Mental Health Meth To Treat ADHD?

[Whatstheuse]

Not really. I just took a lot of interest in what was wrong with me and read everything I could. I learned a lot here on Bluelight too in the Neuroscience and Pharmacology forum where we have a lot of proper qualified scientists discussing stuff. But also a lot of serious amateurs interested in how drugs work.

I really think you do! I’m so glad I’ve come across bluelight, I’m learning to navigate my way around, takes a bit of getting use to.

So I had my assessment on the 22nd. I decided to keep my self medicating story to myself, past experience with psychs judging me an addict, with no mention of adhd, when I did reach out for help on several occasions left me very sad, full of shame and guilt, let alone the fact I couldn’t function properly without my stim.

He prescribed me vyvance 20mg, and wants me to go back early February to see how I’m going. I took the vyvance for a couple of days, but found myself with a shorter fuse than I have normally, and a little cranky.

Anyway, the psychiatrist was a nice chap, and I did tell him that I had tried many of the adhd medications, working in fashion & advertising they were easily obtainable. Said I’d tried Adderall, vyvance, Ritalin over the years, and found them a little anxty. I then mentioned trying desoxyn 12 years ago whilst living in NY, that it was smooth and I felt normal on it. He’d never heard of it (uncanny being an adhd specialist), I explained I thought I knew why as he tapped on his keyboard surprised to see yes it is an adhd medication, though understandable being methamphetamine. I told him I’d looked into it prior to attending my assessment, and that I was dismayed as to why it was not available when it received an average of 9.5 -10/10 in all reviews compared to the other adhd meds that averaged at best a 7.2. I then produced an email I had sent to the manufacturer of desoxyn asking why Australians didn’t have the option of such a drug, and if it was to be prescribed by a psychiatrist off- label, would they supply it? Btw, they said happy to if I got my prescribing dr to contact them. I then made a joke that he could be a pioneer in helping adhd patients if he were to fight the ATGA for its use……he said “interesting, I will look into it”.

There was no question as to prescribing me stims, which one would I like to try he asked. Whatever he thought best he being the expert was my reply.

I’m so glad I didn’t open my big mouth. I have suffered enough believing, and being told I had a drug problem when ever I shared my secret meth use. Telling the truth has only got me a whole lot of “ewww” judgements, when otherwise I was treated with respect and admiration.

Well, can you guess what happened next? Xx

 

[Jabberwocky]

That’s a really good news story so far. It’s saddening to hear that you got stigmatised as an addict by your previous psychiatrists rather than them viewing self-medication as merely a symptom which is the more enlightened view these days. I guess it depends quite a bit on the experience and character of the individual psychiatrist as well as whether they are in public or private practice. I know the free government psychiatrists who treated me following a brief psychotic break years ago were tough nuts with little obvious compassion compared to the private ones I pay $350 a pop to see now.

My guy specialises in adult ADHD and I did once ask him about Desoxyn in a general discussion about stimulants and he was pretty adamant that he would never pr4scribe it due to a risk of addiction that he did not think dexamfetamine or Ritalin had.

It’s interesting you were prescribed Vyvanse. I don’t know anyone personally who considered it effective long term and I thought there was a Medicare/PBS rule that it could only be prescribed at the subsidised price if the patient’s ADHD diagnosis was received before they turned 18. Therefore it is rarely used for adults.

I’ve previously looked over the Special Access Scheme available for doctors to import unapproved medicines. It looks hypothetically doable but there is a hiccup with meth being a prohibited import under The Office of Drug Control meaning it has a whole bunch of other authorisation requirements unrelated to your medical need.

 

[Whatstheuse]

That’s a really good news story so far. It’s saddening to hear that you got stigmatised as an addict by your previous psychiatrists rather than them viewing self-medication as merely a symptom which is the more enlightened view these days. I guess it depends quite a bit on the experience and character of the individual psychiatrist as well as whether they are in public or private practice. I know the free government psychiatrists who treated me following a brief psychotic break years ago were tough nuts with little obvious compassion compared to the private ones I pay $350 a pop to see now.

My guy specialises in adult ADHD and I did once ask him about Desoxyn in a general discussion about stimulants and he was pretty adamant that he would never pr4scribe it due to a risk of addiction that he did not think dexamfetamine or Ritalin had.

It’s interesting you were prescribed Vyvanse. I don’t know anyone personally who considered it effective long term and I thought there was a Medicare/PBS rule that it could only be prescribed at the subsidised price if the patient’s ADHD diagnosis was received before they turned 18. Therefore it is rarely used for adults.

I’ve previously looked over the Special Access Scheme available for doctors to import unapproved medicines. It looks hypothetically doable but there is a hiccup with meth being a prohibited import under The Office of Drug Control meaning it has a whole bunch of other authorisation requirements unrelated to your medical need.

I really proud I kept my story to myself, fuck knows why I open my big mouth and tell people anyway, it’s really none of their business, I guess it’s got something to do with childhood/parental issues and me just being used to getting in trouble, always the naughty, loud one that shouldn’t be like that. I really love my parents, and they love me too, but they don’t really like me if you know what I mean.

My incredibly successful/mentor/friend, who despised all drugs (until she did psychedelic assisted therapy in the Netherlands and came back to set up a charity and to fight for the use of plant medicines for mental illness) who never knew I self medicated, and who I told, well she still can not believe, nor does she like me even talking about “when I self medicated with illegal meth”, I remind her of what Carl Hart says, and that I respected the drug, and learnt (the hard way of course) how to use it in low doses, just like taking desoxyn………oh if only!!!

Okay enough what ever that was, getting back to the prescribed treatment of my vyvance, interesting what you said about it. I knew it was the latest fandangle stim on the market bc my psychiatrist friend predicted that’s what the adhd specialist psychiatrist would give me, he works at an upmarket rehab and deals with all kinds of addicts. When I told him id been informally diagnosed adhd, of course he was not at all surprised, but he was surprised to hear I’d been self medicating meth, he knew I’d smoked it in the past, but assumed that was done and dusted 10 years ago, he was shocked and said that’s crazy, that ice off the streets was dirty and very bad for you, and that desoxyn is and old out of fashion drug, superseded by the far superior new kid on the block Vyvance ( yeah great, with added this, and a splash of that), not surprising really when you look at how vyvance was marketed, it’s projected profit, it makes a fucking fortune annually, especially compared to little ol’ desoxyn, the hardly marketable pharmaceutical sibling of the dirtiest, most destructive, life sucking evil low life, toothless, smells like cat piss street ice, that instantly turns you into a jabbing junkie if you look at it for too long, or sideways with your eyes half closed.

Please excuse my sarcasm, I get so fucked off. I really miss my meth, I felt normal on it. I know it’ll never be the same as it used to be…..the good old days……but things change, I’m now diagnosed, I’ve told people, and Yey I’ve gone 8 months without it from informal to formal adhd diagnosis, and now I have vyvance. Oh my god what am I doing? I’m going to get some. Bloody hell why not, that vyvance is shit, I feel nervous on it, like I’m not lay back at all, maybe it’s just me at the moment, but I don’t like talking to people on it, I talk to fast and chop & change with every flippin thought that comes into my head, and feel like a fool, and then overcompensate to explain, when I do get a grip and stop fucking talking, my heart beat is doing summersalts! Yeah so tried 20mg, 40mg, choosing to not have it, school hols atm, thank god, but writing this has just made me work out that I’m denying myself……oh I might just wait till after my first psychedelic assisted therapy session, which I’m hoping gives me some guidance, and takes all my need and/or desire or whatever away……. I just want to feel good and be able to thrive, Christ, I felt more together when I was 25 than I do at 53!!!

Bloody hell Perforated, thanks for writing back, and sorry, im not re-reading this before I post, bc otherwise I won’t post reading such a sulky, self absorbed poor me rant!!
Ps. Meeettthhh

 

[CFC]

vyvance is shit, I feel nervous on it, like I’m not lay back at all, maybe it’s just me at the moment, but I don’t like talking to people on it, I talk to fast and chop & change with every flippin thought that comes into my head, and feel like a fool, and then overcompensate to explain, when I do get a grip and stop fucking talking, my heart beat is doing summersalts

Yeah it can be like that for quite a few people. I don't really like vyvanse much either, and it does tend to push me towards anxiety as well, though I think much of that is from the fact sleep quality declines so much due to its over-lengthy duration of action. Something shorter acting might help - you could try discussing it with your doc.

 

[relentlessgenjin]

Plant-based diet linked to lessening of ADHD complaints no side effects vs pumping kids full of methylphenidate and dextroamph

Oh and never too young nor old to see how meditation can rewire your brain

Before you rip on me for saying plant-based I will also say I doubt Indigenous children had ADHD problems spending their lives so closely interwoven with nature hunting sharpened their senses and honed their focus like a razor sharp arrowhead

 

[Whatstheuse]

Yeah it can be like that for quite a few people. I don't really like vyvanse much either, and it does tend to push me towards anxiety as well, though I think much of that is from the fact sleep quality declines so much due to its over-lengthy duration of action. Something shorter acting might help - you could try discussing it with your doc.

Yes for sure, thank you for your insight, I go back end of Jan, someone suggested dexi bc more meth like?

 

[CFC]

Yes for sure, thank you for your insight, I go back end of Jan, someone suggested dexi bc more meth like?

It's actually the same active compound as vyvanse, it just gets to work more quickly and so is out of the system slightly faster. Vyvanse has to be broken down by enzymes attached to blood cells before going to work. However, absorption is more variable and less complete than with vyvanse (it has lower bioavailability).

 

[Whatstheuse]

It's actually the same active compound as vyvanse, it just gets to work more quickly and so is out of the system slightly faster. Vyvanse has to be broken down by enzymes attached to blood cells before going to work. However, absorption is more variable and less complete than with vyvanse (it has lower bioavailability).

Shame it doesn’t make me feel better.

 

[Jabberwocky]

As @CFC says, Vyvance converts into the the same active metabolites as dexamphetamine. So it is different in two ways. It takes longer to act (because it must be metabolised first) and it lasts longer because it is by design an extended-release drug. Lots of people who have trialled one of the two have had had unacceptable side effects and switched to the other and found it really helpful. So people need IR type-drugs and some people respond better to XR type drugs.

We know that ADHD symptoms are caused differently in different people. That is, to put it super-simplistically, the same symptom might be more influenced by serotonin in brain region A in one person but by dopamine in brain region B in another. If you add in the fact that most long term users of psychoactive substances (legal and illegal) have developed neuroplastic changes in brain structure compared to ‘normals’ as well - it’s clear that one-size fits all treatment strategies don’t make sense.

Unfortunately without really detailed brain imaging personalised ADHD treatments are a fair way away. In the meantime, the strategy is to roll a patient through a number of POSSIBLY effective treatments beginning with the one that has statistically best risk/benefit profile, until they find the one that works. Co-morbid conditions and other medications needed by the patient complicate this process for the doctor.

I think it is as common problem that psychiatrists don’t explain this trial and error process clearly to their patients up-front. But then again a lot of patients are in distress and don’t listen to their psychiatrists. For example, and I don’t mean any offence here, people monomaniacally focussed on obtaining one specific treatment (say Desoxyn) are unlikely to clearly hear and understand information their doctor is giving them about alternatives and the over arching long-term treatment strategy. Lots of people posts on FB about the utter necessity of obtaining a certain stim to function in life due to ADHD - but demonstrate very little knowledge of other treatment possibilities, including other stimulants besides the one they have their heart set on.

Personally I trialled at least 5 anti-psychotics and had horrible side effects from a couple of them before I found the ideal one. For ADHD I trialled methylphenidate before dexamfetamine and still wished a non-stim option was possible.

 

[Whatstheuse]

As @CFC says, Vyvance converts into the the same active metabolites as dexamphetamine. So it is different in two ways. It takes longer to act (because it must be metabolised first) and it lasts longer because it is by design an extended-release drug. Lots of people who have trialled one of the two have had had unacceptable side effects and switched to the other and found it really helpful. So people need IR type-drugs and some people respond better to XR type drugs.

We know that ADHD symptoms are caused differently in different people. That is, to put it super-simplistically, the same symptom might be more influenced by serotonin in brain region A in one person but by dopamine in brain region B in another. If you add in the fact that most long term users of psychoactive substances (legal and illegal) have developed neuroplastic changes in brain structure compared to ‘normals’ as well - it’s clear that one-size fits all treatment strategies don’t make sense.

Unfortunately without really detailed brain imaging personalised ADHD treatments are a fair way away. In the meantime, the strategy is to roll a patient through a number of POSSIBLY effective treatments beginning with the one that has statistically best risk/benefit profile, until they find the one that works. Co-morbid conditions and other medications needed by the patient complicate this process for the doctor.

I think it is as common problem that psychiatrists don’t explain this trial and error process clearly to their patients up-front. But then again a lot of patients are in distress and don’t listen to their psychiatrists. For example, and I don’t mean any offence here, people monomaniacally focussed on obtaining one specific treatment (say Desoxyn) are unlikely to clearly hear and understand information their doctor is giving them about alternatives and the over arching long-term treatment strategy. Lots of people posts on FB about the utter necessity of obtaining a certain stim to function in life due to ADHD - but demonstrate very little knowledge of other treatment possibilities, including other stimulants besides the one they have their heart set on.

Personally I trialled at least 5 anti-psychotics and had horrible side effects from a couple of them before I found the ideal one. For ADHD I trialled methylphenidate before dexamfetamine and still wished a non-stim option was possible.

Jesus, I wish I’d written that!

 

[negrogesic]

Ultimately, as far as methamphetamine is concerned in the treatment of ADHD, there really isn't much to suggest that methamphetamine has any significant clinical advantage over dextroamphetamine from a pharmacodynamic perspective. Methamphetamine is more dopaminergic than dextroamphetamine, and since the role of norepinephrine modulation seems to be important in the efficacy of ADHD medications, methamphetamine doesn't seem to have a major advantage. Additionally, methamphetamine's far more pronounced serotonergic properties may only serve to increase side-effects and toxicity since proserotonergic drugs aren't known to be effective in treating ADHD.

Where methamphetamine might have the upper hand is in its pharmacokinetics (when compared to dextroamphetamine). However this advantage can be mimicked by dextroamphetamine extended release formulations.

But overall the relative lack of norepinephrine modulation of methamphetamine confers less therapeutic value, and combined with its high cost and lack of availability, makes it a questionable alternative.

And again, personally I found desoxyn less effective (at up to 40mg a day). Too spacey, not energetic enough. Had a dreamy quality to it.
It does however seem to quiet the mind more than dextroamphetamine, so perhaps it would be good for individuals who's lack of focus comes from a restless mind.

 

[acklac7]

And again, personally I found desoxyn less effective (at up to 40mg a day). Too spacey, not energetic enough. Had a dreamy quality to it.
It does however seem to quiet the mind more than dextroamphetamine, so perhaps it would be good for individuals who's lack of focus comes from a restless mind.

You had to special-order Desoxyn, correct? Like, even with a prescription you had to jump through a bunch of hoops to get it, right?

Makes me wonder if said Desoxyn was actually Desoxyn…

 

[Whatstheuse]

Ultimately, as far as methamphetamine is concerned in the treatment of ADHD, there really isn't much to suggest that methamphetamine has any significant clinical advantage over dextroamphetamine from a pharmacodynamic perspective. Methamphetamine is more dopaminergic than dextroamphetamine, and since the role of norepinephrine modulation seems to be important in the efficacy of ADHD medications, methamphetamine doesn't seem to have a major advantage. Additionally, methamphetamine's far more pronounced serotonergic properties may only serve to increase side-effects and toxicity since proserotonergic drugs aren't known to be effective in treating ADHD.

Where methamphetamine might have the upper hand is in its pharmacokinetics (when compared to dextroamphetamine). However this advantage can be mimicked by dextroamphetamine extended release formulations.

But overall the relative lack of norepinephrine modulation of methamphetamine confers less therapeutic value, and combined with its high cost and lack of availability, makes it a questionable alternative.

And again, personally I found desoxyn less effective (at up to 40mg a day). Too spacey, not energetic enough. Had a dreamy quality to it.
It does however seem to quiet the mind more than dextroamphetamine, so perhaps it would be good for individuals who's lack of focus comes from a restless mind.

Yes thank you. I needed to read those words. I’m starting to think I’m psycosematic, and am actually an addict then as meth makes my life easier and I am happier when I have it.

I can’t honestly tell you if by my really wishing I was able to be prescribed desoxyn, it was to continue my habit using it as a substitute for illegal meth, or if I just have to get used to life without any illegal “self medicating”, as I seem to call it, because I’ll never have the opportunity to even try desoxyn due to the Australian TGA. No fucker is going to go out of their way to help a 53 yo past 10 years secret meth user, no matter how successful her life. So the question is, would I be in this position of a truely blessed “successful” life if I had not been able to self medicate, or I suppose I could say, if I wasnt an addict? See, that’s where I get stumped, bc it’s not like that isn’t the million $ question just like a re-occurring dream, the guilt and shame I felt for taking drugs every day (not every but let’s just say all), the way I had to hide it from everyone, one the way my ex used it against me, finding my stash was his favourite past time so he could ring my family and get me punished, fuck I even went to jail bc of meth, now that’s a really excellent story for another time, you’ll love it!
So back to the conundrum, so I’m a junkie, even though no one knows, my life is amazing, and I’m really happy and thriving but racked with guilt and the other disadvantages I listed above, so despite all that, remembering that I thought I was neurotypical with big flaws, but an excellent Mum to my beautiful neurodiverse 11yo daughter, ex to a narcissist/undiagnosed/chip-on-his-shoulders/1st corn Italian son/feel sorry for/asshole, and a disappointment of a daughter to my parents who love me but I don’t think like me……oh no, I’ve lost it, I can’t remember the question. Ha, there you have it, that’s me folks, can’t be bothered having to impress on this wonderful forum, so I’m signing off, time to do some work. Thanks for being there BL. (I’m a newby) xx

 

[Smith1896]

I really don’t judge anyone their drug habits or how they obtain their drugs but I think one thing that puts the general public against drug users is their taking up the time of doctors with their drug-seeking scammy bullshit.

It’s created a situation where legitimate patients with serious pain problems or serious psychiatric problems are treated with suspicion from the get go and find it very difficult to be believed and get useful meds.

I feel sorry for adults newly diagnosed with things like ADHD or chronic pain.

I’m not saying I’ve never over-exageratted my insomnia or anxiety to get a repeat of diazepam or zoilpidem but at least I have genuine underlying condition on the one hand and diligently follow all the non-pharmaceutical based recommendations for improving symptoms rather than devoting my life to scamming dosage increases for my dex or getting an “upgrade” to desoxyn.

Harm Reduction - Methamphetamine And Autism (ASD)

I am a 25 year old who has Autism co associating with ADHD, OCD, Clinical Anxiety, MDD(Major Depressive Disorder) PTSD, Mixed Bipolar 1, That being said, I am a huge fan of how substances effect the brain from nicotine to Crack. I know research in the topic of substance abuse and autism is...

bluelight.org

Lieeeeee.

 

[Smith1896]

Don’t get me wrong - I have real compassion for people who are by nature or accident are rendered unable to support themselves. I don’t mind my taxes helping them enjoy a decent life and i’ll open my wallet on the spot if I can genuinely help someone make a move upwards.

It’s the fuckers that could contribute to society - or at least earn enough to pay their own way - and refuse to that piss me off.

Although I sometimes laugh in spite of myself just how much real effort some people I know put into scamming the system to avoid working. If they put half that ingenuity and effort into an entry level job somewhere they’d be the CEO inside a year and probably still have more free time.

Or you get on it as a toddler like me, they told me if I didn't go get re-evaluated when I reapplied after hitting the age of consent in Texas I couldn't get my medicare.. If it was a perfect system they would give me the insurance and let me just use the insurance.. I know based off of what you said to me in my thread you see me as your typical scumbag.. Although based off of total accusations. Then called me names and such.. They say a team is only as strong as their weakest point.. Bluelight crew *cough*

 

[Jabberwocky]

.. I know based off of what you said to me in my thread you see me as your typical scumbag..

Mate. I don’t know anything about you other than what you post on BL. If you posted something that says you are having trouble with drugs and mental health then I would be the first person to try and help. But if you post something suggesting self-medicating with meth is a great thing then you better be prepared for a very robust argument. And if you are not prepared for a very robust argument then just sit quietly on the sidelines and don’t follow me around old threads quoting me in order to disparage me. Because if you make it personal then you’ll end up just so much charred wreckage strewn across wherever you’ve ventured in Bluelight that no amount of meth will sort you out and put you back together again.

 

[n3ophy7e]

Or you get on it as a toddler like me, they told me if I didn't go get re-evaluated when I reapplied after hitting the age of consent in Texas I couldn't get my medicare.. If it was a perfect system they would give me the insurance and let me just use the insurance.. I know based off of what you said to me in my thread you see me as your typical scumbag.. Although based off of total accusations. Then called me names and such.. They say a team is only as strong as their weakest point.. Bluelight crew *cough*

Smith I appreciate where you're coming from, but I have read all of your interaction with Perforated, and Perforated has neither insinuated you are a scumbag, nor called you names. I respect that you feel strongly about this topic, but coming forward in such a combative manner isn't going to help get your messages across.

 

[Smith1896]

Smith I appreciate where you're coming from, but I have read all of your interaction with Perforated, and Perforated has neither insinuated you are a scumbag, nor called you names. I respect that you feel strongly about this topic, but coming forward in such a combative manner isn't going to help get your messages across.

You missed where I apologized not once but twice...Why only look for what I did wrong but not the right?

 

[AlphaMethylPhenyl]

Just for clarity, only 5-HT1a partials are really anxiolytic.

Edit: We are not perfect here but we do have a high degree of oversight. Feel free to contact the senior mods/admins if you don't think we're doing our best. Thank you.

 

[Desperatlyseekingsusan]

I really proud I kept my story to myself, fuck knows why I open my big mouth and tell people anyway, it’s really none of their business, I guess it’s got something to do with childhood/parental issues and me just being used to getting in trouble, always the naughty, loud one that shouldn’t be like that. I really love my parents, and they love me too, but they don’t really like me if you know what I mean.

My incredibly successful/mentor/friend, who despised all drugs (until she did psychedelic assisted therapy in the Netherlands and came back to set up a charity and to fight for the use of plant medicines for mental illness) who never knew I self medicated, and who I told, well she still can not believe, nor does she like me even talking about “when I self medicated with illegal meth”, I remind her of what Carl Hart says, and that I respected the drug, and learnt (the hard way of course) how to use it in low doses, just like taking desoxyn………oh if only!!!

Okay enough what ever that was, getting back to the prescribed treatment of my vyvance, interesting what you said about it. I knew it was the latest fandangle stim on the market bc my psychiatrist friend predicted that’s what the adhd specialist psychiatrist would give me, he works at an upmarket rehab and deals with all kinds of addicts. When I told him id been informally diagnosed adhd, of course he was not at all surprised, but he was surprised to hear I’d been self medicating meth, he knew I’d smoked it in the past, but assumed that was done and dusted 10 years ago, he was shocked and said that’s crazy, that ice off the streets was dirty and very bad for you, and that desoxyn is and old out of fashion drug, superseded by the far superior new kid on the block Vyvance ( yeah great, with added this, and a splash of that), not surprising really when you look at how vyvance was marketed, it’s projected profit, it makes a fucking fortune annually, especially compared to little ol’ desoxyn, the hardly marketable pharmaceutical sibling of the dirtiest, most destructive, life sucking evil low life, toothless, smells like cat piss street ice, that instantly turns you into a jabbing junkie if you look at it for too long, or sideways with your eyes half closed.

Please excuse my sarcasm, I get so fucked off. I really miss my meth, I felt normal on it. I know it’ll never be the same as it used to be…..the good old days……but things change, I’m now diagnosed, I’ve told people, and Yey I’ve gone 8 months without it from informal to formal adhd diagnosis, and now I have vyvance. Oh my god what am I doing? I’m going to get some. Bloody hell why not, that vyvance is shit, I feel nervous on it, like I’m not lay back at all, maybe it’s just me at the moment, but I don’t like talking to people on it, I talk to fast and chop & change with every flippin thought that comes into my head, and feel like a fool, and then overcompensate to explain, when I do get a grip and stop fucking talking, my heart beat is doing summersalts! Yeah so tried 20mg, 40mg, choosing to not have it, school hols atm, thank god, but writing this has just made me work out that I’m denying myself……oh I might just wait till after my first psychedelic assisted therapy session, which I’m hoping gives me some guidance, and takes all my need and/or desire or whatever away……. I just want to feel good and be able to thrive, Christ, I felt more together when I was 25 than I do at 53!!!

Bloody hell Perforated, thanks for writing back, and sorry, im not re-reading this before I post, bc otherwise I won’t post reading such a sulky, self absorbed poor me rant!!
Ps. Meeettthhh

Hey, just wanted to say that I’ve also been set medicating for about a year and a half with street meth. Just started taking Vyvanse, but compared to the low dose meth I’ve been doing, Vyvanse is not as good. I only decided to give a prescription a try because of the hassle I have finding a connect for the meth. Anyway, just wanted to say, I totally hear ya on this!