Mescaline Therapy

[Mescaline Man]

Man this thread has become way sidetracked and has turned into a mescaline-bashing v. mescaline-defense thread. Can anyone else say anything about their experience with mescaline as a therapeutic experience?

 

[burn out]

I was using the outer skin of torch harvested in the Andes. I could go up as high as 100g of that which was supposedly about 5-10 times the average dose.

Haha, you have no idea man.


I think we'll have to disagree on that burn. I'm sure I've taken more psychedelics in higher doses than you and your 10 heaviest tripping friends put together.

The amount you take or number of times is not the issue. Its possible to take huge doses of psychedelics and not learn anything (or even go further into delusion), I've seen it many times. On the other hand, its possible to take a relatively low dose once and have it completely change your life.

I don't believe in ego-death burn - I think it's some bullshit Tim Leary made up in the 60s. I'm sure I've gone as deep as anyone can go, I just don't believe in reaching for silly theories like "ego-death" to try and explain things.

And that's why I'm telling you you're ignorant. Your statements easily betray an attitude of foolish arrogance.

For example:

I'm sure I've gone as deep as anyone can go

First of all, how can you possibly know that? are you claiming to know what others have experienced? You cannot possibly fathom what others have experienced, we are all unique the scope is too broad and the terrain too vast. There is infinite possibility. There isn't a limit to how deep you can go as far as I know and those on the cutting edge, are still going. Tell me, where is the limit? What is the endpoint you have apparently reached?

Besides, from what I understand you haven't even tried high dose salvia or amanita muscaria and yet you think you've seen it all? Amazing.

Something Leary made up, lol. These kind of experiences are pretty much as old as mankind. If its something Leary made up, answer me this: how do you explain people who have experienced ego death before they ever heard of Timothy Leary? I had no idea who Tim Leary was when I had my first ego death experience on salvia extract.

 

[Ethyl_Acetate]

My two cents: I think this is why there are so many varying reports on "one foot" of "cactus". There is no way to determine the amount of mescaline in any length of any strain of cactus without a full A/B to get a mass of mescaline. Find a good vendor/grow your own strain and stick with it to try to get the most consistent results.

I definitely agree with Ismene when it comes to dosing. 400 mg of the HCl salt doesn't give me OEV's and I would classify it as "underwhelming" for the majority of psychedelic drug users. Don't get me wrong - mesc is absolutely beautiful at this dose - but at least for the dozen or so people I've personally tripped with on purified mesc HCl, they have found 350-400mg to be less intense than 250ug of LSD or an eighth of shrooms. I personally find mesc to be the most manageable headspace-wise than other psychs - it really is a gentle teacher.

Cactus in a traditional prep is much different than extracted A/B. Much heavier body load (but after t+3 hours the body load subsides and the high takes over) and muuuuch harder to get down but I've had some insane trips. Bridgesii has given me much more consistent results than Pedro - there is a discrepancy between the size of the cactus cuttings though. 3+ inches minimum in diameter is what I usually prep.

Man this thread has become way sidetracked and has turned into a mescaline-bashing v. mescaline-defense thread. Can anyone else say anything about their experience with mescaline as a therapeutic experience?

I use full cactus extract about once a month. Mescaline is absolutely beautiful. It really centers me, and I find it to be really relaxing. 18 inches of good bridgesii gets me to a +++. I've really been wanting to microdose cactus for a while. Mescaline Man (or anyone) if you end up doing microdosing every day for a few weeks post a report about how it went. If you take a standard cactus brew, put it in a pyrex dish, and put a fan blowing air over it, in a few days there will be this resin remaining. Scrape the resin up into little balls and throw them in the freezer - then every day just take what you need to microdose. At least that's the system I though up (but didn't actually get around to doing).

 

[Ismene]

Man this thread has become way sidetracked and has turned into a mescaline-bashing v. mescaline-defense thread. Can anyone else say anything about their experience with mescaline as a therapeutic experience?

It is looking a little ass-raped mescaline man I must admit. I never got round to using it regularly simply because of the nausea and the trauma of choking down gloops of cactus snot. It had to be a once in a while thing because of that.

I definitely agree with Ismene when it comes to dosing. 400 mg of the HCl salt doesn't give me OEV's and I would classify it as "underwhelming" for the majority of psychedelic drug users. Don't get me wrong - mesc is absolutely beautiful at this dose - but at least for the dozen or so people I've personally tripped with on purified mesc HCl, they have found 350-400mg to be less intense than 250ug of LSD or an eighth of shrooms. I personally find mesc to be the most manageable headspace-wise than other psychs - it really is a gentle teacher.

Certainly the idea of mescaline matching a 1000mic acid trip sounds pretty far-fetched to me. What kind of mescaline dose would you need for that? About 10 grams?

 

[Ismene]

First of all, how can you possibly know that? are you claiming to know what others have experienced? You cannot possibly fathom what others have experienced, .

So how arrogant must you be trying to claim that I havnt tripped hard enough because I don't agree with you?

Besides, from what I understand you haven't even tried high dose salvia or amanita muscaria and yet you think you've seen it all?

I wouldn't try amanita because it's a shit drug. I've used salvia orally and wasn't impressed.

how do you explain people who have experienced ego death before they ever heard of Timothy Leary?

What do you understand by the term "ego-death"? It has so many different meanings to people that they call pretty much any powerful experience while tripping "an ego death". And Leary certainly made up the term in reference to psychedelics. If you're trying to say all religious experiences before were also ego-deaths then we're in cloud cuckoo land. For a start I imagine most sober "ego-deaths" were either by people who were barking mad, delusional or lying to furthur their religion.

 

[Mescaline Man]

I use full cactus extract about once a month. Mescaline is absolutely beautiful. It really centers me, and I find it to be really relaxing. 18 inches of good bridgesii gets me to a +++. I've really been wanting to microdose cactus for a while. Mescaline Man (or anyone) if you end up doing microdosing every day for a few weeks post a report about how it went. If you take a standard cactus brew, put it in a pyrex dish, and put a fan blowing air over it, in a few days there will be this resin remaining. Scrape the resin up into little balls and throw them in the freezer - then every day just take what you need to microdose. At least that's the system I though up (but didn't actually get around to doing).

Awesome! Someone else in the same boat. I feel exactly the same way in terms of mescaline centering me from monthly use. By the way, I have only ever drank the tea, do you notice any differences in the effects from tea v. resin? Clearly isolated mescaline is different from full cactus but how about tea v. resin? Thanks!

 

[burn out]

So how arrogant must you be trying to claim that I havnt tripped hard enough because I don't agree with you?

I'm not claiming that. I don't have an issue with people who don't agree with me, I have an issue with many of the statements you have made though.

I wouldn't try amanita because it's a shit drug. I've used salvia orally and wasn't impressed.

See, this is what I'm talking about. A shit drug? Again, you prove you have no idea what you're talking about. how could you possibly know its a "shit drug" if you haven't tried it? I apologize but I've got to call it like I see it, you are ignorant and arrogantly so. Not a good combination.

What do you understand by the term "ego-death"? It has so many different meanings to people that they call pretty much any powerful experience while tripping "an ego death". And Leary certainly made up the term in reference to psychedelics. If you're trying to say all religious experiences before were also ego-deaths then we're in cloud cuckoo land. For a start I imagine most sober "ego-deaths" were either by people who were barking mad, delusional or lying to furthur their religion.

Ok, so if it has so many different meanings how do you know there is no legitimacy to it? The difficulty here is that mystical experiences are very difficult to talk about and you are not helping matters when you call things "garbage" or "bullshit" based on nothing than other than your own opinion.

I have given you the opportunity to explain yourself throughout this thread but you haven't really posted anything to back up your claims other than "this is what I think and I've tripped a lot therefore I must be right".

Forget the term ego death specifically, my point is that not only Leary but many other psychedelic researchers such as Stanislov Grof (people who have tripped with hundreds if not thousands of patients) have noted that this theme of death and rebirth is a recurring element in peoples experiences (as well as in ancient religious myth right up through Christianity).

You are the first person I have ever heard just brush off this whole element of human experience and all these respected researchers, apparently because you know better. I want to know why I should listen to you, some arrogant sounding guy on the internet who makes lots of very ignorant statements, over folks like Stanislov Grof who has dedicated his life to the study of the human psyche and the effects of psychedelics and been a major influence on my thinking about them. If you really had something to offer with your perspective, I would listen, but you haven't shown me that.

 

[Ismene]

A shit drug? Again, you prove you have no idea what you're talking about. how could you possibly know its a "shit drug" if you haven't tried it

So you've got amantia's back have you burn? Must admit I've never read a single description of it's effects or use that appealed to me for a single second. That's why I thought it was shit. You don't believe that you can have an opinion about any drug that you havn't tried? Ok.

Ok, so if it has so many different meanings how do you know there is no legitimacy to it?

I think it has so many meanings because it's a half-baked idea that you can read anything you want to into. It also sounds dramatic and adds glamour to your trip report. It's why you get no end of 15 year olds who have taken their first gram of mushrooms who write trip reports saying "I died and came back again dude". Dying and coming back again sounds like a serious trip - saying you giggled a bit and listened to some music doesn't quite get you the same kudos.

my point is that not only Leary but many other psychedelic researchers

First, I think we'd have to go through each of your psychedelic "researchers" and what genuine research any of them actually did. Leary's "research" seemed to be fiddling the figures to the psilocybin jail study and tripping with his mates. He was a very clever guy and could think of off the wall things like "lets try and link psychedelics to the tibetan book of the dead". What genuine value did any of it have?

Stanislov Grof have noted that this theme of death and rebirth is a recurring element in peoples experiences

Have you read much Grof? 'LSD psychotherapy' and 'Realms of the human consciousness' are two of the most barking mad, useless books on psychedelics I've ever read. I literally could not recognise a single thing any of his patients ever said. Perhaps he was dealing with disturbed people in clinical conditions and that took them down a blind alley. Perhaps if he tripped with normal people who enjoyed tripping, going out on walks in nature, listening to music and enjoying that precious few hours that there'd be less about death. His book on treating cancer patients with LSD is the only one book of his I thought worthwhile - it's interesting that hardly anyone in that book ever mentions ego-deaths or death. They just talk about the peace of mind and happiness it gave them.

You are the first person I have ever heard just brush off this whole element of human experience

You can't always take things at face value burn. Leary said things for a whole bunch of reasons - sometimes the truth was the furthest thing from his mind when he talked about psychedelics. Grof seemed to me to be using psychedelics as an adjunct to his Freudian psychology theories. And he didn't dedicate his whole life to psychedelics btw, for the last 10-20 years he's disowned drugs and now pushes some bullshit breathing technique claiming that's as good if not better than psychedelics ever were.

 

[TheBlackPirate]

Wow Ismene, I can't comprehend why you chose going off topic lying about and insulting the work of Grof. Since you did I plan on defending him. I recognize several prohibitionist governments have taken swings at Grof. I can't comprehend why you did. Perhaps you disagree with him, but why was lying about him and using curse words necessary? Perhaps this was not lying, perhaps you could have been confused in your comments?

Ismene I should stat with this 100% wrong claim from your earlier comment.

for the last 10-20 years he's disowned drugs and now pushes some bullshit breathing technique

The truth is Grof is actively involved with psychedelic research and the psychedelic community. In fact Grof was on the CBC's international news program Ideas commenting on the value of LSD assisted psychotherapy as recently as October. Now let me include something you haven't included, evidence supporting my ideas. Here's the thread with the links:

http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/778871-History-of-psychedelic-drugs-A-Canadian-perspective

 

[Ismene]

But he doesn't use psychedelics in therapy anymore - his wife is very anti-drugs and he's dropped their use.

The bullshit breathing technique he now pushes is called holotropic breathwork - he claims much the same effect for it as psychedelics "but safer" lol

 

[TheBlackPirate]

Then your saying you were lying in the above quoted comment saying Grof "disowned" psychedelics, why?

 

[TheBlackPirate]

Also why is insulting his work with curse words necessary too?

 

[Ismene]

Which bit do you think was a lie? He's stopped all use of psychedelics in his therapy and pushed breathwork as their equal. If you stop using psychedelics and instead push an allegedly "safer" method in your therapy isn't that disowning their use? Think about it.

Because breathwork is bullshit - and pushing it in any way as a replacement for psychedelics is double bullshit.

 

[Mescaline Man]

Guys guys guys come on. Mescaline therapy... Ismene start a new thread if you have nothing useful to say about mescaline therapy.

 

[burn out]

Mescaline man I apologize for contributing to the derailing of your thread, but I do want to remind you that every time one of us replies your thread gets bumped to the top and more people look at it. If we didn't get into this debate, it could easily have sunk to the second page by now and been forgotten. The longer it remains at the top, the more likely it is someone else will respond with more info about mescaline therapy. None of the less, out of respect for your wishes, I will stop replying if you want me to.

I think it has so many meanings because it's a half-baked idea that you can read anything you want to into. It also sounds dramatic and adds glamour to your trip report. It's why you get no end of 15 year olds who have taken their first gram of mushrooms who write trip reports saying "I died and came back again dude". Dying and coming back again sounds like a serious trip - saying you giggled a bit and listened to some music doesn't quite get you the same kudos.

What if it was a serious trip? What if the experience was more profound than listening to music and giggling a bit? Psychedelics have changed my life. Excuse me for showing them the respect I feel they deserve.

First, I think we'd have to go through each of your psychedelic "researchers" and what genuine research any of them actually did. Leary's "research" seemed to be fiddling the figures to the psilocybin jail study and tripping with his mates. He was a very clever guy and could think of off the wall things like "lets try and link psychedelics to the tibetan book of the dead". What genuine value did any of it have?

I told you already, Leary's ideas, especially the book the psychedelic experience (which he co-wrote) have helped me understand my trips better and get more out of them. That's the value. If you didn't get anything out of them, that's ok. You can share your experience without trying to negate everyone elses. You seem like the like the sort of person who writes a book or movie review as though your opinion is absolute truth and the only one that matters- it makes no difference if many other people got a lot out of it. If you didn't like it, no one else should, right?

Have you read much Grof? 'LSD psychotherapy' and 'Realms of the human consciousness' are two of the most barking mad, useless books on psychedelics I've ever read. I literally could not recognise a single thing any of his patients ever said. Perhaps he was dealing with disturbed people in clinical conditions and that took them down a blind alley. Perhaps if he tripped with normal people who enjoyed tripping, going out on walks in nature, listening to music and enjoying that precious few hours that there'd be less about death. His book on treating cancer patients with LSD is the only one book of his I thought worthwhile - it's interesting that hardly anyone in that book ever mentions ego-deaths or death. They just talk about the peace of mind and happiness it gave them.

I have read LSD psychotherapy and I thought it was a wonderful book, which again helped me understand and get more out of my psychedelic experiences. How do you know you're not the weird one in that you can't seem to get anything out of these books? How do you know you're not the one who is "barking mad"?

You can't always take things at face value burn. Leary said things for a whole bunch of reasons - sometimes the truth was the furthest thing from his mind when he talked about psychedelics. Grof seemed to me to be using psychedelics as an adjunct to his Freudian psychology theories. And he didn't dedicate his whole life to psychedelics btw, for the last 10-20 years he's disowned drugs and now pushes some bullshit breathing technique claiming that's as good if not better than psychedelics ever were.

I never said Leary was perfect or that I agree with everything he said/did. That's why I told you earlier, in this world you have to take the bad with the good. Rarely do you find someone who was completely perfect and did everything right. As for Grof, ok, a significant part of his life was dedicated to psychedelics.

 

[Mescaline Man]

Mescaline man I apologize for contributing to the derailing of your thread, but I do want to remind you that every time one of us replies your thread gets bumped to the top and more people look at it. If we didn't get into this debate, it could easily have sunk to the second page by now and been forgotten. The longer it remains at the top, the more likely it is someone else will respond with more info about mescaline therapy.

Fair enough brother

 

[Mescaline Man]

By the way burn out, what books would you recommend to me about gaining a new perspective on anxiety and helping to cope with it from psychedelics? Note that I have no interest in mushrooms anymore

On a side note, I accidentally spilled some everclear-infused LSD on my hand last night which had lots of fresh cuts. Surprisingly it was a wonderful microdose

 

[Incunabula]

Is it a bird? Is it a plane? No, it's Mescalinemaaaaan. Nah nah nah nah nah

Sorry, I just had to 8) lol

 

[Mescaline Man]

is it a bird? Is it a plane? No, it's mescalinemaaaaan. Nah nah nah nah nah

sorry, i just had to 8) lol

hahahaha%)

 

[Shamandrums]

Hello all,

I was just wondering what other people's thoughts/experiences were for using mescaline as a therapeutic tool for relieving stress/anxiety and depression? It seems to clear out my head, almost like a mental massage if you will, and leave me feeling rejuvenated and a new man. The afterglow lasts for several days for me.

I have been taking mescaline (full cactus, not isolated) once every 2-3 weeks for the past few months. I usually will dose a foot of pedro, but sometimes i enjoy micro doses if I have to be around family or be social. It has amazing social benefits.

So has anyone tried using cactus religiously as I have been doing? Thoughts from those who have tried this with other drugs? I have tried it with mushrooms and it DOES NOT work IME.

Hi, I am starting down a similar road including peyote, & lucky to have experienced Dr's assisting my research/therapy, 1^st Nation’s practitioner & a well-informed buddy on plant entheogens. Like MDMA, the evidence of its therapeutic uses includes depression, anxiety & it also is used for alcoholism/addiction therapies. It’s tends to mimic serotonin so it makes sense it can help with depression, anxiety, PTSD or issues where serotonin is lacking. So I say go for it on this account!Some Peyote sources contain a rougher mixture via genus & the proportion of what other actives are contained that will have effect on the result, of course, but exactly how for depression therapy, this is important to best figure.

That is: if all else be safe - sourcing, dose, heart health {re: amphetamine content & the experience’s potential to ramp up blood pressure & heart rate}, etc. I’d keep searching forums for tid bits (as I did tonight, so… happy to see your post, friend!), erowid etc & the books to simply know what is known. Lots of good research is being done these days.

All said: Mescaline (3,4,5-trimethoxyphenethylamine), has a way riskier LD-50 profile by far than psilocybin, far worse than LSD, DMT (& most pop alkaloid psyches) & this really varies per genus & preparations but when done right, is usually other-wise is safe for therapy. Correct dosage can be confusing, so know what to ingest. Mesc, modulates neurotransmitters (activates the same receptor as serotonin-causing the regulation of pleasure. perception) in a way I’d prefer to Paxil! But I’m not a Dr. (dahh!) nor big pharma.%)