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Dissociatives [Ketamine Subthread] Tolerance & Addiction

Hi everyone!

Two months ago I abused Ketamine really hard. I guess I did about 10 grams total. I used to snort from .1 to .3 grams a day almost every day. But there were a few days that I reached a 1g (mostly because my tolerance were pretty high).

In the last month or so I only did it a few times. But since my tolerance is high (I gotta take 3 times more than before to have the same effect) I probably did about .3 g each time, maybe more.

Even so, I noticed that tolerance builds up fast, but it slows down fast too.

What I want to know, is what are the consequences of a high tolerance to Ketamine. For example, will I be less susceptive to anesthetics in general? What issues may I have to deal with? And most importantly, in some point, will my tolerance go down to a "normal" level, eliminating these supposed problems?

Thanks a lot!
 
I don't have any answers to your actual question I'm afraid. I've been wondering the same thing.
Without wanting to sound like dicksizing, though, your tolerance is not high at all, trust me on this.
 
It's worth noting that there are several forms of ketamine, and I don't just mean whether it's been CUT or not (bleccchhh..) Even if it hasn't, some isomers of ketamine are considerably more potent, almost different in effect if you ask me.

I've only just recently (relatively, anyways) started messing K, which a handful of "serious" K users have told me is of the best theyve tried. However after only one couple of days of consecutive I have noticed that similiar amounts to those used in the past days aren't nearly as effective.

I do get the feeling though, that since tolerance builds so rapidly, that it will just drop off after a day or 2.

just my 2c
 
Hi, I only did Ketamine HCL that cooked myself, so I'm sure it hasn't been cut. The ampoules were always sealed.

I noticed that after 2 weeks my tolerance was considerably lower, but not near as closed to a beginner. My concerns, however, are all relative to hypothetical consequences that this drug use may cause, other than just tolerance for recreational use. Im afraid, for example, that I may have issues with anesthesia in the future, in a surgery.
 
As with any other drug, a chemical that affects and de/sensitizes a receptor system will make you ''tolerant'' to other drugs that have similar mechanisms of action in the body. In the case of Ketamine, this is your n-methyl d-aspartate (NMDA) receptor system. This is where disassociatives take action in the brain. Pertaining to surgery, I think Ketamine is the only anaesthetic that works on that receptor system in use. If you have a tolerance, your doc(s) will just have to give you more to keep you under.

Given enough time and abstinence, your tolerance to the drug will slowly go down over time. Eventually it will be just about as low as it was the first time you did it, but it is possible that you will never be as sensitive to the drug as you were the first time you did it, ever again in your life.
 
My friend used to do around 2grams of ketamine a day for almost a year. And he said it took 2-3 months for his brain to feel 100% normal again. His bladder was damaged too. Like he has trouble urinating, and sometimes it would hurt. He still has a problem with urinary tract infections and some minor pains when he takes a piss..and this is almost 2 years later.
 
I haven't done any K since maybe 01 or 02 but I did it habitually for a while and was going through 2-3 bottles a day. I can't say anything about tolerance since I haven't done it once since then but in general I experienced no long term effects.
 
Cyb said:
Pertaining to surgery, I think Ketamine is the only anaesthetic that works on that receptor system in use. If you have a tolerance, your doc(s) will just have to give you more to keep you under.
Click to expand...

Not true; there's also tiletamine, and also PCP is an option (but not a desirable one for many). There's other NMDA receptor antagonists, but strictly for pertaining to surgery, they will rarely ever use 1 drug to put someone under - more often than not, they will often combine drugs such as ketamine/tiletamine, an opiate, a benzo, and/or nitrous oxide. Small doses of many drugs is often safer than a large dose of one drug.

To the OP: many find dissociative tolerance is often irreversible when heavily/consistently abused. This is why it is recommended you only use Ketamine once a week, or PCP or DXM about once every two weeks or longer. Not everyone will find "semi-permanent/permanent" tolerance due to the amounts/duration you used Ketamine, but some others might. Individuals vary.

Finally, this is going to PD.
 
Captain.Heroin said:
Not true; there's also tiletamine, and also PCP is an option (but not a desirable one for many). There's other NMDA receptor antagonists, but strictly for pertaining to surgery, they will rarely ever use 1 drug to put someone under - more often than not, they will often combine drugs such as ketamine/tiletamine, an opiate, a benzo, and/or nitrous oxide. Small doses of many drugs is often safer than a large dose of one drug.

To the OP: many find dissociative tolerance is often irreversible when heavily/consistently abused. This is why it is recommended you only use Ketamine once a week, or PCP or DXM about once every two weeks or longer. Not everyone will find "semi-permanent/permanent" tolerance due to the amounts/duration you used Ketamine, but some others might. Individuals vary.

Finally, this is going to PD.
Click to expand...

I didn't mean it is the only NMDA antagonist out there, I meant, chances are that when you are being put under at the doc's office, they're using Ketamine, and I am not aware of any other NMDA antagonists used for the purpose of putting humans under for surgery. Although, thinking about it, there has to be other ones... just can't say I know them off hand.
 
Cyb said:
I didn't mean it is the only NMDA antagonist out there, I meant, chances are that when you are being put under at the doc's office, they're using Ketamine, and I am not aware of any other NMDA antagonists used for the purpose of putting humans under for surgery. Although, thinking about it, there has to be other ones... just can't say I know them off hand.
Click to expand...

Tiletamine is the other popular one; PCP is undesirable because it gives some patients psychotic side effects among other issues.

For the purpose of putting humans under for surgery, they'll never just use Ketamine unless you're a very, very special case.
 
Captain.Heroin said:
Tiletamine is the other popular one; PCP is undesirable because it gives some patients psychotic side effects among other issues.

For the purpose of putting humans under for surgery, they'll never just use Ketamine unless you're a very, very special case.
Click to expand...

I don't think PCP is used as an anaesthetic on humans anymore. I'm also unsure whether tiletamine is used as an anaesthetic on humans either.

OP: Unless you do ketamine in much higher doses than the average of .3 of a gram on a regular basis I don't think it would make any serious difference if you were having surgery and were given ketamine. Anaesthetic doses are much higher than 300 mg, and ketamine is not used on humans very often. I wouldn't worry about it.
 
Part of the reason ketamine tolerance increases is due to the CYP3A4 liver enzyme. Normally ketamine is demethylated by the liver into norketamine. Norketamine is about 2-3 times less potent than ketamine itself, and the effects of norketamine are largely devoid of hallucinogenic properties (however being a much more powerful analgesic than ketamine). Tolerance increases the ability of the liver to demethylate ketamine into norketamine.

This can be aided by dosing with a CYP3A4 inhibitor 30-60 minutes prior to ketamine administration. Strongly suggested CYP3A4 inhibitors are Quercetin and Bergamottin, and Cimetidine also works. Quercetin is available at health food stores, cimetidine at drug stores and dihydrobergamottin is available in pure form online as an "anabolic enhancer".

Co-administration of ketamine with another NMDA-antagonist may help lower immediate dose requirement and potentiate effects. I doubt one would have to take over 100mg for this effect to be noticed. Co-administration with diphenhydramine has also been reported to potentiate the effects of DXM so I'm sure the same can be said for ketamine. Interestingly orphenadrine, a derivative of diphenhydramine, is a CYP2B6 inhibitor which is another liver enzyme responsible for ketamine demethylation. However, I doubt that diphenhydramine has this same effect.

Another thing I've heard in reducing tolerance is zinc and magnesium supplements. I've never seen any hard evidence for why this is, but people have reported it so I figure it's worth mentioning.

and a final hypothesis of my own, with little scientific backing, high dose piracetam (20-50g) daily for 15 days prior to administration of ketamine may reduce tolerance. This is mainly due to an increased density of NMDA receptors. Granted my understanding of neuropharmacology/chemistry is limited, I would imagine that anything that increases receptor density could promote changes in the receptors leading to reduced desensitisation that may have occured due to heavy use.

hope that helps and please report back if you attempt any of the aforementioned methods of tolerance reduction.
 
Wow, amazing!

I will sure try Quercetin or Bergamottin next time. I plain, however, not to take any more K for now...

Thank you all for the information!

@ MyExcuse

Amazing info. Only if we could do the same to lower MDMA tolerance... One of the saddest thing to me, is to know that MDMA will never be as magic as it used to.
 
Oh excuse me for irreversibly modifying the thread but I believe we needed this so furthermore this will be the central point for these topiques :)

merged and reorged
 
Do you guys think I will ever notice a tolerance increase if I limit myself to 100mg a week??

I have been doing just fine doing it once or twice a week, dont really have anything to escape from, well of course I do but that is not my reason for using. I feel that ketamine gives my mind this reset and when the enjoyable experience is finished I am left feeling like newly reborn, without all the complexity boggling me down. That being said, my creativity has gone thru the roof now that I can actually think about the things Im focusing on and not so all over the place. I think it has greatly helped my adhd
 
If you can manage that you shouldn't not at least for a long time if ever. I might be wrong though, its speculation if you dont have n-th hand experience with it.
 
I believe 100mg a week is a low dose, and you won't notice a significantly tolerance increase. I was taking 100mg just to begin with.

And I think your proposal is very clever. A drug isn't an answer for a problem, and you shouldn't stand your self upon it. But you sure can use a drug to improve your life in certain ways, if you find a balance.

Everything you do in life has pros and cons. And for everything theres a line limit. I mean everything, not only drugs. For example, having lunch on McDonald's once a week won't give you health issues, but doing it everyday will certainly will certainly be a problem. The matter is in how you use the things in your disposal. People tend to give a biased look at drugs, like if it was "cheating on life" or "wrong" to do it, unless you're sick or something.
 
Captain.Heroin said:
Tiletamine is the other popular one; PCP is undesirable because it gives some patients psychotic side effects among other issues.

For the purpose of putting humans under for surgery, they'll never just use Ketamine unless you're a very, very special case.
Click to expand...

really? I know 2 people who have had K injected into them for immediate surgery. With no benzo either. Both people tripped. One person came out of it yelling "Ryan Styles! Ryan Styles!".
 
silentscience said:
really? I know 2 people who have had K injected into them for immediate surgery. With no benzo either. Both people tripped. One person came out of it yelling "Ryan Styles! Ryan Styles!".
Click to expand...

In Canada I have never heard of anyone being given ketamine during surgery, al though I know very little people that have actually had surgery. While traveling I met a New Zealander who was given ketamine during surgery, but this was given with valium and morphine as well. Maybe only in certain countries is ketamine regularly used on its own during surgery?
 
I think it's used only when immediate surgery is needed, and there is no time to do a proper anesthetic combo (which usually involves researching the patient's complete medical history and fasting for 24 hours). It dissociates the patient so that they cannot feel the pain.
 
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