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Other dimensions

I don't think many people really took What the Bleep Do We Know to heart...it sums up a few theories nicely, gives you some stuff to think about, and is entertaining, but I don't think people are taking it as fact. It's just a fun movie for those with a taste for deeper thought.
 
^right, now off films and back ontopic?

money spent on hard energy propulsion systems by NASA, RFSA et al to break gravity's rainbow (long distance space travel) imnsho should best be spent researching the topology of some ~23 identified 5HT2 subtypes, and discovering specifically honed pharmacological probes for same receptors, as well as others sure to be identified, and studying other neurotransmitter / TA / G-coupled / secondary messenger transmission in a controlled environment (to please the damned empiricists).

this, again, mine and some other free fringe thinkers who have the uni degrees to be able to back their point, nsho - space travel will come from within. via QE, inpart. the other dimensions are here, they require access, these can, and surely will, involve chemicals and pharmaceuticals, no matter how you look at it.

damn straight, and i am working on it.

oh yeh, and dont forget to think small...

"Science alone of all the subjects contains within itself the lesson of the danger of belief in the infallibility of the greatest teachers in the preceeding generation . . . Learn from science that you must doubt the experts. As a matter of fact, I can also define science another way: Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts." (Richard Feynman, The Pleasure of Finding Things Out (1999) p. 186-187.)

;-)
 
Uni Bum you misunderstand me. I never said they were comparable. I said or implied that quantum effects are important on small scales not large scales. See below and read some of Stenger's papers for more details about what I meant.

From a movie review for What the Bleep in SciAm

ScientificAmerican.com/December 24, 2004
By Michael Shermer

...snip

"In reality, the gap between subatomic quantum effects and large-scale macro systems is too large to bridge. In his book The Unconscious Quantum (Prometheus Books, 1995), University of Colorado physicist Victor Stenger demonstrates that for a system to be described quantum-mechanically, its typical mass (m), speed (v) and distance (d) must be on the order of Planck's constant (h). "If mvd is much greater than h, then the system probably can be treated classically." Stenger computes that the mass of neural transmitter molecules and their speed across the distance of the synapse are about two orders of magnitude too large for quantum effects to be influential. There is no micro-macro connection. Then what the #$*! is going on here? Physics envy. The lure of reducing complex problems to basic physical principles has dominated the philosophy of science since Descartes's failed attempt some four centuries ago to explain cognition by the actions of swirling vortices of atoms dancing their way to consciousness. Such Cartesian dreams provide a sense of certainty, but they quickly fade in the face of the complexities of biology. We should be exploring consciousness at the neural level and higher, where the arrow of causal analysis points up toward such principles as emergence and self-organization. Biology envy. "
 
nanobrain said:
^right, now off films and back ontopic?

money spent on hard energy propulsion systems by NASA, RFSA et al to break gravity's rainbow (long distance space travel) imnsho should best be spent researching the topology of some ~23 identified 5HT2 subtypes, and discovering specifically honed pharmacological probes for same receptors, as well as others sure to be identified, and studying other neurotransmitter / TA / G-coupled / secondary messenger transmission in a controlled environment (to please the damned empiricists).

this, again, mine and some other free fringe thinkers who have the uni degrees to be able to back their point, nsho - space travel will come from within. via QE, inpart. the other dimensions are here, they require access, these can, and surely will, involve chemicals and pharmaceuticals, no matter how you look at it.

damn straight, and i am working on it.

oh yeh, and dont forget to think small...

"Science alone of all the subjects contains within itself the lesson of the danger of belief in the infallibility of the greatest teachers in the preceeding generation . . . Learn from science that you must doubt the experts. As a matter of fact, I can also define science another way: Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts." (Richard Feynman, The Pleasure of Finding Things Out (1999) p. 186-187.)

;-)

I totally agree. I'm not a physicist, nor do I have a great understanding of deep topics like QM (although they facinate me greatlly) (only have a diploma in electronics and omputer systems), but throught work with programing and logic, I found the brain to be similar in operation to a computer but at the same time realising it is much much more then just a self learning celular platform.

I beleive trying to figure out exacttly the way the brain functions will be of much greater value then spending time on expanding current methods of space travel. Hopefully one day we will be able to harness the munipulation of energy (on a molecular level or greater).

Love the thread keep it up guys:D
 
Wow, I haven't been online for awahile, good to see this generated a bit of interest. A big middle finger to the nuff-nuffs that tried to bag me for not being as 'smart' (or boring) as them. Overall, psychedelics have taught me that life is NOT to be taken very seriously. I mean, if behind all these cloaks of reality there's a pack of elves dancing around, I'm proetty sure we're barking up the wrong tree with wormholes, qaurks, dark matter, Q theory ( or whatever) The best wormhole I have is my mind, why not explore that? Its enlightening and very cheeky when left to itself.

I have thought this for a long time, my first breaktrough salvia trip ended with me rattling around my room, trying to pull things of my (plastic/white/checkered)skin and speaking basically in tongues. I felt almost embarassed doing this in front of Lady Salvia (you know the strange matriarch salvia takes you too) because the feeling of personal contact was so strong. Thus my query. Keep it going, I'd like to hear some less scientific, and more mystical viewpoints on this subject (but some science too)
 
nanobrain said:
money spent on hard energy propulsion systems by NASA, RFSA et al to break gravity's rainbow (long distance space travel) imnsho should best be spent researching the topology of some ~23 identified 5HT2 subtypes, and discovering specifically honed pharmacological probes for same receptors, as well as others sure to be identified, and studying other neurotransmitter / TA / G-coupled / secondary messenger transmission in a controlled environment (to please the damned empiricists).

;-)

so wtf do 5HT2 receptors have to do with long distance space travel? link to a study or something? I checked out some of those links you sent me but it's still all theories/little empirical evidence so your still basing your assumptions on faith.
 
@Subdefy What exactly do you believe in?

@nanobrain
Thanks for opening this door, further for me. I can't articulate this concept yet but I will learn the language.

Wouldn't it be nice, something as simple as being able to go within and grab onto a frequency wave so to be able to travel to where ever our mind can visualize into existence.

Otherwise I'll accept the fact that i just put my foot into my mouth.
 
nanobrain said:
actions rather than assumptions. intuition rather than faith.

isn't intuition faith of the mind? and what actions are you speaking of?

btw gravity's rainbow is a fictional book and can you show me some proof how the 5HT2 receptors contribute to this long distance space travel based on empirical evidence. Some sort of citation, not some intuition because I'm sure there are some schitzophrenics (sp?) wanting to share their intuition with me but it means nothing because there is no proof.


and to Toletec I would say my beliefs if you were to label them would be closest to Buddhism as in I believe in enlightenment but no deity, I am still learning more and more about it but it is the most capatible with my beliefs. I am also Agnostic which is equally compatible with Buddhism from what I've been reading.
 
hi guys, just found some light reading for ya, not really bout psychadelics, bout about alternate universes

Our Universe: Outrageous fortune
Geoff Brumfiel1

Geoff Brumfiel is Nature's physical sciences Washington correspondent.


Top of pageAbstractA growing number of cosmologists and string theorists suspect the form of our Universe is little more than a coincidence. Are these harmless thought experiments, or a challenge to science itself? Geoff Brumfiel investigates.

Why are we here? It's a question that has troubled philosophers, theologians and those who've had one drink too many. But theoretical physicists have a more essentialist way of asking the question: why is there anything here at all?

For two decades now, theorists in the think-big field of cosmology have been stymied by a mathematical quirk in their equations. If the number controlling the growth of the Universe since the Big Bang is just slightly too high, the Universe expands so rapidly that protons and neutrons never come close enough to bond into atoms. If it is just ever-so-slightly too small, it never expands enough, and everything remains too hot for even a single nucleus to form. Similar problems afflict the observed masses of elementary particles and the strengths of fundamental forces.

In other words, if you believe the equations of the world's leading cosmologists, the probability that the Universe would turn out this way by chance are infinitesimal — one in a very large number. "It's like you're throwing darts, and the bullseye is just one part in 10120 of the dart board," says Leonard Susskind, a string theorist based at Stanford University in California. "It's just stupid."

One in a zillion
Physicists have historically approached this predicament with the attitude that it's not just dumb luck. In their view, there must be something underlying and yet-to-be-discovered setting the value of these variables. "The idea is that we have got to work harder because some principle is missing," says David Gross, a Nobel-prizewinning theorist and director of the Kavli Institute for Theoretical Physics in Santa Barbara, California.

But things have changed in the past few years, says astronomer Bernard Carr of Queen Mary, University of London, UK. String theorists and cosmologists are increasingly turning to dumb luck as an explanation. If their ideas stand up, it would mean the constants of nature are meaningless. "In the past, many people were almost violently opposed to that idea because it wasn't seen as proper science," Carr says. "But there's been a change of attitude."

Much of that change stems from work showing that our Universe may not be unique. Since the early 1980s, some cosmologists have argued that multiple universes could have formed during a period of cosmic inflation that preceded the Big Bang. More recently, string theorists have calculated that there could be 10500 universes, which is more than the number of atoms in our observable Universe. Under these circumstances, it becomes more reasonable to assume that several would turn out like ours. It's like getting zillions and zillions of darts to throw at the dart board, Susskind says. "Surely, a large number of them are going to wind up in the target zone." And of course, we exist in our particular Universe because we couldn't exist anywhere else.

It's an intriguing idea with just one problem, says Gross: "It's impossible to disprove." Because our Universe is, almost by definition, everything we can observe, there are no apparent measurements that would confirm whether we exist within a cosmic landscape of multiple universes, or if ours is the only one. And because we can't falsify the idea, Gross says, it isn't science. Or at least, it isn't science in any conventional sense of the word. "I think Gross sees this as science taking on some of the traits of religion," says Carr. "In a sense he's correct, because things like faith and beauty are becoming a component of the discussion."

And yet in the overlapping circles of cosmology and string theory, the concept of a landscape of universes is becoming the dominant view. "I really hope we have a better idea in the future," says Juan Maldacena, a string theorist at the Institute for Advanced Study in Princeton, New Jersey, summing up the views of many in the field. "But this idea of a landscape is the best we have today." The stakes are high: string theorists know that pursuing an unverifiable theory could look like desperation, but they fear that looking for meaning in a meaningless set of numbers may be equally fruitless.

Kepler's error
At the core of this dilemma is a concept known as the anthropic principle: the idea that things appear the way they do because we live at a certain spot in the Universe. It's not a new concept, and has previously been regarded more as philosophy than science.

But some scientists say that it offers a useful change of perspective. "It's very important to take into account stuff like this, or you can come to completely incorrect conclusions about the Universe," argues Max Tegmark, a cosmologist at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Cambridge. "For example, you might assume our Solar System is typical, but a typical point in space is some intergalactic void where you can't see a single star."

Failing to consider our observational location has burned scientists in the past. The sixteenth-century German astronomer Johannes Kepler spent years trying to understand what seemed to be the even, geometrical spacing of our planets from the Sun. Kepler searched for meaning in the planets because he thought our Solar System was unique; today's scientists understand that our Solar System is but one of probably billions in the Galaxy. Under such circumstances it seems reasonable to assume the planets are spaced according to little more than random chance.

In much the same way as Kepler worried about planetary orbits, cosmologists now puzzle over numbers such as the cosmological constant, which describes how quickly the Universe expands. The observed value is so much smaller than existing theories suggest, and yet so precisely constrained by observations, that theorists are left trying to figure out a deeper meaning for why the cosmological constant has the value it does.

Many are still searching for some great unifying theory that would explain these variables. But others have started to believe that, like Kepler, today's physicists are looking for meaning where there is none. "In recent years, it was looking more and more to me like the laws of nature were environmental," says Susskind, who has just written a book making this argument (L. Susskind The Cosmic Landscape: String Theory and the Illusion of Intelligent Design. Little Brown, 2005). He suspects that there are many universes, all with different values for these variables. Just as human life had to evolve on a planet with water, he says, perhaps we also had to evolve in a Universe where atoms could form.

Until recently, Susskind was in the minority. Hints of multiple universes, however, were given by a cosmological theory known as inflation. Inflation is the leading theory of the early Universe; it postulates that a period of rapid early expansion created the flat and uniform cosmos we see today. One version of inflation theory, devised in the early 1980s, suggests that inflation occurred even before the Big Bang. In this version, the expanding cosmos was foamy and energetic, says Steven Weinberg, a researcher at the University of Texas, Austin. "Every once in a while, one part of the Universe would expand and become a Big Bang," he says. "And these Big Bangs would all have different values for their fundamental constants."

Strings attached
In 1987, Weinberg made a prediction that turned out to support the idea of an anthropic Universe. Preliminary observations indicated that the cosmological constant was zero, but Weinberg reasoned that if the constant was constrained by our anthropic perspective then it would be small, so as not to interfere with the formation of galaxies, stars and planets, but non-zero, because it would be essentially random. "That prediction has since been confirmed by observations of supernovae and the microwave background," says Weinberg, who admits he was a reluctant convert to the idea.

The latest circumstantial arguments for multiple universes come from string theory. String theory posits that tiny strings vibrating in the fabric of space-time give rise to the multitude of particles and forces in the macroscopic Universe. Although string theory lacks experimental support, it attracts broad interest because it seems to offer a route to a grand theory of everything — a way to unify relativity with quantum mechanics.

But as theorists developed string theory, they discovered that the equations gave rise to multiple solutions, each of which represented a universe with different physical properties. "The hope always was that we would understand why one solution was picked out," says Joe Polchinski, a string theorist at the Kavli Institute. But despite their best efforts, after two decades theorists are still stuck with a million different solutions for the equations, and therefore a million potential universes.

This landscape of solutions, as it became known in the community, was both troubling and intriguing. On the one hand, the theory stubbornly refused to yield a single solution resembling our own cosmos, but then, some argued, that might also explain the cosmological constant's apparent randomness. If these many solutions actually represent millions of universes, then the idea that one had worked out just right for us wasn't so far-fetched.

Ignorance is bliss
The snag was that one million universes wasn't enough. To explain the perfectly adjusted cosmological constant one would need at least 1060 universes, says Polchinski. Then, in 2000, he and Raphael Bousso at the Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory in Berkeley, California, calculated that there could be a lot more than a million solutions. "The calculation had such topological complexity that you could potentially get 10500 universes," Polchinski says. With so many solutions, says Weinberg, it becomes easier to imagine that we happen to live in a Universe that seems tailored for our existence.

Easy to imagine, hard to prove. Because other universes would be causally separated from our own, it seems impossible to tell whether our cosmos is the only one, or one of many. Most scientists find this disturbing. Talk of a Universe fine-tuned for life has already attracted supporters of intelligent design, who claim that an intelligent force shaped evolution. If there's no way to tell whether the values of scientific constants are a coincidence, the movement's followers argue, then why not also consider them evidence of God's handiwork?

The anthropic reasoning behind the landscape of universes is disturbing on another level, says Gross. Most theories grow stronger with each observation that matches their predictions. However, for the anthropic principle, random chance is the main factor. Patterns and correlations, the stones from which scientific theories are built, weaken it. In other words, he says: "The power of the principle is strongest where you have ignorance."

That may be, but measurements that could support anthropic reasoning are in the works. In 2007, researchers at Europe's CERN particle physics centre in Geneva, Switzerland, will turn on the Large Hadron Collider, a massive accelerator that will probe particle energies never before seen by researchers. The accelerator might detect so-called supersymmetric particles, predicted by some as a way of unifying the strong and weak nuclear forces with the electromagnetic force, an important step in uniting all the forces of physics within a single theory.

These particles could also hint at whether we live in one of many universes, says Nima Arkani-Hamed, a string theorist at Harvard University in Cambridge, Massachusetts. If the collider detects certain types of super-symmetric particles, he says, it will indicate another fine-tuning in the cosmos — the ratio of the weak nuclear force to the strength of gravity. The anthropic argument is the same: if the number was off by as little as one part in 1030, then we would not be here to discuss it.

It might seem that the detection of a second, perfectly tuned number would only exacerbate the debate, but Arkani-Hamed argues that it will have the opposite effect. Unlike the cosmological constant, which has had a controversial history even in cosmology, this fine-tuning would appear in the standard model, which most physicists consider to be the most complete physical theory ever developed and tested. It would strengthen the case for the arbitrary nature of certain fundamental constants, Arkani-Hamed contends: "These measurements wouldn't directly prove or disprove the landscape, but they would be a very big push in that direction."

Leap of faith
Still, many scientists distrust the concept and continue to seek alternative explanations. Among them is Lisa Randall, also at Harvard. Randall suspects that multiple universes are a mirage resulting from the unrefined equations of string theory. "You really need to explore alternatives before taking such radical leaps of faith," she contends. And with no foreseeable way to detect other universes, Gross feels that such leaps of faith should not be taken. "I feel that it's a rather extreme conclusion to reach at this point," he says.

Susskind, too, finds it "deeply, deeply troubling" that there's no way to test the principle. But he is not yet ready to rule it out completely. "It would be very foolish to throw away the right answer on the basis that it doesn't conform to some criteria for what is or isn't science," he says.

Gross believes that the emergence of multiple universes in science has its origins in theorists' 20-year struggle to explain the finely tuned numbers of the cosmos. "People in string theory are very frustrated, as am I, by our inability to be more predictive after all these years," he says. But that's no excuse for using such "bizarre science", he warns. "It is a dangerous business."




from nature online
 
SPDemon420 said:
Isnt there something (theory or the like) that says if we used even 15% of our brain we could bend spoons and the like?

The whole thing about using only 10% of your brain is a complete urban myth. Sorry.
 
nanobrain said:
^right, now off films and back ontopic?

money spent on hard energy propulsion systems by NASA, RFSA et al to break gravity's rainbow (long distance space travel) imnsho should best be spent researching the topology of some ~23 identified 5HT2 subtypes, and discovering specifically honed pharmacological probes for same receptors, as well as others sure to be identified, and studying other neurotransmitter / TA / G-coupled / secondary messenger transmission in a controlled environment (to please the damned empiricists).

this, again, mine and some other free fringe thinkers who have the uni degrees to be able to back their point, nsho - space travel will come from within. via QE, inpart. the other dimensions are here, they require access, these can, and surely will, involve chemicals and pharmaceuticals, no matter how you look at it.

damn straight, and i am working on it.

oh yeh, and dont forget to think small...

"Science alone of all the subjects contains within itself the lesson of the danger of belief in the infallibility of the greatest teachers in the preceeding generation . . . Learn from science that you must doubt the experts. As a matter of fact, I can also define science another way: Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts." (Richard Feynman, The Pleasure of Finding Things Out (1999) p. 186-187.)

;-)

Originally Posted by nanobrain
consciousness is the primary definer of reality, the collapser of the quantum probability waveform.

I tend to agree with this ^^ and the rest of what you have shared in the thread nanobrain.


Although; One day your gonna ascend (Die) everything you have conceived into reality via conscience thought will no longer exist, or will it.

From my observations the spoken word creates, attracts or repels. It seems like every thing we think, then speak, eventually happens, anything we imagine can be created. It's hard to believe that some "GOD" created all that we see.

We build, we create, we invent things into existence period.

That first paragraph of yours sure make sense. Although I feel that our conciseness live forever the body is just a tool to interact in this dimension only. There are many other dimensions and i guess frequencies we can attach on to as we journey though this endless universe we perhaps conceived from that simple question humans long ago asked~ why are we here.
my head hurts I got to go now!
Namaste
 
my opinion is that the "entity dimension" if one exists, operates at a different frequency but overlaps our universe. certain psychedelics in strong enough doses remove the filter set up by our 5 senses to protect the mind from outside influence. when the filter is stripped away temporarily we can tune into to their frequency and catch glimpes of them in their universe which they share with us. if that makes any sense
 
why the hell do you guys keep talking about frequencies? how the fuck is that going to change anything?
 
uni bum said:
why the hell do you guys keep talking about frequencies? how the fuck is that going to change anything?


maybe because brain waves are frequencies? i dunno,im not very knowledgeable on this topic being a high school drop out and all,but i have read alot alot alot on QM and entanglement and such lately and it is very intriguing stuff
 
my tripper mates and i always call the state of mind ur in on psychedelics, the 5th dimension
to explian:
-the 1st dimension is the state of nothing, emptiness
-the 2nd dimension is of course, images with no state of depth
-the 3rd dimension is how we normally see the world
-the 4th dimension is what we know is there but cant see
-the 5th dimension is what we dont know is there until our minds will accept it and allow us 2 see it......psychedelics!! =D
 
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