Really Nice Codeine Thread

[mydrugbuddy]

Good luck with that one.

Sigh.... it's not about the WD affects or the strength of the drugs. You need to deal with this, MDB. You've a major addiction issue and switching between stuff isn't gna change that. I'll E-mail you tomorrow, having a drink at mo xxxx

PPS: From personal experience any form of pure codeine will make things worst. You're just kidding yourself

Evey

I disagree. It may be completely unorthodox, but for me it is all about the severity and duration of the w/d effects.

Right now i dont feel up to handling a month long severe mood drop from quitting kratom. It makes all the sense in the world to switch to something with a lesser w/d profile. (Like 2 weeks of codeine use, i first had that after my burn injury last year and the w/ds from a short codeine run - about a week in the hospital and then a few days longer when i got out, were very mild.) Plus I will be tapering and not bingeing. That is where i went wrong last time, and as C24 says i need to remember that im not taking the codeine for fun, but using it to taper.

I also have a fair bit of codeine experience by now too, and id much rather deal with the w/ds from 2 weeks of codeine use than 9 months of kratom use. (the worst of those w/ds will be in the first 4 weeks, and i believe this method that im gonna try would mask the kratom w/ds. Ive already decided that this is what im going to try. If it doesnt work i wont be any worse off than i am currently anyway, as i can just get back on the kratom again. Theres nothing to loose and everything to gain. The only thing im not sure about is if this plan will just delay the onset of PAWS and i might still get hit with it anyway, but i belive the plan will get me through the wort of things, and belief is what its all about.

Switching substances can help, id much rather quit a short acting opi with a brief w.d syndrome than quit a long lasting opi like poppy pods where the w/ds are about as bad as they can be, mainly becuase they go on for so long.

 

[BigG]

While on paper it makes sense that you hope to mask the kratom withdrawl with codeine for 2 weeks them taper the codeine and only have codeine withdrawl.to contend with. In practice it works slightly different as your body is still withdrawing from opiates in general and the logic you describe doesn't quite play out like that.

You have three different types of opiate receptors in your body, mu, kappa and delta (there are others but these are the main ones) and opiates stimulate one or more of these (most powerful opiates are mu receptor agonists) although drugs like bupe are mu receptor ANTAGONISTS and agonists at the kappa receptor instead. I'm unsure as to kratoms mode of action but since codeine is mainly active after its conversion to morphine it can be mainly regarded as a mu receptor agonist.

Your body doesn't "see" different drugs like kratom, codeine, morphine, methadone etc simply feels the effects of the stimulation of the different opiate receptors. This is why the logic you describe doesn't quite hold up in practice...

Having said that though, I think it is a good plan. Due to the nature of half life and receptor affinity, I think the strategy describe will certainly minimise withdrawl but not eliminate them. Your probably better off doing what you describe than just stopping the kratom dead....

Good luck and let us know how you get on

 

[Eveleivibe]

time for some SUB0XONE!!!!!!

EVEY

 

[mydrugbuddy]

Cheers Englandz.

Im planning to do this in April, I will start at easter, and take some time off work for when im first opi free again so I'll have time to hopefully get a lot of aerobic exercise done and hopefully start stimulating the release of my natural endorphins with that. Plus the snooker world champioships will be on, which will also help distract me. Boredom is one of the greatest enemies when trying to quit anything.

 

[Eveleivibe]

I'll read all this in the morning. I see that englandz' made a post. Well he knows his stuff so yea......

Evey

 

[BigG]

That sounds like a good plan. As with anything in life having a good plan and then sticking to it is half the battle won straight away. So many people just charge head on into stuff with no plan at all and just hope for the best which is why they fail.

Just remember to stick rigidly to your taper.... Especially when it star-studde
starts to feel feel tough and minor WDs start to kick in. It's at that point that if you stick to your plan you'll get through with minor discomfort but it you cave in then.. You're back at square one.

You sound like you've got it all in order but remember things like hydration, nutrition and supplements can help a lot too. I was gonna also suggest a benzo for sleep but IIRC you're already using those lol!

If you could get some pregabalin and clonidine that would really help too...

 

[mydrugbuddy]

i already have those things lol. Apparently clonidine can be a bit dodgy if used improperly, so I'll be busy researching that. Cheers again for the encouragement and support. I must now also try to get some sleep as im working all weekend. So goodnight mate, and i hope that you can get back to sleep.

 

[Allein]

No I haven't. Lets resume this convo 6 months time. Don't say I never tried to help.

I'm two years suboxone due to getting the pure codeine tablets. I know what I'm talking about. No offense but I'm a bit more aware of MDB's situation and that's why I'm concerned over this. He n I E-mail a far bit....

Evey

YMMV thats all, I was on morphine (mostly but codeine as well) day in day out for the best part of 3 years, I cut down over 3 weeks and then just stopped, I was on at least 100mg a day, not a big habit but a habit none the less.

I drank a minimum or a 750ml bottle of scotch dialy for over 2 years and for most of that time was taking anywhere from 100 to 300mg of diaz daily, I ceased the drink CT and tapered the diaz.

Its not a question of that making me a better or stronger person than anyone else, it's a combination of how I chose to deal with those things, the way I am personally and the specific circumstances.

Despite my small successes mentioned above I continue to use and abuse drugs inevitably to my own detriment, IMHO all the responsibility for the fallout of these things are firmly my fault and it is only me that can cease them if I so chose to do, there are people that have ceased enormous habits with no or little assistance its no mystery you just stop ingesting them, accepting the odd substance that requires and more controlled reduction, but the principle still holds.

From a purely physical point of view you could have just stopped taking codeine, from what I gather you felt unable to do that so a doctor prescribed you something to help the transition to ceasing opiates. I dont find it at all odd that someone who's had a heavy Heroin problem finds it hard to get their head around that, theyve probable been in lean times and suffered a rattle worse than anything you would have done from from you =r 600-900mg a day codeine hait.

I don't see that as judgmental just people being honest.....,or 'not fake' that kind od reaction happens to others all the time over different things, I spoke to an old school friend last year that lost most of one leg in a motorcycle racing accident, I said how much pain I was in and how little mobility I had and he pretty much told me to suck it up and get on with things, I'm of the view he was spot on

 

[Eveleivibe]

No offence but it's not a competition over who has been through worst or had the worst addiction issue. I'm aware that I've had it easy in comparison to others; I've not been homeless, jailed etc. i've seen people who've been through a hell of a lot due to their Heroin addictions in the recovery group; lost their kids all sort. A friend was drinking regularly n my ex best mate shopped her to the social (they're family). I need to read through a few of these posts n will comment when done so. I felt guilty for a long time for going to the group as my issues are not that bad n I felt someone else is better going there. But my key worker said it's good for me to go as I could have gone down that road but did something about it before I ended up there, something like that. I wasn't just taking 900 daily I was drinking 2-3 bottles wine / bottle of spirit a night too but have stopped this since. But again its not about who's addiction is worst it's about helping one another.

Cheers Englandz.

Im planning to do this in April, I will start at easter, and take some time off work for when im first opi free again so I'll have time to hopefully get a lot of aerobic exercise done and hopefully start stimulating the release of my natural endorphins with that. Plus the snooker world champioships will be on, which will also help distract me. Boredom is one of the greatest enemies when trying to quit anything.

Good luck, MDB, I believe you can do this.

Add on,

No I haven't. Lets resume this convo 6 months time. Don't say I never tried to help.

Evey

This came out arragont n harsh. Sorry I didn't intend to come across like that. From reading your post, quoted below, it sounds like you know what you're doing. It makes a lot of sense n I wish you the very best of luck. You know I'm always at the end of E-mail if you ever need support, to talk or owt. I think you've come a long way, MDB - hope that doesn't seem patronising. I think you've turned things around n made positive steps in your life.

I disagree. It may be completely unorthodox, but for me it is all about the severity and duration of the w/d effects.

Right now i dont feel up to handling a month long severe mood drop from quitting kratom. It makes all the sense in the world to switch to something with a lesser w/d profile. (Like 2 weeks of codeine use, i first had that after my burn injury last year and the w/ds from a short codeine run - about a week in the hospital and then a few days longer when i got out, were very mild.) Plus I will be tapering and not bingeing. That is where i went wrong last time, and as C24 says i need to remember that im not taking the codeine for fun, but using it to taper.

I also have a fair bit of codeine experience by now too, and id much rather deal with the w/ds from 2 weeks of codeine use than 9 months of kratom use. (the worst of those w/ds will be in the first 4 weeks, and i believe this method that im gonna try would mask the kratom w/ds. Ive already decided that this is what im going to try. If it doesnt work i wont be any worse off than i am currently anyway, as i can just get back on the kratom again. Theres nothing to loose and everything to gain. The only thing im not sure about is if this plan will just delay the onset of PAWS and i might still get hit with it anyway, but i belive the plan will get me through the wort of things, and belief is what its all about.

Switching substances can help, id much rather quit a short acting opi with a brief w.d syndrome than quit a long lasting opi like poppy pods where the w/ds are about as bad as they can be, mainly becuase they go on for so long.

As above. An E-mail is coming about summit else

Evey

 

[Rachella666]

Im addicted to codeine, sadly up to 300mg a day, also tapenadol Palexia and neurofen plus, i feel no buzz off the codeine now so i need to start tapering, bloody doctor got me hookef ?

 

[Eveleivibe]

Ive got a codeine addiction thread. You're welcome to use it any time you need support x

Evey

 

[curious_24]

Im addicted to codeine, sadly up to 300mg a day, also tapenadol Palexia and neurofen plus, i feel no buzz off the codeine now so i need to start tapering, bloody doctor got me hookef ?

I cold turkeyed from 1500mg a day and although it was nasty, it wasn't the end of the world. I managed to sleep every night and the worst was over by the end of day three.

Weed helped me immensely. If you smoke I'd suggest getting a quarter in to see you through.

I'm back on the codeine now but at a decently reduced doseage. Unlike before, the withdrawals don't terrify me, it's more the psychological cravings keeping me hooked.

Good luck.

 

[BigG]

Compared to fentanyl or methadone codeine WDs are not that bad....

Of course compared to being well they are awful so it's all perspective really. Depending on the underlying cause of your codeine addiction and the existence of possible mental health problems as an underlying cause I wouldn't recommend substitution therapy for codeine. I know Evey went on to suboxone but every case is different and she did what her doctors thought was best for her at the time....certainly if you just can't stop and are having to resort to ingesting dangerous amounts of paracetamol or ibuprofen to get your codeine (I.e. aren't doing CWEs) then substitution therapy is probably necessary and could be a potential life saver....for most however it's probably better to just stop...

 

[cmpetr2k]

I've been in active addiction, on and off but mostly on, for about 28 years. Im a poly-substance abuser, basically a self-medicator. I suffer from mental disorders which I was born with. I believe I was born an addict, the trait being passed down to me genetically. I've been in 4 in-patient treatment facilities, many out-patient therapies, hospitals, jails, prisons, etc. It's safe to say I have a great deal of experience with addiction. Opiates are a major crutch for me. I can tell you from experience that when you try to quit on your own, whether it be cold turkey or substituting one drug for another for the purpose of easing withdrawal or just because you consider it to be the lesser of the other evils, YOU WILL FAIL. You will always go back, if you are even able to quit at all. The only real solution is a long-term drug addiction treatment in a controled environment with professionals who will educate you on how to live life as an addict without using.That's because if you are an addict, you will always be an addict. Even if you never use again, you will always be in danger of relapse for the rest of your life. Even after you complete a long-term in-patient program and learn all you need to know and are drug free and ready to start a new life, you will need to work a program designed to treat your addiction until the day you die. Anything less and your only fooling yourself.

 

[joe90]

I've been in active addiction, on and off but mostly on, for about 28 years. Im a poly-substance abuser, basically a self-medicator. I suffer from mental disorders which I was born with. I believe I was born an addict, the trait being passed down to me genetically. I've been in 4 in-patient treatment facilities, many out-patient therapies, hospitals, jails, prisons, etc. It's safe to say I have a great deal of experience with addiction. Opiates are a major crutch for me. I can tell you from experience that when you try to quit on your own, whether it be cold turkey or substituting one drug for another for the purpose of easing withdrawal or just because you consider it to be the lesser of the other evils, YOU WILL FAIL. You will always go back, if you are even able to quit at all. The only real solution is a long-term drug addiction treatment in a controled environment with professionals who will educate you on how to live life as an addict without using.That's because if you are an addict, you will always be an addict. Even if you never use again, you will always be in danger of relapse for the rest of your life. Even after you complete a long-term in-patient program and learn all you need to know and are drug free and ready to start a new life, you will need to work a program designed to treat your addiction until the day you die. Anything less and your only fooling yourself.

Sounds very bleak...You are punishing yousrself ....

 

[BigG]

I've been in active addiction, on and off but mostly on, for about 28 years. Im a poly-substance abuser, basically a self-medicator. I suffer from mental disorders which I was born with. I believe I was born an addict, the trait being passed down to me genetically. I've been in 4 in-patient treatment facilities, many out-patient therapies, hospitals, jails, prisons, etc. It's safe to say I have a great deal of experience with addiction. Opiates are a major crutch for me. I can tell you from experience that when you try to quit on your own, whether it be cold turkey or substituting one drug for another for the purpose of easing withdrawal or just because you consider it to be the lesser of the other evils, YOU WILL FAIL. You will always go back, if you are even able to quit at all. The only real solution is a long-term drug addiction treatment in a controled environment with professionals who will educate you on how to live life as an addict without using.That's because if you are an addict, you will always be an addict. Even if you never use again, you will always be in danger of relapse for the rest of your life. Even after you complete a long-term in-patient program and learn all you need to know and are drug free and ready to start a new life, you will need to work a program designed to treat your addiction until the day you die. Anything less and your only fooling yourself.

I think you're generalising a bit there. Just because you failed doesn't mean EVERYONE will fail. Many people just stop..... And that's it. I'm not saying everyone should just do that but to say it's impossible to just stop is wrong I'm afraid.

 

[Eveleivibe]

YMMY (dunno what that actually stands for, Shambles did tell me once n sleep, time n all that malarky).

Different strokes for different folks. I can't tell you if maintenance works. I've been on it almost two years, am reducing n am starting to experience old addict behaviour (cravings; wanting to try other drugs etc). That something I'll have to look at n do some self-analysis. So I cannot truly argue that maintenance does or does not work.

However, it has worked for some. Rehab has worked for others. I was reading a story about a girl addicted to crystal meth n she went to rehab for a whole year to get over it. Some go taper / cold turkey.

If you've over-come addiction then well done that really is ace n I'm show you'll inspire us. But we're all different n react different to treatments etc.

Evey

 

[BigG]

It's YMMV Evey... Stands for "your mileage may vary" meaning different people will get differing amounts out of something.

I think the thing is that we are all different and substitution works for some, rehab works for some, therapy works for some and just plain stopping doing it works for some....

There is no one solution and saying "YOU WILL FAIL" is plain wrong as some folk won't fail and that has been proven many times IRL.

 

[Eveleivibe]

It's YMMV Evey... Stands for "your mileage may vary" meaning different people will get differing amounts out of something.

I think the thing is that we are all different and substitution works for some, rehab works for some, therapy works for some and just plain stopping doing it works for some....

There is no one solution and saying "YOU WILL FAIL" is plain wrong as some folk won't fail and that has been proven many times IRL.

Tthank you - and your post is bang on. Totally agree.

Evey

 

[Dark Side]

I think you're generalising a bit there. Just because you failed doesn't mean EVERYONE will fail. Many people just stop..... And that's it. I'm not saying everyone should just do that but to say it's impossible to just stop is wrong I'm afraid.

I agree, totally depends on the person though. I understand what he means by born to be an addict. Some people just are and i've always had an addictive personality, is it really drugs we are addicted to... or just the need to escape reality? I think its reality and drugs are the easiest way to do that. Or we want to escape the flaws in our character, the older you get the less you are intrigued with them and would rather cover them up with drugs.

I remember an article with russell brand where he was asked "when did you last feel like using?" and he replies "Yesterday" Yet you would think someone with his Character, looks and wealth would be happy as larry right? Yet he still craves H

The world isn't very black and white thats for sure, human beings just crave Nothingness and we are in our most happy state when we are not thinking because we cannot inflict pain on our self, its why people drink themselves stupid and use smack.
Alcohol is like self harm for some people though... especially those who suffer from bi polar. I think some people drink just to to feel pain as you cant do without pain.

I think too much and do to little.

Imaginary pains are by far the most real we suffer, since we feel a constant need for them and invent them because there is no way of doing without them.
Emile M. Cioran