Do not mess with 25i, my roomate tried to kill me last night

[tsohnboasms]

My best wishes are with you dude I have been through the same shit a few times. It's awful dealing with the emergency services when you're tripping out like that. (my experience: http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/694478-UK-25I-NBOME-powder-warning?highlight=nbome+warning)

This is definitely something that has cropped up more with the nBOMEs than with any other psychedelics though. My friend went through a very similar thing.. running around outside screaming with no shoes on, punching car windscreens and attacking me, shouting incoherently about death and clearly being stuck in loops. As much as I personally like 25i, I have seen quite a few people go wrong on it and I think there are quite a few factors at play. It seems like there is a fine line for everybody in terms of dosage and I guess every person is different when it comes to overdosing, but like I said I know quite a few people who have been thrown over the edge by the stuff. I think it's mainly to do with 25i being sold as LSD or other substances and then people overdosing.

Edit:

Also kind of offended here reading some of the comments. People saying that 'some people just can't handle their shit'. It is sometimes due to that, but it is also sometimes due to massive overdoses of incredibly strong and loopy drugs like 25i. THIS sounds like a 25i overdose to me and I have seen several. I too am one of those who have taken probably more than 5mg of this substance (intranasally too) but I am saying that different people can handle different amounts. I think most people would be fine at the 500ug level and this is why it's imperative that tabs are labelled and that powders are avoided when it comes to 25i or any other nbome for that matter.

 

[juno nightmare]

this nbome shit seems to have a very high incidence of causing psychosis. i havent tried it but i wish it would have never hit the market so hard. shit if you go onto some of he darkweb suppliers there is A FUCK TON of this stuff just waiting to cause flipouts and arrests and deaths. its sad really. if lsd were legal almost none of this kind of shit would be going down.

 

['medicine cabinet']

Ive seen a few places with al-lad and lsz for sale right next to nbomes, if you want as much of a true lsd experience why wouldnt you pay a little extra and get lsd analogs? Ive done 25c twice and both times the blotters were around 800mcg (not sure if they were complexed) but it was ok, not some amazing trip full of introspection and deep thought, was kind of phony if that makes sense...id love to try al lad, i might order a few tabs. Have seen a site that offers 3 tabs for a good price. I think they are 150mcg? The tikhal report for 150mcg sounds awesome. I wonder what a brain scan of shulgin looks like. All those trials probably had some lingering effect.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Wow that is so messed up

I am tripping on DXM at the moment.

Makes me glad to be me @_@

 

[Frydea]

So epic haha I know a guy who did the same thing took some "acid" (who knows it could have been real LSD but I doubt it) and best the shit out of all his homies.

 

[Ire206]

Stay away from this drug. 2 tabs did that to him.

Its not the drug, its your friend. If he did all of that, he must have had those thoughts somewhere in his mind before taking it. Also, you didn't specify the dosage per tab, do you even know how many micrograms were on each blotter? It could be 500ug a blotter, or up to 2mg. IMO weed was an incredibly bad idea, as its common knowledge that it has a synergistic effect on psychedelics.

 

[pmoseman]

Why do the thoughts need to be there before you take the drug?

 

[Jabberwocky]

literally just the name "devils acid" spells disaster waiting to happen

this was literally horrifying to read... thank god you made it out alive....

this is a psychedelic definitely ticked off the list.

however if i think back to a couple of days ago with my experience on 4-ho-met, literally, if someone had of disturbed me while being on that trip i would have gone batshit ape crazy.... because things do get a little bit much and someone "interfering" with it can really make it a terrible experience. i had to let go of myself and accept the drug was in control of me at the point where i thought i was quite literally losing it - i was talking to myself out loud all sorts of weird shit... i don't know how i would of reacted if a person had of been in the room with me though. you kind of go beyond the threshold of sanity and just lose it.... it's a terrifying concept but at the same time its mesmerising, I'm sure its a trip he'll never forget - and actually the darkest trips seem to hold the most secrets of some kind.... i knew i was in no physical danger while i was tripping, body wise, but my mind was quite literally ready to snap at the slightest disturbance.... just need to be really cautious with these things, a milligram, hell a microgram can be the difference between going ape shit or being able to contain yourself

 

[Exosphere]

literally just the name "devils acid" spells disaster waiting to happen

And the most amusing part is he knowingly took something he referred to as "Devil's Acid", to me it's a stop and think alert. But then again, the guy must've had some mental issues since he went completely sideways.

 

[pmoseman]

Which mental health issue do you think he had?

 

[Jabberwocky]

And the most amusing part is he knowingly took something he referred to as "Devil's Acid", to me it's a stop and think alert. But then again, the guy must've had some mental issues since he went completely sideways.

i dunno sometimes i think even like flashing lights warning lights everything wouldn't stop me i don't know what kind of headspace he was in....

well we never heard back it might have been a drug induced mental condition or something maybe he ended up in jail

maybe schizophrenia if i had to put a guess on it paranoid type

 

[pmoseman]

Some people who abuse drugs show symptoms similar to those of schizophrenia. Therefore, people with schizophrenia may be mistaken for people who are affected by drugs.

Drug abuse may increase the risk of violence but schizophrenics are not usually violent.

A combination of factors can predict schizophrenia in up to 80 percent of youth who are at high risk of developing the illness. These factors include isolating oneself and withdrawing from others, an increase in unusual thoughts and suspicions, and a family history of psychosis.

http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/schizophrenia/index.shtml

 

[Jabberwocky]

However, some symptoms are associated with violence, such as delusions of persecution. Substance abuse may also increase the chance a person will become violent

Thought disorders are unusual or dysfunctional ways of thinking. One form of thought disorder is called "disorganized thinking." This is when a person has trouble organizing his or her thoughts or connecting them logically.

also:


-Unpredictable or inappropriate emotional responses
-Behaviors that appear bizarre and have no purpose
-Lack of inhibition and impulse control

last speaks loudest to me.

• A study of 961 young adults in New Zealand reported that individuals with schizophrenia and associated disorders were two-and-one-half times more likely than controls to have been violent in the past year. If the person was also a substance abuser, the incidence of violent behavior was even higher.
Arseneault L, Moffitt TE, Caspi A et. al. Mental disorders and violence in a total birth cohort. Archives of General Psychiatry 2000;57:979–986.

some studies dug up related to psychosis now however, so perhaps it may have been a manic psychotic episode brought on by drug use, however i could be wrong again:

THE ASSOCIATION BETWEEN SERIOUS MENTAL ILLNESS AND ACTS OF VIOLENCE
• A meta-analysis of 204 studies of psychosis as a risk factor for violence reported that “compared with individuals with no mental disorders, people with psychosis seem to be at a substantially elevated risk for violence.” Psychosis “was significantly associated with a 49%–68% increase in the odds of violence.”
Douglas KS, Guy LS, Hart SD. Psychosis as a risk factor for violence to others: a meta-analysis. Psychological Bulletin 2009;135:679–706.

• A review of 22 studies published between 1990 and 2004 “concluded that major mental disorders, per se, especially schizophrenia, even without alcohol or drug abuse, are indeed associated with higher risks for interpersonal violence.” Major mental disorders were said to account for between 5 and 15 percent of community violence.
Joyal CC, Dubreucq J-L, Gendron C et al. Major mental disorders and violence: a critical update. Current Psychiatry Reviews 2007;3:33–50.

 

[pmoseman]

The odds of someone being schizophrenic though are 1% and if they would account for 3% of violent acts, that still makes it unlikely.

 

[steve022]

I wrote this all last night before I went to bed. Beyond craziest night of my life. Be careful with this stuff

It all started when he took two tabs of what my friend called "Devil's Acid" at 815. Everything was cool and going according to plan when he started having visuals around 9ish. He said he felt like it would be a strong trip. I decided I wanted to dose too, and took 1 tab at 1010. Things started to go crazy really fast.
We started talking crazy things about connections between thoughts and realities. He said he kept being stuck in loops over and over again. I told him stuff to think about. We went and smoked a little weed to mellow out. Then he got back inside and jumped up and started pouring cinnamon on himself. I thought this would be the highlight of an interesting night... Then he got weird.
He went to the bathroom. Came back and said "Oops, guess i pissed myself" then he went and completely flipped a coffee table. There were glass inserts, so he broke one and started playing with the glass. He then started throwing it around, first at the wall laughing, it made a hole. The next second he went and pulled me down and started wailing on me a little bit. I was on the ground, then he switched his focus and started punching the wall hard, really fast. Then he said "Owe that hurt; I broke my hand" Monotone the whole time
He's 20, 6'1 and built, super athletic white boy
He sat back on the couch for a while, then got violent. He said to my roomate on the couch "What if I just kill you right now" as he had a shard in his hand. He then tried to throw a sharp piece of glass at him. It bounced off his chin and cut his neck. No major bleeding. He then yelled for me. He ran and barricaded himself in his room... leaving me tripping alone with him. This is around 11:40. He then tried to run outside. I coaxed him back him, then he stripped butt naked and ran out again. He ran out yelling then he straight jumped and smashed some dude's windshield. I had my phone unlocked freaking out who to call. I finally called the cops as he hit me several times in the face as I'm backing away Saying "I'm stronger then you, what if I kill you??" I ran for my life as he tracked behind. Called 911 several times until 911 showed up eventually with a firetruck that he attacked. They blasted a horn and he ran away. I ran to the firetruck and they told me he just ran off into traffic and to just wait it out at my place.
I walk back and see that he smashed up 2 cars, attacked a homeless, attacked me several times. And did property damage to someone's porch. All while naked.
The entire time he was mumbling "What if I live in the moment", "So we should just kill ourselves?", and "If there's no consequences it doesn't matter".
It was like he forgot actions had consequences. And he just acted on every crazy impulse.
I heard much later on by my neighbors that he ran into traffic. A cop responded and pepper sprayed him. He had this maniacal insane laugh after he would do something. He also tried punching the walls a lot. There's fist marks where he dented. He got pepper sprayed then he punched a cop. He then got slammed on the ground by another cop. He probably in the hospital right now.
He dosed at 815, went insane around 1130, tried to kill both of us around 1145. It's 345 now, Right after i literally thought it could not get more fucked then this. So me and my roommate had this odd ease that we just need to bask in this moment until the cops come back, because he could not get any more fucked than this. This is like one of the urban legends you hear about with some guy on pcp taking 40 bullets to put down naked.
Stay away from this drug. 2 tabs did that to him. DO not TAKE. FLUSH it if you have it. It's nothing but insanity. The guy before us got it from someone who gave away 7 tabs because he had a bad trip on 4 and was so disgusted he never even wanted to see it again, so he wouldn't sell it.
I'm still under the influence of this drug plus a fuckton of andrenaline. We're college kids, we don't need this shit. I didn't choose it but it does happen. He have a huge mess to clean up now.
Fuck this insanity

Tl;dr friend took 25i, went apeshit and got himself arrested

What the hell could have caused this?

EDIT: A couple people asked me for proof. I didn't take any pictures at the time, but here's a couple pics of the damage that hasn't been fixed yet

Here's the windshield he smashed of a random car in the street

Here's the hole in the dry wall where he threw the glass shard

Although anyone could have a bad trip, think their never coming down, get delusional, etc. usually when this sort of maniacal violence happens the person was already nuts. Psychedelics are totally capable of fucking with anybody's head and yeah people can do some crazy stuff while on them sometimes, they usually do not induce violence unless somebody is already crazy. One could subjectively "go insane" while on psychs, get delusional, and just be generally crazy as hell, violence is not typical. If he became this much of a raging maniac under the influence of 25i, I think he shouldn't do psychs at least not until he gets whatever issues he had sorted out.

 

[steve022]

However, some symptoms are associated with violence, such as delusions of persecution. Substance abuse may also increase the chance a person will become violent

Thought disorders are unusual or dysfunctional ways of thinking. One form of thought disorder is called "disorganized thinking." This is when a person has trouble organizing his or her thoughts or connecting them logically.

also:


-Unpredictable or inappropriate emotional responses
-Behaviors that appear bizarre and have no purpose
-Lack of inhibition and impulse control

last speaks loudest to me.

• A study of 961 young adults in New Zealand reported that individuals with schizophrenia and associated disorders were two-and-one-half times more likely than controls to have been violent in the past year. If the person was also a substance abuser, the incidence of violent behavior was even higher.
Arseneault L, Moffitt TE, Caspi A et. al. Mental disorders and violence in a total birth cohort. Archives of General Psychiatry 2000;57:979–986.

some studies dug up related to psychosis now however, so perhaps it may have been a manic psychotic episode brought on by drug use, however i could be wrong again:

THE ASSOCIATION BETWEEN SERIOUS MENTAL ILLNESS AND ACTS OF VIOLENCE
• A meta-analysis of 204 studies of psychosis as a risk factor for violence reported that “compared with individuals with no mental disorders, people with psychosis seem to be at a substantially elevated risk for violence.” Psychosis “was significantly associated with a 49%–68% increase in the odds of violence.”
Douglas KS, Guy LS, Hart SD. Psychosis as a risk factor for violence to others: a meta-analysis. Psychological Bulletin 2009;135:679–706.

• A review of 22 studies published between 1990 and 2004 “concluded that major mental disorders, per se, especially schizophrenia, even without alcohol or drug abuse, are indeed associated with higher risks for interpersonal violence.” Major mental disorders were said to account for between 5 and 15 percent of community violence.
Joyal CC, Dubreucq J-L, Gendron C et al. Major mental disorders and violence: a critical update. Current Psychiatry Reviews 2007;3:33–50.

He probably was not schizophrenic. The guy had a severe psychotic episode, obviously, but he was tripping so it's entirely different. He probably just is one of those people who shouldn't trip because they have some major issues going on. Schizophrenics aren't usually violent in that type of manner anyways.

 

[pmoseman]

I do not know what source you are using for this but a cardinal effect of psychedelics is causing a person to behave out of character.

 

[steve022]

I'd need evidence of this solipsis - I've taken some incredible doses and never remotely felt violent. Neither has anyone I've ever known. Similarly I've been drunk and never been violent.

To illustrate: alcohol tends to cause people to throw up and/or fall asleep before they ever get to a delirium state sort of point, but I'm pretty sure that if you take it far enough you can have a 'blackout' in which behavior can turn pretty primal.

I've never really bought into the idea "the alcohol made me do it". You become violent because you WANT to be violent and the alcohol frees your inhibitions. If you don't want to become violent on alcohol then you don't become violent. There's always a pretty strong link between the people who are violent on alcohol and the people who are violent anyway. You don't tend to get the Dali Lama having 3 pints and attempting to murder somebody.

It can be interpreted as another way of saying that extreme episodes don't usually tend to happen in people who are mentally very well

I'm sure you can have extreme episodes - I'm just questioning whether those episodes would involve homicidal violence. There's a big difference between having an extreme episode and becoming psychotically violent.

As I'm sure you know, each trip is different, so hypothetically a completely sane person (if there is such a thing) could go insane and become violent while they are tripping.