Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine Mega Thread and FAQ v17.0 + v18.0

[Lucas23]

I've been messing around with my Suboxone dosage: taking as much at 4mgs and as little as 1mg per day for the last five months. When I try to level off at 1 or 1.5mgs I usually get a day or two into it and feel an incredible mental pressure to take 2mg more usually later in the day (I always take my subs first thing in the morning). I'll make up little excuses like, "Boy I feel sluggish today" or "I want to have energy when I work out".

So I've had some decent success over the last week leveling off at 2mgs. Today I took 1mg at 7am and plan to take another 1mg at 7pm. I'll do this for another two days then drop the night time dose and level off at 1mg.

1mg will keep me stable as I continue to work through my recovery. Is anyone else struggling with this same kind of thing? Knowing that you do in fact want to be on Suboxone but wanting to be more "in control" of the dosing? Making up excuses to take more when its probably not even making much of a difference? Well, I know people are because I read the posts in this thread. And just to be clear, I understand the ceiling effect and have not taken more than 4mgs per day for over a year.

Not sure what the long term plan is. I do eventually want to get off subs but there's no rush. Just really hoping to stabilize my dosage and stop making excuses.

 

[Tommyboy]

Anyone know if my tolerance to oxy will have gone down at all after using 4mg suboxone a day? Last time I used was 2 months ago or so, but it was h and the h around here is shit. I used 7 bags I believe and was only kinda buzzed. I've only used about 6 times in the last 3 months though, most of them at the beginning of that period. My old oxy tolerance before bupe was about 400 mg. Not exactly per day... I usually only used the 400 mg a day because it was all I could afford, but I used it all at once to have any chance of a decent high.

I would say that most people find that stabilizing on 2mg of suboxone will lower their tolerance, 4mg will keep it about the same, and 8mg might raise it. Those figures aren't accurate for everybody that starts suboxone though as people have varying tolerances, but if you take a look at opioid conversion charts you can get a better idea of where your suboxone dosage stacks up to oxycodone.

1mg of suboxone = 28mg of oxycodone
Keep in mind that suboxone has a ceiling dose for its analgesic effects somewhere around 6mg so taking 16mg won't feel like 480mg of oxycodone but its ceiling dose is not for all of its properties so it may still be raising your tolerance when you take doses higher than the ceiling dose despite you not feeling its effects more.

Anyway, if we are rounding up to 30mg to make it easier then at 4mg of sub you are taking the equivalent of 120mg of oxy. That should mean that even at 8mg you would still be taking less than the dosage of oxy you needed to get high, but I have found that suboxone raises tolerance to more than its equivalent in oxycodone probably since its long half-life means that the drug is in you for longer than oxy, so where a single dose of 120mg of oxy is only in you for a few hours its equivalent in suboxone [4mg] would be like having that 120mg in you for a much longer period, hence the differences in tolerance for dosages that are seemingly equivalent.

I'm not going to glorify this Sub, but it saved my life. Three years ago, after doing 160mg of roxi some days and 80mg of oxymorphone others, I was given it in rehab and tapered down in one week. After I got home, it was about four months that I really started craving again, so the Dr. gave me a 1 month supply after some test. I learned how to break down the strip, so now I just keep it on hand to use if I feel cravings coming on.

If you don't know how to break this down properly, you will puke like a drunken sailor .. ugh, the nausea. I also had hella migraines if I took too much.
And don't even try to use while on it, which I'm sure most of you know, waste of drug and hella withdrawals after the sub wears down.
Oh and the crying jags lol. I'd cry over commercials. I guess that was because my emotions were numb for so long.

I've been on a steady clean path for three years now with only one relapse last may for a few days after the death of a loved one.

xoxo

What do you mean about breaking down the strip?

So this is my second time trying suboxone taper, my first time I used 25 hours later and went into PW, I convinced myself I didn't but now I know I did after waiting 36 hours after heroin use this time and using 8mg and it is working. My question is how I should do the taper? Here are my planned options, also open to other options. (Note: I have to start at 8 because I already have taken that dose, and needed it, I kept taking 2 mg every hour till it worked. I still feel pretty shitty but noticly better than before, I was thinking option 1 because I wanna make sure I'm stablized before tapering down, and any opinions would be highly appreciated.

( 6 Day Dose Options)

1.) 8mg, 8mg, 4mg, 2mg, 1mg, .5mg
or
2.) 8mg, 4mg, 2mg, 1mg, .5mg, .25mg

?

I would go with option 2, but on day 2 take 3mg in the morning and 1mg at night, then split the dose between morning and night the next 2 days, then the last 2 doses are probably too small to make it worth the trouble to split.

 

[ZiaZia]

@Tommyboy
What do you mean about breaking down the strip?


Bah, southern slang .. I meant cutting my 8mg strip, not breaking down. It's a 8/2mg strip which I cut the way the Dr. taught me, and then take it. For some reason my insurance will only pay for the 8mg strips, so I can't get the 2mg ones.

 

[Slum Survivor]

I hate having to cut my strips down like u all are talking about. I have to cut down the 8mg strips to 1mg at least. Sometimes, like lately, I have to re dose later in the day and when I do that I have to cut an already small peice of 1mg further. Sucks when I screw up cutting or mess up a peice somehow. Any tips

I like being at the low dose, many positives to it. Just sux how I seem to get w/d's after my morning dose eventually. Like say I take it at 9am usually end up feeling pretty crappy by 8-9 pm . Sometimes sooner. I believe my benzo habit has an effect on it too. Certain benzos help, sux that xanax is all u ever see around here as it seems to help less than say etizolam, clonazepam, and diazepam do to counter act actmy w/d symptoms.
I was reading some info on bupe from a study, forget where. Was a good one too, it see
med. Talked about using the bupe in an alcohol solution too showing the increase in BA%. This study claimed that at low enough doses the length of action didn't last as long. Even when stable for a while at a low dose.
I'm pretty sure that's why I start getting w/d's way before id expect with the long half-life. I hate this. Its been a big cause of my relapses, the last one almost killing me/caused permanent damage and pain.

Anyone else at low doses get early w/d's so to speak?

 

[JackiePeyton]

I hate having to cut my strips down like u all are talking about. I have to cut down the 8mg strips to 1mg at least. Sometimes, like lately, I have to re dose later in the day and when I do that I have to cut an already small peice of 1mg further. Sucks when I screw up cutting or mess up a peice somehow. Any tips

I like being at the low dose, many positives to it. Just sux how I seem to get w/d's after my morning dose eventually. Like say I take it at 9am usually end up feeling pretty crappy by 8-9 pm . Sometimes sooner. I believe my benzo habit has an effect on it too. Certain benzos help, sux that xanax is all u ever see around here as it seems to help less than say etizolam, clonazepam, and diazepam do to counter act actmy w/d symptoms.
I was reading some info on bupe from a study, forget where. Was a good one too, it see
med. Talked about using the bupe in an alcohol solution too showing the increase in BA%. This study claimed that at low enough doses the length of action didn't last as long. Even when stable for a while at a low dose.
I'm pretty sure that's why I start getting w/d's way before id expect with the long half-life. I hate this. Its been a big cause of my relapses, the last one almost killing me/caused permanent damage and pain.

Anyone else at low doses get early w/d's so to speak?

Yes, I used to get early w/d's like that. Benzos mess with it totally. They actually will potentiate whatever is in your system for a time and just create more problems. I have been through this cycle. These drug cocktails make a mess of things. Best I can say is keep all the other drugs at the same dose while you taper so you aren't experiencing the ups and downs. I tried the alchohol thing, just use a little mouthwash before you dose if you are running low, otherwise it is a waste of time. If you keep on a stable dose, you won't keep suffering withdrawals in the pm. And why are you cutting up 8mg strips when they have 2mg strips. I think they have 4 now too.

 

[Slum Survivor]

Yes, I used to get early w/d's like that. Benzos mess with it totally. They actually will potentiate whatever is in your system for a time and just create more problems. I have been through this cycle. These drug cocktails make a mess of things. Best I can say is keep all the other drugs at the same dose while you taper so you aren't experiencing the ups and downs. I tried the alchohol thing, just use a little mouthwash before you dose if you are running low, otherwise it is a waste of time. If you keep on a stable dose, you won't keep suffering withdrawals in the pm.
And why are you cutting up 8mg strips when they have 2mg strips. I think they have 4 now too.

I think its common... I only get the 8mg strips, for.a few reasons, mainly because of cost/dr choice. I pay cash for my subs. They throw 120 strips my way each visit, even when telling them I'm on a much lower dose than what they give me... I still get 8's. Cheapest route anyhow.

The alcohol thing... I've been talking about my use of it if it could be found easily. I clean my mouth with hot water, place the peice/strip under tongue, and then put a small amount of vodka in my mouth before putting my tongue down and closing my mouth. It can be unplesant for a few seconds, with the sting from the alcohol, but it subsides quickly (as long as u use a reasonable amount, I use the cap on a half pint, and only put about 1/2 or less of the cap's worth in my mouth.

I've done this for months now... it does help raise B/A%. I originally did it to help lower how much/many subs I use. I noticed the increase using the alcohol vs no alcohol for sure. At the very most id say it typically doubles the B/A%. When done properly anyways. Always spit it out too... I would still spit my sub saliva out w/o alcohol. A dr I had explained for me not swallow the saliva ever anyways. I forget his exact reason...

I meant tho... even when stable at my 1mg I tend to withdraw about 12 + hours later, sometimes sooner.

And yes I know the benzos effect this. Etizolam, diazepam, and clonazepam work great to counter-act these early w/d's. Alprazolam doesn't help nearly as well, I'm starting to not like xanax. I mainly use etiz now that obama care/my general dr office screwed up my clonazepam script. I'm sure etiz short action isn't the greatest. Would love to have access to the other two I mentioned... not easy tho.

So u suggest getting off subs before benzo tapering?
Id geuss the other way around myself. I have no idea how long I'll be staying on subs. I'm fairly relapse-prone w/o it. Wish I could switch to methadone honestly... I know that's a whole other subject tho, I'm just in a lot of pain and am trying to get my life together. Subs are only helping so much... so I sometimes wonder if done would help get me going again and give me my life back.
I'm wondering if anyone on low dose sub w/d's early like I do? Even when stable at that dose. I know many low dosers that dose multiple times a day, perhaps that's why?

 

[sunhouse76]

Hi im very new to this site and cant fined how to post something id relly like to know. Iv been and addict for 20 years and this time around iv been on methadone for about 8 years or more. Iv got down to 30mil but i want to go onto subutex but i cant wait 36 hours. I know you may say this is not a good idea but im thinking about it and it would be done under supervision. But if i was to not take my meth on the day i want start and took a little heroin to ease the pain through the day. Would it work if i was to just have a small amount to ease things a little. im just wondering about how long i would have to go with out and the time thing if doing it this way. would it be wait 36 hours and then another 8 after the last small peace of heroin?
I hope im not braking rules asking this. Sorry if i am but i really need some help.
Cheers

 

[Captain.Heroin]

I would wait 24 hours after last dose of heroin.

Best of luck in your transition onto suboxone.

 

[Mr.Scagnattie]

Hi im very new to this site and cant fined how to post something id relly like to know. Iv been and addict for 20 years and this time around iv been on methadone for about 8 years or more. Iv got down to 30mil but i want to go onto subutex but i cant wait 36 hours. I know you may say this is not a good idea but im thinking about it and it would be done under supervision. But if i was to not take my meth on the day i want start and took a little heroin to ease the pain through the day. Would it work if i was to just have a small amount to ease things a little. im just wondering about how long i would have to go with out and the time thing if doing it this way. would it be wait 36 hours and then another 8 after the last small peace of heroin?
I hope im not braking rules asking this. Sorry if i am but i really need some help.
Cheers

Doing the H in between, isn't going to change anything.. the methadone will still be in your system, and with its long half-life, that is what would cause you PW's if you don't wait long enough. If anything, doing H in between will just make you need to wait even longer.

If you really want to get on bupe, you have to do it right, and unfortunately.. that comes with a little bit of suffering. Take your last dose of methadone, and wait until you are sick enough to dose the bupe. It'll probably be even longer than 36 hours. Even if not, methadone to bupe transitions (even if coming off a lower dose of methadone) are shitty. It will take you a few days even after starting the bupe to really begin to feel good, and that's just how it is. Using anything in between, will just screw it all up and you'll have to start over again.

So, do it right the first time, that way you don't have to do it again.

Good luck and be patient.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

^ definitely listen to Mr. Scagnattie.

 

[Slum Survivor]

^^^Gawd... I remember when I decided to get high before starting subs. I ended up waiting 40+ hours before I was able to dose the sub w/o worry of PW's. I've been stupid enough to give myself full blown PW's from dosing sub too early.

The wait is better than the PW's and dysphoria, which REALLY suck. Hope that helps. These two above are right for sure. Resist the dope. Good luck too.


Btw I ended up dosing another .5mg yesterday(w/vodka for BA% as always) a few hours after my usual 1mg. It did seem to help prevent my late w/d's.

Reason I say this... I wonder if I just should be at 1.5mg once daily or if I just need to dose twice daily when I'm at 1mg. I know stability is important with bupe dosing, which makes me want dose only once daily. Ugh I'm just tired of w/d's. Any input?

 

[Zerrr]

Did you recover okay Slum?

Hope everyone is doing well..

 

[Slum Survivor]

Ugh I had a msg typed and deleted it.

I'm ok , thx. Just trying to avoid w/d's between my daily sub doses. Hence my posts in here. Got some bad storms over here whew!

Yeah Z.... my foot is just still bothering me, i think I may have flared up a previous fracture/injury in my incident tho. 10+ year old injury, only now having issues with it.

 

[CorneliusDutchman]

How long without suboxone until opiates will work?

Some background, I have been on Suboxone 8mg/2mg twice a day since Thanksgiving 2013. I am a 140 pound 6 foot male with a fairly fast metabolism.
Now, my question is how long would I have to be off suboxone until the bupe and nalaxone is out of my system and I will be able to feel heroin?

I'm not the junkie I was when I started and I'm not looking for judgements, only answers to my question so please do not preach to me. All I want is to have a brief break so I can maybe sniff a bag or two, maybe give plugging it a try, just have some nodstalgia

 

[ladianios]

Well my opinion with the amount u have been on which is too high for the length u have been on I would say a good 4-5 days to get FULL effect of an soa but by then u will be in WD from the sub so I suspect you will dose earlier.... u may feel a slight tickle after two days or so of no sub but not much I would suspect

 

[Mr.Scagnattie]

At least a few days.

This question has been asked quite literally 5000 times and could have easily been found out from a simple search. Just going to move this to the bupe mega as another "how long till I can get high?" topic hardly needs another whole thread dedicated to it.

 

[Eveleivibe]

WOW!!! Since I've reduced from 12 mg to 100 mg it's like I 've had a new least of life. I've got so much energy flowing through me it's like electricity. I just feel hyped. I 'm back exercising again. I'm starting to feel alive n the weight is dropping off- so my metabolism must be speeding up again.

Wow just ACE!!!! I thought you didn't feel any effects by reducing suboxone by only 2mg but well I have. I keep singing, dancing round the room n stuff!

Is this normal??? It's like I'm stepping out of some heavy fog that wS weighing me down n I've electricity flowing through me. But that's how I felt when I was doing intensive exercise like INSANITY.

Can any of you tell me your effects when reducing subs? Did the /mg drop affect you in either a positive or negative way?

Evey

 

[rolls_]

WOW!!! Since I've reduced from 12 mg to 100 mg it's like I 've had a new least of life. I've got so much energy flowing through me it's like electricity. I just feel hyped. I 'm back exercising again. I'm starting to feel alive n the weight is dropping off- so my metabolism must be speeding up again.

Wow just ACE!!!! I thought you didn't feel any effects by reducing suboxone by only 2mg but well I have. I keep singing, dancing round the room n stuff!

Is this normal??? It's like I'm stepping out of some heavy fog that wS weighing me down n I've electricity flowing through me. But that's how I felt when I was doing intensive exercise like INSANITY.

Can any of you tell me your effects when reducing subs? Did the /mg drop affect you in either a positive or negative way?

Evey

During withdrawal from sub eg doing a 4-2mg drop I always got huge rushes of norepinephrine which gave me cold sweats but brief bouts of euphoria especialyl when listening to music, hair would stand on end with goosebumps, felt almost like an e/meth comeup, would last 5-10 minutes each time, similar to the euphoric rush you get when doing intense weights/cardio and you pass that barrier, awesome feeling, lasts about a week then you feel normal.

electricity is the best way to describe this feeling, it also come with cons, sometimes youll just get the hot sweats in your lower back without the buzz, the yawns etc and you feel really letharic, generally this goes away, when you get down to 0.6mg etc the single dose doesn't even last 24 hours so you get more yawns etc until you finally drop off completely.

But yes reducing dose after being on maintenance at a high level is great, you feel emotions and get joy from normal things, at higher levels it floods your receptors and you just feel a numb buzz, at lower levels you enjoy life again.

 

[Lucas23]

WOW!!! Since I've reduced from 12 mg to 100 mg it's like I 've had a new least of life. I've got so much energy flowing through me it's like electricity. I just feel hyped. I 'm back exercising again. I'm starting to feel alive n the weight is dropping off- so my metabolism must be speeding up again.

Wow just ACE!!!! I thought you didn't feel any effects by reducing suboxone by only 2mg but well I have. I keep singing, dancing round the room n stuff!

Is this normal??? It's like I'm stepping out of some heavy fog that wS weighing me down n I've electricity flowing through me. But that's how I felt when I was doing intensive exercise like INSANITY.

Can any of you tell me your effects when reducing subs? Did the /mg drop affect you in either a positive or negative way?

Evey

Evey,

I bet what you're feeling is half mental and half physical. I tapered from 16mgs to 1mg over an eight month period and felt periods of electricity and slight euphoria. But not very often. I felt HUGE pride in myself for following my regiment and tapering without getting distracted. I felt much more in control of my life. It was this that helped me feel amazing but I wouldn't call it electric.

Maybe I wasn't on 16mgs for long enough but I never felt in a fog or sapped of energy or anything else that folks describe. I actually felt GREAT on 16mgs because my oxycodone intake had gotten so ridiculously huge that I was basically in withdrawal 22 hours a day with slight one hours periods of feeling "normal" after taking it. But that's what 400mgs a day will do to you.

Either way you should be proud of your accomplishment. You'll be down to 4mgs in no time.

 

[CorneliusDutchman]

At least a few days.

This question has been asked quite literally 5000 times and could have easily been found out from a simple search. Just going to move this to the bupe mega as another "how long till I can get high?" topic hardly needs another whole thread dedicated to it.

My apologies, I know that this is a question that get's asked a lot. I only made a thread for it because on other forums I use whenever I ask a question in a mega thread it gets lost in other posts and I never receive an answer.

As for ladianois, 4-5 days sounds about right I suppose since I've been on it for so long, and I have a hell of a lot of xanax to hold me over during w/d's so I think I can last 4-5 days. Thanks for the input