Opioids Loperamide (Immodium) Megathread: We have now lost at least 2 of our own from Lope

[Hammilton]

I don't think this is dangerous in small doses. I don't think there have been any deaths from taking 10 or even 20mg, but when people take 40+ and mix it with alcohol we see very bad things.

I suspect that alcohol in recreational doses may prevent the blood brain barrier from properly filtering the drug, it would make sense, because for the level of effects one would achieve with loperamide alone one wouldn't expect acute mixed drug intoxication, maybe minor additive effects. Alcohol is common in all overdoses, but I think there's something different going on with this particular combination.

 

[happydaysover]

Well I have the long awaited toxicology report and it seems they have been incompetent as they either forgot to test for the lope or forgot to include it in the report. We have a doctor onto the situation. As our son told a friend he had taken lope, complained of constipation and we found 5 empty packets we have no reason to believe he didn't take it.
As it stands the doses of other meds reported should be (confirmed by a doctor) non fatal.The venaflaxine and quetiapine (serequel) are his normal meds. I have posted what we have for now so you can see for yourselves.
The only other thing mentioned was a small cystic lesion in the third ventricle of his brain which they stated had nothing to do with his death.
Without any mention of lope then his passing from brain hypoxia makes no sense.
I will post more when I know more.

Alcohol 0.015 g/100ml
Codeine 0.01 mg/l
Delta-9-THC 0.006 mg/l
Doxylamine 0.07 mg/l
Paracetamol <5mg/l
Quetiapine 0.60 mg/l
Quinine 0.05 mg/l
Venaflaxine 0.74 mg/l

 

[Timland]

TY for the details happydaysover.

I am not sure if that value of Quinine in his system is significant or not, I don't know how to extrapolate those figures to how much was ingested but...

Adding to what Hammilton said above about the blood brain barrier and ethanol ... if he took a significant amount of Quinine and/or Quinidine that also is a potent drug that also inhibits the BBB's function so... combining two BBB inhibitors would certainly allow more Loperamide into the CNS. I never inhibit mine intentionally for the reason that Loperamide would be too potent if even 1% entered the CNS from a mere 2mg.

I am not a professional, but my educated guess is the Quinine is the most dangerous factor in your son's case.

Add to that the fact he was a non-tolerant opioid user and it is clear how even a small dose of Loperamide could cause opioid overdose via hypoxia and respiratory failure

And of course ethanol is always a dangerous drug to combine with anything that slows respiration. I have consumed ethanol while on Lope twice and I can say I readied my naltrexone and had a stimulant because it did slow me down to levels that gave me cause for concern -- thus I never repeated it. Had I combined it with Quinine and/or Quinidine... I probably would've suffered the same fate.

Thanks for posting this information, I have been thinking awhile about the potential your son's case was related to the possibility of QTc interval / cardiovascular issues so while it is still a tragedy I am relieved that it wasnt related to cardio because that would make Lope unsafe even as an antidiarrheal if it interfered with heart function like that.


So to anyone else reading this.. take note that its NOT safe at all to deliberately interfere with BBB function by using drugs like Quinine to potentiate a drug that already can enter the BBB alone. Unless directed to for a specific medical reason - I think one application used is certain kinds of parasitical infections.

EDIT- Specifically, Quinine/Quinidine inhibits BBB function by interfering with p-Glycoprotein which is a substance used to prevent many kinds of molecules from entering the brain.

And the other danger here is never mix OTC or Rx depressants, including things like Diphenhydramine aka Benadryl with things like opioids.

 

[Sprout]

12mgs of Lope a day is seeing me through WD. That dose is not eliminating the symptoms, but bringing them down a few points on the scale.

I second fucking about with the BBB, there is a reason it is there.

 

[DrinksWithEvil]

I drank tons of vodka and took 60mg before I went to sleep for days felt fine

 

[happydaysover]

TY for the details happydaysover.

I am not sure if that value of Quinine in his system is significant or not, I don't know how to extrapolate those figures to how much was ingested but...

Adding to what Hammilton said above about the blood brain barrier and ethanol ... if he took a significant amount of Quinine and/or Quinidine that also is a potent drug that also inhibits the BBB's function so... combining two BBB inhibitors would certainly allow more Loperamide into the CNS. I never inhibit mine intentionally for the reason that Loperamide would be too potent if even 1% entered the CNS from a mere 2mg.

I am not a professional, but my educated guess is the Quinine is the most dangerous factor in your son's case.

Add to that the fact he was a non-tolerant opioid user and it is clear how even a small dose of Loperamide could cause opioid overdose via hypoxia and respiratory failure

And of course ethanol is always a dangerous drug to combine with anything that slows respiration. I have consumed ethanol while on Lope twice and I can say I readied my naltrexone and had a stimulant because it did slow me down to levels that gave me cause for concern -- thus I never repeated it. Had I combined it with Quinine and/or Quinidine... I probably would've suffered the same fate.

Thanks for posting this information, I have been thinking awhile about the potential your son's case was related to the possibility of QTc interval / cardiovascular issues so while it is still a tragedy I am relieved that it wasnt related to cardio because that would make Lope unsafe even as an antidiarrheal if it interfered with heart function like that.


So to anyone else reading this.. take note that its NOT safe at all to deliberately interfere with BBB function by using drugs like Quinine to potentiate a drug that already can enter the BBB alone. Unless directed to for a specific medical reason - I think one application used is certain kinds of parasitical infections.

EDIT- Specifically, Quinine/Quinidine inhibits BBB function by interfering with p-Glycoprotein which is a substance used to prevent many kinds of molecules from entering the brain.

And the other danger here is never mix OTC or Rx depressants, including things like Diphenhydramine aka Benadryl with things like opioids.

My sons doctor looked up recorded deaths for lope and found four that had combined lope with quinadine but none for quinine. He didn't think quinine from drinking tonic water would do anything. I really don't know if it did or not. Maybe we will Iknow more when we get further results.

 

[Dawglaw]

Pure speculation: but quinine may be circumstantial evidence of alcohol ingestion as it is a primary ingredient in tonic water.

I have not seen anyone drink tonic by itself.

 

[weliveinawheel]

After taking about 2mg of suboxone to prevent withdrawals from a 15-30mg percocet daily for around a year habit, I fell incredibly ill. It felt like the flu times 1000.

I have 20 perc15s and 20 perc5s and it's been about 40hrs since I took the suboxone.

I am still a bit sick but I am actually afraid to take the percs. Maybe a good thing? I am feeling a little better with every passing hour even without the percs.

Do you think the rest of my detoxing will be better moving forward? Or are these flu symptoms going to come back?

Would it be stupid to take perc and slowly use what I have to taper... Or am I better without?

Anybody hear of lyrica helping

 

[weliveinawheel]

Oops. Wrong thread. I am so sorry.

 

[f33lg00d]

I drink vodka tonics and take dph everytime I take lope.

 

[happydaysover]

It was on the post he read that to get a high from lope you take it with tonic water and grapefruit juice and black pepper to cross the BBB. He really wasn't much of a drinker at all Dawglaw.

 

[JohnWayne]

HELP HELP HELP!!!! I knobw this is not the right forum, but i neef a fast response. might be odding on coke anything to make me come down faster. hospital is last resort. hands lock up face twiching. hypetrventlaating. body numb. vertigo , hands shaking bad body numb. breathinb like i ran marathon. takne me liek 30 mnin to create account typing wiht middle ifnger cant move others. it will fell lik3e im beginning to come down but then will fly bacak up. anything i can do to increase come down. eat, wAater. BTW i snorted some water tryinbg to clear out mucus membranes abd iddea got haed rush & fell down. I will copy this and psot this on evefy realtivy new post. please be quick.

FWI snorted ~1.5g wiht buddy from ~1045-145

eyes now snarting twitch.

 

[vortech]

^I think you have the wrong thread, nothing in your post has anything to do with lope, but I hope you stopped posting and contacted an emergency.

I've been taking suboxone for over a week now, 6-8mg a day, coming off 24 mg of lope a day and I'm STILL having trouble with diahrrea. I haven't had a fully solid bowel movement yet. From what I understand there is no use taking any lope in combination with suboxone, correct? I'm hoping my body stabilizes soon.

 

[Flaga121]

WOAH. Liquid shits on subs? Thats amazing.

 

[coherent]

Woah. I did not know this was an opiate. I was on them in the hospital because of bowel surgery. I asked my doctor if I should take them at home and he said no because I could back up and get sick. Will all opiates have an effect on the bowel like immodium does?

 

[f33lg00d]

All opioids cause constipation to some degree, lopes the best at it though.

 

[anythingbutsober]

HELP HELP HELP!!!! I knobw this is not the right forum, but i neef a fast response. might be odding on coke anything to make me come down faster. hospital is last resort. hands lock up face twiching. hypetrventlaating. body numb. vertigo , hands shaking bad body numb. breathinb like i ran marathon. takne me liek 30 mnin to create account typing wiht middle ifnger cant move others. it will fell lik3e im beginning to come down but then will fly bacak up. anything i can do to increase come down. eat, wAater. BTW i snorted some water tryinbg to clear out mucus membranes abd iddea got haed rush & fell down. I will copy this and psot this on evefy realtivy new post. please be quick.

FWI snorted ~1.5g wiht buddy from ~1045-145

eyes now snarting twitch.

please please get off the internet & get to an emergency room. i hope you're okay.

Woah. I did not know this was an opiate. I was on them in the hospital because of bowel surgery. I asked my doctor if I should take them at home and he said no because I could back up and get sick. Will all opiates have an effect on the bowel like immodium does?

yes, although immodium's sole purpose is to stop diarrhea & cause constipation, so it will be the most effective. other opiates/opioids will have constipation as a side effect, with pain relief as the main effect.

 

[Tryptamite]

HELP HELP HELP!!!! I knobw this is not the right forum, but i neef a fast response. might be odding on coke anything to make me come down faster. hospital is last resort. hands lock up face twiching. hypetrventlaating. body numb. vertigo , hands shaking bad body numb. breathinb like i ran marathon. takne me liek 30 mnin to create account typing wiht middle ifnger cant move others. it will fell lik3e im beginning to come down but then will fly bacak up. anything i can do to increase come down. eat, wAater. BTW i snorted some water tryinbg to clear out mucus membranes abd iddea got haed rush & fell down. I will copy this and psot this on evefy realtivy new post. please be quick.

FWI snorted ~1.5g wiht buddy from ~1045-145

eyes now snarting twitch.

I too hope you are ok. But let this be a lesson to you, dont be so haphazzard and irresponsible in future. There is far too much stupidy around drug use among new (and some old!!!) posters on this forum.

 

[lolwhatzdrugs]

I drank tons of vodka and took 60mg before I went to sleep for days felt fine

So what? That's not particularly helpful. Another member of the forum consumed more lope than that with alcohol and is no longer with us.

I drink vodka tonics and take dph everytime I take lope.

Again, this is not useful information. I've seen people down 25 norcos at a time, twice a day, and later have an ok liver function test, but that doesn't mean that taking 25 norcos won't kill some people. You have a tolerance to opioids, maybe quinine is more effective at inhibition than we know and it could be dangerous for tonic-water drinkers who are non-tolerant who take some immodium as indicated, especially if they're older and have reduced function at clearing metabolizing drugs.

My sons doctor looked up recorded deaths for lope and found four that had combined lope with quinadine but none for quinine. He didn't think quinine from drinking tonic water would do anything. I really don't know if it did or not. Maybe we will Iknow more when we get further results.

From what I understood, the amounts of those drugs in modern tonic water are insignificant. Small doses of quinine in modern beverages are added merely for the bitter flavor. Unfortunately I'm not aware of any tests which compare varying doses of quinine Vs. p-glycoprotien inhibition. Thank you for posting the toxicology numbers, I can't imagine why they didn't test for loperamide when it was mentioned as a possible cause; they test for other common stuff, even things which are unlikely to cause interactions.

 

[katcarson]

Hi -- again, so sorry for your loss. Cases where the patient has survived usually involve v-tach leading to cardiac arrest (There's at least two in the literature that I know of, probably others that I haven't seen yet.). That's something that wouldn't show on a coroner's report. Hypoxia and respiratory failure would happen secondary to sudden cardiac arrest. And yes, quinine probably wouldn't do much to potentiate the loperamide. Hope that helps... and I'm so sorry for what you're going through.