Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine Mega Thread and FAQ v17.0 + v18.0

[Lucas23]

Anyone seen or heard from Omen Owen? I'm very interested in how his CT withdrawal from 24mgs of daily Sub is going.

 

[Chriso10238]

Every time I reduce subs I feel stimulated as hell. It's ace! I mostly take 8 mg now and I'm literally bouncing off the walls. Why did no one ever tell me that the less you take the better you feel?

Evey

Now that you mention it yeah you are right. 4mg is about where i get what I think you are describing!!!

 

[Chriso10238]

I have been smoking tar(that's all we have out west) for about 8 months- not every single day- usually my routine is smoke for 3 days(I don't get high during the day- only at night so I can make sure and take care of all my duties for the day- and I only smoke about .5-1.0 gram a night) After 3 days I take a 3-7 day break and repeat the process. I recently quit for 3 weeks straight and started this process again about a week ago- however, I have binged a bit, and today would be day 5 of use for me. My first question is this-- why am I not withdrawling? Before I quit for 3 weeks- I would go into mild w/d for the first 3 days- anxiety, NO ENERGY, fatigue, lack of appetite, and MINOR stomach issues- this began happening to me about 2 months ago. But this time around on this binge- I am not having w/d symptoms- I might have a little less energy but nothing like before- is w/d not occurring because I have not bee using heavily enough this time? Or for long enough?

Second question- I do have subs on hand, because I would take them the first day of w/d (NOTE- I will only take 1/4 of a sub- not a whole strip)

Today I woke up, decided I wasn't going to smoke tonight- and would begin my 3-7 day period of cleansing- only I have decided I DO want to smoke tonight- I took not even a fourth of a sub today- maybe like 1/6th of one- I decided I wanted to smoke tonight after this fact lol.-- If I wait 8-12 hours and smoke this evening- do you think the effects would be greatly diminished? I havehad an experience in the past where I took a tiny bit of a sub- smoked like 5 hours later- and got bzzed but it was very very weak. Do you all think that if I waited a bit longer(8-12) hours- I would have some stronger effects than last time? Please take into consideration there is no way I injested more than 2 mg of sub.

Sure you ain't starting to get hooked, changing your mind and all, opiates play with you head?

I've been on sub maintenance for bout a decade, basic rule for me personally, don't waste your money/time/resources/whatever within 24 hours of your dose regardless of the dose and regardless of how keen you are, it will hold you relatively well till the next day atleast (Obviously the time frame is longer for higher doses with three days being the upper limit, probably why they suspend daily maintenance in Australia for missing two dose pickups in a row). Everyone is different physiologically but generally we all fall within a fairly consistent range with regards to how long this stuff works the only way you will know is to experiment, but you'll kick yourself if you get blocked seeing as though you have your usage under control and seem to still be residing on the recreational end of the opiate use spectrum.

Thing with cutting tabs and films up you can't tell where the drug is concentrated, (although the films might be distributed a little more evenly), so you might only cut off 1/6th but if 80% of the drug is up that end of the film then it wont be 1/6th of the dose on the package.

Anyway happy hunting!

 

[Chriso10238]

it really is a bummer that a drug that is meant to get people sober is used by most to either get a cheap high, or is used in between binges

Subbies were never designed to get anyone sober, the Pharma Ltd's wouldn't make much on repeat customers if everyone was getting clean. This stuff, not unlike methadone, is usually used to maintain addiction without the euphoria but it only deals with the medical side. From my own experience and several criminological/addiction journal articles i've poured over suggest that in order to come to terms with and start getting good clean mileage requires significant individual cognitive & psychological change. It also requires sociological changes, for example increased involvement in social institutions that provide a good source of informal social control (marriage, church &/or community groups are good examples) and routine activities like a rewarding job (actually enjoying work and the people you work with) that form bonds to significant others that drug use will threaten (hence the informal social control) as well as being able to make good choices (which comes back to cognitions and psychology) (Sampson & Laub 2005 "Age graded theory of crime", developmental science context). The doctors I have dealt with personally have no training in this aspect and a few of the more apathetic put no value in this side of addiction treatment. These changes wont guarantee freedom tis more of a process with suboxone as a stop-gap, so............, just getting subbies and no support to make these changes inevitably leads to transferring addictive behaviour into maintenance therapy and misuse of the medication.

Having said that I'm not free but i'm getting better, I have better pro-social influences in my life and I've stopped f'ing around with subs I just take them as prescribed, I still get high on opiates, but very occasionally cause I don't want to lose the things I have achieved, i guess I've socially controlled myself to a degree.

 

[daveykronick]

I've been on bupe (Suboxone and now Subutex) for 4 years now and I have really been struggling trying to find the right dosage. I keep going back and forth between 1mg to 4mg over the years, but for the last 4-6 months I've been at 2-4mg. Today I did an experiment where I took 6-7mg and I definitely notice the side-effects are more pronounced (headache and prostate enlargement). Totally not worth it. I am pissed at myself because I already knew it works better for me at a lower dosage but I convinced myself it would be different this time.. I was just so convinced by everyone saying they feel better at 8-16mg (some even higher!) and I know from personal experience (was on 24mg in rehab) that the higher the dosage the worse the side-effects. There may be a slight benefit in having a longer duration and maybe a slight decrease in cravings but it leaves be feeling dull and "blah" with side-effects. The blockade effect is definitely increased with dosage. I find every time I double the dosage it doubles the blockade.. I feel like most people would do well on smaller doses but are convinced by their doctors they need more for their cravings and they are actually just making their addiction worse by adding even more bupe to stock-pile in their systems and when they finally want to get off it will be hell. I jumped off at 1mg and had tremendous issues so I can't imagine anything above that..

Starting tomorrow I am going to take 0.5mg 3-4x a day. I find this works best for pain. In Europe they use Bunondol (bupe) tablets in 0.2mg and 0.4mg dosage strengths to be taken at 0.2mg-0.8mg every 6 hours for pain. This is what I am personally going to do and what I find to work best. I have in the past just used 1mg intranasally in the morning but then I find I feel cravings throughout the day. I find the intranasal route to be unreliable due to my sinuses being fucked up for the last year or two (probably from snorting all those fillers!!). I think an ideal dose would be 2mg 2x a day or 1mg 2x a day or even 4mg one time a day but I find the analgesic/pain relieving effects to wear off after about 6-8hrs.

Wish me luck guys. I really want to go down to 2mg, been on 4mg for way too long and don't think the side-effects are worth it for me anymore. Bupe is such a strange drug in that someways I feel pretty great. I feel a nice subtle warmth and glow but it's very elusive. It's just so subtle that I don't notice it but in reality this drug is super potent.. It's unbelievable..

 

[Eveleivibe]

Hiya Daveykronick - and Good luck!

Yea I agree that lower dosage makes me feel better, even slightly euphoric. The side-affects at higher doses can be horrible - but please try not to be so harsh on yourself. I was convinced like you for a long time, probably, say, 8 months or so? The arguments I would have with people in here over it, was mad. People would say "Less is more," and I would literally think they were taking the mick - until I lowered my dose from 12mg to 8mg and saw the results for myself.

The only negative thing I've found is that if I don't take the dose exactly the same time each morning, I start to have issues with my homeostasis - feeling too hot and hot, going into cold sweats, lack of confidence - and it's no word of a joke despite what people may think. When I was on 12mg I could even miss a day and not feeling anything or even noticed. I didn't have my dose until 3 pm the next day once and wasn't feeling bad in the slightest - but if I miss that dose, I just don't feel right, it's hard to explain really. It isn't withdrawal - but more a of feeling of "not feeling right."

I wish you all the best, and please don't worry, once you've reduced back, give yourself a few days to a week and you'll start to feel good again and less side affects. I used to wake up with aching knees (like a toothache kind of feeling in the knee), extremely stiff and painful back, my head felt too heavy for my body, was lethargic and constantly tired, felt empty and like life was a chore just to "exist," however, the down side of cutting down is I've started switching moods and taking things people say, way out of context again, whereas on 12mg I was stable in that department, so it all swings some round abouts.

Wishing you all the best and good luck with everything. If you ever want someone to PM / talk to, you're more than welcome to PM me anytime.

Evey

 

[daveykronick]

Thanks, Evey! So I told myself I'd take 2-3 days completely off the bupe to go into withdrawals so I could "feel" it again. I couldn't wait more than an hour after waking up before taking 0.5mg and then about an hour later another 0.5mg and then just a little bit ago another 1.0mg, which in total puts me at 2.0mg. I am trying to get to 2mg a day so I don't want to dose again but if I do I will only dose another 0.5mg so I can at least reduce it by 0.5mg. This is just pathetic because in the past I could jump from 4mg to 1mg with no problem, but I was using many different drugs at that point and right now I rarely use any drugs because I am trying to remain "clean" and I just take my psych meds and bupe. Since bupe is the only thing I have to look forward to I make myself crave it more and more even though it doesn't get me high in the slightest (at best a small "glow).

I used to get high as hell on bupe when I had a low tolerance to opiates (40mg oxy, 60mg morphine plugged, etc). Then I got on black tar IV and my tolerance never recovered. Even after kicking bupe, I only got that classic bupe high for like 1 or 2 days max and then a glow for a while (a few weeks to months) then I got back into not really feeling anything which is where I am at often. I know its in my system and I should feel it but I just don't anymore. When I think it will work it does but it's hard to convince myself that it will work.

This drug is wonderful but its also a curse because the withdrawals are horrible for me and lasted months but while I am on it I am much more stable and I haven't used any other opiate in over 18 months.. I have only used opiates 4-6x in the last 4 years, after going to rehab and getting off heroin and put officially on sub maintenance (not just coping sub on the street). So I have come a long way and I don't give myself credit. I just wish I "felt" it more so I constantly focus on lowering the dose. Ideally I would be on 0.2 twice a day. Screw it. I am not going to stress about it anymore. I will feel this 2.0mg dose and that's that. I feel it already. I have to! lol

 

[daveykronick]

Wasn't able to go down to 2mg either yesterday or today I will continue to work on it. I just need some resolve. It's really not as hard as I think it is. It's not a huge reduction like 4mg to 1mg, which could actually cause some withdrawals. I think the withdrawal would be minimum from 4mg to 2mg. What are your guy's experiences tapering down?

 

[fullycaffeinated]

Thanks, Evey! So I told myself I'd take 2-3 days completely off the bupe to go into withdrawals so I could "feel" it again. I couldn't wait more than an hour after waking up before taking 0.5mg and then about an hour later another 0.5mg and then just a little bit ago another 1.0mg, which in total puts me at 2.0mg. I am trying to get to 2mg a day so I don't want to dose again but if I do I will only dose another 0.5mg so I can at least reduce it by 0.5mg. This is just pathetic because in the past I could jump from 4mg to 1mg with no problem, but I was using many different drugs at that point and right now I rarely use any drugs because I am trying to remain "clean" and I just take my psych meds and bupe. Since bupe is the only thing I have to look forward to I make myself crave it more and more even though it doesn't get me high in the slightest (at best a small "glow).

I used to get high as hell on bupe when I had a low tolerance to opiates (40mg oxy, 60mg morphine plugged, etc). Then I got on black tar IV and my tolerance never recovered. Even after kicking bupe, I only got that classic bupe high for like 1 or 2 days max and then a glow for a while (a few weeks to months) then I got back into not really feeling anything which is where I am at often. I know its in my system and I should feel it but I just don't anymore. When I think it will work it does but it's hard to convince myself that it will work.

This drug is wonderful but its also a curse because the withdrawals are horrible for me and lasted months but while I am on it I am much more stable and I haven't used any other opiate in over 18 months.. I have only used opiates 4-6x in the last 4 years, after going to rehab and getting off heroin and put officially on sub maintenance (not just coping sub on the street). So I have come a long way and I don't give myself credit. I just wish I "felt" it more so I constantly focus on lowering the dose. Ideally I would be on 0.2 twice a day. Screw it. I am not going to stress about it anymore. I will feel this 2.0mg dose and that's that. I feel it already. I have to! lol

I have tried to do this so many times and I can never make it. I'm hovering around 6 mg a day and can't seem to get any lower. I have read so many people post about how the benefits of the drug really come out under 2 mg a day, but I can't seem to get there. I also drug test every 28 days and have to bump my dose up for a couple days to keep my prescribed dose of 20 mg/day (I'm trying to build a stockpile bc my dr does not allow positive test for weed).

I stupidly took a vacation... Took 2 90 mg doses of oxy which I barely felt. Last time I way overshot my tolerance (took 240 mg of the new oxys) and I thought I could get by on 90 mg of the IR roxys, guess I was wrong. I caught a mild buzz but it wasn't really worth it. I usually do this once a month, but it gets less and less worth it to me... I can't find h here, and I don't seem to get much in the way of euphoria of oxys anymore, either nothing, or I just nod the WHOLE time. There's no in between.

Anyways, since I did this, bupe doesn't seem to be holding me as well... I waited 21 hrs which is longer than normal for me, took 4 mg, then ANOTHER 4, and I'm still very restless, can't sleep. One day of oxy, just 2 90 mg doses (10 hours apart) couldn't have raised my tolerance very much, right? It's way less than what I used to do when I started bupe, but back then I needed 16 mg (I was doing 4-500 mg oxy a dose, or depending on the gear, 6-8 bags at a time). This just isn't making sense to me.

Also, is anyone else on bupe freezing all the time? Even when I do catch a slight buzz off my dose (I do occasionally, usually off 3 mg), I am still always cold. And for that matter, why is it that sometimes I will catch a buzz off a dose, and other times, nothing? If I could find a way to get that slight buzz off all my doses, I think I'd be content to just stay on the bupe and forget the vacations.

 

[THECATINTHEHAT]

Why would you do the same as Owen? What works for one may not work for another. Dropping off 24mgs is adding a whole lot of unnecessary stress to soneone its not a good idea at all in my opinion Evey.

I have shit I need to get done, I didn't have time for a long taper. Anyway, the long taper would have been more painful for me I reckon anyway.

Anyway, reporting back on this I'm on day 25 after coming off at 24mg and I'm almost through the acutes. One or two more sleeps and I reckon I'll be done. I was extremely well prepared for this detox across the board though, I wouldn't recommend trying it if you're not. Medicines are only one part of the picture but at my disposal I have had:

quitiapine
promethazine
melatonin
zopiclone
zolpidem
etizolam
diazepam
dihydrocodeine (which I basically used all in one blas on a single day around the day 10 mark)
lofexidine
buscopan
pregabelin
cannabis
cannabis oil

Anyway, off at 24mg, pretty much done. Why fuck around for the next year trying to taper when I can do it in a month and move on with my life? That's the way I looked at it.

 

[The Doc.]

^^^right on man good for you that's quite the arsenal of opiate withdrawal medication you got there. Ya I see what you mean but for me I would think tapering is better I'm I'm no rush..

 

[The Doc.]

I have tried to do this so many times and I can never make it. I'm hovering around 6 mg a day and can't seem to get any lower. I have read so many people post about how the benefits of the drug really come out under 2 mg a day, but I can't seem to get there. I also drug test every 28 days and have to bump my dose up for a couple days to keep my prescribed dose of 20 mg/day (I'm trying to build a stockpile bc my dr does not allow positive test for weed).

I stupidly took a vacation... Took 2 90 mg doses of oxy which I barely felt. Last time I way overshot my tolerance (took 240 mg of the new oxys) and I thought I could get by on 90 mg of the IR roxys, guess I was wrong. I caught a mild buzz but it wasn't really worth it. I usually do this once a month, but it gets less and less worth it to me... I can't find h here, and I don't seem to get much in the way of euphoria of oxys anymore, either nothing, or I just nod the WHOLE time. There's no in between.

Anyways, since I did this, bupe doesn't seem to be holding me as well... I waited 21 hrs which is longer than normal for me, took 4 mg, then ANOTHER 4, and I'm still very restless, can't sleep. One day of oxy, just 2 90 mg doses (10 hours apart) couldn't have raised my tolerance very much, right? It's way less than what I used to do when I started bupe, but back then I needed 16 mg (I was doing 4-500 mg oxy a dose, or depending on the gear, 6-8 bags at a time). This just isn't making sense to me.

Also, is anyone else on bupe freezing all the time? Even when I do catch a slight buzz off my dose (I do occasionally, usually off 3 mg), I am still always cold. And for that matter, why is it that sometimes I will catch a buzz off a dose, and other times, nothing? If I could find a way to get that slight buzz off all my doses, I think I'd be content to just stay on the bupe and forget the vacations.

hey there haven't seen you around for a long time welcome back

I too get so cold all the time on sub and it only goes away when I dose then 4-6 hours later im freezing cold and just feeling my body going all out of whack which is why I dose every 6 hours to keep me comfortable like when I wake up around 6 am after doing a sub last at around 8pm the night before ill be freezing my ass off all morning till the dose kicks in then it starts to go away but I still feel more sensitive than I should be I mean ive lived in Canada my whole life im used to cold but it seems the sub is making feel temputure way more than I usually do. I thought it was all this weight ive lost since being on sub but maybe its not who knows im trying to fatten myself up drinking lots of meal supplements and try to eat what I can but im just in pain with my stomach all the time so its hard.


and if you want to lower your dose you gotta suffer a bit it gets harder when on lower doses like 4mgs and under to taper as you start to feel symptoms but if you can push through the slight discomfort for a few days then you can lower your dose but you cant expect to feel totally awesome when tapering. and I don't see it going to good if you need to take 20mgs a few days a month because that screws everything up you may need to stick to 6-8 mgs until you can leave your doctor then you can taper down without worrying about going up in dose before seeing your doctor. also how much will be enough before leaving your doctor??

and vacations are stupid I agree especially on high dose bupe and if your doing oxys or other pharms considering you will hardly get high cause your tolerence is so high the only thing worth it is heroin but then your bupe tolerance skyrockets and it gets harder to transition onto bupe after going back and forth a few too many times. its dumb how you cant smoke weed so you have to do oxys and shit cause the bupe isn't holding your cravings over I mean I don't know if I would still be on bupe if I couldn't smoke weed I would most likely be on methadone.

 

[THECATINTHEHAT]

To add to that, the agonist effect of bupe only continues up to doses of 4mg so in theory, you should be able to get down to there before things start to get difficult.

Psychological barrier maybe?

If you have the time to, why not do what I did, prepare yourself well and just suck it up and jump? Not easy but doable. I really got the most out of my 24mg as well, in my mouth for at least an hour every day, so it wasn't like I was just washing it all down my neck.

 

[The Doc.]

I'm thinking it psychological too most of the time with bupe it is very hard to tell whether its actually physical or psychological when it cones to withdrawal.
That would work top just detoxing off sub a week or so then trying it again.

 

[fullycaffeinated]

Thanks for the responses guys... It is aggravating, I miss smoking A LOT. I may try to find a different doctor that allows it. As it is, I drive 2 hours one way, because there are only 4 doctors where I live and they are all wait listed except a new one which charges insane fees.

Bupe is just so frustrating. Sometimes I get a great mood lift and almost a high off it. Other times, nothing. If I got that high all the time, I could probably put up with it.

I've thought about switching to methadone but don't know much about it. I also like the fact that I'm lowering my tolerance. It now takes me like a third of what it took before to get high from h or oxys.

If I could smoke weed I'd feel great every day, I know because I did it til I almost got kicked out.

*edit- also, does bupe pin your pupils the same way as full agonists? I always use pupil size to gauge whether I'm high, whether I'm ending, etc but it doesn't always seem bupe pins my pupils even if I feel effects.

 

[Pill__Head]

I always get NOTHING from bupe...such a crappy drug IMO, it just doest work for me. If it aint full Agonist, it aint right.

 

[daveykronick]

Thanks for the responses guys... It is aggravating, I miss smoking A LOT. I may try to find a different doctor that allows it. As it is, I drive 2 hours one way, because there are only 4 doctors where I live and they are all wait listed except a new one which charges insane fees.

Bupe is just so frustrating. Sometimes I get a great mood lift and almost a high off it. Other times, nothing. If I got that high all the time, I could probably put up with it.

I've thought about switching to methadone but don't know much about it. I also like the fact that I'm lowering my tolerance. It now takes me like a third of what it took before to get high from h or oxys.

If I could smoke weed I'd feel great every day, I know because I did it til I almost got kicked out.

What dose are you on? I ask because even at just 2mg my tolerance stayed the same (on the high side, .2g to .3g of heroin IV per dose) and at 4mg my tolerance seemed to almost increase but that was probably just the blockade effect. I bet if I was in bupe withdrawals my tolerance would be quite low though.. When I relapsed after having my wisdom teeth pulled out it took me 2-3 days off before I could even get high and after 5 days without bupe my tolerance was just as high or higher than before..

Today I took between 2.4-3.0mg sublingually after having rinsed with alcohol-based mouthwash and put into a h20 solution (about 1ml). I am aware that I have increased the biavailability so it probably would be like 4mg or more compared to how I usually take it (crush with teeth and pain mouth and under the tongue with the powder/paste).

What do you guys personally believe the ceiling is? 32mg? 4mg? 8mg? I want to say its 4mg sub-l or about 1mg IV, 2-3mg intranasal or plugged or in alcoholic solution. I am always tempted to re-dose and go past the 4mg mark but when I do I regret it because the side-effects become more pronounced (especially headache and nausea).

 

[d1ahp]

I always get NOTHING from bupe...such a crappy drug IMO, it just doest work for me. If it aint full Agonist, it aint right.

Yep, once you get your tolerance up there with full agonists, Suboxone has zero recreational value. Though for most people, Suboxone isn't about recreation, it's a tool to help them change their lifestyle.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

You can say hi to him in Sober Living

Kratom is compatible with suboxone

 

[Pill__Head]

no thanks... im not tryng to live sober... its either methadone or heroin..