I am once again amazed at how far this discussion has come. I?m especially loving the references to articles that look at the effects of enantiomers on neurochemistry and endocrinology. That?s fantastic. I was skeptical of the importance of racemic ratios, but I read just a tiny bit and it does seem that S is more potent and speedy, possibly via amphetamine-associated mechanisms, while R is more ?hallucinogenic? and binds serotonin and dopamine receptors with high affinity than S.
The last few pages of threads focused on several things, and I kept noticing the question of the precursor substance. I honestly think this is the key to everything. In my last post I included a link to a 2016 EU Drug Market report.
Two things were very clear in this article. First, the precursor availability determines everything about the synthesis, distribution, and sale of MDMA on a massive scale. As a result, the legal powers that be focus on the sale of these precursors (frequently sourced from China) in addition to the presence of said precursors and by-products in confiscated drugs.
Starting in 2008-2012 the amount of seized safrole oil-based precursors dramatically declined, while the seizure of piperonal,
PMK glycidate/PMK glycidide and their saltsincreased. As of 2015, the production of mass MDMA focuses on novel ways of making alternate precursors, so any number of things are possible.
@G-Chemyou pretty much state this to a tee in post #538. This time period of safrole decline matches exactly the reports on this site when users began to experience a significant change in the quality of MDMA. Furthermore, different routes of synthesis have different yields, so clearly mass producers will go for the third option in the table below because they make more money. I did read an article on MAPS that indicated back in the 70s they were using both safrole AND piperonyl acetone to make MDMA, so perhaps safrole as the ultimate precursor is not the most accurate answer. I do think whatever additions they are making to the new precursors and the changes in synthetic steps are having the effect. What is the relevance of glycidate? Although I have to admit that I agree with Scatterday that safrole is an ingredient I'd place a bet on in a horse race. It just feels like the right answer.
According to this reference, the answer to the question ?are they using MD-P2P as a precursor? is
yes.
"Between 2006 - 2009 differences were observed in the amount of precursor chemicals seized that could have been used in synthesis of MDMA (Table 1.4). Various factors could have caused the difference in the amount of seized precursor chemicals such as changes in enforcement and changes in manufacture and trafficking [127]. However, the low amount of the precursor chemicals seized considering the amount of ?ecstasy? tablets on the market suggest that much of the precursors used for MDMA synthesis are not detected [36].
"In Europe in 2004, there was a decline in the amount (about 17 mt) of reported seizures of 3,4-MDP2P, with the last seizures reported in 2007. The decrease in 3,4-MDP2P seizures could have been caused by tighter controls on the manufacture of this chemical in China (traditionally the source of this chemical), after an agreement between China and the EU in 2009 to improve precursor controls [36]. However, it was also suggested by the UNODC in 2010 that the decrease in 3,4-MDP2P in Europe could have been caused by an increased demand of this precursor in other parts of the world where MDMA manufactured had increased, such as North America, South-East Asia and Oceania [36]."
Thus, the mass production of MDMA (in contrast to smaller labs) will constantly shift and the determination of contaminants will shift with it, making testing for the ?undesirable components? very difficult. What we DO know is that the shift from safrole as a starting point to piperonal and finally, and even worse, to glycidate/glycidide and novel salts is one important factor in the change in street MDMA quality, even though it tests as pure.
Finally, several references I saw said that the purity and concentration of seized MDMA was consistently increasing, starting in 2010. This means that whatever the change is in synthesis and the resulting structure of the ?mongy? MDMA is so subtle that even narcotic control agencies aren?t finding it (or looking for it) .
So something about these changes in synthesis is creating a product that tests as more pure, yet also contains something that qualitatively alters the effect. That could be a ton of things, no?
Whatever the case, looking at government or narcotic institutional reports provides some valuable information into what the mass producers seem to be using in their synthesis.
Secondly, the discussion of washing MDMA is
veryinteresting. Scatterday said that his experience was very much like what he remembered from earlier years, simply by ?cleaning? the MDMA. So, what exactly does that process do from a chemical standpoint? I understand that it ?removes contaminants?? but does it separate something like 2,3. MDMA from 3,4-MDMA or have an effect on racemic content? Does it remove MDA? Can someone explain briefly and simply what a process like that does and then tie it in to the more complex debate that has been laid out here? What does a washed product like he made look like on machine analysis before and after cleaning? I think someone already asked this question, but it seems like a great next step to me.
I think this paper is really interesting. It gets super in depth about the chemical analysis of MDMA, how it is made, how it has changed over the years, etc. It had way more information than I could digest, but it included discussion of enantiomers and every type of analysis/machine that you guys have used.
https://kclpure.kcl.ac.uk/portal/files/37538701/2014_Mifsud_Mario_94L00643_ethesis.pdf
?The Physical and Chemical Characterisation of 3,4-MDMA Ecstasy Tablets. Kings College, London
