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  • EADD Moderators: axe battler | Pissed_and_messed

96 deaths, 27 years, justice - Hillsborough

StoneHappyMonday

Bluelighter
Joined
May 10, 2001
Messages
18,084
http://www.theguardian.com/football...-deadly-mistakes-and-lies-that-lasted-decades

I know 27 years ago most of you were barely born. I know there is very little sympathy for football in this forum. But this is a story that transcends all of that, a story of injustice unmatched in our times. As drug users who feel affronted at laws you see as being against you, you should feel some empathy. Hell, as human beings, always seeking truth and justice, you should feel an anger burning bright at what has been finally been uncovered today.

Read the link. It's long, but documents the story better than I can. For those who won't, here's my weak attempt at summarising.

On April 15th 1989 Liverpool football fans went to watch a football match. 96 of them never came home. But it's so much more than that. Not only did they not come home, they were blamed, by the establishment, by the police, by the media for their own deaths. Lies were spread about drunken behaviour. Dead bodies were treated as pieces of meat - while relatives wept, they were told they could have no access to their dead loved ones as they were 'the property' of the coroner now.

The South Yorkshire Police have a lot to answer for. Four years earlier they had battered miners heads at Orgreave and been defended in the media, a compliant BBC editing video footage to make it appear miners attacked police, rather than the other way around. Now the media, indeed the BBC, did the police's bidding once more. A hopelessly inadequate force, led by David Duckenfield, a man completely out of his depth, first lost control of a growing crowd then compounded the mistake by opening a gate that led fans inside the ground to their deaths.

And then lied about it.

This has to be seen in context. And the context was another attack on 'the plebs'. It wasn't enough that the establishment hated football fans (and remember, the immediate aftermath of this was Thatcher trying to introduce ID cards just so ordinary people could watch a sporting event). They had to take it further and blame the people for the mistakes of the police.

The Sun published a now infamous edition days later with a front page headline of "The Truth". This consisted of lies made up by the police, attacking normal working people as 'animals' whose own drink problems had led to these events. And that's not to mention the accusations of people pissing over dead bodies (many of the dead bodies had pissed themselves) and the 'looting' of those dead bodies.

How low can the establishment go?

Very, very low.

It's taken 27 years to overturn this narrative. Police officers lied and lied throughout questioning until they could lie no more and fell, crushed (but not crushed enough) under the weight of their own lies. I know I am using the word lie a lot. It is, I assure you, fully intentional.

Respect to the relatives of the Hillborough dead. They have fought tenaciously to get this verdict today. And it is but the truth. A simple thing you'd imagine.

As drug users we should know how hard truth sometimes is to come by.

Respect to everyone involved in bringing this justice about.
 
Such a long time ago and yet it seems like yesterday, the game was shown live on Irish TV and I was still in love enough with the game to never miss a live match, so I watched the whole thing unfold and it seemed obvious at the time that fans were not the cause, that the police were not willing to allow people on to the pitch in the early stages. Of course the cages that were their accommodation were death traps, emblematic of the hostility of the ruling class to working class culture of the time.
 
What a result, but fucking hell, its taken most of my lifetime to prove what everyone knew anyway (I was 10 when it happened). I hope the 96 victims can finally rest in peace, that there families finally feel like they have justice, coming from an Evertonian of 32 years. The pictures of Anfield decked in both red and blue scarfs will live with me forever that whatever your club is, we all support the same - football - the most beautiful sport ever envisaged.
 
I must admit that at the time, as a lifelong hater of everything football related, I was thoroughly taken in by the media reports of drunken, loutish behaviour because a) they were football fans, and b) they were Scouse football fans. It's only in the subsequent years that I realised what a truly disgusting debacle the whole thing was. So I'm glad the truth is finally out and respect to the families for their persistence over all these years which must have been extremely distressing for them. However, some of my sympathy evaporated when they started singing 'You'll never walk alone' outside the fuckin court...
 
Liverpool fans are their own worst enemy. I remember clearly sitting in a cafe in Pisa when a few hundred scousers descended upon the train station after arriving via easy jet, on their way to a game against Lazio.

My wife and I sat with our heads down as they rampaged through the streets like the fine young ambassadors they are not. There really is no other sport that creates such cretins. I often think that while drinking whiskey in the stands at a rugby match, which while being a more violent spectacle, is usually followed by more civilised citizens who can be trusted to watch a game shit faced without getting into a fight.

So does this ruling actually mean any one will be prosecuted or is it simply legal lip service?
 
Prominent politicians are calling for prosecutions. Make your own mind up whether it will happen.

As for the earlier bit of your post. I was wondering whether you or BHM would be first in with a needless jibe. I'm still not sure you're absolved from it. Don't ever suppose your own experience can be used as a condemnation of a whole. For "Liverpool fans" you could easily substitute "football fans". Want me to take you through a walk with Millwall? ICF West Ham? Chelsea headhunters? Fascist scum all. None of which abrogates responsibility from lying scum in the establishment (police, politicians, media) who trampled on the souls of the 96 dead and would do it again at the drop of a hat should the situation require it.
 
I was going to say please dont bring up Heysel but I thought it best not to refer to it at all. The behaviour of the red shites at that game was disgusting, but it was a completely seperate incident and has no bearing on todays result. The only connection, as Fubar has already highlighted, was that the rednoses were an easy target for blame once the coppers got their lies straight.

Thank god ecstasy made UK football hooliganism disappear over night. I dont care if its a bullshit urban legend as its such a class theory. Of course, the introduction of the Premier League and the subsequent commercialisation of football into a 'family based activity' had nothing to do with it at all.....
 
What FUBAR said speaks volumes. He started to believe it at the time because of bias media reports at the time.

It's good that the courts after 27 years have finally come to the right decision. What pissed me off was there was now talk of whether certain police figures should be brought to trial. Surely they have to be, it's now legally a fact several of them have been lying for years? Surely as police, protectors of the public, enforcers of the law, they have to be more accountable for their actions than the average Joe?

And if they are accountable for their actions, what about the Media? The Sun has done nothing but enforce their lies for years, probably even adding their own lies, causing further distress to the victims families. Smearing the names of their dead friends and relatives. Yet no apology in the paper today? Not even an article about it. If one of us did so much to preserve a lie for years, and we were found out, we would looking at minimum 5 years in prison.

I think now they have to throw the book at some of these people for trying to escape justice. If not what we are essentially saying is Yes well we all know the police are corrupt and the media are ok to manipulate society by spreading lies.
An organisation isn't fit to police others if it can't be held to accountability itself. Same with "News" papers who's credibility or lies can't be questioned, especially when the lies lead to a miscarriage of justice on such a grand scale as this.

If it was me, and the dead people my family, I wouldn't say justice has been done yet.
 
What FUBAR said speaks volumes. He started to believe it at the time because of bias media reports at the time.

It's good that the courts after 27 years have finally come to the right decision. What pissed me off was there was now talk of whether certain police figures should be brought to trial. Surely they have to be, it's now legally a fact several of them have been lying for years? Surely as police, protectors of the public, enforcers of the law, they have to be more accountable for their actions than the average Joe?

And if they are accountable for their actions, what about the Media? The Sun has done nothing but enforce their lies for years, probably even adding their own lies, causing further distress to the victims families. Smearing the names of their dead friends and relatives. Yet no apology in the paper today? Not even an article about it. If one of us did so much to preserve a lie for years, and we were found out, we would looking at minimum 5 years in prison.

I think now they have to throw the book at some of these people for trying to escape justice. If not what we are essentially saying is Yes well we all know the police are corrupt and the media are ok to manipulate society by spreading lies.
An organisation isn't fit to police others if it can't be held to accountability itself. Same with "News" papers who's credibility or lies can't be questioned, especially when the lies lead to a miscarriage of justice on such a grand scale as this.

If it was me, and the dead people my family, I wouldn't say justice has been done yet.

Exactly. All that happened yesterday was a majority verdict on the 'true facts'. Real justice has yet to be carried out, and no doubt never will be...
 
What FUBAR said speaks volumes. He started to believe it at the time because of bias media reports at the time.

It's good that the courts after 27 years have finally come to the right decision. What pissed me off was there was now talk of whether certain police figures should be brought to trial. Surely they have to be, it's now legally a fact several of them have been lying for years? Surely as police, protectors of the public, enforcers of the law, they have to be more accountable for their actions than the average Joe?

And if they are accountable for their actions, what about the Media? The Sun has done nothing but enforce their lies for years, probably even adding their own lies, causing further distress to the victims families. Smearing the names of their dead friends and relatives. Yet no apology in the paper today? Not even an article about it. If one of us did so much to preserve a lie for years, and we were found out, we would looking at minimum 5 years in prison.

I think now they have to throw the book at some of these people for trying to escape justice. If not what we are essentially saying is Yes well we all know the police are corrupt and the media are ok to manipulate society by spreading lies.
An organisation isn't fit to police others if it can't be held to accountability itself. Same with "News" papers who's credibility or lies can't be questioned, especially when the lies lead to a miscarriage of justice on such a grand scale as this.

If it was me, and the dead people my family, I wouldn't say justice has been done yet.

Totally agree that justice has not been done but did I miss the point at which the world changed?

IMHO Media tell lies some police are corrupt. AND?

At least all the poor families have some closure and the deaths of loved ones are no longer marred by blatant lies and untruth.

Let's face facts this would never have come to this point without people power and the constant pressure they applied. It took them 27 fucking years. 27 of constantly pushing for closure fighting for justice, raising money and giving huge amount of personal time to fight the establishment for someone to finally realise hey these guys are not going away.

I've just spent 10 mins with a friends kid of 11 I was taking to school who was listening to the story on radio. They asked the inevitable why the people died in the first place. Try explaining that to an 11 yr old without tainting his little world of police are good don't lie and the governments fair and justice is always served.
 
Iv followed this closely over the years, and can't be leave it's taken this long for the truth to come out , everybody knew the police were responsible for the events that day , yet as you pointed out SHM they lied and lied and continued to lie until there was no where else to go but tell the truth.
Most Liverpool supporters still don't buy the sun to this day. It's been along time coming. Fucking filth.
I still don't think anyone will be held accountable for it because once they start so will the lies. Pass the buck time all over again.
 
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It is abhorrent, but not surprising, that it has taken this long for the truth to come out and the media's, including The Ministry of Truth's, lies to be fully exposed. There are still stickers to be seen, here in NI, urging a boycott of The Sun. These practices are Government doctrine. There is still the foul stench here as the same techniques were employed for the events of Bloody Sunday, where justice is yet to be realised. On top of that, more and more acts of despicable collusion between the security forces and paramilitaries keep emerging.

Justice is a pipe dream.
 
I read a great and quite moving quote from a woman who was a sister of one of the 96 that passed away.

Julie Fallon, sister of Andrew Sefton, who was one of the 96 fans killed during the 1989 Hillsborough disaster, describes how the Hillsborough families coped…and what they have lost in the process.

"We have paved the way for other ordinary, decent people in this country, who also find themselves in extraordinary circumstances of someone else’s making, to tread the path to truth and justice. We have swept the road before you, heaved boulders, checked for mines, swallowed dust, buried our dead at the roadside and, at times, crawled on our hands and knees, so that the path is now a little easier for you to walk on."

Ultimately, she says, “We’re still standing”.

And in the end, that’s what counts.
 
Really moving to see the families get a semblance of justice after being treated like shit for so long - whatever facile stereotypes people have about scousers, the dedication of those families to their loved ones memories and to justice in the face of a facsist/thatcherite/police/freemason/media establishment onslaught is an example of the best of humanity.

Though i'm still not sure how much it's really justice after waiting 27 years... (and before some people are prosecuted) I just hope that South Yorkshire Police will also face a reckoning over Orgreave (not holding my breath though).
 
What FUBAR said speaks volumes. He started to believe it at the time because of bias media reports at the time.

It's good that the courts after 27 years have finally come to the right decision. What pissed me off was there was now talk of whether certain police figures should be brought to trial. Surely they have to be, it's now legally a fact several of them have been lying for years? Surely as police, protectors of the public, enforcers of the law, they have to be more accountable for their actions than the average Joe?

And if they are accountable for their actions, what about the Media? The Sun has done nothing but enforce their lies for years, probably even adding their own lies, causing further distress to the victims families. Smearing the names of their dead friends and relatives. Yet no apology in the paper today? Not even an article about it. If one of us did so much to preserve a lie for years, and we were found out, we would looking at minimum 5 years in prison.

I think now they have to throw the book at some of these people for trying to escape justice. If not what we are essentially saying is Yes well we all know the police are corrupt and the media are ok to manipulate society by spreading lies.
An organisation isn't fit to police others if it can't be held to accountability itself. Same with "News" papers who's credibility or lies can't be questioned, especially when the lies lead to a miscarriage of justice on such a grand scale as this.

If it was me, and the dead people my family, I wouldn't say justice has been done yet.

Not that it stands for much but I think the sun did make a front page apology to the family's a few years back.
Or did I just dream / make that up. ?
 
Totally agree that justice has not been done but did I miss the point at which the world changed?

IMHO Media tell lies some police are corrupt. AND?

No, let's tell it as it is. When needed, the whole institution of the police force is corrupt. Institutionally corrupt. Here, the South Yorkshire police lied about events on the day and were then backed by the West Midlands police covering up for them in an 'independent' investigation of the police investigating the police. Greater Manchester Police also put their oar in around 2013.

We are not talking a few bad apples

And that's the Daily Mail.

Hillsborough:The shameless lies, smears and cover up

That's the Liverpool Echo picking over individuals responsible for the lies. Lies that included smearing fans, a whole city, and the idea they could make up a fictional cop, call him Mr X, and blame it all on one bad apple. You can't make this shit up. Unless you're the police.

Here the Guardian names individual coppers and what they were responsible for

And if we're talking media, let's not forget The Sun refused to put the story on the front page all day (it was on page 8, some way behind the tits) and The Times was only forced into putting it on their front page by a mutiny of their own sports journalists, after initially leading with a story about snow and the ultimate guide to status handbags.

The Guardian on The Times' climbdown.

1637.jpg



Yes Strungout, The Sun published an apology, in a last desperate attempt to beat the Scouse boycott. Its failure to beat the boycott, and increase circulation in Liverpool, is everything to do with their scumbag refusal to lead with the story today.

The Sun. Not worth wiping your arse on.
 
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Isn't it great that we now have a Culture Secretary who appears to have been blackmailed by the press into not implementing levenson which was meant to at least bring an end to some of the most fucked up tendencies of the press.
 
There is a reason freedom of information laws release secret government papers after 30 yrs. by this stage most politicians are either dead or time has dulled the public outrage enough for things to slip by without consequence.

This is simply another piece of history with a similar ending.
 
There is a reason freedom of information laws release secret government papers after 30 yrs. by this stage most politicians are either dead or time has dulled the public outrage enough for things to slip by without consequence.

This is simply another piece of history with a similar ending.

The Tories and The Sun still blame Manchester United supporters for Peterloo.
 
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