96 deaths, 27 years, justice - Hillsborough

[The dropper]

^great post !

 

[StoneHappyMonday]

It's an emotive subject so you're excused.

There were ticketless Liverpool fans at Hillsborough. Sorry that doesn't suit your agenda but thems the facts. Sure the police are culpable for the decisions they made (a point I made clear in my first reply) but Liverpool fans played a part in the tradegy

Fast forward to Galatasary in more recent times and ticketless Liverpool fans were at it again.

Glad they got justice for the police cover up let's hope the 39 dead Italians will get their justice too.

You are conflating two separate issues in an attempt to prove something. So who has an agenda here, me or you?

Let me spell out those two issues.

In 1989, Liverpool fans, now totally exonerated by a two year long inquest, were led to their deaths by police opening a gate (about which they lied) into a stadium that had no safety certificate. No Liverpool fan jumped a fence or broke a gate. They were, as suggested by [MENTION=374737]Itsgoneundertheboa[/MENTION], herded to their deaths.

In 1985, Liverpool fans jumped over a fence, causing the deaths of 39 Juventus fans in Heysel.

Can you see the difference? I've put it as simply as I can.

Thems the facts.

What facts are they that you know that somehow overturn the verdict of a jury in a 2 year long inquest? What is it that you don't understand about the jury's verdict that leads you to believe it is right and proper to conflate two different situations in order to seek justice (rightly) for 'dead Italians'?

But while we're at the justice bit. 14 Liverpool fans were convicted of manslaughter for their actions that day. And it never took 27 years.

No copper is swinging from a noose for Hillsborough. Yet.

 

[One Thousand Words]

Either way no one with half an interest likes to live next door to a Liverpool supporter.

 

[BigG]

Either way no one with half an interest likes to live next door to a Liverpool supporter.

Why so you feel the need to post that in a thread about the tragic deaths of (horror of horror) Liverpool fans?....

What if it was one of your family or friends who had died?

I just don't understand half the shit you post sometimes.....you just succeed in making yourself appear a total twat...

 

[One Thousand Words]

Your bleeding heart is touching. It was 27 years ago. Even the families have moved on.

Let's never forget that two years ago today Steven Gerrad blew the premiership for Liverpool and cried on the drive home

 

[BigG]

Your bleeding heart is touching. It was 27 years ago. Even the families have moved on.

Let's never forget that two years ago today Steven Gerrad blew the premiership for Liverpool and cried on the drive home

Yep true to form you've managed it yet again...

 

[One Thousand Words]

Let's be fair here, 27 yrs ago football was supported by hooligans and racists. As tragic as hillsborough was, it cause a ground swell of change that was good for European football.

I'm not saying that the idiots who fought and trampled people at every other stadium deserved the same fate as these 97 victims, but if it hadn't have occurred at this game, it was only a matter of time somewhere else. Police incompetence or not, you can't ignore that the culture of the fans back then wasn't sustainable and its sugar coating history to suggest that this court ruling completely exonerates the actions of a lot of that stadium that day.

 

[StoneHappyMonday]

Let's be fair here

It would be nice if you could be, yes

27 years ago football was supported by hooligans and racists

27 years ago there were hooligans and racists who followed football. That's quite a different statement.

As tragic as Hillsborough was

But not quite tragic enough not for you to belittle a thread about it eh?

It caused a groundswell of change that was good for European football

Hillsborough did nothing of the sort for European football. The immediate aftermath was to bring down the fences. That was the one positive change. But pretty much the opposite of what you imply.

If it hadn't occurred at this game it was only a matter of time somewhere else

What occurred? You are in denial about what occurred. What occurred was atrocious stadium management and police incompetence. The same thing had nearly happened eight years earlier at the same stadium in another FA Cup semi. Spurs supporters given inadequate room, 36 injured in a crush. No hooliganism. And you are erroneously talking about hooliganism.

Police incompetence or not

What's 'not' about it? Police incompetence has been proven beyond doubt, at a two year long inquest costing millions of pounds. Remind me again how you know better?

You can't ignore that the culture of fans back then wasn't sustainable

The culture you allude to has been proven, by a two year inquiry, as well as by independent reports (Taylor) before then, to have nothing to do with what happened at Hillsborough. Again, remind me of this evidence you are withholding that proves a multi-million pound inquiry wrong?

And it's sugar coating history to suggest that this court ruling completely exonerates the actions of a lot of that stadium that day

But that's exactly what the inquiry says. It exonerates the fans of blame completely. Have you read it? You aren't acting like you have. You're acting as if you have a lot of ill informed prejudice about something you know sweet fuck all about. And that's not like you is it pretty boy?

So I'll ask you again. Produce the evidence you are withholding, the evidence that suggests a lot, your words, of that stadium were involved in a culture and actions that day, your words again, that led to these deaths.

Put up. Or STFU.

 

[One Thousand Words]

Isn't this the third enquiry? Why is this any different? Just because you agree with it?

What happens if they have a forth or fifth one in another twenty years and come to a different conclusion?

 

[StoneHappyMonday]

Isn't this the third enquiry? Why is this any different? Just because you agree with it?

What happens if they have a forth or fifth one in another twenty years and come to a different conclusion?

You really are so thick you'll continue to argue without even bothering to check the shit that spews from your mouth.

Yeah, this is the third inquiry. What's different about it? Well that's a good question. Because the first inquiry, the Taylor report, came to the same conclusions. The second inquiry, the Hillsborough independent report, also came to the same conclusions.

Can you spot the trend here?

So I guess what's different about this one is it took 2 years, interviewed absolutely everyone, cost millions of pounds, and, er, came to the same conclusions.

Not simply the conclusion I agree with. The conclusion all inquiries have come to.

You have nothing to add to this debate. You've made yourself look even more ridiculous through your spectacular ignorance than you normally do on BL.

Now, why don't you post one more idiotic reply we can all ignore and then you can quietly fuck off. Ok?

 

[One Thousand Words]

Did I say I disagreed with the conclusion? No I simply take offense to the fact that no responsibility is accepted by the fans, which is simply pandering to the same emotional blather you are shouting.

I honestly don't give two shits if you don't agree so quit being such a whiny little bitch. It is possible to debate ideas and opinions without having a cry because someone doesn't share your views.

 

[BecomingJulie]

There are certainly less inflammatory and more respectful ways of making the point that the more charitable part of me thinks OTW is trying to make.

His first mistake is to confuse a bunch of violent and racist people who were merely using football matches as a convenient excuse to meet up and cause trouble, with genuine supporters. People who actually care about the game .....

 

[BigG]

He just posts stuff like that in a misguided attempt to appear either "funny" or "controversial"....I can't decide.

Whatever someone's views on the behavior of the fans a thread lamenting the deaths of so many people is hardly the place to air them....

A bit like pointing out the Isralies misguided approach the the Palistinian question at a hollocaust memorial.....

Whatever validity there maybe in the point it's hardly the place to express it (not that I'm saying his comments here had validity)

 

[One Thousand Words]

Take your drivle to the shrine englandgz. There is no law saying I should forgive or even like a Liverpool supporter.

 

[BigG]

You really are an obnoxious little man

 

[One Thousand Words]

Stick and stones you ginger pubed gnome.

 

[One Thousand Words]

There are certainly less inflammatory and more respectful ways of making the point that the more charitable part of me thinks OTW is trying to make.

His first mistake is to confuse a bunch of violent and racist people who were merely using football matches as a convenient excuse to meet up and cause trouble, with genuine supporters. People who actually care about the game .....

I'm sorry Julie but the only mistake made was by the three scousers who sexually assaulted my wife, while drunk on tour at 9am. Despite having my arm in a sling I did manage to spread one of their noses across one of their faces before thankfully the local Italian shop owner stepped in to help me. They may not represent every Liverpool supporter on the planet but by supporting their team abroad and waving their flags like mindless gorms, they result in me not giving too shits about their feelings.

I probably feel sorry for only a handful of kids killed at hillsborough because not only because their lives were cut needlessly short, but also because they also had the double injustice to be raised by a bin dipper up until then.

 

[strungout2010]

OTW. What happened to your Mrs by a group of Liverpool thugs , has no bearing on the innocent 96 fans that died at hillsbourgh, why do you want to keep bringing irrelevant shit up.
Iv been kicked half to death by Liverpool supporters, your point is .....well pointless

As for smacking fella's about with your arm in a sling. I call bullshit. You'd be wrapped up and torn a new arsehole, probably the one you talk out of.

 

[StoneHappyMonday]

three scousers who sexually assaulted my wife

quit being such a whiny little bitch

...

 

[strungout2010]

There are certainly less inflammatory and more respectful ways of making the point that the more charitable part of me thinks OTW is trying to make.

His first mistake is to confuse a bunch of violent and racist people who were merely using football matches as a convenient excuse to meet up and cause trouble, with genuine supporters. People who actually care about the game .....

See a lot of people don't get this , your real football hooligan, don't beat up a dad and his 2 kids, a couple ( like OTW words and his Mrs ) or the season ticket holder who's been going for 25 Years with family.
Proper firms meet away from the ground away from police and innocent public. And have a right old tear up.

You'll always get a few idiots who cause trouble for the innocent , but what pub , nightclub or festival don't. ?