Esoteric [Ego-Death Subthread] Why is it a good thing?

[littlebitflip]

I felt like I had to question the teacher(psychedelic drugs) and so I did. I'm all for psychedelic exploration I just wanted to question the foundation of it to see what people would say. It's been a nice thread full of non-ego related advice and that's pretty cool.

btw Tchaikovsky rocks!

Everyone should open up their lid and let the sunshine in at least once in their lifetime

 

[endlesseulogy]

There is no such thing as ego death because in not wanting to desire you are still desiring. Ego is just a term, a label, with no tangiable meaning. Your ego is always dead, or alive, its just a term.. the only thing that is, is what is. The things you feel when you experience this so called state are always there with you, you just dont see them.. Id rather refer to this as illumination rather then ego death as it is very easy to get lost in terms and language.

 

[vegan]

^^ well, if you don't want to get lost in terms and language, let's call ego death "ego death" and illumination "illumination", since they're not the same thing, fit what they describe, and everyone already agrees on which is which

There is no such thing as ego death because in not wanting to desire you are still desiring

what do you mean by "in not wanting to desire"?
do you mean "in searching ego death"?
there's no contradiction, that's before the experience, not during it

 

[Jamshyd]

There is no such thing as ego death because in not wanting to desire you are still desiring. Ego is just a term, a label, with no tangiable meaning. Your ego is always dead, or alive, its just a term.. the only thing that is, is what is. The things you feel when you experience this so called state are always there with you, you just dont see them.. Id rather refer to this as illumination rather then ego death as it is very easy to get lost in terms and language.

I deeply dissagree.

I think that that which is, is not .

 

[B240C]

Thanks for the kind words

Well, I did not take this quote from anyone that I know of.

However, the Sun is a symbol of the Ego in many cultures and literatures (usually esoteric).

he is right though, very deep and meaningful but with a minimum of words. couldnt have said it better myself


but on a different note, after experiencing ego loss again since my last post on this thread...im not sure how one could really put the process into words. its like trying to describe what E is like to a non experienced person..near impossible..

 

[genaro]

Ego death: fantasy or reality ?

First, let's forget about all what T. Mc kenna, T.Leary, buddhist monks, shamans, castaneda or acid users may have been saying about it...

isn't ego death just what you call a "trance state" ?
I mean if your conscious ego "dies", then your acting should be like automatic, as a pure expression of your soul which would stop looking at the mirror and just act: your instinct would be riding a wave while your mind is away from any thoughts, opinion or judgment about what you're doing, the only thing your mind would feel being "I" , as a fact (and that's all).
Which is somewhat what you experience when dreaming (I mean common dreaming, not lucid dreaming: you're the purest expression of yourself, you are your ego, therefore your ego isn't there anymore, the only thing you know about yourself being "I")
This is what a "trance state" is to me...Is it what people here would call ego death ? (I'm asking to people who once had an experience which they feel deep in they heart was true ego death, not just something they think "looks like" what people describe as ego death)

 

[endlesseulogy]

^Its simple Zen philosophy, in achiving ego death you are wanting to end desire. Even in wanting a specific state of consciousness, you are still using you're ego. So ego is used to bring about ego death. Ego dosnt have to have negitive conitations. So again, the very process of wanting something, is you're ego, therefore you are "desiring not to desire". You're ego is always there, its you. Becoming one with the univese is simply a process of alignment whereby you're ego stops thinking about itself and re-aligns itself with other elements of reality. But at the end of the day, its still YOU that wants to feel this way. So in the end, I believe there is nothing that "dies". The truth of unity consciousness is always there, its just we cant see it. Timothy Leary had his head up his ass when he started bringing in the concept of "ego death" in relation to psychedelics beacuse this creates a duality in a state that should be free of duality. Everything is, just is. It trancends concepts of language. In applying the concept of ego death, it creates a hiarachy involving the haves of the experience and the have nots...

 

[theghostofbillhicks]

What dies is not true. Those of us lucky enough to have gone through ego-death know this.

Those brave psychedelic warriors, reduced to their very essence, lose the suffering attendant to the fear of death.

I wish you all not to be overwhelmed by ego death, when it finally comes, in whatever form.

peace.

 

[Jamshyd]

My dear endlesseulogy... you seem to enjoy the masochistic practice of tangling one's self in one's words.

Although I agree with you that "desiring not desiring" is self defeating, it only is if you take your words too seriously. You are arguing a case against those who "know that nothing is knowable", and yet you seem to fall in the same trap.

 

[vegan]

So ego is used to bring about ego death. Ego dosnt have to have negitive conitations. So again, the very process of wanting something, is you're ego, therefore you are "desiring not to desire". You're ego is always there, its you

you're ego is always there... before the experience
but during the experience, you don't even remember you were desiring this state
i really don't see why you're looking for a contradiction here
that said, "ego loss" is probably more correct than "ego death"

 

[fastandbulbous]

For me, ego loss is defined by the experience of existance without any ref back to any memories etc that are specific to me. It's like the loss of subjective experience of conciousness - no personal 'filters' distorting and giving more weight to some things than others because of past experience. It all just flows into your memory in the raw state.

As far as creating that state, several drugs achieve the same end result, but take different routes to get there. As far as being useful in helping people come to terms with dying, I'd def say that the most useful is ketamine. I had a naturally induced NDE when I lost my hand at the age of 13 (which also helped me to come to terms with my fear of death, which had terrified me up to that age) and high doses of IM ketamine come pretty close to reproducing that state. The 5HT psychedelics might help one come to an understanding of the nature of subjective reality, but I've yet to have one that could even come close to reproducing the natural NDE the way ketamine does.

 

[endlesseulogy]

My dear endlesseulogy... you seem to enjoy the masochistic practice of tangling one's self in one's words.

Although I agree with you that "desiring not desiring" is self defeating, it only is if you take your words too seriously. You are arguing a case against those who "know that nothing is knowable", and yet you seem to fall in the same trap.

Say mascochistic 10 times... does it sound better?

 

[iffy]

Hi,

I'm an idealist to the max. I think that the whole world should have the opportunity of spiritual enlightenment, through psychadelics or otherwise. But at the moment, half the world is hungry, half of those are cold, half of those are homeless, and so on.

All of this talk about ego-loss and having to spend a lifetime interpreting it, seems so very self indulgent. Shouldnt we really put down the drugs and start thinking about other people? Then when everyone is fed and warm, we can then all worry about ourselves.

Peace,
iffy.

 

[FisheyeLens]

The answer is in your question : ego death is the best way to embrace the Ultimate experience, the only certainty for humans -> WE WILL ALL DIE

This is one of the opportunities brought by an ego death experience.

When you understand and accept, that one day, you will die, you become better able to live HERE AND NOW.

I guess that you probably already know that one day, you will die. But an intellectual understanding is not the same thing as an emotional understanding, an understanding that comes from your heart, from the inside.

Ego death leads you to such emotional confrontation. It can eventualy help you to understand that you are not only your ego, that there is something deeper than this psychological structure/defense.

For ego death as for biological death, the key word is ACCEPTANCE .

Peace

SickJack

Damn well said!

 

[StratusBouce]

Shrooms are the best for killing the fuck out of my ego, ever sense the first time I tried them, I've also tried Salvia, LSD, DOB, MDMA/MDA, DXM .

I've only done true LSD once and I experienced a bit of ego death but it made me alot happier than shrooms so I was alot more sociable, i was actualy able to talk to people at the party for the most part.

But the ego death that comes from shrooms aggrivates me sometimes, I try to talk to people and they know im tripping so of course theyr'e fuckin with me but theres some times i don't know what to think about what theyre saying.

It leaves me feeling real stupid I'll ask my friend "What?" about 20 times then he'll say "It's getting late......" and look at a clock or something then i'll ask "What?" again while obviously enjoying the visuals and then he'll give me the silent treatment and i'll think hes plotting something behind my back.

Come to think of it im pretty mad at some people right now for runing my good trips.

 

[Jamshyd]

Say mascochistic 10 times... does it sound better?

LOL :D.

No, it does not sound better. It has so many disjointed syllables that it makes for a lousy mantram .

EDIT: In case you weren't joking... I did not intend to call your practice "masochistic" as an insult. I happen to be a masochistic person myself. Although I prefer semi-masochistic practices sexually, I also tend to be masochistic in my day-to-day practices. Some of these masochistic practices incluse masochistic self-bastardisation, masochistic suidical ideation, masochistic flirtation with people I know are unatainable, fantasies of a masochistic nature, and masochistic public self-humiliation.

...Oh wait, there I've said it 10 times!

 

[genaro]

no one really answered my post about "trance states & dreaming vs ego death" (page 3 of the thread) by telling me which part of my reasoning is right or wrong and why, based on their own experience of ego death. I'd really like ego death experienced people to give me their opinion on the hypothesis I formulated.


And one more question I would add: when experimenting an NDE, aren't you in some ego death state? (because if you would not then you should be quite anxious of what's happening)

 

[The Liberal Media]

Never ask why ask " why not"

 

[Tiesto]

it makes u realize you and your problems are not IT. you are nothing, you are a small part of the whole. makes you realize that you need to appreciate the small things and not worry so much about things that used to bother you (material goods, appearance, etc)

I totally know what you're saying..

 

[blunts]

ego death?

ive heard about ego death and i never really understood it. is there anyone thati can give me a simple explaination and how people have it?