I can wait the full 24, then 75% of my previous dose will be just fine so I can reduce my dose, and I've been able to use this to go from 20-40x baseline opiate tolerance to 0 tolerance and being non-dependent on opiates a few times now. If you can only manage an additional 12 hours or less you can probably still reduce but there might be a *little* bit of discomfort, alternatively you can reduce by 10-15% instead of the 25% or so and say drop from 8mg to 7mg and you should likely be just fine.

Hoping this might help you as Bupe has been a really wonderful tool for me in taking breaks from opiates and reducing my tolerance multiple times, I think with the focus on long term daily maintenance a lot of people find it laughable when people claim to have dropped their tolerance to almost nothing with 1-2 weeks using Bupe, but me and others I know have done it a few times now and it's a real possibility - and something I think users on maintenance should explore themselves to save themselves money, tolerance, and make it easier for them to eventually jump off and become clean should that be their goal now/in the future. :D

 

[Pill__Head]

@jesusgreeen

Well so far my only ROA has been sublingual. When I started I was on 12mg, and the only time i ever felt any 'opiate feel/glow/what-have-you' was during introduction, when I was i severe Methadone WD that 2mg of Subutx within 10 mins sub-l I would start to feel my aches, pains, tremmors, and anxiousness slowly start to die down.

Now here I am 'bout 4-5 week later am I usually just dose 8mg/d Sublingual - and when I dose I dont get any "opiate feels" what-so-ever. It just kills my slight need/want to ingest some drug, and keep my from being sick.

Sometimes at night, if I worked or did a lot of shit during the day or if I just feel like it, Ill dose another 1-2mg before I go to bed.

And BTW: I dose my sublingual in liquid form. I just stated it, and love it, its absorbed waay faster, and possily stronger, all thanks to sir loree (sp) , here on greenlight.

 

[fullycaffeinated]

Ok - just like I thought, some say it pins the pupils, others say no. Personally it's hit and miss for me and only seems to pin pupils in an extremely high dose (like my scripted 20 mg), OR when I actually catch a buzz off it. But occasionally I feel a lil buzz and my pupils are not pinned and it confuses me. Also, I'm one of those people where on full agonists it's painfully obvious I'm high, even people who have no clue that opiates have that effect know something's up.

@jesusgreen

Plugging has never worked for me, I've tried 3x and never gotten a thing. I must be more backed up than I think.

Snorting 7-12 hrs dose dependent

Sublingual 24-48 hrs dose dependent.

These are how long doses hold me before I feel withdrawals. However, if I feel some kind of buzz from a dose it only lasts a few hours regardless of ROA.

I usually dose under 6 mg a day, when that is the case the doses don't hold me as long. If I dose higher like when I have to take ~20mg, doses will hold me up to two days.

Tbh, I dose sublingually 99% of the time, anything else is too much of a hassle and from what I've found there's little to no return on my efforts.

 

[Snakevillon]

^^ plugging didn't work for you cuz the ba for plugin sub is low bout the same as sublingual I believe I think it's funny when people mock out people like me who shoot subs for the 100% ba and say I should try plugging it it's like uh no why would I stick something in my fuckin ass to get a lower ba than snorting it.. Some people jus love it in the ass or jus don't no any better prob the latter lol but yea people don't realize that ALL DRUGS have different b/a s for ALL THE different moa s EVEN drugs in the same class ie opiates

 

[Lucas23]

Wasn't able to go down to 2mg either yesterday or today I will continue to work on it. I just need some resolve. It's really not as hard as I think it is. It's not a huge reduction like 4mg to 1mg, which could actually cause some withdrawals. I think the withdrawal would be minimum from 4mg to 2mg. What are your guy's experiences tapering down?

Kronick,
I think I'm in the same boat as you. I tapered from 16mgs to 1mg over a 12 month period with no problem. For the last year I've been bumping around in the 1mg to 4mg area. Never more than 4mg. Recently I've found it very hard to get back down under 2mg. Really, really hard. Sometimes I end up taking 1mg right before bed or late at night and I wish I could just get through the night ok. I know if I take 1mg for 2-3 days in a row that I can take 3mg and get a REAL NICE energy lift.
I read somewhere that 1mg of Suboxone is MORE THAN ENOUGH for a person to get through the day from a physical perspective. So I guess its all mental. My new ploy is taking 1mg at 7am every morning then seeing how far I can get into the day before I resort to taking more. I work a white collar sales job so I'm around the city, seeing clients, being active, etc. I can't risk not being at the top of my game.
My goal is to get down to 1mg daily. Then occasionally taking 3mgs to give me a mood lift when I want it like maybe every couple of weeks. That would be ideal.
Not even close to thinking about stopping Subs. But in the full context of things I'm very glad I started taking it because my oxycodone habit was getting more massive by the week and I was headed to only a couple places: jail, death, homeless, divorced, etc. Suboxone has also given me the opportunity to get my life straightened out. I don't look at it as trading one addiction for another. And if I did I'd still make that trade all day every day.

 

[curiositykills]

I'm sure my question has been answered before, but I haven't been able to find the answer yet. I'm taking suboxone sublingual strips to kick an opiate habit. This is my second day and third time ever taking suboxone. Everytime I get an awful headache. Ofcourse the headache is better than opiate withdrawals. My question is, is there any way, other than not taking the subs (not an option) to prevent the headaches or make them go away? I've tried what would make any other headache go away, just doesn't help. Also any other helpful hints or tips for a new sub strip user? In laymans terms, pretty please, I'm not stupidbut I'm no scientist either. If its helpful I was taking a minimum of 40 mg oxycodone daily to stave off wds, I'd need 40mg oxymorphone a day to be high. Currently going w/ 6mg suboxone, not seeing a doctor.

 

[Pill__Head]

I'm sure my question has been answered before, but I haven't been able to find the answer yet. I'm taking suboxone sublingual strips to kick an opiate habit. This is my second day and third time ever taking suboxone. Everytime I get an awful headache. Ofcourse the headache is better than opiate withdrawals. My question is, is there any way, other than not taking the subs (not an option) to prevent the headaches or make them go away? I've tried what would make any other headache go away, just doesn't help. Also any other helpful hints or tips for a new sub strip user? In laymans terms, pretty please, I'm not stupidbut I'm no scientist either. If its helpful I was taking a minimum of 40 mg oxycodone daily to stave off wds, I'd need 40mg oxymorphone a day to be high. Currently going w/ 6mg suboxone, not seeing a doctor.

I got headaches bad, everyday the first week,..but thats about it, after that the subsided.

 

[Lucas23]

I'm sure my question has been answered before, but I haven't been able to find the answer yet. I'm taking suboxone sublingual strips to kick an opiate habit. This is my second day and third time ever taking suboxone. Everytime I get an awful headache. Ofcourse the headache is better than opiate withdrawals. My question is, is there any way, other than not taking the subs (not an option) to prevent the headaches or make them go away? I've tried what would make any other headache go away, just doesn't help. Also any other helpful hints or tips for a new sub strip user? In laymans terms, pretty please, I'm not stupidbut I'm no scientist either. If its helpful I was taking a minimum of 40 mg oxycodone daily to stave off wds, I'd need 40mg oxymorphone a day to be high. Currently going w/ 6mg suboxone, not seeing a doctor.

I'm no doctor but 40mgs Oxymorphone is not a very big habit. I bet you are taking WAY more in equivalent bupe if you're taking 6mg Suboxone. Take less, way less. Like maybe 1mg. Again, I'm no doctor but you're taking way too much bupe.

 

[daveykronick]

I'm no doctor but 40mgs Oxymorphone is not a very big habit. I bet you are taking WAY more in equivalent bupe if you're taking 6mg Suboxone. Take less, way less. Like maybe 1mg. Again, I'm no doctor but you're taking way too much bupe.

I agree completely. curiosity, you should be taking no more than 1-2mg with your tolerance. Everybody I know who was a HEAVY heroin IV user could get by on 1-2mg. Anymore and you are just raising your tolerance. It is said that the ceiling is around 4-6mg, some people may disagree and say it is a higher, but for me and my friends it is around 4mg. I have had 1mg hold me totally fine, but I started taking more and more just to chase the elusive "glow" (stupid, I know). Now I am on 4mg (well actually 2.5mg with the mouthwash technique in h2o solution) and I am trying to get down to 1mg so I can "feel" it. This drug is very, very potent but it's effects are subtle once you get accustomed to it. The beginning or "induction" phase is known as the "honeymoon phase" and it gives the best "glow". So, I would recommend taking no more than 4mg sublingual or 2.5mg if you rinse with an alcohol-based mouthwash and mix your bupe in a small amount of water .5-1.0ml. You can even use a non-alcohol based mouthwash to increase bioavailability due to the menthol helping absorption, that's the whole idea behind the new Zubsolv formulation which is said to have 40-50% bioavailability. I think using an alcohol based mouthwash and rinsing with hot water afterward, will get you about 40-50%, where as if you used an actual ethanol solution between 40-50% alcohol (like vodka, gin, etc) you could raise the BA to about 60% ( 50-70% ), someone correct me if I am wrong. If I were you, I would be taking no more than 2mg in the ethanol solution, or at least the mouthwash technique. Good luck to you, curiosity!

As for me I have been unsuccessful in tapering down to below 2mg, right now I am at 2.5mg but with the mouthwash technique, so realistically I am at around 4mg still. It is nice not being wasteful and not using more just to get the same effect. The only problem is the mouthwash makes me nauseous, so I use Zofran, which is a prescription anti-emetic (anti-nausea) drug, available by prescription. I think the Zofran could be helpful for people who get nausea from their bupe. I used to be on Suboxone films, but the nausea I got was so great I had to be switched over to generic buprenorphine (generic for Subutex) and I have felt a noticeable difference in the headache and nausea, even though I still get the headache almost every time, but the nausea is about 50% better. I will stay at 2.5mg for one week, my goal being 2mg next week. I dose 1.5mg and then 1mg 8 hours later, except today I dosed 1mg, then .25mg, then .5mg and then I will dose another .75 later in the day. I need to stop dosing more than 2x a day, because all it is doing is re-enforcing addictive behavior. In rehab we were only allowed once per day dosing, so we didn't re-enforce our addictive behavior (and we had to wait until noon to dose, to make sure we didn't get it right when we woke up). I want to get back down to once a day, but for now I am fine with 2x a day, if I could actually stick to it instead of taking these small doses more frequently, which actually makes me feel less, even though I think it will make me feel more.. Ah, the problems of a buprenorfiend...

 

[d1ahp]

I'm sure my question has been answered before, but I haven't been able to find the answer yet. I'm taking suboxone sublingual strips to kick an opiate habit. This is my second day and third time ever taking suboxone. Everytime I get an awful headache. Ofcourse the headache is better than opiate withdrawals. My question is, is there any way, other than not taking the subs (not an option) to prevent the headaches or make them go away? I've tried what would make any other headache go away, just doesn't help. Also any other helpful hints or tips for a new sub strip user? In laymans terms, pretty please, I'm not stupidbut I'm no scientist either. If its helpful I was taking a minimum of 40 mg oxycodone daily to stave off wds, I'd need 40mg oxymorphone a day to be high. Currently going w/ 6mg suboxone, not seeing a doctor.

As others have said, you might be taking too much Suboxone, and it does cause headaches, at least for me it does. Subuxone is a bit weird and works better the less of it you take. The greater the amount of it you take, the bigger the side effects profile becomes and blocks any nice/euphoric(somewhat) aspects of it. Suboxone works best at sub 2mg doses for a lot of people, not all, some claim they need to take more to hold them down. In my experience, there is absolutely no need for more than 4mg. Based on your habit, in my opinion, 1.5-2.5mg should be sufficient for you, and your headaches will likely get better.

 

[Eveleivibe]

As others have said, you might be taking too much Suboxone, and it does cause headaches, at least for me it does. Subuxone is a bit weird and works better the less of it you take. The greater the amount of it you take, the bigger the side effects profile becomes and blocks any nice/euphoric(somewhat) aspects of it. Suboxone works best at sub 2mg doses for a lot of people, not all, some claim they need to take more to hold them down. In my experience, there is absolutely no need for more than 4mg. Based on your habit, in my opinion, 1.5-2.5mg should be sufficient for you, and your headaches will likely get better.

I agree with d1ahp. You're probably taking too much suboxone. Maybe drop down a few mg and see what happens? I actually noticed that when I took a little less suboxone, I felt better in myself.

Take care,

Evey

 

[fullycaffeinated]

Is it at all possible that when snorting bupe, the naloxone and buprenorphine may compete for the receptors the same way they do when bupe is IVed? I know there are various trains of thought - but the reason I'm asking is this...

I just dissolved ~2mg bupe in warm water and lightly sniffed the warm water. A VERY small amount got sniffed back too hard and resulted in a drip, but it couldn't have been more than .25mg out of that. As I was slowly sniffing the liquid bupe, my pupils got bigger and bigger, in the same room with bright direct light, almost to the point of dilation. Why would this be?

*after about 20 min... I just got the best rush I have felt in a long time off that ~2mg snorted bupe and 400 mg tramadol... Wow... And I've been doing oxy once a month too, somehow this was better.

 

[Jesusgreen]

Is it at all possible that when snorting bupe, the naloxone and buprenorphine may compete for the receptors the same way they do when bupe is IVed? I know there are various trains of thought - but the reason I'm asking is this...

I just dissolved ~2mg bupe in warm water and lightly sniffed the warm water. A VERY small amount got sniffed back too hard and resulted in a drip, but it couldn't have been more than .25mg out of that. As I was slowly sniffing the liquid bupe, my pupils got bigger and bigger, in the same room with bright direct light, almost to the point of dilation. Why would this be?

As far as I'm aware Naloxone is active orally so some could have been consumed when you swallowed that drip, not sure about nasally. Naloxone can reduce the effects of Bupe despite not competing well enough for receptors, but the difference will be minimal at best unless you consume muuuuch more Naloxone than is contained in a few Suboxone pills.

As for dilated pupils, I don't find Bupe to be so predictable in its effects on my pupils. Sometimes for example my pupils will constrict and become tiny like they normally do on opiates when Bupe has been consumed then slowly become larger over the day, seemingly wearing off with the Bupe - however I'd then go to sleep, wake up barely feeling the Bupe's effects anymore and lo and behold my pupils are completely constricted again. I've also sometimes had my pupils actually dilate from an already slightly constricted state when dosing Bupe. I've noticed this happens more often when I take it nasally or smoke it, but I'm unsure why.

 

[Screaming_Skull]

About the dialaed pupils,off topic but kinda on, I had taken Oxy t one day(about 210mg) and took a dose of sub about 16 hours later, when I got to my friends house my pupils were the size as if I had just done some meth, it went away in about 30 miniutes, but I think i took the Sub a little to soon after taking the oxy, thankfully no P/W. And I found when on higher doses of Bupe(8mg+)my pupils are always tiny. When on a dose like 4mg, they wil be normal sized or kinda tinier but towards the end of the day will be slightly larger(not tweaker size though.) Sucks it make your pupils so damn tiny at higher doses but ya (well I'm) still craving unless I have taken some benzo's or Gabapentin with it...

 

[fullycaffeinated]

I just snorted ~1 mg and it did the same thing as last night. Being my first dose of the day, my pupils were HUGE. It looked like I was tripping out.

They eventually got pinned last night and I was pretty high for a while. I'm hoping I can cut back my use even further by snorting, I thought it would be hard with the strips but it is surprisingly easy at low doses. I tried it with 8-16 mg and it was much more difficult, either too much water or too thick solution, take your pick...

About the dialaed pupils,off topic but kinda on, I had taken Oxy t one day(about 210mg) and took a dose of sub about 16 hours later, when I got to my friends house my pupils were the size as if I had just done some meth, it went away in about 30 miniutes, but I think i took the Sub a little to soon after taking the oxy, thankfully no P/W. And I found when on higher doses of Bupe(8mg+)my pupils are always tiny. When on a dose like 4mg, they wil be normal sized or kinda tinier but towards the end of the day will be slightly larger(not tweaker size though.) Sucks it make your pupils so damn tiny at higher doses but ya (well I'm) still craving unless I have taken some benzo's or Gabapentin with it...

I am prescribed gabapentin. Out if curiosity does it synergize with bupe in your opinion? It seems hit or miss to me. I know gabapentin can reduce bioavailabilities of other opiates, does this apply with bupe as well?

@jesusgreen - smoke bupe? Does this work well would you say? Do you get strips?

 

[Tommyboy]

Oh reducing will certainly help, in my experience 1-2mg is *significantly* more euphoric and nice than 8-10mg. Though you need to lower your tolerance as with a higher tolerance 1mg may be a little on the low side. That said, believe it or not I've seen people jump from multiple gram a day IV Heroin habits to just 2mg Buprenorphine without significant discomfort, so you might be surprised how much easier it is to reduce your dosage than you might have thought.

In my experience when I've taken Bupe daily for periods of time what I'd do to lower the dosage if I was tolerant and would experience withdrawals when stopping at the time was: Add an extra 12-24 hours before my next dose (i.e. if I normally redosed once a day, make my next dose after 36-48 hours instead, or as close to that as I can possibly manage to endure any discomfort I experience) and reduce the dosage by no more than 25%, i.e. if you're on 8mg don't dose any lower than 6mg.

You'll be surprised how much that extra 12-24 hours can help your tolerance, I've almost always found if I can wait the full 24, then 75% of my previous dose will be just fine so I can reduce my dose, and I've been able to use this to go from 20-40x baseline opiate tolerance to 0 tolerance and being non-dependent on opiates a few times now. If you can only manage an additional 12 hours or less you can probably still reduce but there might be a *little* bit of discomfort, alternatively you can reduce by 10-15% instead of the 25% or so and say drop from 8mg to 7mg and you should likely be just fine.

Hoping this might help you as Bupe has been a really wonderful tool for me in taking breaks from opiates and reducing my tolerance multiple times, I think with the focus on long term daily maintenance a lot of people find it laughable when people claim to have dropped their tolerance to almost nothing with 1-2 weeks using Bupe, but me and others I know have done it a few times now and it's a real possibility - and something I think users on maintenance should explore themselves to save themselves money, tolerance, and make it easier for them to eventually jump off and become clean should that be their goal now/in the future. :D

That's how I recommend people taper too. Also, whenever I see people posting about having to stretch out their stash due to short supply I always recommend that they go as long as possible without dosing and then take as little as possible to get by. When you take a few days off and get sick enough then pretty much any amount of bupe will make you feel better, hence drastically lowering the amount needed to maintain.

When it comes down to it they can either try reducing their dose as the normal intervals thus feeling a little shitty each day, or just bite the bullet for a day or two and then feel fine thereafter.

That applies to any drug really. Like a person doing 4 bags of heroin each day may feel shitty when dropping down to 2-3 bags for a bit, but if they wait over a day until they are really sick then they will get more relief from a bag of 2 and then be able to maintain just fine on that amount.

 

[curiositykills]

Thanks for all your help guys! I think you were right about me taking too much, but I don't think it was causing the headaches. I've had one when taking as little as .5mg suboxone. I have a theory that it may be a sensitivity to naloxone, much like people with a sensitivity to red dye or sunlight. I never had a headache with subutex and thats what my theory is based on. Asap I'd like to switch. Today, 30 mins before my dose I took 4 excedrin migraine and an hour after dosing still no headache. What a blessing. Today I tried 4mg instead of 6 and I feel much better. I wouldn't call it euphoria, but I am in a really good mood. The queasyness I had yesterday is much less present. Physically and mentally no wd symptoms present what so ever. I thought tomorrow I would try 2mgs and see if that is as good or better as 4mgs. Im so thankful for your advice. On my own, I would never have guessed less would feel better than more. Does my idea of trying 2mgs tomorrow sound like a good one? Most people recommended between 1 and 4 mgs. Also daveykronick mentioned using Zofram for bupe nausea. Will phergen/promethazine(sp?) work as well, or would it react adversely with the bupe? In my regards to my habit/tolerance, its considered pretty high in my area. Opana 40s are the strongest opiate regularly available. You usually can't find heroin around here and when you can the quality is crap. I live in an extremely rural low population area very far from anything anyone would consider urban, if your curious. Thanks again for all your help!
Edit: the reason I started w/ such a high dose was a recommendation from my supplier. Her doc prescribed her 3 8mg strips daily and her habit was 40mgs hydrocodone max daily. I cant imagine taking that much bupe a day.

 

[The Doc.]

Smoke bupe?? Um I wouldn't suggest that
And yes the naloxone does get active when snorted most people don't notice it though and its the same with eating it they do male naloxone pills that you pop my friend who was dying had them for cancer (don't ask me what it does for cancer) and he sold some to a few kids telling em it will be them high lol I guess the kids had quite the disappointment.