Esoteric Psychedelic Ideas and Revelations Inaction

[Rynp04]

Okay, heres a little something i've come to understand, even with my little psychedelic exploration.

I've done shrooms and acid a number of times, enough to count on my hands. The source tends to be the preventer in allowing me to trip more, but ever since my first trip I've tried researching the living fuck out of hallucinagenics. I set here today tweeked out and have come to the conclusion that the answer to all questions really is psilocybn and related.(grain of salt, nothings gonna change so radically, but over time i hope their are more studies on this topic)



First, as I have been reading there are theories that suggest the human mind and what we consider as normal thought process and rapid evolution, has actually came from when our early human/ape ancestors diet changed to/contained psilocybn mushrooms. The evolutionary stand point of this says the shrooms increased vision which allowed hunters to be more efficient, and being efficient is a key part of evolution. As an unknown amount of year passes from eating the psilocybn the thought process is sped up. Everyone knows how the flow of thoughts is so rapid during a trip. Imagine being a normal animal with a definite thought process. You do what you got to do, their is no thinking or feeling about it. This is where a kind of have a whole, but over time the diet and increased thought process began the creation of a primitive language. Once their is a language you can now share "thoughts" and "emotions" in more depth than a non-verbal manner. A teacher usually says if you don't use it you loose it, but im talking about the opposite. Since language had been somewhat made thoughts and feelings could be expressed. Over time these thoughts and ideas became more and more complex, but so did the mind.(aka. what we define as evolved)

So thats just the aspect that the human mind evolved from hallucinagenic use. But their are some more thoughts I have that would seem to fit in the puzzle. If the human mind evolved from mushies, then it would make perfect sense why people have bad trips. The mushrooms "gave" "us" the ability to think like we do, basically we are living on what our ancestors learned off of mushrooms, but it seems normal. When someone has a bad trip, its their socially learned mindset fighting off the mindSTATE that the human brain evolved so rapidly from.(the fact that everything makes sence, but at the same time it doesnt, but with guidance and psilosybn it can hahah)

Ok, math.......is an idea. They say nature contains a lot of math. Math is just an observation of nature combined with our "psilosybn mutated/evolved" brains......and you have calculus that many people have trouble with. But their are mathmaticians who are avid users of pshychodelics, if you understand how the mind works than you can figure out anything that man has created.

Medical side of things, ive thought of a little somthing. Eyesight. This has no background information behind it just somthing i found to be a coincidence. If eyesight improvement caused shroom eating animals to live longer to evolve, than would phychadelics help out with eyesight? I have pretty bad eyesight, but my friend on the other hand has 20/20. his father im assuming(as i havent got the chance to ask into details)has been a lifetime hallucinogenic user.(well ~60 and still shroomin')

And the long shot, is drug use in general, the natural way for the brain to search for its 'food'. But because hallucinagenics are soo suppressed, the easier to come by "fixes" are what people get addicted to.

done my rambling. I hope to adventure deeper into the mind when i can get a better connect.

 

[Mercc96]

I had some MXE and decided that TV is a hell of alot better upside down.
Thinking about it now i think it was just whilst i was on MXE because TV is never good

 

[swilow]

So thats just the aspect that the human mind evolved from hallucinagenic use. But their are some more thoughts I have that would seem to fit in the puzzle. If the human mind evolved from mushies, then it would make perfect sense why people have bad trips. The mushrooms "gave" "us" the ability to think like we do, basically we are living on what our ancestors learned off of mushrooms, but it seems normal. When someone has a bad trip, its their socially learned mindset fighting off the mindSTATE that the human brain evolved so rapidly from.(the fact that everything makes sence, but at the same time it doesnt, but with guidance and psilosybn it can hahah)

Mushrooms can't have done anything as deep as alter our genetic structure. I can't remember my father's thoughts...

If the evolution idea of McKenna is true, then the idea would be- those animals that took mushrooms surived while the non-trippers didn't. Its pure conjecture to wonder what makes an animal (that takes mushrooms) different to those who abstained..

 

[Thorns Have Roses]

I think I might be close to some kind of breakthrough / realization. Yes, sober type, it's a bit more difficult and takes longer to have world changing ideas through steady and repeated thinking than in a psychelicized flash of clarity, but I think it's easier to make use of ideas attained this way. Not to have an idea and keep it on your plate as "interesting" and an example of "expanded consciousness quasi-truth", but as a concrete part of your intellectual makeup, to revolutionize the whole framework of your worldview. Now we've all had such ideas numerous times, and myself perhaps too frequently, much too frequently. My reality is a sort of fractured, cobbled together and not quite internally consistent tower, ever soaring upwards towards Truth, but a number of important philosophical strands never quite resolve because my progress seems to be stuck in a loop that always brings me someplace I've been before. In fact I'm not sure why I started or where I'm going with it. I'm sure when I started deconstructing reality and studying its pieces I had some concrete goal in mind, but that was lost years ago, yet I continue to pick apart the external world (mostly from a social/philosophical standpoint), my own mind, and the relations between the two with ever increasing zeal. I am somewhat comfortable living in my mind in such a manner, but problems seem to arise when dealing with the external world (which I sometimes kind of forget exists), as I am now I am completely incapable of interacting with society. No, I have never been a fan of society, but a certain amount of interaction with it is required for food/shelter/hygiene, I did not have to deal with this so long as being a freeloader worked out, but my time has come, and I may be kicked out in two weeks from my last resort.

What does this have to do with the potential breakthrough I feel I can practically reach out grab? Well, I think there's a possibility that I may have been chasing after truth in the wrong way, in an impossible way, doomed to be left with a mosaic of half-ideas, inconsistent with one another, a jumble of individually operating philosophic subunits that do not unite to form a distinct entity, nothing that one can work with or quantify. If I'm out on the streets, I'm sure I'll continue along this route, since when I'm not busy surviving, I'll have nothing to do but think, think, think, in my little solipsistic world. I'm half-sure I'll drive myself mad doing so. Maybe what I should have been doing all along is chasing after ontological security, but in a stagnant life devoid of meaningful interaction, after I have slowly managed to disconnect myself from society and consensus reality, which even two years ago I still think I was partially part of, I am unsure how I can "find the plot" again (when I doubt I ever saw it in the first place). Can someone like me live in this society, have connections, find some form of happiness? I don't know. And I'm hoping whatever breakthrough I am working towards will answer some of my questions, and give a path toward the future. (I say that because I currently cannot even imagine a future, I feel like my life ended the moment I took that plane out of Washington and dropped out of university. Ever since then I've felt like I'm living in a dream that I can never wake up from.)

 

[TheAppleCore]

I am very very very wary of what drugs "tell" me. I don't think that the message is something that is valid, because the message is just someting that is coming from within your brain ... well, I guess waht I mean to say is I do not think it is more valid than anything else that comes from your brain and from your social conditioning. Taking drugs to get a "message" is dangerous stuff IMO.

Yeah, I agree. I think that sometimes a psychedelically-influenced perspective can offer insight, but those ideas are only really valid if they follow sober logic as well. Which is hit or miss.

Mushrooms can't have done anything as deep as alter our genetic structure. I can't remember my father's thoughts...

If the evolution idea of McKenna is true, then the idea would be- those animals that took mushrooms surived while the non-trippers didn't. Its pure conjecture to wonder what makes an animal (that takes mushrooms) different to those who abstained..

Well, these chemicals do have a fairly profound effect on psychology. It's not hard for me to entertain the notion that some ancient human / hominid tribes met some circumstances in which the ingestion of powerful psychedelic drugs provided them with a perspective that aided survival.

 

[swilow]

^No doubt, but no hereditary/physical changes result from mushroom/psychedelic use.

If a certain type of animal, pre-disposed towards a certain psychology/cosmology ate mushrooms, and in doing so, somehow were more likely to survive long enough to procreate more then the mean, then mushrooms could definitely have played a role in evolution.

Well, these chemicals do have a fairly profound effect on psychology. It's not hard for me to entertain the notion that some ancient human / hominid tribes met some circumstances in which the ingestion of powerful psychedelic drugs provided them with a perspective that aided survival.

Indeed; but I think the McKenna hypothesis leans too much towards mushrooms somehow being the catalyst for change, rather then an aspect of those who were already changed. If a homonid tending to awareness and vocalisation ate mushrooms and thus was able to communicate the threat of danger more succintly, then I see psychedelics as helpful. Howver, in and of themself, these drugs would have needed millions of years of use to shape a species mind/brain; and that is almost impossible to ever determine.

Plants that I would put out as possible candidates for species/genetic survival; opium poppies (diminishing of pain, relief of diarohoea) coca (anaesthetic, appeteite suppresant, energy boost) cannabis (appetite enhancer, analgesic) ephedra (same as coca really)...though all these plants have equal detractors...and I am assuming that spirituality is not a neccesary component for the survival of a species (which it might very well do; I'm sure existential anxiety has always propelled life-forms towards morbidity...)

Hmm.

 

[Shambles]

I agree with pretty much all of that, Swirlow, but have also always believed natural psyches probably played a fairly large role in facilitating the evolution of human society and culture. I think it very likely that it was (and to a lesser extent still is) very important in helping to form bonds and help keep societies (especially small "primitive" societies) together. Would help ease many of the problems associated with modern Western culture too, in my opinion.

 

[Cybion]

^^ uhhhhh thanks for that? or somthing?

At any rate, how is PD tonight?

 

[swilow]

^Excellent thankyou...And yourself?

...and yeah, its pretty well known that there are indeed police officers who look at bluelight.

HR isn't just for users....

 

[Cybion]

doin very well. Yeah, it's to be assumed there is some sort of law enforcement keeping their eyes on forums like this, people just need to learn to be careful and not say stupid shit. Which oddly enough is a revelation for some people D~:

 

[swilow]

Ha, I thought this was the social thread...it isn't :D

 

[Cloudy]

Happens to me occasional, and as we can see, it also happens to LMA with his need for ketamine. Though maybe he realized the potential benefits of consuming ketamine.

doin very well. Yeah, it's to be assumed there is some sort of law enforcement keeping their eyes on forums like this, people just need to learn to be careful and not say stupid shit. Which oddly enough is a revelation for some people D~:

As long as people follow the BLUA no one should be concerned. This site is about harm reduction, and not to mention personal use isn't hidden from law enforcement in their (the LEO) own towns and it especially isn't unknown the law enforcement that many portions of the web have users discussing drugs. Nothing they can do about it, nor can they prosecute for speculative involvement in drugs for personal use (and even if they could, why waste time and money on a bunch of small fries. They are concerned with bringing down suppliers, as the local LEOs deal with personal consumption or dealers).

 

[Tunnelfission]

Have to watch out for cliches when we talk about psychedelic revelations, Human language can be very vague when it comes to unique experiences.

I'm really at a loss whether or not some trips were purely experience of it my subjective arrangement had me trip about something I had already conceptualized. Like my duality trips or my chakra trips.

Gotta keep faith, those trips DID change me... or did they solidify a change that was already happening... if I did do it all on my own then i'm a magic man, far more capable than I ever thought possible, some artists are natural trippers

"I don't do drugs. I am drugs."

Salvador Dali

Can we elicit our own DMT trips without any external resources, can we have endogenous DMT trips?

I feel humans are far more capable than what MOST believe, I have for one relieved chronic pain through mushrooms LSD and yoga, I have wiped pretensions and fears away with MDMA and kept them off, ones I initially felt would be problems for my whole life.

I learned not to judge and never to be judged (rather to just not let it harsh my mellow because people have a stick up their ass!), for one perspective can easily be outwitted by the nuances of another somewhere out there, someone spoke of "contradicting points" well the whole experience...all of LIFE is chaotic, absolute chaos moving in line, absolute freedom and it is a human urge to attempt to structure that chaos...with our resources grounded as a people we now must get over this urge to structure and melt into "is-ness" and chaos.

People all over the world are freaking out, playing roles, always lost in some insane driven mode, never clicking into what they will feel and what they will actualize the moments that they are dying... that they pine to have discovered this appreciation for life passing...when they still had time ahead of them to appreciate it. take the heart and desire of a dying man and be that every day for when the big day comes we will all wish that we had done more with the chance.

 

[MonKeYDNA]

Here's one: Many people describe LSD trips as "life-changing." This statement confused the hell outta me on my first trip (which was both detrimental and beautiful.) Ultimately, I realized that LSD is not life-changing. It is merely mind-changing, what you do after the fact, is what changes life.

 

[IGNVS]

TAC--i love your new avatar

willow--if i had a dime for every second i have lost to my life staring at chewbacca dancing i would be a rich man

and by rich i mean like 3rd world rich, a crisp 20 or so

its so cool but i cant get it down...


http://www.campfiredude.com/campfire-magic.shtml
^^^make your own funky flames... think im gonna stock up at my pool supply store/publix before my next campout

 

[Ximot]

Likewise; I've tripped a lot less since involving myself in occult/mystical practice. These days, for me, DMT (smoked or as ayahuasca), LSD, mushrooms and cannabis are my drug-teachers, but my prime teacher is the Void

Willow, hello!
I do not intend to be on a high horse looking down asking about this but I know I might come across as doing exactly that.... and still, i go ahead: Have you managed to kick the benzos or are you still on a daily regimen like you were a couple of years ago? I use them myself from time to time but I make sure I have long intervals where i do not use any Gaba-affecting drugs at all (like benzos, alcohol, gabapentin, ghb) because I sincerely think that if I used them daily i would not be able to learn a damn thing from any psychedelic as there is too much reality-buffering going on...

Yet another post from me that might be seen as "snobbish." Yes, I have changed, I have really started questioning most people's self-glorifying epic trip reports about how amazing their ego-loss experience was... it all started a couple of years ago when I realised I was getting terribly bored reading the psy forum... or any drug forum at all, come to think of it. It all started looking pointless to me. I suppose I don't mind being called a "buzzkill" or a killjoy or whatever, I just say what I think. Yes, I do see little value in most experiences I read about now, many seem to me to be rather half-baked. And yes, one may say I am looking down in a way... perhaps just to distance myself, to protect myself. Yes, I have done some damage to myself and I am only just slowly on the mend... to what extent psychedelics were involved in that is of course hard to determine. But I think I have been in the game for long enough (using psys for 16 years) to know what I am talking about. To those who just want to shrug me off, go right ahead but be aware that often pride comes before the fall and that it may be your youth that makes you think you're invincible. I think there are others ways of gaining insight, and once one starts living a more spiritual life one can see that one can go so much further with meditation and small insight translated into action than with big insights glimpsed in a stupor and hardly translated into action at all.

Psys are shortcuts... I used to think that's great... I can get glimpses of Nirvana, Enlightenment, etc . . . yes, true. But since I didn't do the work beforehand I was not ready to truly behold what was offered to me... so I couldn't "keep" it . . . so I now largely go with the view that no shortcut leads to anywhere worth going. It's all about the journey rather than about the destination.

There may well be a place for these substances as sacraments, and I still use low doses in party settings on rare occcasions, but I do not use any drugs at all on many days of my life. Even my new wonder drug tianeptine (to lift my mood, which it does amazingly well at the recommended doses) I use only once or twice every two days rather than 3 times a day. But I do question my use andf I am beginning to see exactly who I am when not using at all. And I am beginning to reconcile with that and to like it.

 

[Ximot]

I hung up more or less but to torture the metaphor a bit am still plugged in...

a+ :D

 

[Ximot]

ximot y dont u take ur judgements sumwhere else n not b a buzzkill. what do u do in life that makes u so much better than every1 else? what about psycadelics being used as medicine? is that disrespectful? whatever man im not gonna argue with u on a thread, im just saying ur being snobbish and hippocritical.

Q: why do i not take my judgments somewhere else?
A: because I am addressing people like you specifically

Q: what do I do?
A: I was a secondary school teacher for many years. Right now I don't do any work at all. I am training to be a clinical hypnotherapist right now. I may be doing that, focusing on smoking cessation, drug addiction, stress/anxiety and low mood - kind of preoccupations of mine for years so I figured why not make it a career? I figured that being a therapist is more rewarding and will kind of "force" me to feel better. how can I help someone address their hangups if I myself am not sorted? in a way, you see, what we need to be happy and functioning is a PURPOSE. This might work for me as I care about those issues, actually I am passionate about them. It is probably way more rewarding than teaching kids who for the most part do not really want to be there... preparing kids for high-school exams is by and large a mercenary's job, even though I quite enjoyed shattering the illusions of the innocent by engaging them in challenging eye-opening material. But considering the world economy I may go back to teaching cos it's a safe and stable income whereas as a freelance therapist i will earn exactly what I am worth (and how well i market myself). Whether I'll be a good therapist i will have to find out, but I already know I am not the best at marketing - i actually abhor capitalism and competition of any kind. So there. That answer your question?

Q: does that make me better than every1else?
A: Don't think so. I merely question how many people here use psychedelics and I also question the validity of their experiences. of course I base this questioning on my own experiences, and I am distancing myself from how I used to use. So i am becoming a "better" person than I was. More evolved anyway. Nowhere am i stating that I am better than others. In fact i am suggesting in a couple of places that I have spent a fair bit of time between hell and a hard place, and that I seem to have just about recovered...

Q: Psys used as medicine? is that disrespectful?
A: Obviously not. That's similar to using as a sacrament. But using for a "buzz" (your word) is different entirely.

I can see how i can come across as snobbish, granted! But I am not in anyway being hypocritical, I think. WHY do you say that? Did you feel offended by my post? if so, why?

And, what do YOU do? What qualifies you to address me like you do?

 

[Ximot]

Yeah, this is a total heap of shit.

Not that I don't think that most people who are doing psychedelic drugs are doing them in a way that I would consider stupid, because they are, and I do, but I find it exceedingly obnoxious when it's framed in such a grandiose way as this.

BY THEIR FRUITS SHALL THEY BE KNOWN. It's not about your particular attitude and approaching drugs in a super spiritual way. It's about whether you integrate the stuff in a positive life affirming way or in a way that is destructive. And a lot of the drug taking types that I know who talk a big spiritual game I know are total Kool Aid drinkers and headed for destructions, and a lot of the less assuming, less grandiose people I know are far more spiritually in tune. Go figure.

Well, your words are extremely judgmental and, as such, say a lot about who uttered them. Having said that But I understand your emotion, I am no better than you as I too use this word a lot when something goes against the grain with me.

Also, you have a point about the grandiosity. Now, I have bipolar tendencies anyway, but I don'0t think my post reflects any delusions of grandeur. I am actually stating that I am too sensitive to use often, and that I exhausted myself... where is the grandeur/grandiosity in that? Sometimes I wonder if some people on this site even take the time to think things through before they write.

About the fruits thing... nice metaphor, I like it a lot. I even quoted it in bold, i like it that much. really good statement, and i know full well that I have been guilty of not implementing enough and just using drugs to distract myself. But I can sense from reading so many posts on BL that I am by far not the only one... there is far too much self-congratulory and mutual patting-on-the-shoulder stuff going on here for it to be in any way a harm reduction forum any more. Just saying. Ye all do as ye like.

 

[Ximot]

Psychs have shown me that if I'm ever going to be happy I need to forgive my mom.

Easier said than done.

I had the same revelation about me and my mum and I also find it easier said than done. But I know it'll help me tremendously when I finally fully get there.... i am closer than i have ever been.... but it wasn't psychedelics that "told" me that... actually psychedelics "told" me that she had wronged me... that i would need to forgive is something i found out over time, thrug meditation and othr spiritual practices. Not through psychedelics. But we all have different experiences.