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MDMA comedown update

Hello India,

It is rare that I sign onto BL anymore.
Something compelled me tonight.
Maybe it was you.

I know that my posts can provide a lot to be concerned/obsessed over.
The possibility of your current condition remaining with you for years is terrifying.

I remember the early stages.
You are in the midst of a complete dysfunction of your HPA, or hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis.
It is a critical part of brain function that is highly influenced by the connection between the gut and the higher parts of the brain.
Your serotonin nerves extend from your brainstem into the frontal lobes through the hypothalamus.

By damaging your serotonin system in the cortex, you have lost the necessary inhibitory effects in those areas.
One of the primary inhibitory effects is seen with nearby dopamine neurons, which are now firing rapidly and uncontrollably at times.
The loss of inhibition is the driving force behind your obsessive thoughts and emotions.

Many on BL will say 'its all in your head', as if to assert that conscious control is possible.
I assert that most of them haven't a goddamn clue about just how unhinged a person can become.
There are levels of neuronal excitation that lead to the death and reprogramming of brain cells, and who is to say that your brain isn't doing exactly what it needs to?

There is evidence among other mental illnesses that treating the condition with medication can help symptoms, but often does not lead to a cure.
In fact treatment can lead to a dependence that is life-long.

This is seen in depression, schizophrenia, bipolar...

Your poor pituitary gland is telling you 24/7 that you are totally fucked up.
And that it might be permanent.

I can so clearly recall the fear of forever.
Over time I would realize that I was cycling.
As each phase would build to the next crisis and complete emotional breakdown, I would reach the conclusion (each time) that this might be permanent.

In fact, it seemed necessary that I reach this stage of belief before the actual breakdown would occur.
Until I really believed in my mind that I would never truly recover, I was unable to freak out and cry/scream/release.
And I have no doubt that these events involved the death/reprogramming of neurons.

It took many months of this horrible cycling to realize what the underlying process was.
Without the fear of permanence, the neurological changes could not be achieved.
No other obsessive thought would get me to that point.

Permanence is unique among thoughts.

Allow me to offer you a great reassurance.
You are not as brain damaged as i. I can tell this from your posts.
But even if you were....

When I continued to write up to and past the 2 year mark of my recovery...the feeling of dread was LONG GONE.
That isn't to say I had no fears left. Indeed I have battled physical symptoms that made me feel like I could die!
But this is a healthy fear.

Long gone was the gnawing emptiness, the vacuum where my soul once resided.
The abyss I had fallen into was not bottomless.

Just like waiting in line for a rollercoaster, the impending fear is the worst.
Once you go over the first and second hill you know you are going to be ok.
Does this make sense?

If you are truly damaged, there will be other things to worry about later.
But it will not feel like this. It will not be the same.

You will suffer as a true human being with a functional pituitary gland.
You will embrace your emotions like long lost friends.

For me the first 3 months were unreal in terms of emotional emptiness.
The first 6-8 months were extremely difficult.
Something changed between month 9-12.

The depression and feeling of dread that ruined my every waking moment was lifting.
By month 15 I started to realize that cognitive loss was just beginning to set in.
This was very sad for me, but not nearly as painful as what I had already endured.
By month 20 my cognitive decline seemed to level out and stop.

It was in the 2nd year that I really fought the cognitive problems, sometimes with an unhealthy OCD pursuit.
It culminated in what I think was a TIA, or temporary stroke.

I lost tons of weight and had to stop going to the gym.
I still don't know if that was meant to be or if it was self-inflicted.
I am still recovering from that, which I now view as the last in a long line of cycles.

At 3.5 years recovery I can honestly say that the emotional suffering in the beginning was by FAR the worst part.
If you aren't past the first few months, you have NO idea what to expect yet.

But it sounds to me like you got about 10% of the damage I did.
So take a DEEP BREATH.

I say many BLers that came to me for counseling.
There is a trend towards recovery within 3-4 months.
Those that aren't so lucky, almost always recover meaningfully within a year.

Then there is the group I'm in.
Multiple years of re-wiring, with significant markers of recovery occurring around 12 and 24 months.
The best new of all - the brain never stops re-wiring itself.
It is built for it, so no matter how bad off you are, you are lucky to have an organ talented in reorganizing itself.

The odds are heavily in your favor, from my experienced point of view.
Never stop exercising, and try to think of recovery in terms of months. Not days.

Good luck and PM me with questions.
 
Hello India,

The odds are heavily in your favor, from my experienced point of view.
Never stop exercising, and try to think of recovery in terms of months. Not days.

Good luck and PM me with questions.
That's strange. How much did you take of MDMA? I managed to get this comedown/disorder off one small bomb and firmly believe I did not do any sort of damage to my brain, even though it had felt like it in the beginning weeks. All I can contribute this to is anxiety, and the more I work on that with myself the more I'm becoming normal again. I'm managing to achieve milestones I set myself. I really appreciate you posting again as during the first month all I read was your posts, but I really don't think I could cause brain damage off such little, very tiny use.
 
I consumed a total of approximately 30 tabs over a 2 year period.
I typically redosed at least once per night, sometimes taking 2.5 tabs.

Three times I rolled two days in a row.
The third time lead to my 'brain damage'.

I had rolled the previous weekend. Then on halloween 2010 I rolled, and then took a half the next day.
Three days later everything changed for me, starting with severe chest pain, abdominal pain that felt like I was going to explode, horrible headache, tinnitus, even low grade fever. The classic symptoms of serotonin syndrome or acute intoxication.

Again, this occurred three days after my last dose, and I discovered this was not uncommon among users.
I also had taken 4 benedryl the night before trying to get to sleep.
An interaction between the two cannot be ruled out, but I had never felt so drugged from benedryl before.
Something had already changed, which is why I felt the need for so much sleep meds in the first place.

6 months into my research, I found that long-term cannabis use was associated with the greatest psychological risk among MDMA users.
Those that end up seeing a psychiatrist after MDMA use are much more likely to have been heavy smokers.
And that was certainly true for me, about a decade of near daily use.

Looking back I know for a fact that the weed smoking set me up for the whole thing. Without a doubt.
Also, redosing was a critical requirement for my brain damage to occur.
Each subsequent dose of MDMA produces more and more damage to cortical serotonin nerves.
This is obvious from all animal research on the subject - redosing is required to achieve the desired results.

You don't have to be an MDMA addict to damage your brain.
But other risk factors seem to be necessary for moderate users to end up like me.
However, even MDMA users that use no other drugs will still display cognitive deficits under sensitive testing.
It is likely that MDMA 'damages' everyone's brain that uses it, it is the degree that matters.
The brain is resilient and can accommodate a lot of abuse.
 
My bet is a majority of what your feeling is in your head... you think eye floaters is a comedown? lol
 
You don't have to be an MDMA addict to damage your brain.
But other risk factors seem to be necessary for moderate users to end up like me.
However, even MDMA users that use no other drugs will still display cognitive deficits under sensitive testing.
It is likely that MDMA 'damages' everyone's brain that uses it, it is the degree that matters.
The brain is resilient and can accommodate a lot of abuse.
I see, well I'm not a weed smoker or even cigarette smoker at all, I took a very small bomb and still ended out with the 'LTC'. Luckily I'm experiencing fast improvement within the last month, as in my life is seriously coming back. I think the difference between me and India to you FBC, is we've triggered MDMA-induced anxiety/minimal neurotoxicity whilst you've experienced major neurotoxicity.
 
Firstbadcomedown i appreciate your post, I must admit i did worry when i first saw your posts and heard of the suffering you were going through, I can only sincerely hope you continue to improve

Thejibberman, this is partly true, I say partly because although i was never a heavy user of mdma (I'd only rolled four times in my life before this happened) i feel that unlike you i did abuse the drug, as both times i had an adverse reaction it was because i took a lot for someone small and inexperienced, and mixed with coke and alcohol. As a result I'm probably in for a rougher time than you my friend, but given how messed up some people are on here i'd say i got off pretty lightly! My symptoms upset me but they aren't dehabiltating, they just suck haha
 
Hello comfortablynumb :) I'm doing okay thanks, today wasn't such a great day as i found out my work hours and I've only been given three shifts a week , gonna have to find some things to keep me busy the other four days as I'm really bad when i don't have any plans! I was also pretty downhearted as i drove earlier for the first time since this happened and i found it a lot harder than i thought, even though my Dr/dp isn't severe. I could just be underpracticed but it definitely affects my confidence on the road!

On a more positive note, I'm going to see a counselor tomorrow, i was expecting at least a months wait (i live in Britain so luckily it's free here) but i got one straight away :) also, my sleep is almost back to normal, slept a solid 8 hours last night and didn't wake up as early as i normally do

I'm currently tapering off my kalms as they make me really tired during the day, I think it's mainly because my brain is so exhausted now the anxiety has calmed down, i just want to sleep all the time!

The only thing that i would say affects my ability to go about my day now is the fatigue and brain fog (though this has definitely improved)

I'd say in terms of functionality I'm at 80-85%, comfort and general wellbeing 60-65%

But it's only been a month, a few weeks ago both of those were pretty much zero
 
Oh yeah, i also recently posted on the cannabis forum on here as i had a bit of a set-back after i went to visit my boyfriend (he smokes A LOT of weed in the house). I don't know if it was that or if it was just me being back in his house as that was where everything started. It was almost like some weird ptsd thing, I found myself really nervous being in his room and remembering that terrible first week.
 
I just got done responding to someone with the same basic story.
Alcohol + coke....later MDMA = devastating unforeseen consequences.

I remember seeing that combo many times in the past.
There is something special about alcohol mixed with other drugs.
It overpowers your brain's natural resilience, its ability to cope with the assault that powerful dopamine releasing agents cause.

Maybe there is a vulnerability there to begin with, but cocaine is a powerful damn drug and has a way of screwing up poly drug users really easy.

Yes, I agree that I likely experienced a significant neurological injury that is unique among these stories.
And I'm glad for you.

My first 3 months I was NOT functional in any physical sense.
My mind was out of control with energy and fear, but I couldn't eat food or sleep!
It was so horrible I can't believe I survived it, so already you sound MUCH better off than I was.
I hope that helps.

Whatever you do India, trust me on the this: DO NOT SMOKE WEED FOR A LONG TIME.
Some of the worst soul-destroying days I had during recovery occurred after smoking weed.
I eventually learned to take ONE PUFF and wait about 20 minutes to see if my impending death would occur.

Many many people recovering from MDMA and other psychedelic drugs report a complete INTOLERANCE to cannabis.
And MDMA research suggests that previous cannabis use may be the actual cause of severe MDMA psychopathology.
There is a significant yet unknown relationship between your CBD and 5HT systems.

If nothing else, be very very careful with it.
Smoke as little as possible and observe the consequences.
Over time, it became more and more obvious to me that it had to stop.

Even after 3.5 years I find smoking more than once every few months is a horrible stupid insane idea.
You have been warned...
 
What happens when you smoke weed FBC nowadays? I'm almost at month 6 of my long-term recovery and would like to smoke weed eventually again. I'm doing another six months of no caffeine, alcohol, marijuana, etc. but would like to partake in smoking every once in a while again. I was an avid weed smoker for the past six or so years but haven't touched it since my comedown started. I would assume after 3.5 months of even the worst recoveries you would be more than fine to partake in smoking again.
 
Hello comfortablynumb :) I'm doing okay thanks, today wasn't such a great day as i found out my work hours and I've only been given three shifts a week , gonna have to find some things to keep me busy the other four days as I'm really bad when i don't have any plans! I was also pretty downhearted as i drove earlier for the first time since this happened and i found it a lot harder than i thought, even though my Dr/dp isn't severe. I could just be underpracticed but it definitely affects my confidence on the road!

On a more positive note, I'm going to see a counselor tomorrow, i was expecting at least a months wait (i live in Britain so luckily it's free here) but i got one straight away :) also, my sleep is almost back to normal, slept a solid 8 hours last night and didn't wake up as early as i normally do

I'm currently tapering off my kalms as they make me really tired during the day, I think it's mainly because my brain is so exhausted now the anxiety has calmed down, i just want to sleep all the time!

The only thing that i would say affects my ability to go about my day now is the fatigue and brain fog (though this has definitely improved)

I'd say in terms of functionality I'm at 80-85%, comfort and general wellbeing 60-65%

But it's only been a month, a few weeks ago both of those were pretty much zero

wow! you're recovering pretty fast.
I'm sure in a few months you'll be 100% if not better than before.

stay strong india
 
Firstbadcomedown no don't worry i have no intention of smoking weed (I've had a panic attacks before while high, not fun), I was only concerned as my boyfriend smokes a lot around me. This is probably a silly question but would him smoking weed around me affect my recovery? As i said i really regressed on that day i went to visit, but it could have just been the fact that it brought back memories of the initial comedown

Thank you comfortablynumb :) it feels slow but like you said it isn't, I'm just an impatient person

I meant to ask, has anyone found after the anxiety calmed down that they were just exhausted all the time? I really struggle to find the energy to get through the day, most of my time is spent resisting the urge to nap so I'll sleep well in the evening. I've got a big job interview tomorrow and I'm worried if I'll even be able to stay switched on for the duration of the interview, let alone a full day at work!
 
Hey, I just wanted to jump in and say a nearly identical thing happened to me around six months ago, and although I am not fully recovered nearly all of my symptoms have alleviated.
All I am coping with now is low energy, and a little bit of visual snow that I notice from time to time. I also try to smoke weed every few weeks or so and it is no longer enjoyable. I still feel clinically depressed to an extent but it is absolutely nothing compared to what I experienced in the first three months.
 
Cool to hear from you W0rm, at least everything is diminishing! Low energy? I've been full of energy ever since this has all happened, but that's slowly going away because the anxiety is. I wouldn't try weed until you feel yourself again!
 
Well i was full of energy purely because i was running on adrenaline constantly, now the anxiety has calmed down somewhat I'm left with weird 'hangover' (that is literally what is feels like, like I'm constantly hungover)

Theworm I'm so glad to hear it, especially after reading some of your earlier posts! Have you been taking any supplements? I'm always unsure about putting yet more unnatural stuff into my body but i have been taking vitamin b12 and kalms
 
Well i was full of energy purely because i was running on adrenaline constantly, now the anxiety has calmed down somewhat I'm left with weird 'hangover' (that is literally what is feels like, like I'm constantly hungover)

Theworm I'm so glad to hear it, especially after reading some of your earlier posts! Have you been taking any supplements? I'm always unsure about putting yet more unnatural stuff into my body but i have been taking vitamin b12 and kalms
Could be the kalms that has helped you out there, which is a pretty good shout.

I'm more or less on 2.5 months now, everything is better, literally no trace of depression, racing thoughts or anything anymore. I still question a couple of times in the day whether I'm going to get better, then I just review how I've been doing and get back to the normal state. These last 4 weeks have been phenomenal improvements.

First two weeks (March 9th - around end march):
DR
DP
Brain fog
Unable to focus - when watching tv, I could not focus on the TV, but able to focus on anything around the TV, my central vision process to the brain
Constant racing thoughts
Depression
Fear of mould (it was weird haha)
Constant dizziness
Insomnia
Lack of Libido (literally the whole two weeks was down)
Dry mouth
Uncomfortable awareness of heartbeat
Adrenaline throughout day
Visual activity (extremely bad eye floaters, weird little moving things in vision, bad after images)
Lack of social activity
Horrible memory and intelligence
Phobia of being alone
Questioning my own thoughts ("did i really just hear that?", "is that bag real?" etc.)
Horrible awareness of everything, if a fly would get into my vision I would slightly jump

Now:
Brief 3 second moments of adrenaline (reduced loads in the last week)
Visual activity (eye floaters are getting less noticeable throughout the day, that or I've gotten used to it)
Still question myself here and then (probably like once or twice a day, but it was consistent at the beginning)
Slight awareness of things


I don't really understand how I think I can't get better at little moments!
 
Aw man i can't wait until I reach that mark, keep going Thejibberman!

I haven't been so good these past couple of days because I'm bored and have time to dwell on things, yesterday was definitely the first time in a while i got that 'for fuck sake when am i going to be better, hate this' feeling. That real sorrow and frustration at the mess i'd put myself in made everything so much harder the first few weeks.

This sounds silly but I'm looking forward to the little normal things when I'm better rather than anything extravagant, like simply feeling content again just sat watching a film and enjoying it without getting bored/impatient. Or being able to enjoy picking out something i like in a shop, rather than just getting in and out of there as fast as possible (for some reason my Dr/dp is more noticeable in shops, probably because it's sensory overkill right now).
 
This sounds silly but I'm looking forward to the little normal things when I'm better rather than anything extravagant, like simply feeling content again just sat watching a film and enjoying it without getting bored/impatient. Or being able to enjoy picking out something i like in a shop, rather than just getting in and out of there as fast as possible (for some reason my Dr/dp is more noticeable in shops, probably because it's sensory overkill right now).
I can relate, I can watch films with no weird little episode, I can just think for myself now and I get really happy over it, I've been playing GTA all day and I'm pretty content at the moment!
 
I meant to ask, has anyone found after the anxiety calmed down that they were just exhausted all the time? I really struggle to find the energy to get through the day, most of my time is spent resisting the urge to nap so I'll sleep well in the evening. I've got a big job interview tomorrow and I'm worried if I'll even be able to stay switched on for the duration of the interview, let alone a full day at work!

I find this happens to me as well, contributing to the roller coaster effect of symptoms. It makes for extremely unpredictable days, as you never know how you're going to feel when you start the day. I'm also receiving counselling atm but am considering switching to CBT as i keep reading that it is effective for dp/dr which is what i'm really struggling with atm. Good luck with the interview btw!

I'm actually feeling a lot happier nowadays, that sheer numbness seems to have faded, only resurfacing now and again. I'm really glad i never lost my love of music like some others have stated. In fact since this tlc, certain music has had the power to reduce me to tears, the complete opposite. In terms of my dp/dr, it seems to have calmed down a bit, not disappeared, but become a bit more manageable. I have been able to go into supermarkets and not feel spaced out, which is a big improvement from a month ago when it was an overwhelming experience. i can also read fine, whereas a month ago it was like words were just markings on a page and i really had to focus hard. If i read fast the lack of focus meant that i would read a few words from a sentence, and then take in a couple from the next sentence and make my own meaning up in my head from that combination. That has improved.

I also have been having long periods of time without feeling dp/dr. Whereas it used to be incessant over the course of a day, i now seem to dip in and out of it. What i experience now during the dips is occasional weirdness for a few seconds, like i'm zoning out and i have to blink hard to bring myself back. I still struggle with wide open spaces. I live in london and work near tower bridge, where the wide open space next to city hall with views over the river, the colour of the paving stones, the river, the buildings and the sky is overwhelming. My sleep is still fucked, but i've found that really focusing on relaxing in the evenings, gets me a much more comfortable sleep.

I'm beginning to recognise the triggers that set me off. If i am feeling overworked and stressed/anxious, then my dp/dr is worse. My sleep is usually worse on those nights. Whereas if i take it easy and drop any work i have, take a bath and get to bed early then i sleep for much longer.

Personality wise, although I still feel a bit lethargic and withdrawn, I feel a lot more vibrant, spontaneous and engaged then I did a month ago. I've rediscovered my charisma and can joke around a lot easier.

I really believe most of my symptoms are anxiety related, however the floaters on sunny days and hppd i'm not so sure about. Thankfully they don't bother me too much.

I'm 3.5 months into my tlc and i think things are improving s-l-o-w-l-y, but i've accepted my symptoms and i try to get on with life. in fact i'm probably living life to the full more than i used to, just minus the drugs and alcohol. I'm exercising more, spending more time with friends and pushing my career. It's hard as i do get overwhelmed and tired a lot easier than i used to, but it's about finding that balance between doing the things that are good for your life and recovery, and taking it easy.
 
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