Esoteric [Ego-Death Subthread] Why is it a good thing?

[eDDe9]

I'm a male to you who asked and thanks.

 

[Inchoate]

Ego loss has been sticking with me for awhile. I find when I trip after experiencing egoloss, it's like I have to try and control it, and I have to hold on and make sure I get through it, and I end up getting nothing out of it. I feel like the only way to make sure I just get through it is to just wait it out. I've really tried just letting go, and embracing what I feel like when I did it a long time ago. But it scares the shit out of me, and I keep thinking "god, i'm back here again, this fear. just wait 4 more hours, and it's gone." even calm music doesn't help, it's the worst thing in the world.

I'd love to move this to another thread and continue to talk about it -- I have a friend the exact same way. He had a 'bad trip' the first time, and so now, even though he is open to it - he cannot the fear of the first time, he cannot let go, he can only try to cobtrol it, and wait it out, and he gets nothing out of it.

What can be done in this situation?

 

[chugs]

There is no such thing as ego death because in not wanting to desire you are still desiring. Ego is just a term, a label, with no tangible meaning. Your ego is always dead, or alive, its just a term.. the only thing that is, is what is. The things you feel when you experience this so called state are always there with you, you just don't see them.. Id rather refer to this as illumination rather then ego death as it is very easy to get lost in terms and language.

and

Its simple Zen philosophy, in achieving ego death you are wanting to end desire. Even in wanting a specific state of consciousness, you are still using you're ego. So ego is used to bring about ego death.

Ego doesn't have to have negative connotations. So again, the very process of wanting something, is you're ego, therefore you are "desiring not to desire". You're ego is always there, its you.

Becoming one with the universe is simply a process of alignment whereby you're ego stops thinking about itself and re-aligns itself with other elements of reality. But at the end of the day, its still YOU that wants to feel this way. So in the end, I believe there is nothing that "dies".

The truth of unity consciousness is always there, its just we cant see it. Timothy Leary had his head up his ass when he started bringing in the concept of "ego death" in relation to psychedelics because this creates a duality in a state that should be free of duality. Everything is, just is. It transcends concepts of language. In applying the concept of ego death, it creates a hierarchy involving the haves of the experience and the have nots...

I think endlesseulogy said it perfectly.

I personally think the common experience that people describe/claim as "ego death" is little more then a state your brain enters into where higher brain functions cease to operate in a normal manner.

A lot of the people here have indicated "ego death" is a moment where your free from your memories (which are a massive part of your identity). Could "Ego Death" simply be the point that some of your brain's higher functions cease operate, such as memory.

There is a great story about someone who one day woke up with absolutely no memory as to who he was. (Apparently its extremely rare). Consequently he became a new person, different to that of what his love's ones knew him as (he actually stopped loving his long term partner).

Memory is crucial to our identity, without it you are no longer you but someone else. So when your tripping balls, on multiple substances or powerful dissociatives (like Ketamine), which specifically designed to disable higher brain function could it just be possible that you are experiencing a slow descent into unconsciousness?

On a small tangent, I too have been coming to the conclusion that consciousness never ceases to exist. That our death will only change the reality in which our consciousness resides in.

I believe this because of the recent material i've found about how our brains/consciousness interfaces with the very fabric of our reality, that reality being so aptly described by quantum physics. This material explains examination of the electrons that reside within microtubules (small tubes inside neurons) shows that these electrons, quarks (and smaller) are operating on a quantum level, on the very fabric of our universe. Could this be the secret to consciousness that our brains are just the housing of a quantum computer?

There is another theory that the universe, and all information contained within it is is built on a crystalline like matrix (could memory and all thought be apart of this structure). I believe this was used to partly explain the recurrence and the incredible ability of mathematics to describe the universe (like PI).

We are marvels of physics, just as strange as a blackhole or a sun.

I have always wondered that if were to live in a reality after 'death' that how could we still be us without a memories which reside in our brain.

But back to ego death:

The only thing that burns in hell is the part of you that won't let go of your life: your memories, your attachments. They burn them all away, but they're not punishing you, they're freeing your soul. (Meister Eckhart)

 

[pseudononamouse]

Ego loss is good because when the ego is lost, it can be consciously reconstructed as it returns. I am happy with myself so I have never tried to drastically change myself during a trip, but I feel that it can happen. I hypothesize that this is why psychedelic psychotherapy is so effective.
Ego loss is also a humbling (in)experience.

I am aware that this thread is old but I do not think that really matters. I came across this thread from the first post in the Big and Dandy Ego Loss thread.

 

[tripz_two]

Because its liberating.

People are all up in "me" and "I". Ego loss is profound and leagues ahead of this silly notion that "you" are something seperate from the entirity.

I think its a profound experience.

 

[nearjat]

When you see that experience goes beyond the ups and downs of personal fulfillment and loss, you truly know in the deepest sense why one should love thy neighbor so to speak.

I speak with admitted bias based on my spiritual beliefs and experiences, but I believe that egoless existence is the "truth" and the "source" of everything. This doesn't necessarily mean that it would be best for everyone on earth to be completely stripped of an ego, at least not right now. I just think that getting a glimpse into this state can definitely give one a deeper understanding of what is really "there" and what is simply an illusion created by the mind. For many others and I, this can help one grow as a person.

In a way this is how I interpret the "End Times" stories from the bible and other holy books. When Jesus comes back (when our egos our stripped), those who are righteous and love God (those who are selfless and live for the Whole) will be taken to heaven (will accept the egoless state and experience bliss). Those who live against God, will be cast down to hell. (those who live an egoistic, selfish life will suffer as their precious ego is torn from them).

 

[10YR AA Gone]

When you see that experience goes beyond the ups and downs of personal fulfillment and loss, you truly know in the deepest sense why one should love thy neighbor so to speak.

I speak with admitted bias based on my spiritual beliefs and experiences, but I believe that egoless existence is the "truth" and the "source" of everything. This doesn't necessarily mean that it would be best for everyone on earth to be completely stripped of an ego, at least not right now. I just think that getting a glimpse into this state can definitely give one a deeper understanding of what is really "there" and what is simply an illusion created by the mind. For many others and I, this can help one grow as a person.

In a way this is how I interpret the "End Times" stories from the bible and other holy books. When Jesus comes back (when our egos our stripped), those who are righteous and love God (those who are selfless and live for the Whole) will be taken to heaven (will accept the egoless state and experience bliss). Those who live against God, will be cast down to hell. (those who live an egoistic, selfish life will suffer as their precious ego is torn from them).

good post. unfortunately i am unable to live in an egoless state and therefore enjoy non-suffering as the buddha and christ did.

 

[love_sex_desire]

Ego death is not annhilation.
It is emancipation.


You do not cease to exist.
The boundaries that define you cease to exist.


Having no boundaries, 'you' become nothing.
Yet 'nothing' is still apart of 'everything', and thus 'everything' remains.


The experience: There is no You.
The revelation: There is only you.


We are the Universe.

This sums up my interpretation of my experiences with ego loss. Ego-death is not an accurate term, as ego-death is not permanent, it is a temporary experience where one feels and understands the paradoxical truth that we are separate and we are one.

Our ego is essential for our every day survival. Biologically, humans have evolved with strong egos. At the same time we must also have a sense of community and togetherness. In the increasingly sub-compartmentalized, categorized and individualistic, self-serving society I was born within, ego loss can be a very useful tool to balance the ever increasing ego and ever decreasing sense of community in our globalized yet compartmentalized and dehumanized society.

In response to Bludda's quote:

"The experience: There is no You.
The revelation: There is only you."

When I experienced ego loss I felt united with the the universe. I felt my true self bursting through my ego and my mind expanded throughout the universe at a crescendoing rate. The faster my mind integrated the universe, the more ecstatic the joy of nirvana was, which literally brought me to my knees with my hands outstretched to the sky, in the pure, unfiltered and unconditioned ecstasy of "Mind at Large".

I realized there is no "I", and there is only "I". This paradox can be understood when considering the nature of infinity... now stick with me here:

You can not take a fraction out of infinity, therefore everything within infinity can not be defined as a percentage of infinity. If your "self" can not be defined as a percentage of infinity, it is therefore "nothing".

On the other hand...

You can not have infinity without every single entity within infinity, therefore without your "self" embedded within infinity, it would not be infinite. Therefore each "self" has infinite intrinsic value within infinity, and is "everything".

Because every separate thing within infinity has no percentage value, yet without every separate thing within infinity, there would be no infinity, our sense of our "selfs" as well as everything beyond our own identities can be considered both "nothing and "everything" simultaneously, when considering these things in the context of the infinite.

With temporary ego-death our individual, self-serving, outer core of our "self", which is considered the "ego", is dismantled leaving one in state where one becomes temporarily conscious of our inherent collective unconscious:

There is no you.
There is only you.
The true fundamental "you", our collective consciousness which unites all of "us", is the universe.

We are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively.

<The yin-yang sums up the perpetuation of existence. A paradoxically positive/negative feedback loop which allows time to perpetuate linearly in circles.>

 

[nearjat]

Very nice post sir/ma'am

 

[Listening]

When you see that experience goes beyond the ups and downs of personal fulfillment and loss, you truly know in the deepest sense why one should love thy neighbor so to speak.

I speak with admitted bias based on my spiritual beliefs and experiences, but I believe that egoless existence is the "truth" and the "source" of everything. This doesn't necessarily mean that it would be best for everyone on earth to be completely stripped of an ego, at least not right now. I just think that getting a glimpse into this state can definitely give one a deeper understanding of what is really "there" and what is simply an illusion created by the mind. For many others and I, this can help one grow as a person.

In a way this is how I interpret the "End Times" stories from the bible and other holy books. When Jesus comes back (when our egos our stripped), those who are righteous and love God (those who are selfless and live for the Whole) will be taken to heaven (will accept the egoless state and experience bliss). Those who live against God, will be cast down to hell. (those who live an egoistic, selfish life will suffer as their precious ego is torn from them).

I agree with pretty much all of that, (and I'm an atheist). The only thing I'd modify is that heaven is simply an ideal of us all living by love (egoless living). The "End Times" is not "coming for us to strip our egos and send us to heaven." Rather, we will create heaven on earth ourselves when we've evolved past a point where a critical mass of us (and therefore pretty much everybody after that point), will be living by love and we can finally and truly set all the old rules aside since they will no longer be needed.

 

[nearjat]

I agree with pretty much all of that, (and I'm an atheist). The only thing I'd modify is that heaven is simply an ideal of us all living by love (egoless living). The "End Times" is not "coming for us to strip our egos and send us to heaven." Rather, we will create heaven on earth ourselves when we've evolved past a point where a critical mass of us (and therefore pretty much everybody after that point), will be living by love and we can finally and truly set all the old rules aside since they will no longer be needed.

Yes that's also what I actually believe My post was just trying to stick to bible themes

 

[love_sex_desire]

Yes that's also what I actually believe My post was just trying to stick to bible themes

I like how you use biblical themes as a metaphor for our evolution through the dissolution of our egos. I find many aspects of religions very accurate when looked at metaphorically. Now if all bible thumpers would look at what the bible is saying as a metaphor rather than looking at the bible through blasphemous literal interpretation, I wouldn't be so anti-christian! Which I think is ironic, because by being anti-christian I believe I am upholding what Jesus would have wanted, as if he truly is the son of God, he would be rather upset at the things justified in his name. IMO current christianity is rather anti-Jesus Christ!

 

[nearjat]

I think jesus may have had a religious experience (ego death/loss), and I can imagine that he never wanted others to worship him or anything. Maybe he just wanted others to know that they can have that too, by saying they're all "children of God". He was raised in a culture surrounded by Abraham founded monotheistic religion, so the religious experience was interpreted differently than someone in India for example.

 

[jamaica0535]

Why would a human being want to lose their sense of I/me ?

It feels like you're dying. It's traumatic. Fuck ego death. Embrace who you are. I guess for some people it takes temporarily losing yourself to know yourself. That could be why it's good.

You just kind of have to experience it.

Its only traumatic if you try and fight it, accept it and come to terms with it. Surrender to the void.

I came to terms with my own mortality a long time ago, we all have to die at some point, and i am ok with that.

The only time i thought i had died i was surprisingly ok with it. Live your life to the fullest, and enjoy the time that you have because you never know when it might come to an end. Could be today, or it could be in 70 years, but the fact remains that the end has to come.

So many spend so much of their lives living in fear of death that they never really live. And then there are those of us who don't necessarily chase it, but we don't hide from it either. Its a great feeling to come back to reality after an ego death experience, that realization of "im not dead" and the desire to live your life in the best way possible.

The who coming to terms with my own mortality is one of the only things that remains out of my several years of depression. When you focus so much of your time contemplating these things you just kind of get used to the idea. Instead of killing myself, i found peace and understanding through psychedelics.

My experience with thinking i had died did teach me one thing, and that is that when my time does come for me to actually die i can go through it without fear.

 

[nearjat]

You just kind of have to experience it.

Its only traumatic if you try and fight it, accept it and come to terms with it. Surrender to the void.

I came to terms with my own mortality a long time ago, we all have to die at some point, and i am ok with that.

The only time i thought i had died i was surprisingly ok with it. Live your life to the fullest, and enjoy the time that you have because you never know when it might come to an end. Could be today, or it could be in 70 years, but the fact remains that the end has to come.

So many spend so much of their lives living in fear of death that they never really live. And then there are those of us who don't necessarily chase it, but we don't hide from it either. Its a great feeling to come back to reality after an ego death experience, that realization of "im not dead" and the desire to live your life in the best way possible.

The who coming to terms with my own mortality is one of the only things that remains out of my several years of depression. When you focus so much of your time contemplating these things you just kind of get used to the idea. Instead of killing myself, i found peace and understanding through psychedelics.

My experience with thinking i had died did teach me one thing, and that is that when my time does come for me to actually die i can go through it without fear.

+1

My experience with "going under: aka full anesthesia brought an an experience like this. But it's all a bit blurry so its impact wasn't great.

 

[jamaica0535]

That trip was also the reason i no longer do salvia....

It wasn't a bad trip by any means, if it didn't make me get up and move around while my mind is in another universe i would consider it again. But after stepping into a camp fire, i decided that would be the end of it.

 

[CallMeGod.]

Ego death can be either extremely negative for someone tripping or extremely positive. I've found that it really allows me to examine my life without being self-interested. However it can be scary, as your ego has this image of yourself that it tricks your mind into believing that it truly is YOU. To see this image shattered of what you thought you once were, can be extremely scary, but can be the catalyst for a lot of change in your life.

Psychedelics are a beautiful thing, that you can truly learn a lot from. Ego Death can be very scary, but a lot of reality is pretty damn scary as well

 

[DwayneHoover]

Ego death is not annhilation.
It is emancipation.


You do not cease to exist.
The boundaries that define you cease to exist.


Having no boundaries, 'you' become nothing.
Yet 'nothing' is still apart of 'everything', and thus 'everything' remains.


The experience: There is no You.
The revelation: There is only you.


We are the Universe.

Perfect, thanks!

 

[shishigami]

Because when I come back from it I appreciate all the little things in my life that make it worth living.

 

[Lumini]

I appreciate it because it helps me to be more content with how I am portrayed to other people. I become much happier with who I am.