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What is wrong with the MDMA available today?

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If the author is european theres no rule in their grant for access but they usually give the article in the spirit of cooperation

My experience with MDMA is purely with ecstasy pills and have not tried what I currenttly have

What I have is light chanpaigne colored and not as brown as what Ive seen in ads.

my MDA is pure white with beautiful crystals

I am thinking about getting a lifetime supply of MDMA, Incase the markets all die, and so i dont have to ever worry about getting it. I have seen white crystals from brown Dutch product that has been acetone washed and recrystallized. Was thinking of getting it.
Or just 10-14 grams ans cleaning it my self.


Scatterday: do you have a percent yield on your recrystallization protocol? It could tell me a bit about its worth
 
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My yield was mentioned above. It was performed on a champagne to clear white crystalline mdma.

Therefore the product was the most unadulterated to MDMA begin with. I'd like to say in terms of isomer ratio's it feels very amp like.

Though the washed product brought me a therapeutic experience I can never forget.
 
I found it. You didnt weight it before and after? When you say that it was 85%, assuming that is the final product. Would this be in terms of MDMA HCL? So 85% was MDMA HCl and 15% was unknown impurity?

If so, like I said, doing multiple recrystallizations is usually the standard, the more you do the more pure you can get. I might even have tried to do two or three total and see if you can get the purity into the 90s.
 
Is it worth it to do the wash with say only a few hundred milligrams of product? It's not very good, but I don't want to ruin what I do have...
 
I was told some time back directly from an online MDMA chemist that the perfect combination for an ecstasy pill consisted of combinations of mdma, mda and amphetamine sulphate. That's where you would get your "smacky pills" MDMA heavy and the amphetamine containing "speedy" MDMA pills.

Can't recall the dosages correctly but if I can roughly guess it was 90-100mg MDMA, 25-35mg MDA and some amphetamine sulphate.

Although the recipe does look delicious. But in my experiences that date back round 90's. We have a good testing and warning system regarding pills in general.
I dare to assert I had "smacky and speedy" pills that contained only MDMA as active ingredient. only difference the actual dosage, MDA was very very rare then.
 
I'm 100% in agreement with you scatterday. It would be super interesting to try the stuff they are using in the MAPS trials. i bet they do not use safrole as a precursor and I also bet that it doesn't have the same intensity that the stuff I had in the the 80s did (how would you honestly maintain in a therapy session anyway. T\he thought makes me smile.)
This reminds me of a few experiences with me and some others had with capsule's of MDMA that was made secretely in an official lab by an chemist. It was promoted as top knotch stuff, not even close to the commercially available pills. Which were with a few exceptions MDMA in differing dosages.

The weird thing about this powder, testing confirmed it was MDMA. It resembled the experience of the pills but differt on a few points.
-very gradual come up and slower waves then most pills and gradual comedown.
-way less morish.
-more psychedelic less euphoric.

Didn't like it though but seems like it would be the better choice for therapeutic settings.
 
I found it. You didnt weight it before and after? When you say that it was 85%, assuming that is the final product. Would this be in terms of MDMA HCL? So 85% was MDMA HCl and 15% was unknown impurity?

If so, like I said, doing multiple recrystallizations is usually the standard, the more you do the more pure you can get. I might even have tried to do two or three total and see if you can get the purity into the 90s.

It's impossible to reach above 89% purity because the rest of the compound is made up of a salt pr something from what I remember the chemist telling me.

When you hear 89% purity it means 100% purity, It was something that prevents it being washed past 89% if I recall correctly.

I did weigh and lost a percentage or two of by-products/contamination because the MDMA was as clean as you can get it.

As I was saying it was purchased as 85% purity but lost little from the wash maybe a percent or two raising the purity to 87-88 which is perfect because my recrystalization was as clear as shattered glass or clear ice which was good enough for me to consume and provide and enlightening and therapeutic dose.

NOTE-

If you wash your product expect to consume less depending on the product lost from the wash due to the purity you have created.
 
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Although the recipe does look delicious. But in my experiences that date back round 90's. We have a good testing and warning system regarding pills in general.
I dare to assert I had "smacky and speedy" pills that contained only MDMA as active ingredient. only difference the actual dosage, MDA was very very rare then.

MDA may have been rare but the metabloziation of MDMA>MDA in your liver has always been a known and proven scientific fact.

Amphetamine present within the pills will be noticable because it adds duration to the experience from my understanding and also increases sexual libido which may have been responsible for my sexual desires on MDMA back in the 2000's and the inability to sleep afterwards.

Cannabis was always our ultimate comedown drug which potentiated the experience and lengthened the duration.

Inability to sleep was also another reasoning why this chemist was correct with his shared information.

If I may quote him from memory he said something similar to" This combination was popular among chemists and it would keep you up and dancing all night, Social instead of being couch locked all night."
 
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Is it worth it to do the wash with say only a few hundred milligrams of product? It's not very good, but I don't want to ruin what I do have...

If you can get more sure why not. Try a pre and post wash experience and you'll notice the difference. Try the washed product first then the unwashed.
 
It's impossible to reach above 89% purity because the rest of the compound is made up of a salt pr something from what I remember the chemist telling me.

When you hear 89% purity it means 100% purity, It was something that prevents it being washed past 89% if I recall correctly.

I did weigh and lost a percentage or two of by-products/contamination because the MDMA was as clean as you can get it.

As I was saying it was purchased as 85% purity but lost little from the wash maybe a percent or two raising the purity to 87-88 which is perfect because my recrystalization was as clear as shattered glass or clear ice which was good enough for me to consume and provide and enlightening and therapeutic dose.

NOTE-

If you wash your product expect to consume less depending on the product lost from the wash due to the purity you have created,.

Yeah thats what Im getting at.
You cant get above 84ish% MDMA base in MDMA HCl.
So what you probably had was around 75-80mdma base. And after your washes got it up to closer to 84%

If you are talking in mdma hcl, which is how chemists tend to notate these things, you may have been up in the 85?95% pure at the end

With the exact mass of the before and after this could be calculated a little better but not completely without the chemists numbers
 
MDA may have been rare but the metabloziation of MDMA>MDA in your liver has always been a known and proven scientific fact.

I am aware of that proces, not when I was ingesting pills in the pre internet era. And taking them in numbersgoing up to the ten, in a weekend. That's when my own personal chemistry fabric starts producing noticable ammounts of MDA. But even then no way nearing the effects of those two times my MDMA was either replaced or complemented with MDA.

So from a harm reduction perspective I advise against in vitro formation of MDA through ingestion of MDMA. As the ammount needed is ridiculous.

Amphetamine present within the pills will be noticable because it adds duration to the experience from my understanding and also increases sexual libido which may have been responsible for my sexual desires on MDMA back in the 2000's and the inability to sleep afterwards. Cannabis was always our ultimate comedown drug which potentiated the experience and lengthened the duration.

Inability to sleep was also another reasoning why this chemist was correct with his shared information.

If I may quote him from memory he said something similar to" This combination was popular among chemists and it would keep you up and dancing all night, Social instead of being couch locked all night."


Most, probably all, pills I have taken were free of Amphetamines that's just how it is over here. If you want speed you buy speed and take it alongside your X. And for a lot of people, including myself, MDMA perk's sexual desires and causes inabillity to sleep.

But the recipe still seems delicious althoug a lot of peolple would rather have the Amphetamines seperate. I would. So a MDA/ MDMA combo will be fine with some 5 mg dexamphetamin pills to take as needed. Never had thatt couch lock till later on, I used to dance all night on MDMA and weed.
 
Most, probably all, pills I have taken were free of Amphetamines that's just how it is over here. If you want speed you buy speed and take it alongside your X. And for a lot of people, including myself, MDMA perk's sexual desires and causes inabillity to sleep.

But the recipe still seems delicious although a lot of people would rather have the Amphetamines separate. I would. So a MDA/ MDMA combo will be fine with some 5 mg dextroamphetamine pills to take as needed. Never had that couch lock till later on, I used to dance all night on MDMA and weed.

The sleeplessness is an indication of amphetamine being present within the pill as is the minor sexual desires as a result of MDMA because it is an antagonist to your 5-HT receptors although MDMA it's self is considered a psychedelic amphetamine,

Which hardly anyone consuming clean product has trouble sleeping on (Refer to pillreports/user reports).

Where as dopamine which is strongly affected by amphetamines is released creating the urge for sexual desires flooding dopeamine into your synapses even more than MDMA potentially potentiating the high. Users claim IV'ing amphetamines gives them strong sexual desires and some users even report ejaculating upon consumption. I personally am against strictly IV'ing narcotics but at the end of the day I'm here for harm reduction so it's my responsibility to look after these users.

I tend to get extreme sexual desires on a clean methamphetamine high but the comedown is horrid.

I've also noticed the after effects feel different now which is indicative of adulterants such as amphetamine and caffeine present within the pills. This is why I don't use methamphetamine but a washed product may produce different results.

Minor sexual desires are in fact a result of consuming MDMA but the sleeplessness and strong sexual desires indicates there may have been amphetamine present within the pills because when I others and myself consume clean/washed/tested MDMA I have no trouble sleeping afterwards though since the safrole treaty was signed and piperanol is the new precursor I don't get those oldschool urges anymore. Maybe something is inhibiting the release of multiple neurotransmitters and hormones which I believe meth or another adulterant is responsible for this.

Who knows after this long honestly though it's just a guessing game at this point unfortunately. But to my knowledge there must have been some form of amphetamine present within the pills as you claimed you were dancing all night and had trouble sleeping at the end of the night. When I take clean MDMA I'm a couch potato and don't have the urge to dance and can sleep like a baby all night (Then again this leads back to the quality of the product and old synthesis)

All I remember is shaking hands, Kissing and hugging friends from old school ecstasy.

Amphetamine contained within ecstasy is plausible because in fact a lot of chemists used to synthesize the MDMA and add amphetamine to it to increase the potential for physical addiction. It's cheap, Easy to synthesisze and chemists know addiction= $$

The magic is not gone folks. Lets find the solution because around 2008 when the safrole treaty was signed the MDMA feeling we all love and cherish has changed which can be found via pillreports.

Not going to argue here just trying to explain things from my side of the story.

People often wonder why MDMA has changed and a simple wash with some MDA and amphetamine may be the missing links. (Try not to overdo things and tamper with dosages, (As I say less is more)

Take a read of the feedback from one of my most enjoyable ecstasy experiences with these purple crowns and various other ecstasy tablets and take note of the comments... 90% of those comments were positive and mention inability to sleep, racing heart and the urge to dance (Speedy rushes) along with positive reagent test results for amphetamine.

Reagent tested. unadulterated MDMA alone produces no urge to get up and dance for me. This is the same for everyone I've spoken too.

I honestly believe it's just 1 pill I need to try from the early to mid 2000's era to confirm this and send off to edata for analysis or even a local laboratory I sent a xanax off to who will be informing me of everything inside the tablet whether it be quantity of substances present within the pill, analogues, adulterants or by-products, Which is something edata cannot provide. Quantity information.

I just don't get that energetic, empathetic or euphoric anymore and isomers are not to blame. It's either synthesis/precursors or substances they were pressing them with. As I was saying methamphetamine potentiates the roll (Not trying to endorse methamphetamine/speed usage)

Here are some more examples of notable ecstasy back in the day and I know something isn't right with the substances present within the pills and/or the synthesis currently. Unlike how the users below a speedy/gear feeling which is indicative to the test results.

My comprehensive roll report will be uploaded with some washed MDMA and amphetamine to identify if I can obtain the old school feeling again. Could it even be slight traces of caffeine within the pills allowing us to experience what we did?

My money has it on amphetamine because the chemists knew safrole was in short supply, hard to obtain and harder to synthesise and with the treaty upcoming they had to get users hooked to methamphetamine which by analytical data was proven in Australia in 2008 on weeekends when the MDMA didn't feel the same and wasn't available. Chemists were well aware of this too.

Maybe the chemists have found a way to disguise the results or are simply not adding amphetamine anymore because the reagent test results looks different and react different to how we test pills now not to mention there has been a huge meth incline in since the treaty for safrole was established and it's cheaper to make MDMA without amphetamine so why bother?

Amphetamine definitely potentiates the roll and gives it legs. There is documented evidence here in the reports below. Potentially some caffeine too?

There was definitely some kind of stimulant in my era of consuming MDMA other than MDMA. Whether it be MDA, Amphetamines or caffeine. I only wish more of these pills were sent off to edata for analysis.


https://pillreports.net/index.php?page=display_pill&id=15610 (One of the strongest pills I've had to date despite the user report. Was warned they were strong from the dealer and still double dropped despite my stupidity. Ended up bringing 2 girls back to mine for a orgy. Was either the domed ones or the one in the report linked)
https://pillreports.net/index.php?page=display_pill&id=12772 (The very first pill I ever took and felt noticeable effects from. Fantastic and couldn't have expected anything better.)
https://pillreports.net/index.php?page=display_pill&id=12863 (One of my all time favourites, Strong sexual desires, Strong empathy and euphoria)
https://pillreports.net/index.php?page=display_pill&id=15681 (Very memorable and enjoyable night)
https://pillreports.net/index.php?page=display_pill&id=10851 (Smacky based not as great as the rest from memory.)
https://pillreports.net/index.php?page=display_pill&id=13891 (Great pill and as you can see by the discussion reagent results indicate the prescience of amphetamine aka "gear" Australian slang. We just need to identify what kind of amphetamine was used whether it was meth or dexro or potentially even something else)
https://pillreports.net/index.php?page=display_pill&id=14714 (Great clean pills, Potentially some MDA present in the mixture because I was getting mild hallucinations, Increased libido and energy)
https://pillreports.net/index.php?page=display_pill&id=15386 (Clean with no amphetamine present just a general nice sense of well being, euphoria and empathy. Lots of D&M's with people, A little on the weak side slept fine afterwards)
https://pillreports.net/index.php?page=display_pill&id=8172 (An interesting experience on these, Mild hallucinogenic effects though clean experience overal)
https://pillreports.net/index.php?page=display_pill&id=27970 (Here's another all time favourite, These were sent off to edata for analysis.)
https://pillreports.net/index.php?page=display_pill&id=30218 (A report published by my own confirming there was amphetamine present within the pills. Specifically methamphetamine as one user begins to describe his results from his reagent test. As you can see the dimensions of the other yellow handicap are different so they're most likely different batches. Ended up consuming these and had a blast.)
https://pillreports.net/index.php?page=display_pill&id=13044 (Always have reagent tested my pills, Guess I got lucky with a good batch, Extremely munty and euphoric.)
https://pillreports.net/index.php?page=display_pill&id=11389 (Clean pills, Very smacky indicating no amphetamine was present other than MDMA.)
https://pillreports.net/index.php?page=display_pill&id=15445 (Most notibaly one of the most speediest pills I've ever had that contained MDMA, Pure bliss and enjoyment. Despite what the report comments say)

It's a shame the chemists making these aren't around anymore because these were the best moments of my life. I made deep connections with friends, We would go for walks, Chat to strangers politely and friendly and receive polite and friendly responses back from people also on the same ecstasy. I don't get many of these psychological and physiological feelings anymore which is saddening.


Even the press looks different in texture compared to the new presses we currently see on the market. I honestly wish I had some stored away for safe keeping's as they were one of my all time favourites. Even note the user was unsure of suspected contents and rating but it sure sounds like MDMA with something else present or a different synthesis.

We'll get to the bottom of this guys and we're onto these chemists. It was most notibly the pills with amphetamine that would keep me awake for hours which induced overwhelming euphoria and empathy.
 
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Scatterday, I have wondered about speed as well, but I am just not convinced that is the only answer.

I sent a lot of pills into Pill Reports. I have taken pills that tested as MDMA and pills that were MDA. None of the pills that I sent in ever tested positive for speed or amphetamine. There were a few occasions where I felt suspicious that there may have been speed in a pill, due to the inability to sleep, but I did not send the pill in for testing. I recall one experience specifically. Regeant test looked fine, but we could not sleep for anything and there was a paranoid edge. I would not consider that experience to be one of the best rolls.

As for sex...

When I first started rolling (2000-2002), I was with someone who was not into E-sex (or regular sex, but that is a whole other story). So, as a result, those rolls focused on other social/emotional interactions. I was more likely to roll at parties then and just talk to people. I felt sexual, but there was not an outlet. Later, from about 2002-2005, I was with someone who was into E-sex. Many of the pills that we consumed were tested and were MDMA according to Pill Reports. They were all regeant tested. We would roll and have sex all night, every time we rolled. It was ridiculous. It transformed ecstasy into something that was completely sexual, to the point that if we were at a party together and planning to hang with friends, we just couldn't, and would have to find some privacy.

The only point that it stopped having that intense sexual vibe was when my supplier quit. The sleepy product I have had access to since then has never been on the same sexual level. But I don't think all the good, sexual pills we took were laced with speed, and pill reports said they were MDMA.

I have tried MDMA/MDA combos since then. Not the same.
I have tried adding caffeine. Not the same.
I have tried adding 24 hour energy. Not the same (but better).

To shed additional light, I will definitely be attempting to purify/crystallize this sleepy stuff, and we will see what happens.
 
We would roll and have sex all night, every time we rolled. It was ridiculous. It transformed ecstasy into something that was completely sexual, to the point that if we were at a party together and planning to hang with friends, we just couldn't, and would have to find some privacy.
Amazing. I thought that MDMA inhibits erections.
 
So sorry I've been away guys, I've been trying to reply so much but with the distractions present it was near impossible.. So much that needs saying but I'm still in recovery mode after all I been up to.

First of all, guys regarding the 84% thing (or any percentage that is around there people often quote) I thought we had nipped that in the bud a long time ago but I'll say it again..

There's no such thing as a max of 84% pure for mdma HCl, max is 99.9999 (and so on..) % just like every other substance. Where people picked this up was a few folks with little chemistry knowledge tried to understand a concept beyond their pay grade..

Essentially when mdma is in its freebase form it is a caustic oil that cannot be consumed easily. MDMA HCl in essence is this freebase mdma attached with an HCl (84% or whatever it is being the mdma and the rest being the HCl). That number varies based on the molecular weight of the acid used to salt the mdma, some acids being heavier. This concept does not indicate in any way that mdma can only max out at 84% and anything beyond that will be an oily substance, that's not how it works.

MDMA HCl is a different substance altogether from mdma freebase, the HCl to the mdma is a molecular bond not an impurity. This isn't the best analogy but think of it like this.. You wouldn't consider salt to only have a maximum of 50% pure sodium.

Now the reason for further confusion comes from some (not all..) labs which use the freebase for their calculations because they don't know the exact salt due to the way they analyze.

And to further grow the myth, Dutch online vendors use the number to sell sub standard purity product since everyone thinks the max is 84 anyways.

Please guys just drop the whole 84-87% thing as it doesn't affect us ever really. MDMA HCl can and does reach 99.9% pure.

-----------------------------------------

On to the possible lasting stimulation being related to MDA or amphetamines. I agree with indigo in that I think most good pills back then were mainly mdma sometimes with a little caffeine. I think the lasting stimulation comes from certain good batches of mdma and also the way it is dosed.

I notice much more stimulation if I redose later on in the experience over earlier. A single dose typically has a much sharper cleaner drop off at the end compared to redoses. Also I think batches with a higher R isomer ratio could be the cause for that longer lasting experience. Or we're looking at an impurity causing it similar to the early 90's mdma.

One more thing is I notice as I get older that stimulation seems less present after the drug has worn off. I would think it's just a difference in mdma but it happens with LSD too now. Whereas back in the day these drugs would keep me up for many hours even when they were dwindling in effect, now I can sometimes fall asleep before everything has fully worn off. It doesn't happen every time but I write that off to getting old.

With that said it sounds like for many of you guys the change in product feels to be the culprit over the whole "getting older" thing for this lack of energy.

Also MDMA has always made me sensual over sexual and while it can sometimes be difficult getting an erection it's not impossible. I love having sex on mdma but I think I still love dancing or conversing on it more. Each to their own I suppose. I personally like casual fooling around on mdma intermixed with conversation, I like to have my dick sucked while trying to tell you about my childhood lol, na not quite.. but you get it. Probably because it's easy to get distracted on mdma..

-GC
 
A chemist online once told me it was impossible to achieve above 89% purirty as a result of a salt that's being used now and you cannot wash the salt out with a solvent wash.

Theoretically 89%=100% pure but i'll have a look into this matter via synthesis routes.

Would love to start sending off some mdma samples locally but it costs a fortune.

220 per test and they're able to publish/identify everything edata cannot via gc/ms.

Already sent my first xanax to see if it's alprazolam or something else.

7-10 day result turnover with full printout copy for your own convenience and assurance.

Asked if they accept paypal as a form of payment and they said yes so if anything goes wrong I get my money back.

It's a well known laboratory within Australia.

The only one i could find with quanitity and comprehensive testing and allowing the customer to see everything.

It was my last option before edata.
 
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^^Interesting! Let us know how it goes with that lab, its expensive but not horribly so in comparison to places like EData.

Also that chemist was wrong.. MDMA HCl (the most common salt form out there) can indeed be "washed" or better said "purified" to above 89% pure. Again it goes back to what I said before, people's misunderstanding of chemistry concepts.

Indeed you cannot "wash off" the molecular bond between the mdma freebase and HCl but again MDMA HCl is a completely different substance altogether and not to be looked at like "mdma with an impurity." MDMA HCl and MDMA Freebase are two different substances with different properties, both can achieve 99.9+% purity.

The fact this "chemist" talked about purifying the final end product via washes shows they know little. If I was an mdma chemist (and I'm not..) I'd do an A/B with the necessary washes along the way then finish off with a fractional distillation of the freebase. (Triple distilled like my favorite whiskey.) I'd then salt it out via HCl gas, and re-X in isopropyl. Then I'd take that and do a slow re-X from dH2O over a few week period. (All reagents used after the distill MUST be ACS grade.) That's how you get 99.99% pure MDMA HCl with crystals as large as can possibly be obtained.

-GC
 
Maybe the purifcations/solvent washes is what made my experience that of an experience that resembles early 2000's.

Would have loved to experiment with some solvent washed mda and amphetamine on the night to see if that was the key.

If that is the case and you're correct we may finally be unlocking the final key of this long mystery.

I was missinformed now and I believe I understand.

In terms of neurochemistry and nehrotransmitters I know just about anything.

Embarassing at the least I listened to this chemist online and proves what kind of people are producing our product on the street.

This dutch mongy mdma is better than none I just want my old mdma back and i'll get it with some washes and meth.

Most probably order some piracetam and 5-htp to prevent neurotoxic damage and increase the roll potential.

Start out with a dose of 110mg mdma or even less with some meth and write that comprehensive errowid report.
 
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G you are right to an extent. The fact that there is a salt does affect the dose.

Any drug when given in the HBr or the HCl salt will need more of the HBr salt version to get the same effect as the HCl due to Bromines molecular weight, the easiest example I can give here is 2CB dosages

The MDMA is not covalently (molecularly) bound to the HCl , but rather its an ionic bond in a crystal lattice. That is probably not what you meant though and Im over complicating it here for this discussion.

The notion when used by dutch MDMA vendors online is marketing and dumb. I dont care who you are, you probably arent synthing any pharmaceutical close to 99% purity without prep scale chromatography involved.
 
So after some further research on the topic of the purity discussion I have come up with some results.

The molar mass of MDMA is 193.
The molar mass of MDMA.HCl is 229.
100X(193/229) = 84%

Which is probably where the 84% myth comes from.
 
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