Mescaline Therapy

[Mescaline Man]

When I am in an environment with people repeating the phrase "Calm, Happy, Love", then I am subconsciously filled with those thoughts. This works sober and on psychedelics. Alternatively if I was surrounded with people intentionally repeating the specific word "ANXIETY" then those thoughts fill my subconscious mind.

Shamans often utilize this positive power. They recite comforting mantras during healing ceremonies. A common mantra others have utilized is "Trust, let go, be open". These fill the subconscious with tranquil thoughts of peace.

At the opposite end of the spectrum, historically secret police such as the Stasi secret police relied heavily of psychological warfare. With the Stasi these techniques were utilized in oppressing behaviors and opinions threatening the East German government. Psychological warfare techniques using the influence of repetition, tendency towards conforming with social norms, subservience in the face of authority, and attacking the reputation of opposition leaders form the foundation of such oppressive government activities. Similar atrocities continue today in other major places among us. We only get confirmation of these human rights violations after the fact because secret police poorly self regulate. Just look at how effectively the United States criminal justice system and United States regular police self regulates. The behavior of the Stasi was much worse. Only the bravest/stupidest spoke out against them.

Words are powerful. I prefer the positive honest vibes of the protecting shamans and as a American I say with pride I will not ever live under oppression as bad as the Stasi could produce.

Fascinating stuff man, Thanks!

 

[Mescaline Man]

You are projecting your own concepts of reality and how the world / people works onto his statements, and in doing so misunderstanding or flat out failing to hear what he is saying. Case in point: coming to the conclusion of burn out being a fundamentalist christian because of his stated belief in a higher power, and his having read the bible.

I agree, a lot of negative vibes from Is-mean

 

[Ismene]

here is a grandeur in this view of life, with its several powers, having been originally breathed by the Creator into a few forms or into one;and that, whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed laws of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being evolved.—Charles Darwin, he Origin of Species

Yes, exactly Mr. Darwin. The Supreme Being manifests as infinite multiplicity, the play of endless forms. Evolution.

So do you believe God created the world in 7 days?

We hold these truths

When you use the word "truth" what do you mean? The truth that the bible says? Tell me a truth you believe that disproves the bible.

 

[Ismene]

coming to the conclusion of burn out being a fundamentalist christian because of his stated belief in a higher power, and his having read the bible.

But he is a fundamentalist christian. He's said so himself.

There's no arguing with a fundamentalist, he only believes in whatever supports his deranged biblical view and if that means arguing white is black he will gleefully do so. And resort to name-calling whenever anyone threatens his belief system.

 

[Ismene]

source?

A mutual friend.

 

[burn out]

So do you believe God created the world in 7 days?

I believe the world is being created and recreated each moment.

I'll say almost everything in the Bible has some kind of metaphysical significance. I am not going to give you a Bible study on the seven days of creation but it should suffice to say that in Scripture often times, events which occur repeatedly or cyclically are described as though happening in sequence in order to make sense to the linear mind. You clearly lack the necessary tools for interpreting mythical creation stories (or myth of any kind it seems) so what is the point in speaking about these matters? We're not having a debate anymore as you've gone way off topic and don't seem to a firm grasp of logical fallacies either so maybe I could ask you to educate yourself a bit more before proceeding?

I'll get you started with a few resources you can check out.

Alan Watts - Myth and religion and the image of man: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCD1wAJo6AI

Mythology: http://davidkabraham.com/OldWeb/Beliefs/Education/mythology.htm, http://faculty.gvsu.edu/websterm/ways.htm

Logical fallacies http://www.logicalfallacies.info/
,

When you use the word "truth" what do you mean? The truth that the bible says? Tell me a truth you believe that disproves the bible.

I don't really understand the question.

 

[psy997]

But he is a fundamentalist christian. He's said so himself.

There's no arguing with a fundamentalist, he only believes in whatever supports his deranged biblical view and if that means arguing white is black he will gleefully do so. And resort to name-calling whenever anyone threatens his belief system.

It's obvious he's nowhere near a fundamentalist christian. But again, you seem to be unable to see that at the moment due to operating within an inner, self-created, framework of perceiving.

 

[Ismene]

I am not going to give you a Bible study on the seven days of creation.

You seem reluctant to admit you're a creationist. Any reason why? You obviously believe every word in the bible is the "truth" and anything that goes against the bible is "untrue"

You clearly lack the necessary tools for interpreting mythical creation stories

No, I can interpret them I just don't believe them. They are the deranged religious superstitions of men living in the desert 2000 years ago. Why waste your time on them? You may as well "interpret" L Ron Hubbards stories.


I don't really understand the question.

It's simple enough do you believe anything that disputes the word of the bible?

I am losing the will to live now tho burn so if you refuse to answer in your next post then lets call it a day. If the bible is the only thing keeping you off the smack then good luck to you.

 

[Ismene]

It's obvious he's nowhere near a fundamentalist christian.

Do you have any basis on which to support this claim? He can't think of a word of the bible that he doesn't consider "true". What would you call that?

 

[BlueBull]

When I am in an environment with people repeating phrases such as "Calm, Happy, Love", then I am subconsciously filled with those thoughts. This works sober and on psychedelics. Alternatively if I was surrounded with people intentionally repeating the specific word "ANXIETY" then those thoughts fill my subconscious mind.

Shamans often utilize this positive power. They recite comforting mantras during healing ceremonies. A common mantra others have utilized is "Trust, let go, be open". These fill the subconscious with tranquil thoughts of peace.

At the opposite end of the spectrum, historically secret police such as the Stasi secret police relied heavily of psychological warfare. With the Stasi these techniques were utilized in oppressing behaviors and opinions threatening the East German government. Psychological warfare techniques using the influence of repetition, tendency towards conforming with social norms, subservience in the face of authority, and attacking the reputation of opposition leaders form the foundation of such oppressive government activities. Similar atrocities continue today in other major places among us. We only get confirmation of these human rights violations after the fact because secret police poorly self regulate. Just look at how effectively the United States criminal justice system and United States regular police self regulates. The behavior of the Stasi was much worse. Only the bravest/stupidest spoke out against them.

Words are powerful. I prefer the positive honest vibes of the protecting shamans and as a American I say with pride I will not ever live under oppression as bad as the Stasi could produce.

I shall have to try this on my next mescaline trip. Thank you some very interesting posts in this thread

 

[psy997]

Do you have any basis on which to support this claim? He can't think of a word of the bible that he doesn't consider "true". What would you call that?

It may be indicative of a fundamentalist christian but does not mean he is one. I'm not sure I'd go so far as to say I think every word of the bible is true, but most everything in that book points to the truth if viewed in the right context, both in the book and your mind.

It's easy to react against individuals saying the bible is true when one has reacted, rebelled, and thus condemned organized religion due to the current state of affairs. But the the bible =! organized religion.

 

[Mescaline Man]

Yoooooo I just made an awesome discovery. All mescaline users out there need to check out the music of Kevin Yazzie... quite amazing. As burnout mentioned early in this thread, Native American Church songs AKA peyote music can be very nice during trips. I have been exploring that lately and IMHO Kevin Yazzie has the best stuff out there... very uplifting and spiritual (in a good way Ismene)

 

[Ismene]

It may be indicative of a fundamentalist christian but does not mean he is one.

If he wasn't a fundamentalist wouldn't he simply have said "I'm not a fundamentalist christian"? Why do you feel the need to project onto him your belief that he isn't a fundamentalist christian - even when he's said he is?

But the the bible =! organized religion.

Whatever. The point was if you believe every word in the bible simply because it's in the bible - regardless of truth or any semblance of reality - that suggests something about your thinking. It means anyone who disagrees with the bible isn't going to get very far, which is why it was important to establish he was a fundamentalist before attempting to "debate" anything with him.

 

[burn out]

You seem reluctant to admit you're a creationist. Any reason why? You obviously believe every word in the bible is the "truth" and anything that goes against the bible is "untrue"

I told you I believe in what Ram Daas has said,Timothy Leary, and all the rest I mentioned. I agree with wha tthey have to say. Are you honestly claiming all those men were fundamentalist Christians? Is that your argument? because I am standing with them. They, like me, saw sacred truths in the Bible and other sacred writings. Leary and Alan Watts used to read from the New Testament (of the Bible) when they were on LSD together. It's in the book High Priest.

No, I can interpret them

Alright let's hear your interpretation then. What if anything do you even know about spirituality and mysticism? what spiritual and mystical truths have psychedelics shown you? I'd really like to hear it. I am currently re-reading The Power of Now by Echkart Tolle. He occasionally quotes from the Bible, as do a great many modern spiritual teachers. Why is that that all these people see mystical truth in the Bible and yet you fail to? Could it possibly be because you are the ignorant one? and do you think for once you could maybe answer that instead of replying with "well you're a fundamentalist Christian so I dont have to answer because the fundameentalist Christian card I just played is a trump card".

Do you believe in the power of prayer? TImothy Leary said that psychedelics helped him learn how to pray. He said this in high priest, a book he wrote later in his life after LSD and psilocybin were made illegal. he wasn't trying to get psychedelics accepted on some religious defense, he genuinely found something spiritual about the experience.


"Everyone who isn't tripping himself because he's too scared or tired is going to resent our doing it. Sex, drugs, fun, travel, dancing, loafing. You name it. Anything that's pleasurable is going to bring down the wrath of the power-control people. Because the essence of ecstasy and the essence of religion and the essence of orgasm (and they're all pretty much the same) is that you give up power and swing with it. And the cats who can't do that end up with the power and they use it to punish the innocent and the happy. And they'll try to make us look bad and feel bad." P. 79 High Priest

I just don't believe them. They are the deranged religious superstitions of men living in the desert 2000 years ago. Why waste your time on them? You may as well "interpret" L Ron Hubbards stories.

Why waste my time? for the same reason Timothy Leary wasted his time. For the same reason Echkart Tolle wasted his time. For the same reason all the great mystics of history wasted their time. Do you understand that you are projecting assumptions you hold true in your personal reality onto me as though they were universal truths when they are not or is that beyond you? How do you decide if something is true or valuable? just your opinon about it? If so, fine but you can't expect your opinion to apply to other people. Other people are coming from completely different perspectives than you, including experiences and information you lack. I acknowledge the validity of your point of view, why can you not acklowledge the validity of the points of views of others? What logical reason can you possibly have for that? It is simply arrogance.

And what is with this L Ron Hubbard BS? Thats another logical fallacy. You are basically saying because L Ron Hubbard operated in the sphere of religion and L Ron Hubbard wrote Rubbish (according to you, I have never read his work though I am aware of his shabby rep) that means everything in the sphere of religion must be rubbish. Is that really your response? Like really?

I mean, do you understand the laws of logic, yes or no? (clearly its no, but I want to hear you acknowledge it)

It's simple enough do you believe anything that disputes the word of the bible?

For instance? I still don't understand the question.

 

[burn out]

If he wasn't a fundamentalist wouldn't he simply have said "I'm not a fundamentalist christian"? Why do you feel the need to project onto him your belief that he isn't a fundamentalist christian - even when he's said he is?

I'm not a fundamentalist Christian dude, at least that is not a term I would use to describe myself. Unlike you though, I don't live in a world that is defined by labels. Thats why I say if you want me to label me a fundamentalist whatever, thats on you. But I was not agreeing that I consider myself as such. DO you understand sarcasm? I said I was a fundamentalist Christian by your moronic standards which also makes Timothy Leary (who like me, saw great spiritual truth in the Bible but was very against organized religion) a fundamentalist Christian. I was saying it to the effect of "stupid like a fox" but you probably don't know what that means either.

Whatever. The point was if you believe every word in the bible simply because it's in the bible - regardless of truth or any semblance of reality - that suggests something about your thinking. It means anyone who disagrees with the bible isn't going to get very far, which is why it was important to establish he was a fundamentalist before attempting to "debate" anything with him.

A few things. First of all, you've already proven you fail at logic. You are committing the ad hominen fallacy. Even if I was a fundamentalist Christian, logically speaking that would in no way invalidate my arguments about psychedelics. Thats like saying if a fundamentalist Christian says 2+2 equals four, it must be incorrect because a fundamentalist Christian said it. No, sometimes the biggest fool can speak the truth while all the intellectuals get it wrong. The source of the argument does not determine its truth. That is why I asked you to review the list of logical fallacies, which you clearly haven't done. Anyway, if I was really so unreasonable, why is it that I have destroyed you in this debate instead of the other way around? Was your goal to win the debate or change my mind? Because if it was to win the debate, you should have been able to do that if I was a fundamentalist Christian. True, a fundamentalist may never change their mind no matter what you say but that doesn't prevent you from destroying them in a debate and making them look foolish for all to see. But that's obviously not what happened here, even other posters are agreeing with me.


furthermore, you are the one who is behaving like a fundamentalist refusing to change your thinking no matter what. I am very diplomatic and I have been looking for common ground with you this entire thread. I have been conservative in my statements and not made claims I could not defend. You on the other hand, just post your opinions as though they are objective facts and then when I ask you to support them you just post more opinions. In fact when you have tried to post supporting information it has turned out to be incorrect, like when you insinuated Ram Dass guru palmed the doses and Ringo Starr never returned to spirituality. Why is it that I keep being right and you keep being wrong?

It seems to me that your thinking goes something like this: "uh oh I cant think of a logical response what would support my view, what should I do? Oh I know, Burn out likes the Bible therefore I will bring up the Bible (even though it has nothing in partticular to do with this discussion) then I will put words in his mouth and say and he agrees with everything the Bible says since he refuses to renounce his belief in the Bible and then I will say that makes him a fundamentliat Christian and use that as an ad hominen attack against him! Then I will win the debate without ever having to address any of his claims or support any of mine. What a great plan." That is literally the strategy you just used and guess what you aren't fooling anyone.




and I never said I believe every word of anything is true. A word isn't something which is "true" or "false". The Bible points to spiritual truth, which is beyond words. The words in the Bible aren't true or false, they are sign posts pointing to mystical truths.