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MDMA Recovery (Stories & Support - 5)

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What are you supposed to do in social situations? Its not like mindful breathing will return you to the extrovert you are right?

The flaw I find with mindfulness is that it doesn't necessarily help in these 'critical' in the moment issues:

1) socializing at the level you used to

2) Beating the curve on an exam/acing it like you used to

3) being productive at the level you used to whether that be schoolwork or job work

I can of course observe my thoughts regarding those things but im not able to do anything about those effects of the LTC in that very moment or even the next moment to make it better.

The present moment I see it as this instantanous moment in time but we are also constantly moving into the future. Screw the past--I hardly have any past related thoughts.

My future worries are sort of based on my present moment in itself.

Idk if I take psychologists' advice too literally but one of them was like "stay in the present" when i worried if this problem would be there tomorrow/a week later/etc.

so I stayed in the 'present' and basically tried to not think about that but the problem still ended up existing a day or 2 later which was the future back when the advice was given but became the "new present".

It almost seems like if you get into the philosophical aspects or take mindfulness or CBT *too literally* it backfires.

And then theres the 'fatalistic' risk too cause if you take the philisophy of mindfulness too literally like I do sometimes then i start feeling hopeless like

"whats the point if I will feel this way and cannot do anything about it and have to accept it". And then if I start thinking well if I have to accept this then theres no point etc etc etc.

I notice the floor, observe the trees, feel the sun ray heat on my skin but my social skills still and academic skills don't rebound to previous levels.

For people like me is it best to just throw out all the philosophical crap and just do the breathing techniques alone? Or maybe I would do better with neurofeedback which is something I know some have looked into since I would be able to see the eeg brain waves etc and actually "see" change happening?

I also don't like that whole medication opposed mindfulness crowd around the internet. They say medication suppresses symptoms etc etc but doesnt get to the 'root' at the mind and lifelong thought patterns. That is COMPLETE BS as mental illness has biological factors beyond just fuckin thought patterns.
 
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Has anyone had any issues with inhibition? I find myself speaking without thinking a lot. I mean its not like I am being inappropriate, I still know what appropriate and whats not, its just I seem to come out with things that I never used to. Maybe I am overthinking it as I am hyper aware of everything.
 
I personally find mindfulness helps me a lot in social situations. Conversation flows smoother if the people are actually listening to each other and being in the present moment instead of being aloof, sometimes I think the brain can generate better responses if you are mindfully listening. The responding part is different but sometimes I can almost just let my responses happen without "saying them aloud" in my head first.

What social problems are you having anyways?

Mindfulness helps me a lot when I need to focus and learn something or get something done as well.

The thing is that mindfulness is second nature for me at this point. Its not like I remember to do it all the time, I still find myself all the time saying "whoops I forgot my mindfulness" and then after that I'll maintain it for a while and rinse and repeat, but for some when they first start to learn mindfulness and apply it, it may take more energy and concentration (to the point where it doesn't always help with e.g. learning/reading right off the bat).

Its harder to remember to apply mindfulness without really thinking about it in certain situations. When you're all alone its one thing, when you're trying to do something or when you're in a chaotic social group it can be much harder at first to remember your mindfulness in a good way that doesn't take much effort, or apparently piss you off


"I also don't like that whole medication opposed mindfulness crowd around the internet. They say medication suppresses symptoms etc etc but doesnt get to the 'root' at the mind and lifelong thought patterns. That is COMPLETE BS as mental illness has biological factors beyond just fuckin thought patterns."

I mean, its not like mindfulness practice can't address biological issues. In some sense, mindfulness has the ability to do things that medications never will, and medications have the ability to do things that mindfulness never will. I'm sure there is a middle ground where both schools of thought can come together.

The issue is that mindfulness practice is not like taking a pill that is guaranteed to have an effect, there is no "wrong way" to take a pill. As someone else said, you can have someone meditate for years and they're never guaranteed to have a breakthrough experience like self transcendence or any other significant experience, but give somebody a quarter ounce of mushrooms and have them lay down on the couch for an hour and they are guaranteed to have an experience.

Regardless of whether their self is fighting them or not the mushrooms can often overpower it and cause ego-dissolution and all its benefits, both short term and long term. I should point out that when people say that they have "ego death" on here I think that is a different variety of ego death (if it is indeed what they claim, a lot of people have a hard time understanding ego-dissolution)

I'll also point out that egocentric people are noted to have a much harder time with empathy and social interactions.
 
Regrets9995 said:
Has anyone had any issues with inhibition? I find myself speaking without thinking a lot. I mean its not like I am being inappropriate, I still know what appropriate and whats not, its just I seem to come out with things that I never used to. Maybe I am overthinking it as I am hyper aware of everything.
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Sleep deprivation used to cause my "filter" to disappear a lot, now I can sometimes speak without having to say things aloud in my head first but its much more natural and it doesn't feel like random gibberish that just finds its way out of my mouth
 
Cotcha, would you say you are happy with where you are and who you are now? I have accepted that the old me is gone and I have accepted that whilst this path is very very difficult, I have learnt massive amounts about myself and life that I may never have otherwise. I just want to get to a place where I dont feel like I am surviving any more. I stupidly have watched brain injury documentaries and such and it just fills me with dread that people are basically in the same condition decades into their recovery and its hard to think that recovery from this current state may not occur. With the cognitive issues i have at the minute, I can just about hold down a job in a supermarket but if that is all I will ever be able to do then god knows what the rest of this life will be like. Mindfulness, therapy and medication are helping but I just feel so lost and detached. I have had some much better days but I cant tell if my symptoms are improving, just feels like I am in a deep hole which just keeps getting deeper. Apologies about being negative again but it has been a rough day.
 
I feel as if this experience will either make me into a great version of myself and allow me to do things with my life I never thought I would, or it will be the end of me. Such a horrible predicament to be in especially as 7 months ago I was functioning fine and thought I had my whole life ahead and I am only 21!
 
Regret I know what you mean man but you can either see this as a curse or a blessing and trust me I have my bouts with both. Since this has happened to me I take it as a blessing way more over than a curse, I'm 25 5'7 and a medium build and this has whole experience has been an eye opener to me. You have got to stay positive brother, I know what you feel I'm on anxious person and my anxiety seemed elevated because of this whole ordeal since I never felt what I do now. I feel these effects of what's going on has opened my eyes to stay away from drugs period and I hate saying that as we speak but it was for the best which I knew before hand o had to eventually stop. It seems like it's over and trust me bud I'm one paranoid person but it does end in a good way you just have to see it no matter how bad it gets and how you might feel at times you feel defeated. You, me and many others are going threw this now but many others have gone threw this phase we are dealing with now and they have overcame tremendously. It takes time and care my friend, don't get down pray it your religious, read, walk, do anything to connect with your inner self and always give yourself credit for getting up fighting it everyday. I had to learn threw this experience first hand and it seems like a struggle but it's one we must undergo of be defeated. Again this is only temporary my friend and things do get better.
 
Social problems are just not being as outgoing and confident socially as I user to be. Never had any social anxiety in my life prior to this. I wouldnt even call this right now social anxiety but its more that low mood is causing social awkwardness at times but when the mood is treated (eg with benzos or when 50/50 HC works) the social issues also go away.
 
Regrets9995 said:
Cotcha, would you say you are happy with where you are and who you are now? I have accepted that the old me is gone and I have accepted that whilst this path is very very difficult, I have learnt massive amounts about myself and life that I may never have otherwise. I just want to get to a place where I dont feel like I am surviving any more. I stupidly have watched brain injury documentaries and such and it just fills me with dread that people are basically in the same condition decades into their recovery and its hard to think that recovery from this current state may not occur. With the cognitive issues i have at the minute, I can just about hold down a job in a supermarket but if that is all I will ever be able to do then god knows what the rest of this life will be like. Mindfulness, therapy and medication are helping but I just feel so lost and detached. I have had some much better days but I cant tell if my symptoms are improving, just feels like I am in a deep hole which just keeps getting deeper. Apologies about being negative again but it has been a rough day.
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I'm definitely happy with who I am and where I am, physical health aside. In retrospect it is a blessing, although that may sound cliche. But when you lose a lot, you finally appreciate what you have when you get it back. There is a weird learning curve to losing -> appreciating.

I wish we could all go through the learning curve without losing something first, but I guess its kinda necessary for real growth to go through it. Keep hanging in there, it just takes time. This definitely isn't like car crash traumatic brain injury type shit.
 
socrilus said:
Social problems are just not being as outgoing and confident socially as I user to be. Never had any social anxiety in my life prior to this. I wouldnt even call this right now social anxiety but its more that low mood is causing social awkwardness at times but when the mood is treated (eg with benzos or when 50/50 HC works) the social issues also go away.
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I don't mean to be coarse but it doesn't exactly sound like the end of the world, a whole lot of people are introverted and a lot of young people are at least a bit awkward. And if you're not acing exams "like you used to", then keep in mind that a lot of people never ace exams in the first place yet they can still be content with what they got going for them.
 
Cotcha Yankinov said:
I don't mean to be coarse but it doesn't exactly sound like the end of the world, a whole lot of people are introverted and a lot of young people are at least a bit awkward. And if you're not acing exams "like you used to", then keep in mind that a lot of people never ace exams in the first place yet they can still be content with what they got going for them.
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Understood. Its not those things directly as much as it is the sense of "normal".

Again (although VS doesn't bother me much its always the first example I think of), some people are born with VS but it doesnt bother them. Their normal is having the visual snow. For one of my friends who has had regular mood swings, that is their "normal" and so it doesnt bother them.

For someone who is introverted, it may not necessarily bother them since its their "normal". Same with exams. I didnt ace all my exams either and it didnt bother me when I didn't. I just did better than i do now. Hence that is my "normal".

Normal is a relative thing

Some people have stories of having OCD even before in their childhood. They do NOT ruminate about their old selves and normality. That *is* their normal and they are ok with that and still do have the OCD or whatever "managed". Some of them had some crazy traumas in childhood etc and they are "managing" but are ok with it. They have no sense of "old self" in the first place

And they are content with it being "managed".

On the other hand, I am going for a BDI/HAM D/anxiety/ etc score of 0-3 since that is my sense of normal and my family's sense of normal given no history of mental illness.

Hence the need for splitting various types of depressions/anxiet problems and comparing the efficacy of treatments in all subtypes.

Also i agree with mindfulness being a good treatment. Problem is what to do if you are so impatient and then it defeats the purpose. Thats why I wondered if neurofeedback could be better. I like to see progress and momentum.
 
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socrilus said:
Understood. I
some people are born with VS but it doesnt bother them. Their normal is having the visual snow. For one of my friends who has had regular mood swings, that is their "normal" and so it doesnt bother them.

For someone who is introverted, it may not necessarily bother them since its their "normal".
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I think the fitting Jack Sparrow quote is "The problem is not the problem, the problem is your attitude about the problem"

If people can have e.g. mood swings that don't "bother them", then why is it that you can't have e.g. mood swings that don't "bother you"? I hope you can see what I'm getting at here - if some people have the same symptoms/problems but fair better, why is that so? I think there is some role for the conceptual framework/mindset/lens to play here

The goal shouldn't necessarily be about us returning to whatever our sense of normal is, our goal should simply be to be content and satisfied with our lives, and we don't necessarily need to score 0 on a depression inventory for us to be content with our lives
 
socrilus said:
And they are content with it being "managed".

On the other hand, I am going for a BDI/HAM D/anxiety/ etc score of 0-3 since that is my sense of normal and my family's sense of normal given no history of mental illness.


Also i agree with mindfulness being a good treatment. Problem is what to do if you are so impatient and then it defeats the purpose. Thats why I wondered if neurofeedback could be better. I like to see progress and momentum.
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Sounds like impatience is a part of your personality that could do with some changing. I know I've grown infinitely more patient and I've seen benefit from that in all aspects of life, although I certainly still need to work on it more. Same with contentment, there is a lot to be said for being grateful and content. If we properly empathize with the people who really have nothing left to lose, then we may not necessarily have to lose any more. But I think it takes some "losing" to learn to empathize with the people who are worse off, be it mental health, physical health or overall life situation.
 
I would say after I recovered from the initial comedown I was pretty grateful that nothing bad happened and had more empathy. However, even if I was some CBT God, I would have gotten the LTC a few weeks later. I do not believe that could have had a preventative effect on the HPA dysregulation.

http://psychotropical.info/a-cruel-trick-diurnal-variation

Seems like that is a "reliable marker of biological depression". I have exactly that. Looks like as things improve also night time improves first before mornings.

Also seems like in these kinds of cases of biological depression, CBT and mindfulness won't necessarily cure it but are there to change the view about the illness itself? Its not as easy or simple as changing the thought about a girl rejecting you and thinking you are worthless. Thats some outright cogntivie distortion type thinking CBT is good at addresing but idk anybody here having that kind of blatant easy to id distortion.
 
So I am going to be starting Lamictal at 2.5 mg and then bumping up to 5 mg. Doc said I should feel something in 1-2 weeks even at low dose cause he has patients feeling it at pediatric doses.

And then in 1-2 weeks im going to consider adding steroids Testosterone to augment the Lamictal depending on how things are then.
 
I just got out of neck surgery, had scalene muscles removed for headaches and other stuff. The muscles can affect the back of the head where cranial nerves live and can cause jaw pain and headaches all over. So I'm curious how I do with this.

I previously had scalene lidocaine/Botox injections that helped a lot with headaches/headpain, so for those of you with head problems, keep in mind that there is more treatments out there than just healthy lifestyle/oral meds. Lidocaine injection of the cranial nerves at the back of the head can help too.

Hope you guys are doing okay.

@socrilus - Mindfulness has profound effects on the brain that should be able to strongly affect biology - since all of the brain is connected there shouldn't be an area or circuit of the brain that is "unreachable" by mindfulness, if that makes sense

Best of luck with the lamotrigine
 
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socrilus said:
So I am going to be starting Lamictal at 2.5 mg and then bumping up to 5 mg. Doc said I should feel something in 1-2 weeks even at low dose cause he has patients feeling it at pediatric doses.

And then in 1-2 weeks im going to consider adding steroids Testosterone to augment the Lamictal depending on how things are then.
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Glad to hear man, hopefully it works out!
 
Thanks, I gotta wait a bit cause I called a few pharmacies and they don't even have a dose this low and they have to order it. Just fyi for anybody thinking about low dose lamictal.
 
^Yup the anterior and medial scalene just on the right side thus far, the surgeon tells me there was a lot of scar tissue on them so it sounds like it was the right move. Staying overnight in the hospital now
 
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