Mental Health Eating disorders support thread v.2

[suessmayr]

Can I ask a general question about anorexia? My understanding of it is very limited.

How do people starve themselves so thoroughly without, well, doing themselves real harm? If I don't eat for 8 hours my mind stops working and I become depressed and anxious; how the fuck do people do this? I think I understand the 'why'.

I am not trying to be insensitive, merely to inform myself.

 

[n3ophy7e]

Well suess, firstly, we encourage all genuinely inquisitive queries in this thread because it is good for the general communal awareness of eating disorders for people to know the FACTS.

To answer your question, in actual fact people who starve themselves of nutrients ARE doing themselves harm, great harm. Especially if they continue to starve their bodies for prolonged periods of time. When the body is deprived of basic nutrients for extended periods of time, immense pressure is placed on the body's vital organs purely to survive. How can the heart keep pumping and the kidneys keep functioning and muscles keep moving when there is literally no energy provided to them??

Were you meaning to ask how can people do it from a psychological perspective??

There are a few theories kicking about. Serotonin has a big role to play in appetite, and if someone is depressed via abnormality in serotonin levels, it is highly likely that their appetite will be adversely affected as well.

However, depressed people can also experience an INCREASE in appetite (i.e. "comfort eating"). So clearly, like most things, it varies largely.

For someone with true anorexia nervosa, my personal theory is that as the body begins to starve of nutrients and feel that pain of hunger that healthy people like you feel, neurochemicals are released, possibly endorphins, or adrenaline, or dopamine, or a combination of different neurotransmittors. So the brain may actually become addicted to hunger pains. I say this because whenever I've gone through phases of anorexia, when I am literally feeling starving, I can feel quite high and exhilirated and it can be a very encouraging feeling. Endorphins must be involved somehow.
In addition to this, we get positive feedback from things like our clothes fitting less and less (i.e. getting more loose and baggy), people commenting on how thin we look, that feeling of listlessness/light-headedness/giddiness etc etc.

As you can see, it is something which is extraordinarily complex and I'm sure even the most up-to-date psychiatrists in the field don't fully understand the intricate mechanisms of anorexia nervosa.

 

[suessmayr]

So you think that people actually become favourably disposed to the hungry state? Is that like sadism or something? Or self-harm? I suppose I do understand the last.

I became intensely intrigued last time I was in a psych hospital because my unit was nearby the eating-disorder one. All their patients had to come down together and eat together and I got such a sinking feeling in my stomach seeing these girls, what they had done to themselves.

Surely a person so conspicuously starved is operating at like 50% of their cognitive capacity?

S

 

[n3ophy7e]

So you think that people actually become favourably disposed to the hungry state? Is that like sadism or something? Or self-harm? I suppose I do understand the last.

Well, you just answered your own question right there.
Sadism?? No.
Self harm?? Yes.
How does self-harm work?
When we feel pain, endorphins are released which causes a flush of the feeling of relief in the brain. Endorphins act on similar receptors in the brain that opiates do, so there is a very high potential for addiction, despite the fact that these chemicals are completely natural and exist within our brains to begin with.

Surely a person so conspicuously starved is operating at like 50% of their cognitive capacity?

Yes, a person who is starved of nutrients will suffer significant detriment to their cognitive functioning.
However, if a person has become so compulsively obsessed by their physical appearance, do you honestly think that they are going to be concerned by their cognitive capacity?

 

[suessmayr]

I guess not.

And I understand self-harm very well, I've just never thought of it in terms of starvation. It all sounds very complex.

How do you even begin to treat something like this? Because, even if drugs stimulate the appetite, isn't the real issue the way people feel about their eating?

S

 

[n3ophy7e]

The real issue is even deeper than purely about how someone feels about the act of eating.

It is about how they feel about their body image, how they feel they are seen and perceived by others (which is mostly distorted). It is about self-worth and insecurities.

How do you begin to treat it? Most of the time it's not even about food or weight or appearance at all. You really need to delve right deep down in the person's history of things that created their insecurities in the first place.

It is very very complex.

 

[suessmayr]

My deepest sympathies go out to anyone afflicted by this terrible condition.

And, given that a distorted understanding of peoples' attitudes plays as you say at least some part in the illness, I can only relate what my feelings were, as an outside observer, upon seeing these girls I spoke about at the hospital: not pity, not disgust, just confusion. It was like, why have these beautiful young people done this to themselves? And sadness.

S

 

[Jabberwocky]

How do people starve themselves so thoroughly without, well, doing themselves real harm? If I don't eat for 8 hours my mind stops working and I become depressed and anxious; how the fuck do people do this? I think I understand the 'why'.

.

in a bit of a rush, but to show how personal these things are, i'd like to give a completely opposite reason to n3os (totally valid) reason why some people are able to starve themselves like this.

in situations of immense stress, your appetite is effected, as n3o said. mine can disappear completely. as soon as i'm stressed i'm not hungry. depending on the level of stress, my brain can make it almost impossible to eat. food makes me feel sick. i can make myself feel full by thinking of eating. its the pain of eating that stops me.

so, my question would be the converse. how can you eat when you feel full? i've still not 100% worked it out.

obviously after a short while the starvation effects your brain, releases endorphins etc etc and you have forgotten how to eat normally, can't believe you need to eat more than the measly amount you do, and in my case start to focus on my weight and body because its so confusing. i don't feel hungry so i have to lose weight to prove to myself i'm not going insane by thinking i'm starving, but to lose weight i have to starve myself even more, because in my head i'm eating enough......

and it does cause great harm a psychological distress. by the time i was admitted to hospital i was frequently blacking out, fecally incontinent, had skin so dry it was almost scaly, all of my bones creaked painfully each time i moved. and i had a high bmi for an anorexic admitted to IP. and i loved each of those symptoms because they proved my disorder, they proved i wasn't insane. otherwise, though, i was completely numb. my legs gave out at the top of a massive stone staircase with a new fracture and i didn't feel a thing. the numbness is emotional too, not always, but often. nothing unrelated to your disorder can upset you anymore. you are safe. safe but dying.

when i get home i'll post a pic i took of the supplements and general meds i was scripted at the time. its quite scary given the majority of it is for one pharmacy visit.

 

[Ixchellian]

Asclepius- I actually hate feeling like this.... waking up every morning and having an energy level like I'd just worked 8hrs..... rather than having slept 8hrs.

Really leaning towards it being a seratonin issue..... but stress absolutely doesn't help. And from years of habit, I got used to eating while standing, in a hurry, and at odd times.
Being homeless/unemployed/etc, and being in the Army does have at least one parallel.... when food comes, it gets eaten, fast, and wherever possible.

 

[n3ophy7e]

in situations of immense stress, your appetite is effected, as n3o said. mine can disappear completely. as soon as i'm stressed i'm not hungry. depending on the level of stress, my brain can make it almost impossible to eat. food makes me feel sick. i can make myself feel full by thinking of eating. its the pain of eating that stops me.

so, my question would be the converse. how can you eat when you feel full?

Definitely!! Thank you for providing that alternative explanation hun, it just goes to prove how complex anorexia is, and how it is different for everyone.

Also, thank you for sharing your experiences with anorexia. It is something that is incredibly personal and it takes courage to open up about it

 

[junkymandan]

signs your s/o has a eating disorder

says she is on a no sugar no flour diet

sister was in bsu due to it and she will never be like her

says she has a "control" issue or ten

is controlling
to a point of no return

ultimatums are her enemy

never had a drug or drink ever

tells me drugs r bad

i give a 5mg vic due to her pms

and....6 months later she is on h meth coke oxy and self injures for pills

im a addict she is only physically hooked
never admits a problem

parents/fam say i lie about it

she blames me for it all due to her mentioning said control issue

went to detox not rehab

ptsd is my new friend

 

[booyaa]

does naltrexone/naloxone in combination with fluoxetine actually works for the Binge Eating Disorder?
Anybody tried that?

p.s. sorry if it's the wrong thread

 

[Rifkala]

i'm the closest i've ever been to realistically stating that i have beat my eating disorder. i'm somewhat heavy again - resting at five foot three, weighing in at 160lbs - but i have this overall sense of self satisfaction, confidence, and contentment that one can only find intrinsically. i have been trying to improve who i am as a person, not as a physical mass. i can enjoy food (my one true love, passion, and addiction) for the first time in as long as i can remember, with virtually no remorse.

all i have to do for this is avoid pictures and mirrors. because when i see those i know the actual truth: for the first time in 4 years i've allowed myself to be fat. i'm size twelve again, creeping back towards the size 16 i once was, walking further away from the 140 i loved so much. and, although i'm for the most part happy, i find myself naked in the shower counting stretch marks, or perceived protrusions, and loathing myself.

part of this stems from my reluctance to go the gym again. i have not worked out in a regular fashion for almost a year. essentially, i barred myself from fitness when i truly decided i was time to abandon my exercise driven bulimia. now that i'm at the point where my mind isn't constantly on my body or the food i'm putting in it, how can i integrate exercise healthfully back into my life? i only want to firm up a little bit - i like my weight, for the most part, and just want to get rid of the jiggle - but i know myself, and i know how easy it is to slip back into bad habits. and advice on how to restart my relationship with fitness?

 

[n3ophy7e]

^^ Hun it is so great to hear that you're doing better!! I am really happy for you and I sincerely hope that you can continue to be comfortable with your body and love yourself even more each day

i like my weight, for the most part, and just want to get rid of the jiggle - but i know myself, and i know how easy it is to slip back into bad habits. and advice on how to restart my relationship with fitness?

Yeah it can be really tricky, and like you said you have to be really careful that you don't fall back in to the bad over-exercising habits again (I have done that many times). I do have one suggestion though, which personally helped me immensely to regain a healthy attitiude towards exercise and nutrition. I trained for and competed in a half-marathon last year. It's something which is a medium to long-term goal, and the good part is that while you are doing a tonne of exercise and expending a LOT of energy, there is absolutely NO WAY that you can train successfully without eating properly. You feel amazing when you're achieving such long distances of running, and you feel even more amazing when you have sufficient fuel (i.e. healthy food) in your body to do it.

You could also do a mini-triathlon, a distance such as 500m swim/20km cycle/5km run, which I have also done. Such a distance is tough but very achievable for a novice. But again, you need to eat right in order to train properly.

Do you think this might be a realistic and helpful goal for you to set for yourself?? If you are interested, please PM me as I can help you out with a training plan and advice and stuff.

does naltrexone/naloxone in combination with fluoxetine actually works for the Binge Eating Disorder?
Anybody tried that?

p.s. sorry if it's the wrong thread

To be honest I have not heard of that combination of meds to treat Binge Eating Disorder. But it sounds interesting and when I get a spare moment I am going to see if I can find any official information on that. Where did you hear about using those two drugs for BED?




How is everyone else doing in here?? I hope you're all okay and treating yourselves with the love and respect you all deserve. Much love

 

[DrinksWithEvil]

do i have a ED?
Ive always been skinny, lowest ive been was 104 pounds when i was about 17-18. When i meet a girl i like i cant eat for shit. I get really anxious and stressed. So i avoid meeting girls because i dont want to lose weight. right now i am 5'6 and weigh probably 126. The highest ive weighed was 135. I think stress is my biggest reason for losing weight. Maybe its just an anxiety/stress thing.

 

[n3ophy7e]

No I don't think you have an eating disorder (this is good news!! ). I think you just have a very fast metabolism and anxiety issues. Have you ever seen a psychologist or a doctor about your anxiety?

 

[Ixchellian]

do i have a ED?
Ive always been skinny, lowest ive been was 104 pounds when i was about 17-18. When i meet a girl i like i cant eat for shit. I get really anxious and stressed. So i avoid meeting girls because i dont want to lose weight. right now i am 5'6 and weigh probably 126. The highest ive weighed was 135. I think stress is my biggest reason for losing weight. Maybe its just an anxiety/stress thing.

I'm curious..... do you often feel hungry & *want* to eat, but your stomach keeps you from doing so, for one reason or another?
Being stressed does some pretty wack things to our digestive tracts sometimes. I know I can't eat when things get uncomfortable or hectic.

 

[belarki]

Oh this thread has popped up again, how is everyone? Hopefully well and healthy?

I'm slipping... losing weight and loving it, I'm messed up You know when people comment on you looking too thin, needing to eat more etc and it only acts as a reaffirmation of your eating habits instead? Counter productive but I don't think anyone without experience with an ED realises this. Oh well, I'm still at a healthy weight now and still eating: just had some toast with feta, tomato, cracked pepper and olive oil; a decade ago that would have been 2 days' food and i wouldn't have been caught dead adding olive oil...

I can attest to n3o's thoughts above though. Exercise is amazing at keeping you eating regularly and healthily and removing some of the guilt from it.

 

[n3ophy7e]

losing weight and loving it,

Eeeep, sorry to hear that mate. I am the complete opposite at the moment. I am gaining weight and hating it, I am so fat and ugly I want to die. For the last few weeks I have been eating like there is no tomorrow (comfort eating). I feel disgusting, I look even worse, yet I can't stop eating. At least this week I'm eating healthy stuff like salads and fruit and stuff but I've just been living in carb-city for the last 2 weeks. Awful

Oh well.....so the cycle continues.

 

[OverDone]

we love you, n3o