Opioids Methadone Mega Thread and FAQ

[sp0r412]

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=184919&r=6

 

[stuckinaloop]

just set up an appointment at a clinic....problem is, I'm out of dope today, and the appointment is saturday, so I'm worried that if I don't have dirty pee, they'll refuse to treat me

I was thinking of perhaps eating some poppy grounds on friday to make sure there's morphine in my system, but I'm not sure I'll be able to make them last until then.....what should I do? I figured I might be able to be honest with my therapist about how when I made the appointment I was at rock bottom....other than that, I might be pretty much over physical withdrawals (this isn't why I'm going, I've put a lot of thought into this) so there might be at best minimal WD symptoms when I see the doc....

any advice?

I would scrounge up enough money for one last solid shot..but thats just me. A single bag would suffice. I am not sure myself if pods will show as dope on a drug test..someone else could probably better answer that.

 

[Cane2theLeft]

^nope because drug testing discussion is not allowed (free tip - pods contain MORPHINE).

 

[haden]

I'd like to add that methadone can be much more dangerous than other opiates. I've overdosed twice from that shit. The second time I had a heart attack, went into a coma, respiratory arrest, pretty much was dead for a few minutes.

Please excuse my ignorance, but how exactly does methadone give someone a heart attack? I thought methadone deaths were caused by respiratory depression...

 

[benzico]

ive been on methedone many times over the years and even with a large habbit (5 grams a dat) 100mg will cover even that high a habbit as long as you give it 3-4 days to build up to peak blood sugar levels.

 

[benzico]

if you ever read the lable that sum times comes attached to the large bottles of methadone it says if you are perscribed this medication for pain issues. i.e a none addict (although this opiate would rarely be given) take only 5-10mg in a 24 hour period.

 

[BlueberryfishY]

i have 60 tramadol they wouldnt help at all would they , i hate to use Dope to try to get off the clinic but it may be only thing i can get ........................

Tramadol won't do anything, especially if you have been on methadone.

 

[Atlien3]

Please excuse my ignorance, but how exactly does methadone give someone a heart attack? I thought methadone deaths were caused by respiratory depression...

yea, thats a first for me too man

 

[Atlien3]

if you ever read the lable that sum times comes attached to the large bottles of methadone it says if you are perscribed this medication for pain issues. i.e a none addict (although this opiate would rarely be given) take only 5-10mg in a 24 hour period.

its not gonna touch it man

 

[ResiLienT]

the effects are almost NON EXISTANT now, up to 100mg a day, the clinic started me at 60 and i increased daily, worked like a charm for the first 3 weeks,but now the "holding dose" lost its extra ciricullar effects on me?? should i increase dosage? as i can, or maybe would it be better if i took my dosage every OTHER day? I thought i read after 80mg it starts to loose effect and actuallt work as a blocking agent,is that true, going back DOWN would hamper me a happier man?

 

[oxymoron87]

the effects are almost NON EXISTANT now, up to 100mg a day, the clinic started me at 60 and i increased daily, worked like a charm for the first 3 weeks,but now the "holding dose" lost its extra ciricullar effects on me?? should i increase dosage? as i can, or maybe would it be better if i took my dosage every OTHER day? I thought i read after 80mg it starts to loose effect and actuallt work as a blocking agent,is that true, going back DOWN would hamper me a happier man?

yea i know what u mean im at 70mgs been going fer just under a month and the first few weeks were great but now i find that it lost some of its magic an late at nite i get watery eyes and runny nose and am very irritable all day not to mention that the cravings have seemed to return more and more

 

[love2party]

^once you get to that high of a dose, it's hard to get "extra cirucular effects" by increasing dosage.

 

[ControlDenied]

for me too , methadone lost its use after the "honeymoon period" as doctors [fuckfaces] call it. so in other words, once you build a tolernace to it, yo're back to square one or worse: hopelessly addicted to a hard opiate. solution: get off it. the methadone only held m over till night, when i would begin to get cramps and aches, the next morning full on pain, sweats, chills, extreme fatigue. why feel like that every morning? when i told my doctor he said it was all in my head. that's a doctor's way of saying "i have no solution and my arrogance prevents me from admitting that". i will get off suboxone as quick as possible because i fear after a while it will end up being the same thing [albiet much milder which is why i switched to it; i could feel methadone's grip getting frighteningly strong on me]

 

[ramsay st rider]

hi, i am on mmt. i have been at the clinic for about 10 months, which is a relatively short time compared to many people.
the highest dose i was on was 115mg. i have a very strict prescribing dr who is very conservative. as a result i only have one take home a week and i managed to convince him to let me get dosed at a pharmacy on weekends which allows me keep my job and get my dose (the clinic only dispenses from 9am to 11am on weekends). I have tried to get more take homes but two false positives haven't helped and i tested positive for benzoes twice, this doc doesnt give much leeway, otherwise i have been clean.
i have been reducing my dose by 5mg a week for a bit over 3 months against everybody's advice. the reason being that the clinic is very restrictive (i haven't left the city since i started at the clinic) and i want to leave the country for work reasons in a few months. i am down to 45mg at the moment. there are times when i find it a little tough in terms of physical discomfort, but nothing unbearable.
However these past 3 months have been an absolute emotional rollercoaster. i have lost more friends over these past 3 months than the whole time i was doing heroin, and i was stealing from these people back then. i've never had such severe bouts of depression, it's not constant but its quite severe. i seem to neglect myself more and people seem to have less patience with me. Its seems ironic that now i'm trying to better myself people are giving up on me.
i feel that it might be due to my methadone taper. there are other things that are stressing me out like girls and having next to no money after paying the rent for my shitty little room in a roach infested boarding house, but that type of thing hasnt got me so down before. i feel like that at least when i did drugs i could take a good holiday from real life, get some respite. Pot and alcohol just dont do it, not that i think they are a great solution anyway. so now i just sit up in my room reading russian novelists becoming stranger and more isolated. And im lucky: my little sister visits once or twice a week to talk and probably check up on me and report to the parents.
anyway it just seems to me that coming off the done is exacerbating any mental issues i have, has anyone else noticed this happen to them in the same situation? if so how did you deal with it? i've come off heroin a couple of times and was depressed for a bit, but this seems different.

 

[brutus]

Please excuse my ignorance, but how exactly does methadone give someone a heart attack? I thought methadone deaths were caused by respiratory depression...

Most methadone deaths are from respiratory depression and I believe at least one overdose was because of this, but methadone can also give heart attacks, here is the first search result with a source from Google.

anyway it just seems to me that coming off the done is exacerbating any mental issues i have, has anyone else noticed this happen to them in the same situation? if so how did you deal with it? i've come off heroin a couple of times and was depressed for a bit, but this seems different.

I've been using methadone and other opiates heavily for 6 years now and I have went through exactly what you are describing while trying to quit methadone, unfortunately, I cannot stop opiates and it's a shame being only 21 with my life ahead of me...

 

[SubDude]

hi, i am on mmt. i have been at the clinic for about 10 months, which is a relatively short time compared to many people.
the highest dose i was on was 115mg. i have a very strict prescribing dr who is very conservative. as a result i only have one take home a week and i managed to convince him to let me get dosed at a pharmacy on weekends which allows me keep my job and get my dose (the clinic only dispenses from 9am to 11am on weekends). I have tried to get more take homes but two false positives haven't helped and i tested positive for benzoes twice, this doc doesnt give much leeway, otherwise i have been clean.
i have been reducing my dose by 5mg a week for a bit over 3 months against everybody's advice. the reason being that the clinic is very restrictive (i haven't left the city since i started at the clinic) and i want to leave the country for work reasons in a few months. i am down to 45mg at the moment. there are times when i find it a little tough in terms of physical discomfort, but nothing unbearable.
However these past 3 months have been an absolute emotional rollercoaster. i have lost more friends over these past 3 months than the whole time i was doing heroin, and i was stealing from these people back then. i've never had such severe bouts of depression, it's not constant but its quite severe. i seem to neglect myself more and people seem to have less patience with me. Its seems ironic that now i'm trying to better myself people are giving up on me.
i feel that it might be due to my methadone taper. there are other things that are stressing me out like girls and having next to no money after paying the rent for my shitty little room in a roach infested boarding house, but that type of thing hasnt got me so down before. i feel like that at least when i did drugs i could take a good holiday from real life, get some respite. Pot and alcohol just dont do it, not that i think they are a great solution anyway. so now i just sit up in my room reading russian novelists becoming stranger and more isolated. And im lucky: my little sister visits once or twice a week to talk and probably check up on me and report to the parents.
anyway it just seems to me that coming off the done is exacerbating any mental issues i have, has anyone else noticed this happen to them in the same situation? if so how did you deal with it? i've come off heroin a couple of times and was depressed for a bit, but this seems different.

A little background first. I came back from Vietnam [1971] with a H habit and slow healing wounds. I was discharged and sent to Miami fla VA hosp where they told me about a new "miracle" drug which would treat pain, depression, and addiction all at once.... and it did, but only for awhile. About 6-8 mos later I wanted off and did a quick taper. However, I've been on and off ever since. Last time was @ 15 yrs from 1994-2009. The thing I've learned is MMT patients rarely get off for good. I've known quite a few and don't know any [still alive] who are 'clean". I've had periods as long as 5 1/2 yrs off but something always came up and I went back to the program. The last trigger was a morphine drip over 3 days while passing a kidney stone. Before that it was a divorce, lost job, and fathers death all in 6mo period.

I don't want to sound too negative but wanted to share my long-term experience. [yea i'm an old fart- 58yo] I know there's a lot of people who get off for good but i just haven't seen it. On the plus side, you can lead a fairly normal lifestyle. I graduated college, have owned 3 successful businesses, and have 6 great kids. [3 divorces though]

I'm finally getting to my point... I switched to Suboxone in 2009 and that could be an option for you. I did it because my monthly takehomes were revoked and the free VA [mmt] clinic was 90 miles away... so daily dosing wasn't feasable. I'd have to pay $420 a mo and start over from scratch with daily visits for nearby MMT. Our local VA only has Bupe. It's a completly different kind of ORT for me because I liked being able to manipulate my methadone takehomes for more energy [when needed] and with benzos for an occasional good nod. I can't get that with bupe unless I switch back and forth with other opiates. This is risky from a legal standpoint and getting kicked off the program.

Anyway, if you simply want ORT without having to go thru the daily clinic dose regime... you might want to investigate suboxone and perhaps give it a trial. Since you have no takehomes [assumming cost isn't a factor] you have nothing to lose. Not saying you can't taper off MMT and do well... just providing info and a possible alternative.

 

[ControlDenied]

for me , only 3 months on methadone was enough to make me more of an addict. mainteance is usually useful for heavy [i.e. IV] adicts, but i dont see how taking more of any opiates during or after addiction will do anything bt make you that much more "attached" to opiates in general...

 

[ramsay st rider]

you are right sub dude, most people relapse a couple of times and go back on to an ORT. MMT definitely helped me get back on track, but i've had enough is all. if ever i found myself in the same situation that landed me in an ort i think i would try bupe or move some to place where it would be hard to get into the heroin scene. Methadone maintenance did work, but as the name suggests its for maintenance, and for long term treatment. the only reason i went on it is because each time i quit i would relapse and do dangerous and risky things. i would consider staying on the methadone indefinitely if it wasn't so controlled, if drs trusted patients etc (i guess this is where bupe has its advantages).... Also i have plans to leave the country for work in a few months. That is why i'm tapering, otherwise as an ongoing treatment i think it does its job, plus puritans love it because you cant get high off other opes.
so i do agree with you subdude, but i'm determined to get off it. in the meantime it's a challenge staying sane while tapering. i guess i'll look at "strategies" to help with all the mental shit its bringing up. at first i didnt even realise that my taper might be the reason i was getting depressed crabby and ultra argumentative. i've been reading up a little and apparently regular exercice, vitamins and also projects to keep you busy and mentally sharp are the best ways to deal with this type of thing. all the really obvious things that contribute to healthy living in anyone, isn't there some wonderful kind of powder that will instantly make me feel like it's all ok? oh wait......
nd

 

[ramsay st rider]

control denied
maintenance is not a cure for addiction, it's a treatment, and like subdude pointed out, it can help people lead a regular life.
i do agree with you that the decision to go on it should not be taken lightly. Most people only go on it because their addiction was putting them in danger. Unfortunately some people turn to mmt too quickly and i'm sure they regret it, or they will.

 

[SubDude]

you are right sub dude, most people relapse a couple of times and go back on to an ORT. MMT definitely helped me get back on track, but i've had enough is all. if ever i found myself in the same situation that landed me in an ort i think i would try bupe or move some to place where it would be hard to get into the heroin scene. Methadone maintenance did work, but as the name suggests its for maintenance, and for long term treatment. the only reason i went on it is because each time i quit i would relapse and do dangerous and risky things. i would consider staying on the methadone indefinitely if it wasn't so controlled, if drs trusted patients etc (i guess this is where bupe has its advantages).... Also i have plans to leave the country for work in a few months. That is why i'm tapering, otherwise as an ongoing treatment i think it does its job, plus puritans love it because you cant get high off other opes.
so i do agree with you subdude, but i'm determined to get off it. in the meantime it's a challenge staying sane while tapering. i guess i'll look at "strategies" to help with all the mental shit its bringing up. at first i didnt even realise that my taper might be the reason i was getting depressed crabby and ultra argumentative. i've been reading up a little and apparently regular exercice, vitamins and also projects to keep you busy and mentally sharp are the best ways to deal with this type of thing. all the really obvious things that contribute to healthy living in anyone, isn't there some wonderful kind of powder that will instantly make me feel like it's all ok? oh wait......
nd

OK man you can do this if your strong and determined... and you can stay off if you replace drugs with something more important like service, love, and career. During my 5+ yrs of abstinence the thing which helped me more than anything was volunteering once a week at an in patient rehab center. They had a newcomers group which I helped lead. If you want motivation to stay sober... watch people coming [off the street] into rehab on a regular basis. That keeps you focused on whats important and what happens with relapse. NA/AA didn't work for me but that did. Again... the kidney stone/morphine drip did me in... but it didn't have too. I should have never let them hook me up to that shit.

Also find a good woman/man who doesn't fuck with anything. Starting a business also helped keep me busy... try it even if it's a home based business. You'd be surprised how much better it is working for YOU as opposed to making money for someone else.

Hopefully, their tapering your dose no more than 2mg a week and when you get down to 5mg... 1mg a week. I once knew a guy who was on 5mg for about 7-8 moz which amazed all of us. But he must of known what he was doing because he eventually got off.... though he didn't follow up with the clinic so no one knew how he did.

You probably already know the following but I'm going to throw it in anyway...

You need a detailed strategy including a lot of support from non using family/friends and guidance from addiction professional. Get in a therapy support GROUP if you can. When you make the final drop you may need some comfort meds to get your thru the first few weeks.

Here's a quick list to choose from:

CAUTIOUSLY & TEMPORARILY- Klonapin/Valium - sleep/anxiety
Clonadine- RLS- sleep
Loperimide- Immodium AD
CAUTIOUSLY & TEMPORARILY- Tramadol/Ultram
Soma- Sleep
Requip- RLS
Phenegren
Gabitril
Aleve
CAUTIOUSLY & TEMPORARILY-Kratom
Kava Kava
Chicken Soup
Warm Clothes
Hot-tub/Hot baths
Ensure/Gatorade/water
exercise

ANTI-ANXIETY

* Mulungu. Erythrina

* Kava Kava root.

* Phenibut & Theanine & alcohol

* Valerian root.

* Passion flower.

* Hydroxyzine simply for the slight sedation it induces.

* Sominex-diphenhydramine

SLEEPING MEDS:
Seroquel
CAUTIOUSLY & TEMPORARILY-Ambien
Risperdal
Trazadone
Sominex
Warm Milk
=================

Valerian Root - Great for sleep. This stuff smells really bad... but doesn't taste that bad. Don't over-do it, could have reverse effect and keep you up.. About 1 teaspoon of powdered herb or 2 tsp of ground (use a coffee grinder, works geat!)

Kava (Kava-Kava)- herbal "valium"
try to get the powdered form. About 1 TABLESPOON in boiling water... stir it up, let sit.. do it like "shooter". Works fast. be careful, this stuff is strong.

St. Johns Wort - About 1 TBL to start. Do it 2x day. Will help you rest and does wonders for the mental crap too.
===================


1) Imodium AD - and get the SYRUP - you can also get the pills or gel-caps as they will come in handy later.. you can get the generic shit too, just make sure that the ONLY active drug is loperamide hcl .. get a big bottle, hell, get 3 or 4 .. and no, it doesn't have a "pleasant cherry taste"

2) Fruit juice - carbonated beverages won't do ya a lot of good... I have done this many times, and I find some apple juice to be the drink of choice ..

3) Aleve (or generic - you want naproxen sodium) .. this will help with the muscle aches and pains ..

4) Sominex (or generic - you want diphenhydramine).. this is an OTC sleep aide that *WILL* knock you out! Now if you have benzos or some other type of tranqualizer, thats better as they have other properties that we desire - but still, pick some of this up because without it you will just toss and turn all night...

5) Soup - whatever you like, it taste the same comming up ..

===============

I borrowed some of this from another poster but it's all good and if you can get by with the non-pharma meds you will be much better off. The clonodine and seroquel worked best for me and are easier to stop than benzos, trams, and kratom. I've never used kratom personally but I've talked with a lot of people who have... you can easily get dependent on thst stuff if you aren't careful. Same with benzos/trams which I have used...

One final note... Don't forget there's no shame in relapse or not getting thru the WD's... just keep in mind [if you're in the US] you will gradually get more and more takehomes.... I had monthlys for several yrs. The less frequently you go to the clinic... the more normal you will feel. Going once a month [which took me 3 yrs of no dirty urines] feels less like your drug dependent. Depending on your state, you can usually get weekly takehomes after 9mos. Here are the FED guidelines/regs

How to Get a Take Home Dose as Soon as Possible

1.You must show (through random drug testing – a minimum of 8 instances per year) no evidence of drug abuse.
2.You must attend the clinic on your appointed schedule
3.You must show appropriate behavior
4.You must not engage in criminal activity
5.You must show a stable home and stable non drug-related relationships
6.You must promise to store take home methadone appropriately and safely
And…

1.The doctor must believe that the risks of diversion associated with giving you a take home dose of methadone are overshadowed by the benefits of easing reporting demands.
2.You must meet the minimum time in treatment regulations. (see as follows)
Essentially, you must prove to the medical staff at the clinic that you are serious about your recovery on methadone, and that you can be trusted to use methadone safely at home.

Time in Treatment Requirements
The following are mandatory minimum standards for the allowance of take home doses. You will not be allowed take home doses in excess of the following.

•Days 1-90 – A maximum of 1 scheduled take home dose per week, as well as a take home dose for one day if the clinic closes on Sunday.
•Days 90-180 – A maximum of 2 scheduled take home doses per week as wells as a take home dose for the one day a week the clinic will close.
•Days 180-270 – A maximum of 3 scheduled take home doses per week + 1 for days the clinic is closed.
•Days 270-365 – Up to 6 take home doses per week.
•Year 2 - Twice a month reporting.
•Year 3 – Once a month reporting.