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Opioids Methadone Mega Thread and FAQ

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^ that only seems to prove to me methadone is that much more serious even than "normal opiates"..because its an even more addictive opiate + the seriousness of the "system" [the way they treat addicts, and pretty muh everybody] + the trials of recovery. the last one by itself is my goal now, i think it will be easier recovering without jumping through the bureaucratic hoops for a chemical crutch. (im considering cold turkeying off suboxone) because to me methadone and even suboxone, which although shitty are still opiates, just tease me into craving the real shit even more - like when i tried replacing dilaudid with tramadol 8).

of course, this is said without knowing in any way the best or even any truly efficient way of staying off opiates.

besides plain will power, of course :D heh [little joke there
 
Methadone: Oral v.s. Snorting or Plugging

I've used a ton of methadone however I ALWAYS got it diluted in Vroom juice from the pharmacies so that junkies don't end up shoot their methadone dose.

Just recently I've come into a connection for methadone pills, they are in 10mg and 25mg (Metadol). One person I know snorts them and says they kick in a lot faster plus he only needs about 1/2 of the dose he needs orally for the same buzz. The only thing is the guy is also a notorious speed freak and tweaking all the time so it's hard to trust his advice.

Since I got the pills and can crush them, what is the best way to take the methadone for a buzz? Im not taking the methadone b/c I have to or b/c withdrawls..i'm taking it just for a buzz, also I have a needle phobia so I cannot/will not shoot.

1.
Has anyone snorted methadone and how was that compared to oral?

2.
Has anyone plugged methadone and how was that compared to oral?

ex: higher bioavilability? less dose required? faster onset? pros and cons, etc...[/B]
 
Oral methadone bioavailability is like 90%. The only thing I could see benefiting from snorting or plugging is an increased absorption speed, but you will almost lose some of the drug for questionable gains.
 
SubDude, as always, thanks for the info on long term methadone vs. bupe. There's no substitute for experience!

I hope I manage to stop using maintenance opiates eventually, sooner rather than later actually, but as you say, it is very difficult. As someone else pointed out, the daily dosing and routine of going to the clinic to get your daily "breakfast" essentially takes you to a new level of dosing. It took me from dosing when I wanted to dose to dosing every morning right when I woke up. I only went to MMT for a short period before switching to Suboxone, but this mentality of having to dose to get my day started, etc, is pretty hard-wired into my brain now, and I know that MMT is what got me behaving like this in the first place.

For this reason and the effects on your health from MMT, I highly advise anyone to try their hardest to maintain without methadone before starting a maintenance plan. I started simply because I was going to be sick from a maybe 80 - 100mg oxycodone/ day habit, and couldn't miss work. A few years down the road now, in hindsight, I really wish I just would have known of ways to ease w/d (kratom, etc) and just bit the bullet instead of making myself even more addicted by going to MMT. MMT lengthens the road off of opiates considerably; as SubDude pointed out, many people never come off fully.
 
^ absolutely. so glad im off suboxone/mmt and nearly 100% normal [i think hehe]. even just 3 months on maintenance made me absolutely fixated on needing it to start my day; once i noticed that development, i decided to stop. and go to therapy and such. ill try to quit smoking pot finally......... :p
 
3 questions

Hi guys,

I have a couple of questions relating to methadone and MMT:

1) When people speak of the "blockade effect" in methadone, are they speaking about some sort of antagonistic receptor property similar to what you get with subs? Some such property that only takes effect at higher doses? Or is it just - and this is what I've heard elsewhere - that when you get up to higher methadone doses your tolerance increases. Viz., does methadone "block" or merely increase tolerance like any other opiate?

2) The answer to this will depend mostly on the answer to 1): if you take methadone (low dose), say, 6 hours after taking some other opiate, will it precipitate WD as bupe almost certainly will?

3) I hear alot of talk about MMT being a really bad call but I also hear alot of the opposite. I've been on a high (24mg) subs dose for a couple of years and am basically fed up with it. Feeling like I'm not well held is a small part of my thinking, but mainly I find that subs make me lazy, sleepy and indifferent or depressed. I've gone about 96 hours off subs now and I can either start it up again at a lower dose or switch to MMT. My question, really, is whether horrendous WD is ALWAYS associated with getting off methadone, or whether, if done slowly enough, it can be ok. I got off a high xanax habit with minimal-zero discomfort; so I wonder whether methadone is just fundamentally different and less forgiving.

Thank you,

S.
 
^

1.) It is a full agonist so it does not produce a blockade effect such as antagonists and mixed agonist-antagonists such as buprenorphine. Most MMT patients are on 80-120mg/day which raises their tolerance pretty high making getting high on other opioids difficult.

2.) methadone will NOT precipitate withdrawal.

3.) MORE people feel lazy, sleepy, indifferent or depressed on methadone than on bupe so I don't think its the best call.

Methadone maintenance has its place in people who have tried and exhausted every other means of opioid treatment and continue to struggle with craving and relapsing. Its wildly difficult and painful to get off if you're on a high dose and the treatment really should only be reserved for people who truly can not manage their addiction in other ways.
 
Thanks!

Thanks cane. I'm certainly not in that position people seem so often to find themselves in, where they've just become disappointed with bupe's effects and solely want to get high. The main issue is that I've entered over the past months into that unique type of scheming we all know, which in the past has never failed to lead to oxy's, dope, morphine or some other shit. It's driving me nuts. I'm doing silly shit like buying poppy seeds and trying to score of total strangers, and I don't know how to remedy the situation.

You mention dose in MMT; I don't think I'd allow myself to get up into the big amounts. Probably, I would get through the semester/year of uni and then try to get off, or onto a low dose sub. Is it unrealistic to expect to be able to maintain a low dose in your opinion? I'm tired of being sleepy and unmotivated; I want to exercise and stay active, but there is no way I can get clean in the 3 odd weeks before uni without blowing the semester.

S.
 
I suppose the most pertinent issue is whether methadone could be at any dose consistent with the uni requirements. My degree is laws and hence a bit of a bitch, but whether I'd be better clean, on low subs or on low methadone is what I'm trying to ascertain.
 
^Its so easy to go out and use when you're on lower doses of MMT combined with having to go to the clinic EVERY DAY that people on lower doses are more like to be noncompliant and get removed from programs.

You have to be committed to getting to the clinic at the same time every single day and submit to urine screens and such.

Its certainly possible to maintain on lower doses but if someone CAN maintain on lower doses of methadone, they would probably be better off on buprenorphine or nothing at all.
 
Methadone Clinic - New & Still Using

I've recently started a Methadone Clinic, today was my 3rd day. This is a private treatment CMG clinic in FL.They started me at 20mgs and today I was able to go up 5mgs, this still does not cover all my withdrawals for 24 hours, I understand that Methadone does take some time to "build up" in your system.

The past 2 days I've used at night time when my dose starts to wear off, not that much, last night a 8mg dilly and 15mg roxi, should I inform that nurses at the clinic that i've used when my dose wears off because it does not cover me or will that just make them less willing to increase my dose because I'm not complying with the program? I'm supposed to see the Dr. for the first time tmw, he wasn't there for my induction he just called it in or something on the phone. Should I voice my problems to him or will it just be a physical exam and the dosing nurse is the one with real power... I understand not all clinics are the same, just looking for some guidence.

I know drug testing questions aren't really allowed, but I only want to know if most methadone clinics will kick you out for weed?
 
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I appreciate the insight. But, for example, even when I took those codeine 30's today, shit I think I got about 5x as much done as I have in the past month. So I wonder whether it's a full agonist thing.

Also, where I am (Sydney, Australia) I'm pretty sure you don't need to go every day for done. I get 2-3 weeks of takeaways for bupe and I've never messed up. Also my doctor is a fag which helps, he pretty much does whatever I want. I'm going to go in in an hour or so and have a talk with him about options. S.
 
^if you can control your use and be so functional on opioids as you're claiming, why would you have ever needed bupe?

Of course it feels great and you can be productive on CODEINE right now... that's hardly proving that methadone is the best course for you or that these effects will continue indefinitely.
 
I've have a question for the methadone users out there - past or present.

This is just my curiosity nagging at me, and a little bit of craving full agonists as well. I'm on Suboxone though, so I'm pretty much good where I'm at with the exception of those cravings of course. With that statement I now have two questions.

If you have used both methadone and bupe, which one held back your cravings better?

Secondly,

Is it possible to taper off methadone and experience very mild to moderate withdrawal symptoms like it is with bupe? Most people who are on the anti-methadone bandwagon cite the w/d as being much worse than Suboxone or heroin for that matter. Is it possible to taper off methadone in a fashion that would cause very little discomfort? In theory, if time is allowed for receptors to down regulate (like in Suboxone's case) than one would be able to jump off with little trouble. Of course this is speculation on my part. Maybe someone (C2TL?) could shed some light on this.

Just curious. =D
 
Hey man I also go to a methadone clinic in central florida. You definitely do not want to tell the nurses you are using any opiates to curb your symptoms while you are transferring over to methadone. Instead when the nurse asks you each day how you feel be sure to tell them that you are still experiencing sweats, anxiety, diarrhea, skin crawling, insomnia etc. These are all normal withdrawal symptoms and as long as you are experiencing these they should gradually up your methadone dose. The place I attend starts everybody at 30 mg the first day, then 40 mg the second day on up to 60 mg the fourth day. Then they keep you at 60 mg for five days to allow the methadone to build up in your system. If after five days at 60 mg you still have withdrawal symptoms they will up you 5 mg at a time until you are comfortable, with a max dose of 120 mg I believe. But more isnt better, methadone doesnt effect the mu receptors that other opiates such as oxy and heroin effect, these are responsible for that euphoric feeling. So just try to use what you need to feel human and not sick and stick with that, then when you want to come off the methadone it will be a lot faster. As for your other question the first drug test they give you is a freebie. You can have anything and everything in your system (ours was given the first day, but obviously if they UA you on days 2-4 they know drugs can still be in your system). After that though there are consequences for testing positive for any controlled substances. Those will vary by facility. Usually they will give you 3 or 4 chances though before they discharge you. For example at the clinic I attend you lose take home doses for 14 days the first time you piss dirty, lose them for 30 days the second time. But usually you will only have to UA once per month and its usually right around days 27-30. So you could still have some fun at the beginning and middle of the month, then just be good for the last 2 weeks to pass you UA. Good luck man. You should really give the methadone treatment a shot, you have a much better chance of kicking opiates that way and they ween you off very slowly when you are ready, with the goal being you dont feel any withdraw symptoms. Its the best decision I ever made, and I am really happy and confident that I will finally be able to break the choke hold opiates have had on my life.
 
ThePharmicist said:
I've have a question for the methadone users out there - past or present.

This is just my curiosity nagging at me, and a little bit of craving full agonists as well. I'm on Suboxone though, so I'm pretty much good where I'm at with the exception of those cravings of course. With that statement I now have two questions.

If you have used both methadone and bupe, which one held back your cravings better?

Secondly,

Is it possible to taper off methadone and experience very mild to moderate withdrawal symptoms like it is with bupe? Most people who are on the anti-methadone bandwagon cite the w/d as being much worse than Suboxone or heroin for that matter. Is it possible to taper off methadone in a fashion that would cause very little discomfort? In theory, if time is allowed for receptors to down regulate (like in Suboxone's case) than one would be able to jump off with little trouble. Of course this is speculation on my part. Maybe someone (C2TL?) could shed some light on this.

Just curious. =D
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Although I've only ever been on bupe I can answer your questions because I just saw my doc. to arrange a bupe-methadone switch and asked him those EXACT questions.

1) Methadone handles cravings better (I've heard/read this from dozens, no, hundreds of users) as it's a full agonist i.e., saturates your brain's receptors whereas bupe only sprinkles them with piss.

2) My doc told me today that it's absolutely possible to get off methadone with minimal - zero discomfort, provided you go extremely slowly. Now that I think of it, it's only ever been from people who went cold turkey that I've heard horrible things about methadone WD's.

I'm changing to methadone from bupe in a few days for that first reason precisely, namely, cravings. S.
 
Who's smarter than my doctor?

I've been bupe-less now for 102hrs, last dose was 32mg, and WD's have barely started. That said, I took 210mg of codeine today and got pretty high, although it was a dull, persistent high, not an oh-my-god-oh-my-god holding your breath high.

1) I've decided to give methadone a go. My doc said that in order to do this he would only be comfortable first putting me back onto bupe at 12mg, then going 2 days at 8mg, then making the switch. I feel a bit like this just wastes all the work I've done so far in getting the bupe outta me. What do others think?

2) I told my doc also that I took 90mg codeine today. He said to wait 6 (SIX) hours before taking the 12mg bupe. Now in honesty I took 210mg codeine, but even if I'd taken 90mg, isn't 6hrs a bit hopeful? I mean, not that wiki's a great source, but it cites codeine half-life at 4hrs and heroin at <10minutes, and people always tell me how they waited like 18 hrs then still got precipitated WD after a dope shot. Shouldn't it be longer for codeine?

S.
 
^this is the last time I'm going to tell you man... if you want to do these "check-in" type posts, take it to the progress thread. That's what its there for.

In the future, these will just start disappearing. This thread is for harm reduction discussion about methadone, not your personal diary or questions about when to take buprenorphine (what has been covered HUNDREDS of times).
 
I've only been able to find stuff about dosing after oxy's or dope, never codeine. I don't even know if it's strong enough to be able to lead to precip. WD.

But I'm sorry about the other bit.

S.
 
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