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Are you afraid of death or have you made your peace?

Pibolar said:
Yeah I get what you're saying here. Would you say that the energy/matter that we are always losing returns to our environment, or other organisms in our environment? Just as we are constantly taking in energy/mass from our environment. Is there any scientific evidence that can answer this question? I'm genuinely interested and enjoy reading through these thoughts on the subject. Plus, it seems the conversation has taken a scientific turn, and gives me a chance to learn new stuff.
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If we talk about energy balance between an organism and its environment, then an easy way to look at it is the following. There are many forms of energy: potential, kinetic, chemical etc. We mostly take in energy in the form of chemical bonds (a la sugar and fats, which on oxidation release a lot of chemical/heat energy). We also ingest other things like water, minerals and so on, which mainly help keep the chemical machine working to turn its environment into "useful" energy. Most of the energy we give out is thermal (our body is warmer than its surroundings, mechanical motion of the body). When an organism dies, it's unable to effectively "extract" energy from its surroundings to produce something we call life, so it slowly gives out all the energy it has stored (first it cools down to ambient temperatures, then it starts decomposing, which is for the most part an energy-releasing process, much like eating for us) until it basically becomes its environment.
 
Cosmic Trigger said:
Google is your friend.
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Oh I'm aware. I use it religiously, but tend to get caught up researching whatever I am obsessed with/interested in ATM. And this sort science is usually not that. Although certain scientific studies pique my interest, like studies on human behavior and personality, I love reading about that stuff. So I often overlook physical science.

belligerent drunk said:
If we talk about energy balance between an organism and its environment, then an easy way to look at it is the following. There are many forms of energy: potential, kinetic, chemical etc. We mostly take in energy in the form of chemical bonds (a la sugar and fats, which on oxidation release a lot of chemical/heat energy). We also ingest other things like water, minerals and so on, which mainly help keep the chemical machine working to turn its environment into "useful" energy. Most of the energy we give out is thermal (our body is warmer than its surroundings, mechanical motion of the body). When an organism dies, it's unable to effectively "extract" energy from its surroundings to produce something we call life, so it slowly gives out all the energy it has stored (first it cools down to ambient temperatures, then it starts decomposing, which is for the most part an energy-releasing process, much like eating for us) until it basically becomes its environment.
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Alright sweet. I remember learning about the different forms of energy in high school, I really did not pay attention in that class though, haha. Although, in physical science we never touched on the subject of death, and it's relation to energy and all that.
 
we never touched on the subject of death, and it's relation to energy and all that.
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Well that will take you way down the rabbit hole as it pertains directly imo to the OP and our willingness and ability to understand reality.
 
Hey all. This is a really interesting thread. I'm new here, so please be gentle. :)

I feel as though I've chased death since I was fourteen years old and I'm turning thirty-six next month. I've finally found some measure of contentment. But my early life was filled with chaos, extremism, dichotomies in terms of thoughts and behaviors, etc. It's interesting: the (I think clinical) psychologist Stanislaw Grof is a pretty progressive man. He has done a lot of psychotherapeutic work incorporating psychedelics, specifically LSD (that I'm aware of). He did a study that led 50 participants on LSD to process, and every single person ended up processing their discomfort with/fear of death. This was part of a book I was reading that I never ended up finishing and it was quite some time ago as well. But I found it at the time to be moving, in a sense, and also pretty heavy.

I am not afraid of death or of no longer being myself. My near death experiences have taught me that there is no use in fearing what is inevitable. Although I've lived hard and hurt a lot during my life, I have very few intrinsic regrets. Every experience I've had, as brutal and as lovely as they could be, has taught me something or other, and I feel like when I finally get to the point where my body casts itself off, I'll want to be as open and receptive to that last taste of individual consciousness.

Like it has been mentioned before, energy can neither be created nor destroyed. Like JessFR, I have the feeling that my energy/soul/spirit/what have you (I like spirit, but I mean it in an Annie Dillard sense rather than any kind of religious rhetoric, that stuff just isn't my cup of tea) will continue to be/exist, though my individual consciousness will dissolve into the ether from whence it came.

My experiences with psychedelics has shown me that not only is there human consciousness and this universe, but there are infinite consciousnesses and infinite worlds that fold into and onto one another. I feel like it is pure egotism to think that human consciousness is the sole consciousness. Is there a collective consciousness ala Jung? I am unsure. But having multiple and consistent OBEs with Salvia, feeling my consciousness being blasted through universe after universe has been incredibly powerful. I am determined to be with my consciousness in as many forms/ways/methods as possible while I have it. You may think at this point that I've fried my brain with drugs and perhaps I have. But I also think that I am able to reason fairly cogently and have finally found a way to be safe and content in my days.

I think of life, now, as any I do of any creative process: the value is in the process, of wringing out every last drop of agony and ecstasy and uncertainty inherent in creating anything, whether writing a book or painting or what have you, rather than the end result. If I think to myself, as I did for many years, that if I do this or that hard enough then I'll end up being a good person (which is subjective, I realize), then I'm not really being present for what is happening to and within me at that moment. The point is to be here for what IS here, and not to project myself into a possibility or a hope or an uncertainty. I don't mean to sound like an asshole or anything, this is just my perspective.

Anyway, I find immense value in interacting with nature, reading all manner of things, drinking tea. I love the things I love, regardless of how inconsequential they might be, or random and unreliable. These are my morning thoughts. I'm open to feedback and constructive criticism! Please don't be needlessly mean. And yes, the kratom is fantastic! :)
(Current strain: Green Malay)
 
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Your experience and the conclusions you've drawn from them resonate with me. I also believe that whatever we came from, we return to--that what we call life is only a small sliver of what life is and that death is a transformation of atoms. That our consciousness is housed in these brief incarnations of self, and all those selves are part of a species which in itself will be brief in geologic time, makes for a weighty mental burden for humans and it is no wonder that as a species we have come up with all sorts of myth to comfort ourselves. Psychedelics may introduce you to a sense of existing outside of small human consciousness but do they really help alleviate the fear of death when death is imminent? I think it is easy to develop philosophical understandings of death from many spiritual experiences--whether they are drug fueled or not--and we may then be deluded into thinking we no longer harbor any fear of death. I've been around too much death to believe it, though. What I am trying to say is that it is easier to sit in the comfortable armchair of youth, or relative good health or anywhere else in life where death remains some future abstraction and claim an ease with it. I think rationally we all accept death as a part of life, it's emotionally that we struggle with understandable conflicts. When people are actually faced with a death slow enough to imagine it, acceptance may eventually come, but fear is also a natural part of the process. Near death experiences are generally from quick events (accidents, ODs, surgical complications,violence, etc) so they happen in a chaotic times; dying of disease or old age is a different experience.

One thing I've been thinking about lately is how we might confuse fear of living with fear of dying. Maybe we are not really afraid to die--we are just so afraid that our lives will be forgotten, that we ourselves will be meaningless, etc. This is all fear of living not dying. What if what we need to evolve as a species is not to exorcise our fear of death but to find acceptance for our temporary and ultimately insignificant lives? Every person born strives to be seen, to be heard, to be accepted, to be known by others. This drive fuels everything from great art to the worst misuses of power to addiction to wealth and fame and the list goes on. What if we accepted that we are unknowable and invisible on one level and we treated that as something sacred rather than a thirst that cannot be quenched?
 
Those are really great, deep thoughts to ponder. I wonder if finding solace in anonymity and obscurity is considered to be an abnormality? I was afraid of living for many years, in an intrinsic way. I sought choas and frenzy with drugs that hurt me and people that damaged me and I attempted suicide more than once. When I was younger, it was more of a parasuicidal cry for help in as many ways as I could think of. As an adult, I became serious about ending my life. My despair and psychological difficulties had crippled me to the point where I was waking up in ICU with no idea how I'd gotten there and, at times, retroactive amnesia. I think that, for me, the threat I felt by having to tolerate the experience of being myself far outweighed my fear of no longer being who I was/am. That is me, though. I agree with you that experiencing the fear of death is a natural part of dying. But I really don't regret a lot of my experiences - they made me who I am and since I don't live in anyone else, I've found that what is known is comfortable and I can feel compassion for the person I was for so many years.

I do think that experiencing a lack of meaning is a form of spiritual and existential crisis. I know that it can push me, individually, over the edge. I also know that as long as I have a sustained contact with the natural world, I will experience meaning. I want for my life to pass on invisibly. I know myself and I also know the pain and shame of scrutiny. I don't want to be special in this world but I do want to adhere to my own ethics and values and, above all, be kind. To offer compassion while still having boundaries. To love and lose and love again. My partner is significantly older than I am and I know that I will outlive her barring some sort of accident, that I will be as present for her death as I can be. We've discussed it more than once. Is that weird?

What I suspect is that once one has stared death in the face, examined and come to terms with, as an individual, the very final implications of no longer being said individual, that there isn't that much to fear. I don't fear physical pain or loss of my own ego. I remember once I was hoeing garlic in a vast field after smoking some super potent sativa and suddenly I was no longer my own psyche: i was the garlic and the hoe and the soil and the sky and it felt so connected and real and honest. These are my thoughts in response, and perhaps they do not do your thoughts justice, but I hope to add to an ever-evolving conversation within this community of brilliant people. :)
 
We have two ultimate truths. We live, then we die. Having to "cope" with nature just shows man's innate hatred of domination or totality.

How could a God curse us with such an intricate network of firing neurons?
 
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That's a good question. Personally I hope there is no god because he certainly doesn't care about our suffering. No one asked for this so it's not like we are guilty of anything.
 
I like that last sentence cosmic...

What if god is ethically or functionally unable to help us?
 
How ethically? The balls always been in it's court.

What's really scary IMO is what if it doesn't want to help. What if we are the ants and it's got the magnifying glass. From the evidence,if there is a god, that would seem likely.
 
If God were a good boy, he couldn't ethically punish us if he is still an object of speculation. I'd prefer not to believe in a bad God, and if he or it or whatever the fuck it is were to turn out as totalitarian or evil, I'd rather secure my spot eternally in nonexistence or a subforum.

However, what if God isn't omnipotent but is still something to admire, unannounced to us?
 
I don't see why those lines would be blurred, since all of which are man made distinctions.
 
Deep down in the layers of my consciousness I accept the idea of death and even embrace it to a point. But on the surface there's this primitive self preservation drive that can not stand the thought of my "life" being discontinued.
 
I think life is just a meaningless trip. Although I'm cool with life being meaningless.
 
armoredslug said:
To love and lose and love again. My partner is significantly older than I am and I know that I will outlive her barring some sort of accident, that I will be as present for her death as I can be. We've discussed it more than once. Is that weird?
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I do not think it is weird at all. I think your partner is very lucky. I've been privileged to be present at a good friend's death and it was not a quick one. I say privilege because it is as intimate experience as birth, just as miraculous but also so heavily weighed down with loss. My friend was young and she was angry about dying, and she had been somewhat of an angry person all her life. But the process of dying was among other things, a process of simply setting down one after another all the angers she had stored up and by the end it was as if I had just watched a huge ocean liner reverse course. It was powerful and graceful and I feel honored that she let me be a part of that most vulnerable of processes.

I remember once I was hoeing garlic in a vast field after smoking some super potent sativa and suddenly I was no longer my own psyche: i was the garlic and the hoe and the soil and the sky and it felt so connected and real and honest.
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I posted a prose poem a friend gave me in my son's shrine that expresses that very experience of death. Page 13, post 312. When I was looking for it, I read similar sentiments of my own in a few other posts. When I took myself on a four month long walk after he died I had a very powerful experience where I felt the peace of knowing that he was everything from the black water to the stars to the creatures floating in the water--much like your garlic experience--but unfortunately that is a hard peace to stay in; it can't be forced by intellect but does occasionally break through. <3
 
@herbavore

Wow, your experience with your friend seems like it was incredibly intense and revelatory. My partner and I have a plan that we are each going to develop and kindle a relationship with a tree in the woods here, and perhaps we will end up as dryads. When I am missing her, I will go to her tree and that will be my way of being close with her again. While I don't know if that will soothe my heart in the immediate aftermath of her death, I believe that it will be a source of solace long-term.

I read the prose poem and it is so beautiful and true! Actually, the prose poem led me to start reading the thread from the beginning and the whole thing is so powerful...it reverberates in my heart. It also lent me a lot of insight. I thank you for leading me to it.

It is true that it is a hard truth to remain in. But just knowing that the truth exists, even though it cannot be forced by intellect, is a comfort in and of itself for me.
 
I do sometimes fear dying. Is it gonna be painful, long, a burden on my family.

Death, however I do not fear. I am a Christian, I do believe in heaven and Hell. I have chosen my path and sometimes that's opposed to God's will for me. I however, believe in a loving God who has known me from time immemorial and who knew NY shortcomings long before I did.

I will be reunited with family and friends who have gone before me. I will live forever.

Oh death, where is thy sting?
 
No loving god would send its flawed creations to hell for eternity though.
 
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