96 deaths, 27 years, justice - Hillsborough

[StoneHappyMonday]

They have not been welcomed. They have no place to stay and they're putting a huge strain on the policing.

Let's see how it pans out if it's peaceful I'll be man enough to apologise if they cause trouble then we can agree this heaps shame on Liverpool

They have been entirely welcomed. The Basel police are on record as saying they believe most are on flights home tonight (and yeah, where exactly did you get that 100,000 number from?). If you really want to be a blame seeker, start with questioning why a European football final is being held in a 38000 capacity stadium in a relatively small city. And why only just over 10% of those tickets have gone to true Liverpool fans. Start with EUFA.

Meanwhile, I still know people who, through their own prejudices they just can't shake (sound familiar?), believe Rolf Harris is not entirely guilty and his victims share some of the blame. Sound familiar?

I look forward to your apology in the morning.

 

[mistereman]

You may be waiting a while as I'm hearing these lovable Liverpool fans have been caught in the act. Now, does that sound familiar?

They're morons who consistently bring shame on Britain. No more apologies for these filthy scum they have no respect for the law and it's everyone's fault but theirs. Bollox to them.

 

[Vurtual]

What everyone conveniently forgets is those decisions, however poor, were brought about by thousands of Liverpool fans turning up en mass and a proven number of these had no tickets. It's a recipe that causes trouble. Tonight may or may not underline that let's see shall we?

As far as i understood there was enough room for all the fans that were there (pens to either side) if the proper plans had been put in place by the police - they weren't, partly due to the replacement of the policeman in charge with someone inept who didn't know how to do the proper safety planning - none of that is the fans fault; rowdy or not, when they decided to go, they might have understandably expected that the usual arrangements were in place that would have prevented the tragedy - even if they went unthinkingly, we as a society should have expected the arrangements to happen - again no fan is at fault. These were not 'hooligans' they were just normal 'common', sometimes drunk people (like you used to see more of in football).

Either way any individual person's action is theirs alone and shouldn't be used to target an entire group with some simplistic prejudice - we rightly look down on that thinking when applied to races. (institutions (like the police) are another matter)

 

[StoneHappyMonday]

Caught in what act? Links?

I think you outed yourself with your second para.

 

[One Thousand Words]

Reports coming through Twitter from the ground...

Ugly scenes. Just heard a Liverpool fan shout at Sevilla fans that he will "do a heysel" to them. Sevilla fans chanting Hillsborough.

I am in Basel and Liverpool fans are chanting "you'll never walk again" at a male with both legs amputated in the disabled section. Awful.

#LFC fans upset with loss now throwing coins at Sevilla's corner. A corner filled with women and children. Disgusting

Stewards intervening but it's hard for them to identify perpetrators. Expecting UEFA fines and police investigations after match

Fuck any scousers in a red shirt. They are a disgrace and no club deserves their infamy more than these dogs.

Now apologise to the man shm

https://mobile.twitter.com/JasonLynchHVN?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author

 

[StoneHappyMonday]

^

You think that's comparable with Hillsborough rather than run of the mill football idiocy? GET FUCKED.

You're both morons looking for any excuse. Call me back when 96 are dead and there has been a 28 year cover up.

 

[One Thousand Words]

It will hopefully be after their next European ban.

Why do Liverpool fans always cause trouble?

 

[mistereman]

It will hopefully be after their next European ban.

Why do Liverpool fans always cause trouble?

They cannot behave themselves. It's washed down as cheeky scouse wit until something more serious happens and then it's everyone else's fault. When will these retarded pricks learn?

 

[mistereman]

Caught in what act? Links?

I think you outed yourself with your second para.

I don't know how to link but it's on every news agency you care to search. Liverpool fans causing more trouble and whilst you'll argue this has nothing to do with Hillsborough my point stands there's no smoke without fire.

 

[Itsgoneundertheboa]

^ Well this pretty much sums up what this forum in general has become.

I used to enjoy intelligent debate and discussion with sensible people. People who had yet to have their brains obliterated by media and authority washing, people who had not been tainted by none sensical bigotry. People who didn't have ridiculous levels of trust in authority and "news". This place never used to be full of the I've been told the truth because I've read it / taught it crowd.

FYI re Hillsboro The "news" you like to quote or at least refer to. Fact even before people finished being crushed to death news said the fans were fighting.

Then the news when they started lifting bodies out said Liverpool fans rushed the gate and that story stayed and was embellished for 27 years.

With the help of the "news" police decided to blame fans. Police inspector lied about the gate opening he had to cover it up. So then guess what? They took alcohol levels of all the dead. The first time ever it had been done on mass. Why? Evidence the fans were drunk, evidence to try and support their "claim". Oh and then leaked it to the "news" that some had alcohol on the day of the match.

All these stupid bigot posts clearly show the writers as what they are - they have not done any research into the causes of hillsborough except to continue to spout old "news", news which is now established as fabrication and lies. Then throw in bigotry (tar brush because it suits their bigotry) using the case of a few bad apples to highlight why they can be bigots. Sorry but their are bad apples to be found in any "fan" base of any team in any country.
[MENTION=81382]mistere[/MENTION]men you have absolutely no idea how misled and gullible you appear and by your belief that news is real. Id teach you a few things about reality but frankly I think your happy in your little bigot bubble and you'd be lost if I burst it.

Perhaps specific to last night you may feel a bit different to see that fans (no segregation) were put next to each other and all the news today says about 100 Ultra fans were there for the purpose of causing trouble. Once dealt with their was no further trouble. Outside of the stadium Liverpool were welcomed and general very well behaved. Importantly it was dealt with correctly and a strategy in place. Thats from people in Basel I personally know. They actually loved the atmosphere the passion and they reckon it did wonders for the local economy.

Although I very much doubt you'll ever change or consider other views. You'll just quote some random on Twitter and it's on Twitter so it's fact.

One thing pal I'm still confused as to why it's appropriate to post such rubbish anyway in this thread unless it's your and OTW intention to troll. Perhaps start your own about why you hate Liverpool fans, perhaps get members to vote? Let's see how long it lasts and honestly other decent members have been banned for less recently compared to the bigotry and disrespect you show for your fellow humans personal suffering(whether they be from Liverpool or not).

BTW I have no interest in football never understood it and have no links to Liverpool IRL. I just look for the truth and this story is a real key one if you actually forget your bigotry and look at the actual facts of what was engineered by authority and "news".

I'm done here. BL is no longer a place I can find free thought, safe advice and respect for others view. I've got enough bigots and selfish people to deal with IRL. Thanks BL for a good run.

Boa

 

[Vurtual]

^Well there was only two of them to be fair.

My response to OTW and mistereman is a selfquote: "Either way any individual person's action is theirs alone and shouldn't be used to target an entire group with some simplistic prejudice - we rightly look down on that thinking when applied to races. (institutions (like the police) are another matter) "

Sounds like some confirmation bias going on to confirm already existing prejudice about scousers - do either of you know any people from liverpool? Did either of you watch that documentary? How can you not be moved by that? This has nothing to do with whether any fans from liverpool ever did anything bad (obviously they did - like any group of individuals there's gonna be some cunts in there (but mostly not cunts, like any other group) - the mistake is the tarring the entire group with the worst example - that's prejudice and bigotry (and just unintelligent)

 

[One Thousand Words]

People who had yet to have their brains obliterated by media

Perhaps specific to last night you may feel a bit different to see that fans (no segregation) were put next to each other and all the newstoday says about 100 Ultra fans were there for the purpose of causing trouble.

.

I just look for the truth and this story is a real key one if you actually forget your bigotry and look at the actual facts of what was engineered by authority and "news".

You wot mate? I hardly quoted a random Twitter feed, it was a respected journalist at the match in posting in real time. Twitter is the modern independent war correspondent.

Do I know any Liverpool supporters? If you read the thread I was attack by a group of scouser fuckheads on tour in Italy for a champions league match. This was only a couple of years after their European ban was lifted. Was uefa's ruling a bigoted response too?


I'm sorry but there is no defending their actions yesterday. Or at heysel, or pretty much every city their fans travel to. You can try and argue that it is but only a small group of bad apples but that doesn't exhonorate the rest of the supporters who tolerate it. The fact we called out there would be trouble with their supporters and predictably there was is damning. While hillsborough is a tragedy I still stand by my comments that the reputation of their supporters was a contributing factor in how police reacted to the situation.

 

[StoneHappyMonday]

Because you're a moron, that's accepted here. The inquiry, which completely exonerates the fans, you seem to think you're above.

Like I said to the other little boy, you're probably one of these Rolf Harris fans who can't accept your favourite artist is a kiddie fiddler.

Courts? What do they know compared to some prejudiced knobhead like you eh?

 

[Vurtual]

.Do I know any Liverpool supporters? If you read the thread I was attack by a group of scouser fuckheads on tour in Italy for a champions league match. This was only a couple of years after their European ban was lifted. Was uefa's ruling a bigoted response too?


I'm sorry but there is no defending their actions yesterday. Or at heysel, or pretty much every city their fans travel to. You can try and argue that it is but only a small group of bad apples but that doesn't exhonorate the rest of the supporters who tolerate it. The fact we called out there would be trouble with their supporters and predictably there was is damning. While hillsborough is a tragedy I still stand by my comments that the reputation of their supporters was a contributing factor in how police reacted to the situation.

(don't know if this was for me) I read that story about some particular arseholes and it didn't tell me anything about any other liverpool supporters, unless they were also there or involved with other incidents - each is an individual. Other football clubs have cunts in as well i'm sure. When i said 'do you know' i meant as in personally, as friends, rather than some (horrible) stranger - not exactly a fair representation (you wouldn't have come across the majority who weren't being cunts would you?) (i do know several people from liverpool who are lovely as it goes). I'll never defend an individual cunt, but i will defend the entire group against being tarred by the actions of one, or a hundred, or whatever minority fraction, of the group - that way lies madness (and as just another druggie scumbag in the eyes of many, whatever your actual achievements, you should know better).

 

[One Thousand Words]

in case you have been living under a rock I actually call out irresponsible drug users for making it difficult for the rest of us to convince society that sensible drug users do exist. I understand why society has no time for druggie losers when confronted by many of the idiots around here.

Liverpool football supporters running amuck in a European city is as predictable as cowbells during the Tour de France. Explain why police presence in Leicester during home games is five or ten fold larger when hosting Liverpool than when hosting Southhampton or even Newcastle?

 

[Vurtual]

Even if it's a bigger crowd - my point about fractions of groups still stands. And blaming the majority who don't cause trouble for not sorting out the baduns is bollocks also (or it's also your fault that the irresponsible drug users are the way they are)

 

[One Thousand Words]

It is my fault if I don't call them out and take a stand.

We are not talking about one or two bad apples here. Even in a crowd of 30 000, only 100 fuck heads cause a significant amount of trouble. You don't see this sort of shit with the majority of clubs either. Then again you don't see any of this shit with other sports to be fair. Football is a pansy game watched by wannabe thugs.

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

Fuckin Scousers? Bunch of robbing fuckin cunts...

 

[Vurtual]

OTW: Very socially-minded (i approve, you old commie you ). 100/30000 is a very small fraction - i think the maths (and logic) speak for themselves.

 

[One Thousand Words]

Why does Liverpool allow it, if not condone it? At some stage as a community you have to own your flaws and try to eliminate it. Why support a club with such an awful reputation?

Wars are fought against countries with lessor minorities.