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What ever happened to PCP?
- Thread starter arrall
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AlsoTapered
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What's kind of amazing about PCP is that it gave us the first decent NMDA antagonist for research.
I read the 1970s French patents in which gacyclidine was discovered. It has two chiral centres thus four enantiomers BUT as we know, if one uses a benzene ring in place of the 2-thiophene ring, substitution allows us access to:
-DRI activity
-NMDA receptor activity
-Sigma receptor activity
-Mu receptor activity
But research stopped shortly after dizocipline was discovered.
It's VERY easy to imagine something like TiHKAL but based on the arylcyclohexylamine scaffold.
My BEST guess; if their was just 1 compound I could have made and test, it would be:
It was discovered that the ketone moiety present in ketamine homologues can be replaced by a (chiral) methyl side-chain. The 2-chloro-5-methoxy I've previously mentioned and pointed to the patent.
But the French patents suggest that the increased NMDA affinity due to the chiral side-chain is truly massive - an order of magnitude. As far as we know the -Cl AND the -OCH3 both increase MOR activity. So it really could be something potent enough to fit onto blotters.
I would LOVE to research ACAiKAL not to trip on exotic compounds but as Shulgin did, be able to refine the QSAR an gain a deeper understanding of how such molecules alter our perception of reality.
BTW Reaxys did show the 2-furyl homologues of PCP but there were no references. I've found that a few times with Reaxys - a compound in their database without any hint on how they got there.
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Be the man to do itWhat's kind of amazing about PCP is that it gave us the first decent NMDA antagonist for research.
I read the 1970s French patents in which gacyclidine was discovered. It has two chiral centres thus four enantiomers BUT as we know, if one uses a benzene ring in place of the 2-thiophene ring, substitution allows us access to:
-DRI activity
-NMDA receptor activity
-Sigma receptor activity
-Mu receptor activity
But research stopped shortly after dizocipline was discovered.
It's VERY easy to imagine something like TiHKAL but based on the arylcyclohexylamine scaffold.
My BEST guess; if their was just 1 compound I could have made and test, it would be:
It was discovered that the ketone moiety present in ketamine homologues can be replaced by a (chiral) methyl side-chain. The 2-chloro-5-methoxy I've previously mentioned and pointed to the patent.
But the French patents suggest that the increased NMDA affinity due to the chiral side-chain is truly massive - an order of magnitude. As far as we know the -Cl AND the -OCH3 both increase MOR activity. So it really could be something potent enough to fit onto blotters.
I would LOVE to research ACAiKAL not to trip on exotic compounds but as Shulgin did, be able to refine the QSAR an gain a deeper understanding of how such molecules alter our perception of reality.
BTW Reaxys did show the 2-furyl homologues of PCP but there were no references. I've found that a few times with Reaxys - a compound in their database without any hint on how they got there.
I'll be one of the unnamed trip reporters
AlsoTapered
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Be the man to do it I'll be one of the unnamed trip reporters
I totally agree that (aryl substituted) PCP derivatives would be possible but the ketamine derivatives (I've posted the patent above) are somewhat more complex and those gacyclidine derivatives are a nightmare.
So, 12 steps. Not great yields either. So one would have to begin with a LOT of material to end up with only a speck of product.
It's ALL possible but it's significantly more complex than TiHKAL or PiHKAL to do.
If one had the funding, I know fine chemical companies that would do a deal to make them all... but I estimate they would ask for about £200,000 to do the job (based on 100 compounds) and that's only because they would also sell it as 'chiral building blocks;'.
unodelacosa
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Let me clarify. It's not a criticism of you or for anyone who's been told this line about "Schedule I drugs are drugs with no accepted medical use". To that, I say, 1. law enforcement should not get to determine this; the matter of medicinal utility should be left in the hands of medical professionals who do not have ties to law enforcement. 2. And this totally ignores recreational drug use, spiritual drug use, unconventional psychotherapeutic use, and other non-medical uses. 3. Drug prohibition denies us the basic right that we all have to explore our minds, explore consciousness and 'inner space', so to speak, and the right to autonomous governance of our own physical bodies. That's what I was trying to say so ineloquently. Sorry about that.
Yes, used to live in DC, too, and visited friends in Philly semi-frequently back then into the early 2000s. It was also pretty big in NYC back then, especially in Brooklyn and The Bronx, plus it was big in South Central L.A. then, too, rampant in certain hoods.
It's certainly not for everyone, but to blanket statement outlaw it in some nanny-state, self-righteous effort to protect people from the scary evils of "the bad drugs" while pharmaceuticals kill people everyday is hypocritical horseshit of the worst variety. It's dismissive to call it "good sense not to mess with it" and just write it off as having nothing to offer but "a nightmare waiting to happen". Hasn't anyone ever seen the 1930s propaganda scare-tactic masterpiece of unintentional hilarity called "Reefer Madness"? Don't you feel like the narrator from that film when you make assertions of how "bad" a drug is? Has it never occurred to anyone that that level of propaganda is behind most drug scares.
And look, I know you're talking about firsthand anecdotes, but I almost guarantee you none of those people with those stories were using the drug responsibly. I'm sure no one was measuring the dosing carefully, but rather arbitrarily smoking up unknown, "eye-balled" amounts of PCP like it's cool. The exact same thing happens with synthetic cannabinoid users. People think it's like weed, and they can just grab some unweighed amount, throw it into a joint, and get stoned exactly like it was weed. They don't both to research it, find out what it does or how much a proper dose is, nor what the possible side effects could be. They didn't bother to use a trip sitter, and they didn't pay it proper respect.
There is no such thing as a "bad drug" or an "evil chemical compound". Drugs are inanimate chemicals. Dose, set, setting, other drugs present, genetic predisposition toward mental illness, interpersonal metabolic differences, and user expectations as influenced by society all play a significant role in determining the effects drugs have on us when we use them. We are making a big mistake in outlawing drugs and letting law enforcement oppress society with prohibition. Let's call off the so-called Drug War. There was never any real war, and no one was winning or losing anything. We were just harming each other with Draconian sentences, funding violent transnational criminal organizations, and bringing on a police state that paved the path for the , but instead wanted to just lock up people with drug issues and throw away the key… (until or unless it happens to you or a loved one, THEN all of a sudden we could find empathy for others).
Should it though? It was a groundbreaking discovery that led us to the indisputably useful anesthesia, Ketamine (it's on the WHO's list of essential medicines for example).
This is what you sound like:
No human has "superhuman strength" by definition. That's comic book fantasy and fear-mongering, whether you realize it or not. You're spreading propaganda; please stop.
Good luck with drug legalization in America or the UK. The Democats have declared war on pain patients. I know this first hand. The left as well as the weĺl as some on the right now dictate what doctors can prescribe. I am fucked when my cirrhosis and pancreas troubles get worse.
The UK according to people on here, say they are upping the war on drugs; yes I am aware of Scotland.
The first thing that needs to be done is get rid of politicians telling doctors how much they can prescribe to pain patients. I live in a blue state and it gets worse and worse.
What do I do when the pain is too much? Not many options, it could be solved and my doctor would write me a lot more but thanks to our democrat governor and President Biden I suffer. I suffer because illegal fentanyl is being smuggled in. This is how they solve the problem, limiting legit pain patients, they do this to look like they are trying to stop an unwinnable war. They care nothing about the millions or more legit pain patients, they are absolute scumbags.
Open up the border and here comes the fentanyl. The cartels biggest money maker was weed.
The UK seems to be going in the same direction only no pot legalization. There seems to tougher drug sentences there too.Last edited:
unodelacosa
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I think you misunderstood what is meant by robust safety profile. I'm talking about the fact that there is a huge distance between LSD's active dose range and LSD's LD₅₀ (lethal dose). Compared to another potent drug like Bromo-DragonFLY, LSD is safe even in very large doses in terms of not causing a medical overdose. Accidental over ingestion of Bromo-DragonFLY for example has notoriously killed people in a rather awful, convulsive manner.
It's the difference between amateurs laying blotter the wrong way and professionals doing it correctly. It stands to reason. Again: it's a good thing LSD has a robust safety profile or you'd hear about LSD overdoses all the time, and instead you hardly ever hear anything of that sort. Sure, maybe people have a freak out experience here or there, but not a technical overdose.
No test kit is capable of telling you how much drug is present. They also can't speak to purity. They simply help to determine if a drug likely is present in the tested matter.
And that's what I'm saying you don't seem to appreciate. You'd have to take over 1,000 hits of LSD before it in and of itself became lethal. MIND YOU – at that dose, LSD becomes a deliriant and it's possible someone might accidnetally hurt themselves, but this is a separate instance from overdose.
Of course people have cut their dicks off in the past, sometimes without drugs. Some people are just fucking crazy. Van Gogh cut his goddamn ear off. Granted, it wasn't his dick, but still. Aaaaaand confirmed. Quick trip over to a search engine brings back dozens of stories of this happening in the past. Sometimes because of drugs; sometimes not. This occurrence is still unbelievably uncommon. In fact, it's so uncommon, that when it does happen, there's a news story about it, it seems. Very uncommon events are often newsworthy events. Think about it.
And? That proves nothing. That was your experience, not mine for example. And the knowledge of it probably mildly traumatized you and scared you away from drugs because you were a child. It's no wonder you have an irrational fear of PCP and LSD now. Penis dismemberment whilst on PCP is nothing worth obsessing over. Consider using your adult, logical mind to overcome that fear.
No, that's not what it was. He's actually explained the whole story in interviews before; just look it up. And it's more likely this story inspired the folklore of which you speak, not the other way around.
That's irresponsible drug use to take a high, unmeasured dose. No one is advocating that. But my point before was that – relative to other psychedelics – LSD has an excellent safety profile, and even if a large dose is accidentally consumed, it's almost never fatal and the person fully recovers, sometimes even enjoying the trip. It is not safe for those prone to violent or psychotic states and/or those with serious mental illness (like schizophrenia) in their family.Last edited:
unodelacosa
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No, they're not "in it". Drug syntheses are not food recipes. Cooking involves heating and combining ingredients in a specific way and then serving all of those ingredients together, typically. Organic chemistry uses reagents and catalysts on certain precursors to build or reduce them into new target chemicals. And THEN those chems are purified and isolated to over 99% purity in the context of industry. Ether is a useful non-polar solvent; it's removed from the end product. Hydrochloric acid is common; when combined with sodium it's table salt. When bonded to a drug oil, it makes it a water-soluble crystal salt. And it's the acid in your stomach. Potassium cyanide is used as photographic fixer in darkrooms, among other common uses. There are ~50,000 tons of KCN produced each year, that's how common and useful it is, despite being poisonous if consumed by humans (many things fit this description). It's used in a reaction so its atoms can be bonded into another compound which is cleaned to remove unreacted traces of KCN.
Myth. Fact-check stuff, please.
They're not ingredients. They are chemical reagents. Big difference. Don't fall for that anti-drug, scare-tactic propaganda.
Thanks, bud. I'm not in the UK; I'm in the US like you. And decriminalization comes first, then legalization. It's a very challenging goal, and it's made worse when people spread false information and sensationalized stories about certain drugs deemed "bad", oftentimes as the result of shoddy, unethical journalism and rushed legislation by lawmakers with a poor understanding of biochemistry. When people don't fact check but simply repeat shit they've heard, these kinds of regretful acts of ignorance can lead to legislation that ruins people's lives for no good reason.
Democats? Liberal felines? Lol.
Before you start the political blame game, please know that I don't like bipartisan politics, I don't like either U.S. political party, and I find it agitating when topics are unnecessarily politicized. Democrats and Republicans are just as frustratingly stupid, inept, and prone to gridlock and getting nothing done on Capital Hill. It's not a football game. Let's not forget that motherfuckers like Nixon, Reagan, Rockefeller, Anslinger, and Kissinger dragged us into this prohibition nightmare to begin with. Furthermore, Big Pharma pushed Oxycontin on the public in a New Jack City manner, and they of course lobby the GOP heavily each year. The aforementioned prohibitionists are all Republicans, obviously, but both parties are chock full of incompetent, bribe-taking, "super PAC"-exploiting, Gerrymandering, filibustering, inflexible, ineffective, overpaid, selfish drama queens who don't give a fuck about the American people much less the rest of the humans on the planet, or even if they do, they're too embroiled in their own interests and us-versus-them mentality to do much good in any office.
I understand your fear. This is why I oppose drug prohibition. It's a line of thinking that seeks to criminalize and punish people under the guise of protection even at the expense of those who genuinely need proper medication.
Hopefully not; keep your head up. I'm sorry you're going through this. I would consider getting a second opinion on this matter, and then maybe consider moving somewhere with more amenable drug laws and fewer restrictions on doctors.
Well some states in the U.S. are decriminalizing things and controlling them sometimes even. It's not all doom and gloom, but progress is slow. That's why I wish people wouldn't say terrible things about certain drugs as if it's somehow the drug's fault. It's really sad to see.
Unfortunately pharmaceutical companies and doctors are incentivized by profit, and whenever there's a profit incentive, history has shown over and over, ethics need to be examined, b/c people will prioritize profit over their neighbors' wellbeing. Not sure why you think the GOP is any better on drug policy. Meanwhile, every state is trying to stop pill farms from forming with this brainless legislation, red or blue.
It would not matter if you were in a red state with a Republican governor and Donald Trump as president. Laws are passed by Congress; and both political parties posture as if they're tough on drugs and tough on crime. Trump was talking about firing missiles at suspected drug labs in Mexico, regardless of if he has Mexico's approval or not.
I despise both sides. Biden is an ancient ghost fart of a crooked politician. His dumbass wants to ban menthol cigarettes FFS, but he won't do it before the coming election bc he's afraid of losing black voters. What a racist asshole. Don't even get me started on Hunter Biden. And at the same time, Trump and his kids are a bunch of criminal fucks, too. And besides, doctors all across the country are afraid to prescribe pain medication; it's not just in blue states. Part of it is a fear of lawsuits, and also pressure from their malpractice insurance providers. Republicans have pressure to look tough on crime and they're traditionally real Nazis when it comes to matters of drug prohibition. The effort to curb fentanyl overdoses is bipartisan; let's please not cloud the issue with "everything is the fault of (XYZ political party)" politics.
The border being "open" or not pertains to immigration issues. This is a separate issue from Mexican cartels and other TCOs who smuggle drugs into the United States. You're conflating issues out of a desperation to blame 'liberals' for your problems as if the political party matters.
They're ridiculously bad at drugs, aren't they? When they provided our weed, it was fucking awful garbage full of seeds and stems and had low THC levels. The cocaine they provide is almost always some overpriced, cut, re-rocked bullshit. Meth was good when they made it from ephedrine for a while, but when the feds cut off their Chinese supply of Ma Huang, they started making racemic P-2-P meth and it took them almost a year to figure out how to iteratively resolve the isomers and convert the l- into the d-isomer. And even then, they don't always convert but so much of the isomers, another quality drop. They decide to punch out some fake oxycontin with fentanyl-laced "dirty 30s" but they fucked that up by not milling the ingredients sufficiently leading to the "chocolate chip effect" in the end product – dangerously inconsistent fentanyl pills were the result like the one that killed one of my best friends a couple years ago.
No, their statutes are not as bad as the U.S. on the vast majority of substances. You should fact check these things. US drug sentencing on the federal level is out of control. For example, just 5 g of methamphetamine triggers a mandatory minimum sentence of 5 years for first-time offenders, and 10 years if you have a prior. Five little 1g shards = 5-10 years in the US. None of the western world's statutes can compare. Oh and also, 50 grams – that's less than 2 ounces – fetches a 10 - 20 year mandatory minimum. That's absurd.
unodelacosa
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Relevant link to this discussion: https://isomerdesign.com/PiHKAL/tableLandscape.php?domain=tk&property=arylcycloalkylamine&sort=nameI checked reliable legit sources, You just want to fight with me.
The feds are rarely involved and I was comparing the UK to the rest of Europe
UK is tougher on drugs than many other European countries on drugs.
Those sentencing guidelines are not always used and the feds are usually not involved in small cases in America.Last edited by a moderator:
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I was one of those that got Feds involved, there are specific triggers. Mine was crossing state lines to sell a controlled substance. I did most of my time at a Federal Prison. The Fed Prisons were much better than County and State equivalents.
AlsoTapered
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Used during the synthesis, not present in the product. That said, the side-products of poor PCP synthesis aren't too healthy but they don't have names to increase the pulse-rate.
foodcrisis
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i appreciate you taking your time to clear all this stuff up...
this is a link to one of those test kits that supposedly test how many UGs are on tabs and what not. i just did a reddit question about it cause i saw about it a couple weeks ago and forgot the name... the person that commented said it is new and it might not even be accurate https://www.miraculix-lab.de/en/faq-lsd scroll down on the page to the part about "Color Series LSD Q Test"
unodelacosa
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I really don't. You're stubborn and tedious, and I really have lost all interest in trying to share knowledge with you. I'm writing this purely for the sake of the forum, nothing to do with you personally. It's a shame you seem closed-minded to what I've been saying, and that you think I care about arguing with you, but whatever.
The feds are rarely involved in what exactly? Because you're out of your mind if you think the DEA rarely get involved in drug cases.
Why? If you live in the US, then laws in the UK and EU don't affect you, so what point are you making with this?
Ok. And? Same question as above.
You don't know what you're talking about. Federal prison is about 55% drug offenders compared to 17% in the states prison systems, roughly. It isn't the size of the case, it's whether the feds have jurisdiction.
There are also instances in which it is next to impossible to get out from under mandatory minimum sentencing and the vast majority of the time, federal judges stick to the USSG's recommendation for sentencing. When I was sentenced twenty-something years ago, this was not an option.
Hey thanks a lot, @foodcrisis. It's good to know someone appreciates it at least (ahem, @Jnowhere).
Thanks for sharing the link. I had not seen the site until today. Please don't place your faith in those Qtests as though they're really all that accurate. They're not. First, they have you eyeballing the process of cutting a tab in half. Then later you're expected to visually identify the shade of blue in the solution and correlate it subjectively to a color-coded legend of drug concentration. What a crock of shit. This industry is so shysty.
Fortunately, LSD doesn't have any kind of sharp incline into lethal dose territory, so there's not much worth worrying about on that front. LSD is relatively safe when used as directed.Last edited:
dosesfromcinco
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I had a really bad time OD'ing on 3-meo-pcp one time.
The buddy I was hanging out with (has since passed, RIP Charlie) was a certified psychonaut, he had an old roommate that ended up passing away and had a crazy headstash box, pretty much everything was labeled except for this one vial of white crystals. After depleting most of the rest of the stash and getting down to the unlabeled vial, he had just assumed it was an amphetamine or maybe Ket so he said fuck it and snorted about a tenth of a gram to try it out. Turns out it was crystal LSA. Dude spent a few days naked in a bathtub watching the same show over and over (cant remember the name atm)
So let's just say when you're around this guy, chances are you're gonna party harder than you usually do.
Me and him had been partying throughout the afternoon on the 3meo, then we got invited out to the bars with a bunch of other homies, anyways, we're all hanging out smoking in a friends basement while we wait for everyone to get there and then head to the bars. This group of friends had been known to be down to do some K or coke, so i figured fuck it, I'll break out a line of 3meo for everyone here (without asking anyone) and everyone pussed out except me and Charlie. So me being already way higher than I should have been to be going out in public, scraped all 10-15 lines into 2 big ass lines and we did them (probably 200mg a piece and 20-25mg would normally be considered a heavy dose) but I was so high when I was putting out the lines I didn't realize how stupid I was being. The ride to the bar was the craziest spaceship ride I've ever been on, my memory is sort of spotty for some parts of the night as I believe I was sort of going in and out of consciousness. While inside the bar I could not stop just walking around in a big circle, just takin laps around a set of tables, my vision was so distorted that I couldn't make out friend from foe and was basically just looping. A friend noticed me making a scene after a bit and took me outside and put me in the car to calm down, after he left I had gone in and out of consciousness and when I came back to it I was all freaked out about where my friends were etc. There's an alleyway behind the bar where you park at, but there's a bunch of different bars and businesses along this strip of buildings. I started yanking on the door handle to what I thought was the bar, but it was locked. Sober me would have been like "Oh, wrong door." Well that's not what I thought at the time, I was like "These motherfuckers locked me out of the bar?" So I end up dislocating my shoulder in the process of pulling on the door (torn rotator cuff and labrum so didnt take much.) Normally I could just relocate it myself in a few seconds, maybe 10. In the state I was in several minutes had gone by and I couldnt figure out how to get it to pop back, and a group of people was walking by and saw me struggling and in pain and offered to help. They ended up calling an ambulance for me even as I asked them not to because dude was too drunk to help me relocate it. Doctors said I was nearly in Kidney Failure and they were considering Dialysis. My urine test came back for PCP and they started asking me if I was homeless lol. Ended up losing like $1500 in cash, not sure if it was stolen by hospital staff, or if someone robbed me when I wasn't conscious. I had like 3 ex girlfriends all come see me in the hospital I was like who is organizing this shit, two of them had to have passed each other in the hallway. Knocked a lil somethin off the bucket list while I was in there, might as well lmao. I will say that I had some pretty wild visions during my time stuck in that parking lot behind the bar, I remember looking over the entire area from on top of a building it felt like, and a few different perspectives at that. No clue how long I was out there unsupervised lol.
MXE has always been my favorite dissociative though. The OG sandy stuff that was like light tan. Man those were the days.Last edited:
