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Recovery I can't go on, I'll go on

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Courage dreamflyer, courage to you. Stay strong and remember you can only help those who want help. I'm sorry about your mom, I know that is hard to watch. When my mom was first diagnosed with cancer, she didn't want to fight it on her own terms. We kids accepted that it was her choice, and a couple weeks down the road she changed her mind, and started fighting it like she has fought everything else I've ever watched her face. Those first couple of weeks were scary though, we thought she had already given up. Your mom will get help on her own terms, and there is nothing us 'kids' can do (i'm in my 40's, but still her kid ;).

Take care of yourself, and good luck at the therapist's office!

GRSH...is your mom still alive?
 
Hey Sim- I was thinking back on something that I thought you had wrote (if not please forgive me) and thought about something I should have shared at the time I read it...

There are lots of people in the program that still miss, and even crave, their drug of choice 10, 20, even 30 years down the road. Oddly enough (or maybe not) most of them are people that used needles, while their DOC is often different, the route of administration is almost always needles for the people that I know who still crave. I don't remember if you even mention the route you used, so please don't be offended if this is not the case for you. My points are:
1: You are not alone in this, though you rarely hear about these cravings in meetings.
2: The people that I know who still feel this way get past it by completing the story, or 'Playing the tape all the way through'. For instance, when the craving rears it's head; okay I put that needle back in my arm, it is bliss... 3 days down the road I am in full swing addiction again. A month down the road I find myself in jail again, and I've lost everything. My significant other has kicked me out, taken the ____, and everything else, I am alone, and looking at ____ again. {end tape} (and this is where you win that fight with your DOC) 'That will suck! I don't want to do that again! I paid that price, I conquered that drug I _____. I'm not going back there again, my doc is not worth losing everything that I worked for again!'

While we all have different bottoms, and not all of us need to lose everything in our lives to get clean, we all have a bottom. Otherwise we have no reason for getting clean. Thus the 'tape' we keep in our heads of the place that dope (whatever it is) took us, where we landed with a crash that made each and every one of us decide we didn't want to be there again.

I am so glad that your doggy is doing better! Often even the fear of losing our pets (which for many of us are our children) can cause very deep depression spirals. I'm so glad he is doing better.

On a different subject- I wanted to make sure that both Simco and Dreamflyer understand that my WOW was because what you guys were saying struck a deep cord within me. I did not want insert anything but my appreciation.

Thank you both! grsh
 
Simco- She is, thank you for asking. Her cancer is not a fast one, but it is also not curable. So she will be around for awhile (thank goodness), but she will never be cancer-free again.
 
Sim- so glad your dog is doing better. Dreamflyer-I so wish you were my neighbor. I need a good girlfriend to hang out with. You are awesome and I love your posts. Airplane is a hilarious movie. I wouldve help you smash the teacups or sat quietly until you were finished not blaming you

I still continue trying and hoping. The sub Dr I was planning to go to stopped praticing. I also am currently in Florida (live in Philadelphia)-my husbands father died today. We flew in yesterday afternoon. Being here deters me from getting heroin. When I have money in 2 days I'll be here still Im hoping the laspe will help towards sobriety. I will look for another sub Dr.

On a funny note-there is a hilarious Amazon Gray parrot that whistles and also makes obnoxious sounds when angry (passing gas, screaming baby) across the street from my mother-in-laws house at her neighbors. It cat-calls too lol. Whenever I walk outside it whistles at me. Unbelievably intelligent animal. It makes me laugh and that is always a god thing. Hope everyone is in a good place tonight. Xoxo
 
Simco- She is, thank you for asking. Her cancer is not a fast one, but it is also not curable. So she will be around for awhile (thank goodness), but she will never be cancer-free again.

That's a tough scene, GRSH. My dad is in the same boat right now. He's treading water, but his cancer will stay with him. Good luck to you and your mom! Stay strong.
 
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GRSH-that is really good coping info you posted. I am an IV heroin user currently chipping a few times a month. I suppose theres. Something about that instant rush when IV'ing or going from utterly incapacitated to well in 10seconds All I know is its maddening and heartbreaking. Anyway, thankyou for sharing that information. I plan to implement that into my situation.
 
That's a tough scene, GRSH. My dad is in the same boat right now. He's treading water, but his cancer will stay with him. Good luck to you and your mom! Stay strong.

Same to you Simco- it is a tough place to be, knowing that someone you love is so sick. And thank you.
 
GRSH-that is really good coping info you posted. I am an IV heroin user currently chipping a few times a month. I suppose theres. Something about that instant rush when IV'ing or going from utterly incapacitated to well in 10seconds All I know is its maddening and heartbreaking. Anyway, thankyou for sharing that information. I plan to implement that into my situation.
I hope it helps! If you ever need to talk, please feel free to contact me, I know you are in a tough spot... I wish you luck with the situation you are in Florida for as well as getting healthy long term.
 
Dreamflyer, I totally hear you about the nasal fixation. I started out snorting my dope. And while I did end up banging it, most of my nostalgia has to do with chopping it up etc. (OK, gotta stop with the triggering stuff). I was always really torn about shooting...obviously part of me loved it. But I always felt horribly guilty when I did it. Towards the end, everything was so fucked up that even the guilt was part of the appeal...it just didn't feel like a normal day unless I hated myself while I registered.

After I finally got away from heroin, I even had a brief cocaine jag...I hated coke, but the urge to rail something, anything, was really strong. That took a long time to go away. But it (mostly) did.

Hoping everyone is holding up today! Sending you all my love.
Sim
 
I can't believe I forgot to mention this... it's been about a month now since I stopped taking naltrexone. Altogether it was about 9 months that I was on it. First month or so was oral form. Then 7 months on vivitrol. Then another month on the pills. Stopping was my decision (actually mine and my wife's). Basically, when we moved away from the Midwest I had a little over a month's supply. I finished that out and decided I'd take a break to see where I stand. Now that I no longer live in dope central I figured temptation would be less. And 9 months is inside the recommended duration of naltrexone treatment for opioid use disorder.

So far it's been OK without. I'm having cravings. And I suppose it is the case that I *have* been monkeying around with kratom, which I know is stupid. But I believe the cravings and the kratom are because, due to starting a new job, I can't use cannabis (which I am convinced helps with those issues).

Definitely no feelings like I'm going to go drive around the ghetto to find a guy or whatever. Also, I'm still doing drug tests (I snap a picture of them and send them to several folks who have my back) every three days, so I'm on a fairly short leash.
 
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^opioid *use* disorder ;)

I really like the idea of the protocol that uses oral naltrexone as a lead up to sustained release injection. Jumping right into that seems rather problematic - it someone isn't able to manage on oral naltrexone it's a sign they might want to adjust their approach a tad before jumping into Vivitrol.

Although I imagine you have gotten used to it by now, I don't know if I could do that kinda thing with drug testing. I always hated drug testing for some reason, irregardless of whether I was using or not. Are you still using any kratom, and whether you are or not, how is that going?

Boy, what a great thread, from start to present <3
 
Dream flyer-I'd be honored to be your wingman lol. Sorry about mixup! I too am a quiet neighbor-well for the most part. With some of my shenanigans mixed in. I still love your posts. Makes no difference to me-male or female.

I love all you guys/girls. And yes TPD-this is an awesome thread. Lots of real, incredible stuff in it. xoxo
 
^opioid *use* disorder ;)

I really like the idea of the protocol that uses oral naltrexone as a lead up to sustained release injection. Jumping right into that seems rather problematic - it someone isn't able to manage on oral naltrexone it's a sign they might want to adjust their approach a tad before jumping into Vivitrol.

Although I imagine you have gotten used to it by now, I don't know if I could do that kinda thing with drug testing. I always hated drug testing for some reason, irregardless of whether I was using or not. Are you still using any kratom, and whether you are or not, how is that going?

Boy, what a great thread, from start to present

The drug testing is obviously a weird deal. Actually, I think my wife likes it less than me. We started it to try to repair some of the trust that had broken down when I was using. I'm not sure quite what will become of it. But for now, it's not too bad...I administer the tests myself, snap a pic of them, and send the pic to my core supporters (wife and best friend). It's imperfect. But hey, so am I.
 
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I forgot to respond to your question about kratom, TPD. I've been tapering it down. Today I haven't done any, and I'm hoping to do that again tomorrow.

It's a strange compulsion. I find myself drawn to it even though it has almost zero perceivable effect. Honestly, I think I've been doing it due to boredom while I wait for this new job to start. Idle hands and all that.

I really am looking forward to when I can start using cannabis again. I'm not super happy that I seem to depend on it. But weed does help me relax, and seems to keep my more destructive impulses at bay.
 
^^ Prayers and good vibes for you and your mom...all I can send, Dreamflyer <3

Is there possibly another person in your mom's life who might have more success in helping her get to a doctor? Sometimes the idiosyncrasies of a particular relationship make that kind of argument hard for us to make. Maybe someone a little less close--a friend? A sibling? The weight on you of having to watch your mom go through that sounds intolerable, and it doesn't surprise me at all that you're not sleeping (not to mention the symptoms you described).
 
Short answer is that you have to answer those questions for yourself. The long answer is...

Basically it's like this: the vast majority of people in recovery are not medical professionals and have no business telling you what meds you should or shouldn't be taking. On top of that, most doctors who work with current or former drug users have little to no experience with it. So you're kinda left in a place where you have to do your own research and make up your own mind about what you need to help you achieve your goals.

My goals have always prioritized QOL over total abstience (I don't really give a shit about using drugs if I'm even more miserable with it). In fact, unless your drug use was directly harming others (such as when alcohol users get violent/abusive), it isn't even the drug use that is the problem. Furthermore, not all drug use is created equal - drinking booze for someone who has a tendency to get abusive and violent under the influence is far different from replacing it with an appropriate medication like baclofen.

Does the drug use or medication lead to creating more or less harm in your life? That is perhaps the question for you. And what's more, is it keeping you from achieving your goals. And I'm not talking about the long term goal of total abstience, I'm talking about growing and developing as an individual, getting things straight with housing, employment or school, getting ones mental and physical health in order, etc.

What are YOUR goals in this dreamflyer? If we could put the question of abstience aside for a moment, what else do you want and need out of YOUR recovery?

If there is anything I've learned, even among 12 step bleeding decons, each of our recovery processes will a little different. There is no one path to recovery, only the path you create for yourself. And what that looks like depends on your particular needs, wants and goals.

As I like to say, sobriety is first and foremost a state of mind. Drug use may or may not keep you from achieving such. What has been kind cool for me to experience is that, as I have begun to achieve my own goals in this more and more (no longer engaging in illegal behavior, more or less healthy relationship with family and friends, no longer using opioids, learned how to meditate, got into a good grad school, etc), I am simply less and less interested in drug use. I have experienced something similar happening for almost without exception others I've met in recovery, regardless of whether they went an abstience only route or slowly reduced their use and switched to less harmful substance use.

Something else interesting to point out that might be helpful is that the abstience only model is actually itself a product of our drug policy (prohibition and the war on drugs). That is a model rather ironically rooted in a lopsided focus on public safety. If you want to take a more public health approach to your recovery, abstience (whether its total abstience from all mind altering substances or abstience from harmful behavior) will end up being the result, total abstience not so much the means.

Perhaps it might be helpful to distinguish between abstience and the more black and white total abstience from all mind altering substances. I focused on abstience, first from heroin, then methadone, then other drugs more and more. Abstience from harmful drug use doesn't necessarily require total black and white abstience. I'd focus on dealing with the more problematic issues of your habits, not limited to drug use, and go from there.

This stuff is so personal, it's really a developmental/learning process. And that takes time. Learning takes making mistakes. Recovery requires two things really, keeping yourself alive and learning to become more resilient. As hard as it is, it's actually kinda a blessing. Few people get such a chance to reimagine themselves.

If you don't already have your own recovery journal thread, I highly recommend you start one. You'll get good support. And I'd love to hear your story.

Recovery is never a black and white thing. It is a process. My short and long term goals have always included abstience, but they include far more than just that. When abstience is your only identifiable goal, that is when I tend to see things get problematic.
 
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^^
DF, it sounds like you may have heard definitions of clean/sober in 12-step circles or similar. NA in particular is famous for the line--read at the start of each meeting--Ours is a program of complete abstinence from all drugs. For them, sobriety is truly an all or nothing proposition. And this is similar in many recovery communities.

But the fact is, definitions don't matter...or at least they're not important here. What is important is your own set of personal goals in recovery? We get clean for ourselves, first and foremost. You are the only person your recovery has to satisfy (again, barring outside circumstances such a courts). So I'd turn your question around: what does a life free from the damaging effects of drugs look like for you?

Just as an example, I'll explain a bit of where I've come down on this question. But keep in mind, this is what I decided for me...your thoughts will surely be different.

In my recovery, I want to regain the energy and interest in the world that I had a long time ago. Drugs took these things from me. But it wasn't just drugs...it was depression and a generally fucked up way of looking at the world, too. So for me, recovery means controlling my drug use, but also learning to be in my own head more successfully.

On a more concrete level, there are a few things that are really important to me about controlling drugs' effect on my life.

I have determined that I simply can't do opioids recreationally without incurring huge damage. I've tried every trick I could think of to use them successfully, with no luck. So opioids are off the table.

I want to minimize how much time I spend dealing with people who are likely to hurt me, rob me, or get me thrown in jail. I used to be almost as addicted to the lifestyle surrounding heroin as I was to the drug itself. Way too many close calls--and some really bad outcomes.

I never want to lie or dissemble about my drug use to people I love. I know that as soon as I start doing this, my using (of whatever substance) is out of my control.

Now, I've never written these out...they've always been in the back of my head. But looking at them, they seem about right. I guess the big point for now is that with the exception of the bit about opioids, my goals are behavior-related, not really focused on any particular drugs.

Also, I should stress that these are aspirations. I don't always live up to these goals. And if I'm honest, I imagine the day will come when I get cocky or blue and really break one or more of them. But these goals give me something to shoot for. I've found that that makes a huge difference.

I hope this can help you find a little peace. You really deserve it, brother.
 
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Wow. Im blown away by your posts TPD and Sim. Excellent definitions.

DF- my decinition of sober ia as long a a s Im not shooting dope I cant stay in control w it. Opiates also have to be off tthe table for me. I cannot have a life w them.

I wodnt stop taking mental healtb meds I take gabapentin for bipolar2 and it changed my life. It stopped me from. living w crippling a anxiety and panic atyacks

Sonriety, I believe is your abilith to have a healthy, productive life on your terms.

Hang in tbere. Im feeling rough too.
 
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