antidepressant interactions with recreational drugs

[P Schwangles]

Do not take 4-FA if you are on Celexa!!!

I’ve met numerous people that have used MDMA whilst on SSRIs in ignorance of the issue of serotonin syndrome, none have had problems and their does seem to be some dispute and confusion in this area.

Personally I’d avoid MDMA whilst on those type of ADs, including SNRI etc, but whatever you’re taking it’s sensible to consider the interactions with any prescribed and OTC stuff your taking. 5HTP or St Johns Wort can cause problem’s, even grapefruit juice can be an issue with some drugs.

I’ve waffled more than a bit but hopefully made a few coherent points:D

I have a friend who is currently taking 10mg Celexa/day (an SSRI of sorts). He has taken MDA on it without any problematic interaction but strangely, 4-FA turned out to cause a negative interaction for him! He was remarkably sensitive to it and manifested symptoms that I believe were indicative of serotonin syndrome. From eating only about 75mg, he started off getting really high in a pleasant but unusually intense way. As the effects continued to develop, he became sweaty and feverish, spaced out, and he vomited a number of times throughout the evening. I ate around 140mg and had the standard mellow, pleasant effects that I have come to expect from 4-FA.

I just wanted to post this to warn people about this unexpected contraindication. I consider 4-FA to be a milder serotonergic drug than MDA or MDMA, yet something about its pharmacology did not agree with Celexa. I fear that if he had taken as much as me, we would have had to bring him to the hospital.

 

[Marmalade]

They seem to be particularly concerned about what the medications are licenced to be used for, regardless of what the patient needs. As i couldnt get wellbutrin as its not licenced in the uk for treating depression, but it is licenced for smoking cessation. Im certain Mirtazapine is not licenced for benzo cessation, and it is only doing half the job in treating my depression.

Yes, I've found the same but it's fairly understandable really since they're going by set guidelines, and prescribing something for a problem it's not licensed for means they personally take responsibility if the sitution goes wrong.

My Doc says to do the above (ie: prescribe against the guidelines) they have to apply in writing to the GMC (or whatever they're called) to get permission to be able to do it.

I've found if you admit to taking/using a drug in the way not detailed in their advice or the drugs official set of guidelines, that doesn't go down too well either, even when there's no chance of harmful side effects occurring. Chances are they'll take you off it.

This Doc inparticular is actually alright too (well, not bad compared to some), and I've known him for over 25 years and have a decent relationship with him. Enough to always be totally honest with him and upfront about doing things I perhaps shouldn't be doing, or that I know he'd disapprove of.

 

[mydrugbuddy]

it is understandable but its fucking annoying when you have evidence infront of you that it does work, it is working successfully for many patients in the USA, but UK GPs wont stick their neck out. I can understand why, Shipman and all that. I would imagine that at other times in history GPs had far more discretion to just use their own training and judgment.

 

[Marmalade]

Hrmn, I don't know the case with that particular prescription in the US, but I'd say you'd have to pull up some pretty substantial and credible source info for a Doc to take that line seriously.

It's not like the US has a great reputation with UK Docs, for prescribing meds.

 

[mydrugbuddy]

She googled it whilst i was there. To be fair once she saw that Wellbutrin lowers the seizure theshold and is contra indicated for benzo reduction she completely ruled it out. I am now able to see that she made the right decision. However i am not reducing benzos atm, and i went and got my own wellbutrin. Ive only taken it once, i didnt like it, it increased my anxiety levels massively.

Ive finally had the courage to reread my posts in this thread from when i was flying off the handle at everybody. Jesus christ. Thank you everyone for sticking with me through that. I cant fully remember how i got myself into that much of a mess, but one contributing factor was Id just been assigned a brilliant mental health intervention support worker 2 weeks earlier and was massively leaning on her for support, and then she got moved to another job in another location. Abrubtly. With no warning. That hit me very hard to loose her support when she had become my main crutch.

 

[monstanoodle]

A mate of mine is on mirtazpine and it's sending her loopy at the minute, extreme paranoia/depression and rages on a worrying level. Not sure if it's worth anything but just shows the negative reaction it can have with someone although she uses recreational drugs.

I had the same reaction. It made me terribly moody, groggy and depressed. Pretty dangerously so. Horrid drug

Mirtazapine sent me borderline insane too.

Every night I dreaded going to sleep (it was akin to dropping acid every night with the madness I incurred from sleep paralysis with recurring themes).

My waking hours were spent feeling brain fried and anxious. Intimidated by the previous nights 'dreams' and dreading what ones were to come.
Tis heavy duty stuff I really wouldn't recommend. But I guess everyone's different.

It's a weird one is Mirtazapine - Everyone I've spoken to about it or read accounts of how it's affected them has either been really good and has helped them a lot or it's been a fucking nightmare.
It was a fucking nightmare for me from night 1.
Cornish - The bad-hallucinogen-trip-esque dreams is a weird one innit, because it acts as an antagonist at quite a few of the Serotonin sub-receptors that are acted upon by LSD, Psilocin, DMT et. al. (5-HT2A, 5-HT2B, 5-HT2C, 5-HT27 plus fuck knows how many more).

 

[mydrugbuddy]

it seems to be helping me a lot about 2 months into it. I agree that its very weird how differently it affects people.

 

[Sammy G]

Cornish - The bad-hallucinogen-trip-esque dreams is a weird one innit, because it acts as an antagonist at quite a few of the Serotonin sub-receptors that are acted upon by LSD, Psilocin, DMT et. al. (5-HT2A, 5-HT2B, 5-HT2C, 5-HT27 plus fuck knows how many more).

Good, comprehensive info. If a little unfortunate in terms of timing.

 

[velmwend]

Mirtazapine left me feeling depressed, groggy and constantly irritable. My family begged me to stop taking it after 3 weeks, lol. The dreams were *amazing* though *very* vivid, spiritual, otherworldly gems.

Side note: I've been taking different anti-depressants since 2005. got through quite a lot of brands. Escitalopram has worked best for me.

Saying that, I took 75mic AL-LAD the other night, and it didn't do nowt. I'm wondering whether the escitalopram (10mg) killed it.

 

[Acid4Blood]

My gf started on Cymbalta (Duloxetine 60mg) for 2 weeks now.

Planning on taking MDMA tomorrow night. So serotonin syndrome is pretty much a myth in this regard if doses are kept low?

 

[mydrugbuddy]

dunno anything about duloxetene, but if it is an SSRI it will probably just stop the MDMA from working. Sertraline made mdma completely pointless, all i got was from it was the stimulation (couldnt sleep all night) and butterflies in the stomach feelings. Ive taken loads of stuff while on an SSRI, the only thing that i wouldnt take on them is tramadol due to the serotonin syndrome and seizure risks. SSRIs seem to prevent serotonogeric drugs from having their full range of effects. Dopamininc substances work just fine though, as do benzos and opiates.

 

[Acid4Blood]

^ Right, cheers 4 that. Might not go down the MDMA route now considering how little she was getting from it before even starting on the SNRI.

We're going to see Dan Le Sac Vs Scroobius Pip in Dublin & she wants to guarantee herself at least 2-3 hours of dancing time. She suffers from chronic pain/fibromyalgia so dancing would not be possible without chemical assistance.

Our other options are mushrooms &/or 2CB. Libs I picked last week &/or those blue heart pills.
Should guarantee her dancing time between those 2!

 

[Marmalade]

Ooo! Dans Le Sac/Scroobius ... very nice!

I'd go for a low dose of shrooms personally. Have a good one.

 

[Acid4Blood]

^Will do. Cheers! %)

Yeah, think shrooms first & then cee bees as back up.

This will be my 5th time seeing Dan V Pip. Always a great gig. Lookin forward to it!

 

[monstanoodle]

Good, comprehensive info. If a little unfortunate in terms of timing.

You know I'm good for untimely information Sammy

Ooo! Dans Le Sac/Scroobius ... very nice!

I'd go for a low dose of shrooms personally. Have a good one.

Aye: When it comes to SNRI's and MDMA and Amphets etc. then it's usually the case that you need a larger dose to feel it (I know that this is true for me and a few other people I've shared experiences with when we've taken MDMA, Amphet and Mephedrone [Cocaine too, I guess that counts also] while on SNRI's - Amitriptyline for me) but I would never be 100% on such a statement. This is purely anecdotal.

And ooooh! Yer in for a grand night then! :D
**Turns on the ego for another anecdote**

I used to chat with Dans Le Sac quite a bit when the Planet µ chatroom was still alive.
We (all the music-makers) used to do a production thing called "Quickshots" where you were left with the samples of the persons-before-your-track and you had to create a new track using those samples and any others that you wanted, which would be passed on to the next person on the list (ad infinitum).

Oh, and all the tracks had to be no more than 1m30s.
Twas really good too as I found it could end the creative slump that one finds themselves in (like now for my personal example ()

 

[Acid4Blood]

I used to chat with Dans Le Sac quite a bit when the Planet µ chatroom was still alive.
We (all the music-makers) used to do a production thing called "Quickshots" where you were left with the samples of the persons-before-your-track and you had to create a new track using those samples and any others that you wanted, which would be passed on to the next person on the list (ad infinitum).

Cool! %)

Yeah, Dan was on form last night! Great gig. As always!

My gf & I ate 60 libs each (picked last week) on the way to the gig. I was blissed out all night. First time I've had 'inner peace' or 'stillness of mind' for a long time.
My gf got about an hour & a half of euphoria before becoming apparently serotonin depleted. She even stopped taking her SNRI for 2 days previous to see if it would help.
I'm guessing her serotonin levels are extremely low due to her chronic pain/fibromyalgia/absence of REM sleep. All serotonergic drugs seem to have the same effect on her. Same hefty comedown for a fraction of the 'up-time'.

monsta - How long do you stay up before returning to baseline when you do MDMA while on Amitriptyline?

 

[mydrugbuddy]

60 libs ? thats very heavy, have you got a tolerance ? i heard of one guy in my hometown taking a crisp bag full of them, i wouldnt have liked to be in his head, another guy had to go to hospital to get his stomach pumped. The town was rife with libs, they even grew on the school playing fields, we had the police come to our school to talk about them, and the copper was talking about incidents of people tripping their skulls out on trains not having a clue where they were. I looked at my mate who had gone the brightest shade of red in embarrasment, and for some reason i instantly felt the same. God that was a bad experience.

 

[Acid4Blood]

^ No tolerance. Last time we tripped (acid) was about 2 weeks ago. Perhaps a longterm tolerance to psychedelics if that's even possible. I've definately tripped alot heavier off 30 libs 10 years ago!

The aul psilocin aint what it used to be! Themz stemz waz bright purple back in the day! :D

missing old mushrooms!

 

[Eveleivibe]

Wow this thread looks interesting I'll have a read of this later. Been searching for interacting with antidepressants meds for Depressant thread.

Hope no one minds me bumping this but it'll be easier to fibd later. Plan to read through this after KW visit. MDB you make some great threads n posts x

I had a quick read of Cornishman's post (2) he spoke sense n after reading a few of his posts I fwel sad that I never got t he chance to know him. I think he ppassed before I joined EADD. RIP

Evey