• Psychedelic Drugs Welcome Guest
    View threads about
    Posting RulesBluelight Rules
    PD's Best Threads Index
    Social ThreadSupport Bluelight
    Psychedelic Beginner's FAQ

Mescaline Therapy

Mescaline Man

Bluelighter
Joined
Jan 18, 2016
Messages
66
Hello all,

I was just wondering what other people's thoughts/experiences were for using mescaline as a therapeutic tool for relieving stress/anxiety and depression? It seems to clear out my head, almost like a mental massage if you will, and leave me feeling rejuvenated and a new man. The afterglow lasts for several days for me.

I have been taking mescaline (full cactus, not isolated) once every 2-3 weeks for the past few months. I usually will dose a foot of pedro, but sometimes i enjoy micro doses if I have to be around family or be social. It has amazing social benefits.

So has anyone tried using cactus religiously as I have been doing? Thoughts from those who have tried this with other drugs? I have tried it with mushrooms and it DOES NOT work IME.
 
Any drug that causes lift in mood will temporarily help with depression. The only way to truly use it therapeutically is to either have a therapist on site who is trained in psychedelic therapy, or train yourself and study up (easier said than done). Alternatively shamanism may be an option.
 
I use San Pedro. Books like the psychedelic experience by Leary, Alpert and Metzner, Be here Now by Ram Daas and LSD psychotherapy by Stanislov Grof have all helped me get more out of the experience.

THe other thing I do with mescaline, which is unique among the psychedelics in this respect is I listen to native american peyote healing music. I also read the Bible during my trips.

The Peyote music is quite amazing to me. I don't know how it works, but it fills me with some kind of healing energy. It seems to cause painful emotions to rise to the surface so they can be dealt with, but while providing some kind of underlying support so I dont get overwhelmed.

Another thing that it does (and this is the effect I find unique among psychedelics) is that listening to this music on mesc seems to drive my conscious awareness downward, into my heart center. When this happens, I feel a sense of righteousness or nobility and a feeling of love and respect for all life and all people as well as a deep reverence for the beauty of native american and their wisdom. I would love to attend a real peyote ceremony some day. In fact, if you have the means and you really want to heal with mescaline I would recommend getting in contact with the native american church and going to a real peyote ceremony.

It is quite an amazing healing experience and unlike anything I have experienced on other psychedelics. Here is some info you might appreciate: http://nativeamericanchurches.org/the-sacrament-peyote-ceremony/
 
Last edited:
Burnout, I will certainly read up on those books and look into the peyote music and ceremonies. Thanks for the info!!
 
The nausea tends to outweigh the positive effects of mescaline for me. I found it by far the mildest and least psychedelic of the three biggies (mushrooms, acid, mescaline). Choking down vile-tasting cactus snot got old real fast too. Great for music and walking in nature tho - it seems to emphasise the greens and browns in a unique way of it's own. DOM is very similar to mescaline if you ever get sick of choking down cactus snot.

I've never got into the bible during my trips - I think the whole point of psychedelics is that the experience is between you and the drug. No need for man-made bullshit like bibles to come in between you and contaminate everything. The purity of the psychedelic experience is beyond the nonsense of man-made religion.
 
Ismene, perhaps you have never gotten potent enough cactus? I agree drinking that shit is near impossible, but I still find it well worth it. If you really spend the time to get the amount of 'snot' down to about a shot or two, it is well worth the 12 hour trip. Also, cannabis intensifies mescaline like crazy, so if you are ever unsatisfied with your intensity level, a keif bowl or an edible will make a huge difference. Have you ever tried bridgesii? I highly doubt you would be unsatisfied with a strong bridgesii trip. Maybe you have only bought from poor vendors in the past. I have done mushrooms about 50-60 times in the past 2 years and LSD once, yet every mescaline experience I have ever had tops those two drugs IME.
 
Same here, mescaline man. Mescaline is in no way mild or "least psychedelic" whatever that means. To me it is the most intense, because the peak lasts far longer than mushrooms and even longer than LSD. I also seldom experience much nausea, except on extreme doses and even then it passes completely after 3-4 hours.

I've never got into the bible during my trips - I think the whole point of psychedelics is that the experience is between you and the drug. No need for man-made bullshit like bibles to come in between you and contaminate everything. The purity of the psychedelic experience is beyond the nonsense of man-made religion


I simply said what I liked to do when I trip on mescaline. No one asked your opinion on it. But since you went there, allow me to explain.

firstly I completely agree that one of the most valuable aspects of the psychedelic experience is that it gives you a direct experience of the divine vs someone elses opinion of what a religious experience is or should be. There are no personality biases to wade through, no political agendas, no misinterpretations of the language being used, no cultural interpretations, at least not in the plant or drug itself.

I would say the true mystical experience is beyond words, beyond concepts, beyond ordinary cognition and mental processes even. But as soon as you come down from that peak, the mind will start to form interpretations. This is the beginning of religion. The mind creates a system of symbols to help it interpret and integrate what it experienced. There isn't anything wrong with this, it's just what the mind does and what it was designed to do. Each persons mind is limited by its own scope of experience, meaning everyone interprets their experience of mystical truth through their unique perspective. That's why you get so many different religions and spiritual systems. Of course, after these systems get incorporated into cultures and then become secondhand, third hand, forthhand information, there tends to be more and more deviation from the original purity of whatever was realized by the founder of said religion. Of course those who seek power and control, will attempt to use religion and mystical revelation to control the masses, just like they will use anything else at their disposal. Of course, ignorant people will kill in the name of their religion. This often creates bad associations with religion in people like you, who then try to devalue it.

But your idea that the psychedelic experience should be kept free from religion, is no less a religious idea then the idea that sacred texts should be read during the experience in my view. We all have of our own ways we like to trip. There is no need to act like your way is somehow superior to that of others.

The Bible (particularly the book of Revelation) is traditionally read during the peyote ceremonies of the native american church. The Bible is far from the only religious element, the entire ceremony is a religious prayer ceremony based on native beliefs and traditions.

I don't know about you, but I tend to agree with the finding of the research done by Timothy Leary and Richard Alpert in the 60s. They found that adding ritual to the psychedelic experience, is one powerful way of influencing the direction of the experience.

I am assuming you only trip in a vacuum blinded folded with ear plugs in. If not, then you must understand the importance of set and setting and how tripping in different circumstances can alter the experience. The experience is always going to be "contaminated" by whatever you choose to fill it with. Even in tripping in a vacuum, the experience will still be "contaminated" by your set, whatever beliefs and ideas you bring to the experience.

Tripping in the style of the peyote ceremony, provides a supportive set that is very conductive to mystical experiences, or deep experiences of personal growth and community/interconnectedness. Hearing "the wisdom of the sages" (in this case the Bible) during the experience, can certainly bring about certain revelations or insights which not be got otherwise.

That was the whole point of the book the Psychedelic Experience, by Leary Alpert and Metzner. Liberation through hearing. The manual is read before the experience and then the voyager is reminded of the teaching during the experience, in order that they might realize and experience consciousness free from the habituated patterns of the nervous system.

Anyway, my point here is that there are many ways to approach the psychedelic experience and if you want to go in without any specific preparation or methodology, just you and the drug, that's fine. That may be your method. But the original poster asked about other people's thoughts/experiences were for using mescaline as a therapeutic tool for relieving stress/anxiety and depression? I pointed him in the direction of people who have been using mescaline for this purpose for thousands of years. In my experience they are onto something with their music and their ceremonies.

Of course, this is only a suggestion. I am fully aware that for some people, the idea of participating in a religious healing ceremony with native american medicine men might not appeal to them at all. I don't know anything about the background of the original poster or what his beliefs are, so I can only suggest what has worked for me.
 
Last edited:
It's hard to push the dose with cactus for me because of nausea. You're right about the therapeutic use of cactus, however unlike LSD and mushrooms cactus is much less about self and more about others. Theres not as much of that spiraling self analysis you get with LSD or shrooms. Cactus for me is more MDMA like, more about your relationships with others. For a greater spiritual experience I'd recommend growing your own cactus, get to know the plant during its life can help you appreciate the sacrifice of its death. Plus it's impossible to kill a San Pedro Cactus, even for the worst of gardeners.
I disagree about the mushrooms statement however, cactus + shrooms is like an all natural candy flip! Cactus is far more gentle than other psychedelics, but the effects of a full spectrum cactus tea can last much longer. First time I dosed it I was still getting waves of cactus feels 24 hours later.
 
I disagree about the mushrooms statement however, cactus + shrooms is like an all natural candy flip!

I agree. I have only done this once, but man was it crazy. I have tried to stay away from mushrooms as of late due to the overwhelming self-analysis they can induce. However, the mescaline seems to reduce the anxiety from mushrooms so the combination is :D
 
Same here, mescaline man. Mescaline is in no way mild or "least psychedelic" whatever that means.

Yeah it is. It's nowhere near as psychedelic as mushrooms or LSD. Beautiful drug but I couldn't compare it to even a 400 mic LSD trip. Do you find it as psychedelic as mushrooms? Open eye visuals?

No one asked your opinion on it.


It is sort of implicit in posting on a drug message board that you invite opinions from other people tho burn.

But your idea that the psychedelic experience should be kept free from religion, is no less a religious idea then the idea that sacred texts should be read during the experience in my view.

Does it have to be religious? Perhaps you simply enjoy euphoria and laughter and there's no need to contaminate it with ideas about God.


The Bible (particularly the book of Revelation) is traditionally read during the peyote ceremonies of the native american church.


Yeah but that's kinda like ayahuasca religions all being contaminated by catholicism. Every ayahuasca ceremony mentions "Mary mother of joseph". What is that bullshit?

That was the whole point of the book the Psychedelic Experience, by Leary Alpert and Metzner. Liberation through hearing.

I never rated that book - I got the feeling Leary was trying to make psychedelics seem "respectable" by associating them with standard religion. Christianity (or any other man made religion) is the exact opposite of everything I'd want out of a psychedelic trip.

I pointed him in the direction of people who have been using mescaline for this purpose for thousands of years.

Not thousands of years tho burn - the native american church is about 100 years old. Perhaps that's why it's so intertwined with christianity.
 
Yeah it is. It's nowhere near as psychedelic as mushrooms or LSD. Beautiful drug but I couldn't compare it to even a 400 mic LSD trip. Do you find it as psychedelic as mushrooms? Open eye visuals?

Uh yes, I have definitely had open eye visuals from cactus. Some of my post powerful visuals ever have been on a combination of high cactus and hash. When it comes to LSD, mescaline and mushrooms I can't really see how anyone can say any of them are more "psychedelic" than the others. They are all completely psychedelic. They all have equal capacity to break apart your psyche and shatter your ego, they simply each have their own unique character and unique place in consciousness. Maybe someone who has only had weak cactus or never taken a truly high dose, can think it is less psychedelic than mushrooms. It's certainly easier to consume enough mushrooms to trip realy hard, then to consume enough cactus.


Does it have to be religious? Perhaps you simply enjoy euphoria and laughter and there's no need to contaminate it with ideas about God.

Who said there was a need? You are the one saying how things should be when you say there should be no religion. That's what I was getting at. I never said you must trip with religion and if you don't read the Bible while you are tripping, then you're doing it wrong. I never said that. Where is this coming from my brother?

why not simply appreciate others perspectives? I appreciate your perspective. If you want to trip, just for the laughter and joy without any concepts about it, I think thats perfectly valid. I have been there and done that myself and it was wonderful. But reading the Bible while tripping can be wonderful also. What you see as contamination, I see as enhancement or direction. What is wrong with enhancing the beauty of your life with whatever your heart finds beautiful? What is wrong with increasing your wisdom by learning from the wisdom of others? You dont even need to have the goal of increasing your wisdom in mind. Often in the Bible or other sacred books I find things which to me are just beautiful to know, that someone else saw things that way. Someone else shared the same thought or experience I had. Maybe you don't like the Bible, maybe you prefer different poetry or philosophy. But if you said you liked to read Aristotle or Socrates while tripping and then I told you that you were contaminating your trip by doing that, how would you feel about that? Would you agree with that very much?

Yeah but that's kinda like ayahuasca religions all being contaminated by catholicism. Every ayahuasca ceremony mentions "Mary mother of joseph". What is that bullshit?

Once again, what you see as contamination I see as enhancement. Different spiritual traditions encounter each other and borrow from each other and enhance each other and ideally become like a blend of fine wines, this is very natural and has been going on since the dawn of man (cultures blending and borrowing from each other). I think it's very beautiful but a you choose to view it as "bullshit".

I never rated that book - I got the feeling Leary was trying to make psychedelics seem "respectable" by associating them with standard religion. Christianity (or any other man made religion) is the exact opposite of everything I'd want out of a psychedelic trip.

Well maybe read the book. Leary openly stated he was trying to make psychedelics acceptable through the freedom of religion defense but he also believed the mystical experiences they produced and the insights gained were the same or similar to the insights gained by monks, nuns yogis, mystics, religious ecstatics and the like throughout history. Those spiritual traditions were the first to map out different realms of human consciousness and he found their maps useful for speaking about the various archetypical realms and mystical insights which are frequently encountered on psychedelics. The Psychedelic Experience is specifically about using psychedelics to imprint a certain Buddhist realization into the nervous system, thus activating many of its higher potentials.

Now, this is question is just for my personal curiosity sake: You say that the religious ideals are exactly the opposite of what you want out of a psychedelic trip. I am curious, what do you want?

Here is what Leary suggested in the book:

In planning a session, the first question to be decided is "what is the goal?" Classic Hinduism suggest four possibilities:

(1) For increased personal power, intellectual understanding, sharpened insight into self and culture, improvement of life situation, accelerated learning, professional growth.

(2) For duty, help of others, providing care, rehabilitation, rebirth for fellow men.

(3) For fun, sensuous enjoyment, aesthetic pleasure, interpersonal closeness, pure experience.

(4) For transcendence, liberation from ego and space-time limits; attainment of mystical union.


Now you are honestly telling me you do not want any of those things from psychedelics? May I ask why not? They don't sound so bad to me. That's why I like religion.



Not thousands of years tho burn - the native american church is about 100 years old. Perhaps that's why it's so intertwined with christianity.

No, use of peyote dates back thousands of years by native americans. Obviously the native american church as an organized structure recognized by the U.S Government didn't exist a thousand years ago, but that doesn't mean the spiritual traditions that gave birth to it weren't already formed or forming back then. How it intertwines with Christianity is neither here, nor there. We can study native beliefs before Christianity and guess what? They're pretty awesome. And we can also study Native American spiritual beliefs after Christian influence and guess what? They're still pretty awesome. I understand there are "purists" who like religions in their most original form before any foreign influences. that's ok too, if you
 
Last edited:
Yeah it is. It's nowhere near as psychedelic as mushrooms or LSD. Beautiful drug but I couldn't compare it to even a 400 mic LSD trip. Do you find it as psychedelic as mushrooms? Open eye visuals?


Fuck yeah it is as psychedelic as mushrooms. Mushrooms are substantially more of a mind-fuck than Cactus (Can't quite speak for LSD). Though mushrooms seem substantially more intense because of the endless thoughts and confusion, cactus is more euphoric in my opinion, and the visuals are of equal intensity. However, I enjoy that cactus is much smoother and lasts much longer. The OEV's are much different as well. Mushrooms cause patterns to move and colors to be extremely deep and intense colors. Though cactus doesn't intensify colors to the same degree, the visuals from cactus tend to be more about size distortion and seeing plants and trees being 'alive'. During cactus trips I have been next to 20 foot tall buildings that I was convinced I was taller than. Next minute, I would be on a lawn, thinking I was the same size as the blades of grass. So fuck yeah its just as psychedelic as mushrooms, just in a different way and with less risk of a bad trip.

I'm sorry man, but you are making it very obvious you have never had a strong enough cactus trip. It trumps mushrooms 10/10 times in my book.
 
It's certainly easier to consume enough mushrooms to trip realy hard, then to consume enough cactus.

What kind of mescaline dosage are you talking burn? To put things in perspective Aldous Huxley at the age of 64 and having never tripped in his life took 400mg of mescaline and found it pretty mild. So what kind of dose are we talking for someone experienced on heavy doses of mushrooms and acid? It's going to be somewhere around 1.5-2g minimum. If not much more. That's some amount of cactus to choke down. I certainly couldn't choke down anywhere near that much.

Often in the Bible or other sacred books I find things which to me are just beautiful to know

Fair enough burn - I've always found the sacred books pretty poisonous and terrible for the human spirit. It would be hard for me to incorporate sober ideas into a trip - a trip for me is a break from sober ideas so I don't know what kind of belief system would be any use whether socrates etc.

Those spiritual traditions were the first to map out different realms of human consciousness and he found their maps useful for speaking about the various archetypical realms and mystical insights which are frequently encountered on psychedelics.


You don't think it was just a 60s fad? Like all the hippies who took LSD and then got into Hinduism because they'd heard George Harrison had done and it was supposed to be "Like being on LSD permanently dude!!". Certainly all the nonsense about "dying" and coming back again - I think that was the most terrible bullshit idea to spread about psychedelics. Psychedelics to me are about life - no ego-death bollocks has ever happened to me.

The Psychedelic Experience is specifically about using psychedelics to imprint a certain Buddhist realization into the nervous system, thus activating many of its higher potentials.

I suppose that depends how much you respect Buddhism. The Tibetan buddhists for example put their buddhist way of life into practise uninterrupted for a thousand years in Tibet - they created one of the most nightmarish, brutal feudal fiefdoms mankind has ever known. The tibetans were used as slaves and had their eyes gouged out if they dared pinched their buddhist masters goat. I suppose that's the buddhist precept number one - "Covet not possesssions lest it be thy goat and then get medieval on thy slaves ass".

Classic Hinduism suggest four possibilities

The trouble is that's Tim Learys westernised, liberal, touchy-feely version of hinduism. Real hinduism consists of ideas such as the untouchables - poor people condemned as human filth simply for the crime of existing. That's nothing I want in my psychedelic experience.

No, use of peyote dates back thousands of years by native americans.

Not native americans no - one or two mesoamerican tribes in mexico. Native american use of peyote started about 100 years ago when a few people started moving up from Mexico with it.
 
Ismene, I have never done an extraction that isolates mescaline so I couldn't tell you the weight, but I'm talking 18" of Pachanoi or 12" of bridgesii from a top reputable vendor/seller online. There are plenty of weak or imitation cacti out there. Mushrooms I have done up to an 8th.
 
What kind of mescaline dosage are you talking burn? To put things in perspective Aldous Huxley at the age of 64 and having never tripped in his life took 400mg of mescaline and found it pretty mild. So what kind of dose are we talking for someone experienced on heavy doses of mushrooms and acid? It's going to be somewhere around 1.5-2g minimum. If not much more. That's some amount of cactus to choke down. I certainly couldn't choke down anywhere near that much.

I don't know what dose I am talking about because I use cactus not weighed chemical. I have ingested up to 50 inches of cactus in tea form, but my strongest trip was on about 33 inches of a batch of cactus which was about 5x stronger than anything I'd had previously. It was a truly cosmic experience, every bit as strong as 1,000 mcg LSD. The mescaline content varies so much that the number of inches doesnt tell you much. Add to the that the fact that some cactuses are much fatter than others and inches becomes a very innacurate measure to go by. But I am experienced with mushroom doses up to 6 grams and LSD up to a 1000 mgc strip and I find mescaline equally powerful if you take enough.

Fair enough burn - I've always found the sacred books pretty poisonous and terrible for the human spirit. It would be hard for me to incorporate sober ideas into a trip - a trip for me is a break from sober ideas so I don't know what kind of belief system would be any use whether socrates etc.

A trip is a break from sober ideas for me two. Thats the whole point, when you read scripture while tripping it strikes you differently. You are completely missing the point if you think its all about "belief systems". Have you read these guys? Have you read the Bible or Socrates? If you open you'e Bible you will see many of the books consist of some kind of ancient mystical poetry (essentially unintelligible to the non spiritual modern man) , not a list of beliefs you must adopt. Interpreting this form of literature is an art, and psychedelics (for myself and many others) help open the doors to this beautiful way of expressing the mystery of existence.

Let's talk about music. Do you listen to music while tripping or are you concerned about contamination? Music represents a major source of contamination (or enhancement as I like to think of it) during a psychedelic trip. Bands like the Grateful Dead incorporate spiritual themes into their music which can sound extremely profound during a trip.

For me, music, sacred scripture, artwork, etc are all tools I use to enhance the setting for my trip. I think tripping alone in nature is great also, but here it is mid winter in michigan. It is quite cold out, so I try to make as good a setting as I can here at home.

You don't think it was just a 60s fad? Like all the hippies who took LSD and then got into Hinduism because they'd heard George Harrison had done and it was supposed to be "Like being on LSD permanently dude!!".

No, in no way do I think it was just a fad. I mean, yeah it was a fad in the sense that it became part of popular culture and it was the "hip" thing to do at the time but I mean, so what? I don't really get what you are implying here. Here's how I see it. In the 60s lot of people took drugs that caused them to have experiences of expanded states of consciousness, previously unconscious material became conscious, and certain occult/spiritual/mystical phenomena which had been forgotten about by "straight society" entered back into the mass consciousness of the so called "baby boom" generation. Then very naturally, as a result of this new awareness, interest in spirituality (particularly eastern religions), the occult, the mystical, as well as health food, organic, etc and a general rebellion against the establishment and its overly materialistic and status oriented values occurred. On the level of popular culture, you could call it a fad but on a deeper level it was caused by an influx of energy largely supplied by psychedelics. As the 60s ended and enthusiasm began to die down, the pendulum swung back in the other direction and made way for the so called yuppies. That's the thing about pop culture. It has a very short attention span. It can never stay focused on any particular thing very long. But seeds were planted which are still blossoming. Not everyone got into spirituality or meditation just to go along with a social fad. Some people actually had the determination and the patience to stick it out and see where this new path lead them.

You mention Greorge Harrison, but are you familiar with Ram Daas? Might want to read his book "be here now".

I think that was the most terrible bullshit idea to spread about psychedelics. Psychedelics to me are about life - no ego-death bollocks has ever happened to me.

Certainly all the nonsense about "dying" and coming back again - I think that was the most terrible bullshit idea to spread about psychedelics. Psychedelics to me are about life - no ego-death bollocks has ever happened to me.

Here's what I don't understand about you- why do you feel justified in calling things nonsense simply because they fall outside the range of your experience? I have experienced ego death numerous times. The idea of death and rebirth is a perfectly valid way to speak about the psychedelic experience if you ask me. Can you explain why you feel otherwise? I am very curious about this.

Have you tried high doses of salvia divinorum and DMT? It's hard for me to imagine that anyone could truly explore those substances without experiencing at least a partial ego-death. If they don't work, you can get there with amanita muscaria but I can't recommend this one because it is not safe to take really high doses unless you really know what you're doing. And since you don't believe in shaman I am afraid you might hurt yourself.

I suppose that depends how much you respect Buddhism. The Tibetan buddhists for example put their buddhist way of life into practise uninterrupted for a thousand years in Tibet - they created one of the most nightmarish, brutal feudal fiefdoms mankind has ever known. The tibetans were used as slaves and had their eyes gouged out if they dared pinched their buddhist masters goat. I suppose that's the buddhist precept number one - "Covet not possesssions lest it be thy goat and then get medieval on thy slaves ass".

The trouble is that's Tim Learys westernised, liberal, touchy-feely version of hinduism. Real hinduism consists of ideas such as the untouchables - poor people condemned as human filth simply for the crime of existing. That's nothing I want in my psychedelic experience.

Well, I am sorry it appears you picked the wrong planet to live on. On earth the good comes with the bad. If we can learn anything form history, it's that. If you want to throw out everything good that has ever been associated with something bad, I'm afraid you won't have much left.

People like you always focus on the negative side of religion. I'm not invalidating your feelings, but what if you made a different choice today? What if you decided to focus on the positive for a change? What if you decided to see the good in everything? Would it kill you?
 
Last edited:
I don't know what dose I am talking about because I use cactus not weighed chemical. I have ingested up to 50 inches of cactus in tea form, but my strongest trip was on about 33 inches of a batch of cactus which was about 5x stronger than anything I'd had previously. It was a truly cosmic experience, every bit as strong as 1,000 mcg LSD.

That's unusual. I don't often read stories of people saying cactus kicked their ass. I must've tried cactus a couple of dozen times with heavy duty doses and it never got anywhere that intense. If I was advising someone on eating cactus the thought of someone getting their ass kicked wouldn't even cross my mind. I'd be more concerned that they felt enough of a trip to pay off the nausea.

but are you familiar with Ram Daas? Might want to read his book "be here now".

Yeah I've read pretty much everything there is to read on psychedelics. I went through a few stages of believing the 60s stuff, then eventually coming to the conclusion that most of it was garbage. I've read an account that the fabled story in Be here now of the guru taking 900mics was simply a case of the guru palming the acid and pretending he'd taken it.

Can you explain why you feel otherwise?

Don't you think it's a dramatic and dark way to describe a trip? That it's like dying? What fun is there in dying? When I take a psychedelic I've never felt more alive in my life. The world and everything around me is bursting with life. Death is the furthest thing from my mind.

and DMT?


Yeah I've taken lots of oral DMT. It has it's own character - more psychedelic than mushrooms, has the biggest "presence" of any psychedelic but I never went into any ego-death no matter how high I dose. And I've taken enough to stun a charging gorilla.

People like you always focus on the negative side of religion.


Arn't you forcing the religion onto psychedelics when it has no place there? Does religion really have any place on the psychedelic path? Do you think if someone takes a psychedelic without knowing about man-made religions they're missing out on something?
 
That's unusual. I don't often read stories of people saying cactus kicked their ass. I must've tried cactus a couple of dozen times with heavy duty doses and it never got anywhere that intense. If I was advising someone on eating cactus the thought of someone getting their ass kicked wouldn't even cross my mind. I'd be more concerned that they felt enough of a trip to pay off the nausea.

Well we're all different, all I have to go by is my own experience and I seldom experience nausea but lots of heavy tripping. How many inches did you take of what kind of cactus?

Yeah I've read pretty much everything there is to read on psychedelics. I went through a few stages of believing the 60s stuff, then eventually coming to the conclusion that most of it was garbage. I've read an account that the fabled story in Be here now of the guru taking 900mics was simply a case of the guru palming the acid and pretending he'd taken it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NhQZ6dJzIo

Don't you think it's a dramatic and dark way to describe a trip? That it's like dying? What fun is there in dying? When I take a psychedelic I've never felt more alive in my life. The world and everything around me is bursting with life. Death is the furthest thing from my mind.

Haha, you have no idea man. No idea. I didn't realize you were this bad off, I'm sorry.
Yeah I've taken lots of oral DMT. It has it's own character - more psychedelic than mushrooms, has the biggest "presence" of any psychedelic but I never went into any ego-death no matter how high I dose. And I've taken enough to stun a charging gorilla.

I'm sorry. Well thank you for this post, I'm glad we had the conversation. It all makes sense now. You have missed so much. I would love to help you reach ego death and get more out of your trips +deeper understanding but I am afraid you're too arrogant. I'm not even sure I could help you. Best I can do right now is tell you, try to be open to the possibility that you have no idea what you are talking about. That there are people who have gone way deeper with psychedelics than you have ever dreamed of (and by this I dont necessarily mean higher doses or more trips) and have vastly more knowledge and experience than you do.

It's quite ironic to me that you have the nerve to insult shaman and call their beliefs garbage, when you haven't even been able to achieve ego death on your own yet. What makes you sure you know so much? You are like an amateur airplane designer who insults experts and professionals when you haven't even been able to design an aircraft that can get off the ground yet, lol.

If you really want to go deeper, you need to learn humility. That is my opinion. You idea of taking psychedelics without man-made religious ideas or cultural expectations is good in the sense that it is a position of humility- rather than going in with the attitude "I know what this is about and I am going to see God and this is what is true and blah blah blah". But unfortunately it seems as though you lack humility in other areas, and that is why you can't even get ego death on enough DMT to stun a gorilla. Why haven't you tried salvia?

Arn't you forcing the religion onto psychedelics when it has no place there?

I don't see myself as forcing anything but who made you judge of what belongs where?

Does religion really have any place on the psychedelic path?

I feel as though this question stems from a mindset which I do not share with you. I mean, that question implies an assumption of should, that psychedelics should be taken one way and not another, or that psychedelic drug users shoudln't study religion. From my perspective the only way you can arrive at such a should would be if you believed in a creator god who had very specific opinions on how amoral matters in the universe should be conducted.

I believe in a Creator, but I believe we are Co-creators with the creator. That means the Creator doesn't have an opinion on questions like should psychedelics and religion go together. There isn't an objective answer. There isn't objective meaning in the universe, we assign the meaning. Some people obviously think they can go together. I am one such a person, as psychedelics have greatly enhanced my understanding and appreciation for religion and vice versa religion has enhanced my appreciation for psychedelics. But I don't see any meaning in that. I don't think that because that was my experience, it means it "should" be like that.

Do you think if someone takes a psychedelic without knowing about man-made religions they're missing out on something?

No.
 
Well we're all different, all I have to go by is my own experience and I seldom experience nausea but lots of heavy tripping. How many inches did you take of what kind of cactus?

I was using the outer skin of torch harvested in the Andes. I could go up as high as 100g of that which was supposedly about 5-10 times the average dose.

Haha, you have no idea man.


I think we'll have to disagree on that burn. I'm sure I've taken more psychedelics in higher doses than you and your 10 heaviest tripping friends put together.

I would love to help you reach ego death

I don't believe in ego-death burn - I think it's some bullshit Tim Leary made up in the 60s. I'm sure I've gone as deep as anyone can go, I just don't believe in reaching for silly theories like "ego-death" to try and explain things.
 
Top