scatterday
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MDMA &
Empathogenic
Drugs
Welcome Guest! -
MDMA Moderators:
What is wrong with the MDMA available today?
- Thread starter Le Junk
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SympatheticMD
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Everything I've read in my deep dive into Google Scholar indicates that while the different enantiomers of MDMA act differently on the brain, studies of confiscated tablets and wastewater analysis and research on the effect of MDMA dating as far back as the 1970s all indicate that the products contain racemic mixtures. So at the moment, I'm doubting that a change in these ratios is likely to be the smoking gun in the discussion of "good" vs "bad" MDMA. I have been loving the discussion of MDMAs effect on oxytocin, which is obviously a huge mediator in the empathetic and loving effect that we describe in old school ecstasy.
So, if MDMA is only getting MORE pure over the past several years, is it possible that
a. Old MDMA made via a different synthetic route contained a "contaminant" that potentiated the release of oxytocin via its interaction with serotonin release?
b. New MDMA contains something that inhibits serotonin and/or it's stimulation of oxytocin release and this explains the decreased empathy?
c. Something related to amphetamine like compounds increase cortisol which decreases oxytocin (hence washing MDMA would eliminate chemicals that act to increase cortisol
Just some thoughts.
Also for Sopp1, there are a number of genetic variants that affect how serotonin is metabolized by the body and changes serotonin neurotransmission within the brain. So you could just have genes that keep you from feeling the effects. (Look up the "Warrior Gene"). There are others, but I forget the names
So, if MDMA is only getting MORE pure over the past several years, is it possible that
a. Old MDMA made via a different synthetic route contained a "contaminant" that potentiated the release of oxytocin via its interaction with serotonin release?
b. New MDMA contains something that inhibits serotonin and/or it's stimulation of oxytocin release and this explains the decreased empathy?
c. Something related to amphetamine like compounds increase cortisol which decreases oxytocin (hence washing MDMA would eliminate chemicals that act to increase cortisol
Just some thoughts.
Also for Sopp1, there are a number of genetic variants that affect how serotonin is metabolized by the body and changes serotonin neurotransmission within the brain. So you could just have genes that keep you from feeling the effects. (Look up the "Warrior Gene"). There are others, but I forget the names
Beenhead
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The two steps outlined above, in the washing and re crystallization procedure you are utilizing the solubility of MDMA in various solvents and temperatures. MDMA has terrible solubility in Acetone. You wash the MDMA in acetone, anything soluble in acetone is now gone. Dry the MDMA and heat Isopropyl, MDMA is soluble only slightly in iso, so by heating it you increase its solubility. Then the general practice is to throw this mixture in an ice bath now the solubility crashes, along with MDMA as a solid, crystallizing. Scratch the beaker with a glass stir rod if it is slow to occur.
You generally pick these solvents based on what your products solubility as various temperatures. You want all the junk to stay soluble and MDMA to crystallize
You generally pick these solvents based on what your products solubility as various temperatures. You want all the junk to stay soluble and MDMA to crystallize
scatterday
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This is incorrect and this is why anhydrous magnesium sulphate is added to a pure acetone mixture to remove any H20.
MDMA and Amphetamines are only soluble in h20 not anhydrous acetone or anhydrous isopropyl alcohol.
Both are strictly to be anhydrous otherwise you will loose product.
As I said I lost minimal product weighing it prior and post wash then the product I was left with a clear product rather than a looking like crystaline sand.
My loss of product was somewhere placing the MDMA at 85% pure because as you know 11% of MDMA is made up of HCL which would have likely purified the product to it's maximum potential of 89%.
Furthermore I have decided to get my equipment together to test this theory with a roll report unaffected by any other subtances then another roll report of the mdma, mda and amphetamine sulphate mixture.
To clarify on an ice bath that's partially correct.
If you prefer for your crystals to be smaller and more glass shard like drop it in an ice bath.
If you prefer larger clearer crystals you reduce temperature gradually so no contaminants and present within the recrystallization.
This is also why an ice bath is a bad idea because it causes moisture which can make it's way into your solution and a higher temperature on cooldown allows the heat to rise and push the h20 away from your recrystallization.
Another thing to note that this is an easy process and highly recommmend for recreational amphetamine users.
You will never go back to unwashed drugs again.
So smaller crystals cooled quickly=less purity and potential contaminants trapped inside.
Larger crystals= Lower risk of impurities trapped inside.
This information was given to me with someone very high up with a high degree in chemistry.
Hope this helps.
Edit just read the post and I read it incorrectly I thought you were saying mdma is soluble in acetone.
This is also why a boiling stone or if you didn't want to raise alarms by going into a chemical/science shop you could use a matchstick as a boiling stone to eliminate the risk of anhydrous isopropyl alcohol from superheating and destroying your product.
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Beenhead
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yeah... you totally misunderstood what I said Lol! All good!
I was giving a basic idea of what a solvent wash and recrystallization does. I get why you want to let the system cool slowly and form larger crystals. But I wonder how much different it will work? Usually, the standard practice is to do two or three recrystallizations to get pure product.
Keeping your isopropyl anhydrous is going to be very difficult when left open to the air no matter what you do. That is why it is generally kept under a nitrogen atmosphere, or opened very sparingly when you have it.
This is a method that is used to purify any organic compound and is taught in Organic Chemistry lab or advanced lab tech.
I have not looked at the solubulity of these things, but there is a good chance this method would bring a long 2,3-MDMA, MDA, and amphetamine, but should get rid of precursors.
I was giving a basic idea of what a solvent wash and recrystallization does. I get why you want to let the system cool slowly and form larger crystals. But I wonder how much different it will work? Usually, the standard practice is to do two or three recrystallizations to get pure product.
Keeping your isopropyl anhydrous is going to be very difficult when left open to the air no matter what you do. That is why it is generally kept under a nitrogen atmosphere, or opened very sparingly when you have it.
This is a method that is used to purify any organic compound and is taught in Organic Chemistry lab or advanced lab tech.
I have not looked at the solubulity of these things, but there is a good chance this method would bring a long 2,3-MDMA, MDA, and amphetamine, but should get rid of precursors.
scatterday
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Both multiple washes with anhydrous acetone and IPA are fine.
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Oh man, a lot to reply to so may take some time lol.
We theorize this altered isomer ratio is accidental not on purpose. Thanks to Glubra we know it can and does occur, and while it's possible it was done on purpose my guess is that it wasn't..
The thing about chemistry is this.. We don't know shit about it in all honesty. Us humans always think we are at the peak of our knowledge when in reality we are just scratching the surface. My guess is, with the right conditions, isomers can be skewed to favor one of the other. Earlier in the thread, LucidSDreamer made a good argument that it could occur.
I again hold strong to my belief that non-racemic MDMA is nothing new however..
And MD it's been awhile glad to see you back around..
In regards to oxytocin and other hormone release, it does seem as though R-MDMA may be mostly responsible for that. My guess is that R-MDA has similar properties too.
MD you wrote a lot that I'd love to respond to but gotta rest up, be back later for more!
Edit1- Just found the reason why oral MDMA is better than all other routes.. I always thought it was the increased rate of MDMA to MDA metabolism (probably has some effect still..) compared to other ROA's. Well just found out the metabolites HMMA and DHA are more potent at releasing the hormones oxytocin and vasopressin than MDMA. This makes sense as to why MDMA feels speedier with less empathy when taken via other routes.
Edit2- I think I was wrong regarding R-MDMA being a more potent stimulator of oxytocin and vasopressin, the study I read said they both effect but S-MDMA is more potent.. R-MDMA is confusing..
-GC
We theorize this altered isomer ratio is accidental not on purpose. Thanks to Glubra we know it can and does occur, and while it's possible it was done on purpose my guess is that it wasn't..
The thing about chemistry is this.. We don't know shit about it in all honesty. Us humans always think we are at the peak of our knowledge when in reality we are just scratching the surface. My guess is, with the right conditions, isomers can be skewed to favor one of the other. Earlier in the thread, LucidSDreamer made a good argument that it could occur.
I again hold strong to my belief that non-racemic MDMA is nothing new however..
And MD it's been awhile glad to see you back around..
In regards to oxytocin and other hormone release, it does seem as though R-MDMA may be mostly responsible for that. My guess is that R-MDA has similar properties too.
MD you wrote a lot that I'd love to respond to but gotta rest up, be back later for more!
Edit1- Just found the reason why oral MDMA is better than all other routes.. I always thought it was the increased rate of MDMA to MDA metabolism (probably has some effect still..) compared to other ROA's. Well just found out the metabolites HMMA and DHA are more potent at releasing the hormones oxytocin and vasopressin than MDMA. This makes sense as to why MDMA feels speedier with less empathy when taken via other routes.
Edit2- I think I was wrong regarding R-MDMA being a more potent stimulator of oxytocin and vasopressin, the study I read said they both effect but S-MDMA is more potent.. R-MDMA is confusing..
-GC
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SympatheticMD
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I've been waiting for you G-Chem! I keep going over this EXTREMELY long thread, and every time I find some old post where someone already discussed something that I ask weeks later. I?m sure its gets annoying. The more I read, the more I learn, and the more confused I get.
This stuff about different enantiomers behaving differently on neurotransmission is blowing my mind. The R/S thing and oxytocin is indeed confusing. I must have read the same article you did, and the print was small, but the difference between the amount of oxytocin released was minimal overall in the two isomers.
I found this super weird paper written by ? it?s impossible to describe. I?ll post the link, and if you can make your way through all his bullshit try to find the list that has the documented effects of MDMA on neurophysiology . The list is incredible. Ecstasy may be the messiest psychoactive drug I?ve ever seen.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0306987715004727#b0355
Since you didn?t get to my questions, ignore them. I?m over focusing on oxytocin. I can?t even find the words to ask what I want to know ? basically I?m trying to discern how tests are showing that MDMA is pure and yet it feels so different, presumably due to changes in synthesis. What kinds of things do these analyses of MDMA NOT show? If a methyl group is randomly present, would that be detected?
Also if you ever get bored, I?m confused by a paper I read that relates to the question above. The authors were trying to trace production labs by using isotope mass spectrometry:
?Drug profiling, or the ability to link batches of illicit drugs to a common source or synthetic route, has long been a goal of law enforcement agencies. Research in the past decade has explored drug profiling with isotope ratio mass spectrometry (IRMS). This type of research can be limited by the use of substances seized by police, of which the provenance is unknown. Fortunately, however, some studies in recent years have been carried out on drugs synthesized in-house and therefore of known history. In this study, 18 MDMA samples were synthesized in-house from aliquots of the same precursor by three common reductive amination routes and analyzed for 13C, 15N, and 2H isotope abundance using IRMS. For these three preparative methods, results indicate that 2H isotope abundance data is necessary for discrimination by synthetic route. Furthermore, hierarchical cluster analysis using 2H data on its own or combined with 13C and/or 15N provides a statistical means for accurate discrimination by synthetic route.?
What does this mean exactly? I get they tested three different synthetic routes, all using the same precursor, and by labelling the H, C, and Ns they can determine which route was used. I know law enforcement looks hard at what precursors are used, but why are they following synthetic routes? Would different isotopes be detected on a purity test of MDMA? Would it affect the quality of it? And if one drug has more Hs on it (they said they could identify synthetic route by Hs alone, would that show up on a test? Basically, how does this study relate to the end product of MDMA and possibly alter the effects of MDMA produced by different synthetic routes?
This stuff about different enantiomers behaving differently on neurotransmission is blowing my mind. The R/S thing and oxytocin is indeed confusing. I must have read the same article you did, and the print was small, but the difference between the amount of oxytocin released was minimal overall in the two isomers.
I found this super weird paper written by ? it?s impossible to describe. I?ll post the link, and if you can make your way through all his bullshit try to find the list that has the documented effects of MDMA on neurophysiology . The list is incredible. Ecstasy may be the messiest psychoactive drug I?ve ever seen.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0306987715004727#b0355
Since you didn?t get to my questions, ignore them. I?m over focusing on oxytocin. I can?t even find the words to ask what I want to know ? basically I?m trying to discern how tests are showing that MDMA is pure and yet it feels so different, presumably due to changes in synthesis. What kinds of things do these analyses of MDMA NOT show? If a methyl group is randomly present, would that be detected?
Also if you ever get bored, I?m confused by a paper I read that relates to the question above. The authors were trying to trace production labs by using isotope mass spectrometry:
?Drug profiling, or the ability to link batches of illicit drugs to a common source or synthetic route, has long been a goal of law enforcement agencies. Research in the past decade has explored drug profiling with isotope ratio mass spectrometry (IRMS). This type of research can be limited by the use of substances seized by police, of which the provenance is unknown. Fortunately, however, some studies in recent years have been carried out on drugs synthesized in-house and therefore of known history. In this study, 18 MDMA samples were synthesized in-house from aliquots of the same precursor by three common reductive amination routes and analyzed for 13C, 15N, and 2H isotope abundance using IRMS. For these three preparative methods, results indicate that 2H isotope abundance data is necessary for discrimination by synthetic route. Furthermore, hierarchical cluster analysis using 2H data on its own or combined with 13C and/or 15N provides a statistical means for accurate discrimination by synthetic route.?
What does this mean exactly? I get they tested three different synthetic routes, all using the same precursor, and by labelling the H, C, and Ns they can determine which route was used. I know law enforcement looks hard at what precursors are used, but why are they following synthetic routes? Would different isotopes be detected on a purity test of MDMA? Would it affect the quality of it? And if one drug has more Hs on it (they said they could identify synthetic route by Hs alone, would that show up on a test? Basically, how does this study relate to the end product of MDMA and possibly alter the effects of MDMA produced by different synthetic routes?
Beenhead
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If the MDMA molecule were changed at all (say the addition of a methyl group )it would no longer be MDMA, would be completely obvious in Mass Spec, would also most likely yield a different color in the colorimetric tests.
Using a different starting product in the synthesis really only does one thing. It gives different contaminants. THere will be different side products and left over starting material. You may see a difference in the stereochemistry, but most reactions yield racemic products, and in order to have a stereoselective reaction you need some catalyst or chiral reactants.
The paper is looking at isotope ratios to trace the synthetic route of the creation of MDMA from a single precursor
Basically there is a pretty constant ratio of 13C/14C/C12 , and the same as Nitrogen and Hydrogen isotopes.
Lets use a random organic molecule with mass 134. You do not see one single peak at 134, you see what is called an isotope cluster, that means switching 1 carbon12 to carbon13. This makes a 135 peak. And then you get to switch 2 carbons and so fourth.
Since Carbon 12 only is the most common, Mass 134 peak is much larger than the Mass 135 peak.
What they are looking at is the ratio of the height between the peaks with the different isotopes (carbon12/carbon13 and hydrogen2/hydrogen)
What they are hoping is that they can identify batches of MDMA and therefore trace where it came from by pyrollizing the ionized sample and looking at the isotope ratios. maybe one labs precursors are so different in isotope ratios from another they will be identifiable.
THis has nothing to do with the pharmacological properties of the MDMA and is just a qualitative method of analysis. I am a Mass Spectrometrist, but I must admit I have never heard of this type of MS and may have totally destroyed its description!
Using a different starting product in the synthesis really only does one thing. It gives different contaminants. THere will be different side products and left over starting material. You may see a difference in the stereochemistry, but most reactions yield racemic products, and in order to have a stereoselective reaction you need some catalyst or chiral reactants.
The paper is looking at isotope ratios to trace the synthetic route of the creation of MDMA from a single precursor
Basically there is a pretty constant ratio of 13C/14C/C12 , and the same as Nitrogen and Hydrogen isotopes.
Lets use a random organic molecule with mass 134. You do not see one single peak at 134, you see what is called an isotope cluster, that means switching 1 carbon12 to carbon13. This makes a 135 peak. And then you get to switch 2 carbons and so fourth.
Since Carbon 12 only is the most common, Mass 134 peak is much larger than the Mass 135 peak.
What they are looking at is the ratio of the height between the peaks with the different isotopes (carbon12/carbon13 and hydrogen2/hydrogen)
What they are hoping is that they can identify batches of MDMA and therefore trace where it came from by pyrollizing the ionized sample and looking at the isotope ratios. maybe one labs precursors are so different in isotope ratios from another they will be identifiable.
THis has nothing to do with the pharmacological properties of the MDMA and is just a qualitative method of analysis. I am a Mass Spectrometrist, but I must admit I have never heard of this type of MS and may have totally destroyed its description!
scatterday
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Something is off with MDMA worldwide. Not just Denmark.
SympatheticMD
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Even though your answer couldn?t have been more clear, I am still confused. We both agree that the study used the same precursor to compare three different "reductive amination routes", and then ultimately wanted to know if these three different routes of synthesis on the exact same same precursor produced distinguishably different products varying by isotope abundance.I thought an isotope was an element that differed by the number of neutrons it contained. So again, I keep interpreting this to mean that one precursor using different synthetic routes can produce distinct MDMA products that differ by the ratio of isotopes they contain. After I read this second article below, I still hold the same opinion.
The identification of links between seizures of illicit 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA or ?ecstasy?) has been a global target of law enforcement agencies in recent years. Previous work has shown that, when the reaction conditions are carefully repeated from batch to batch, stable isotope ratios allow the discrimination of MDMA?HCl batches according to synthetic route used for manufacture. In this study, the effects of altering five reaction conditions relating to the Pt/H2reductive amination synthesis were, for the first time, systematically investigated using a two level, five factor factorial design. Results indicate that the δ2H values of MDMA?HCl are affected by the length of imine stir time, and the δ15N values are affected by the degree of excess methylamine employed. Furthermore, the δ13C and δ18O values have been shown to be affected by the efficiency of the reaction, despite the similarity in carbon and oxygen composition of the starting material and product molecules. In addition to being of theoretical importance in this field of analytical science overall, this work is essential in order to more fully contextualize the interpretation of IRMS data which may be used as potential forensic evidence.
I tried to see if different amounts of isotopes in could alter the way a chemical acted biologically, but Safari started to block me due to my suspicious searches on Google and Google scholar, which really pisses me off.
I read that I can access all kinds of scientific journals on the DW ? something I have been missing terribly now that I am not associated with a university. I tried got into the DW, but the whole thing got over my head quickly. Unfortunately, my attempt to see research articles on the DW is probably what put me on some list that is now banishing me from searching up articles on regular internet search engines.
That seems super unfair.
All I?m trying to do with this strange isotope investigation is to figure out how MDMA has changed in its effect over the past few years, which we know is largely due to major changes in precursor substances and creative synthesis. What is striking is that these changes don?t show up on tests that declare MDMA pure. And we have one person who stated that washing it made his product more like the product of old. I?d bet the government looks at many more variables when evaluating the composition of MDMA on the market. I also bet I might find this kind of info on the DW, if I can figure it out. However, I?m afraid I already blew it by Searching some DW site on Safari instead of the encrypted browser, which means someone has my ? IPL? IRL? Anyone, Big Brother has me and now I?m a bit scared. I would like to officially say to Mr. Brother that I am simply a neuroscientist geek who likes the brain and pharmacology, and I have no intent to use any knowledge I procure for any illegal purposes. Please let me back on Google Scholar journal catalogues. I?d be lost without them.
And G-Chem, where are you???
The identification of links between seizures of illicit 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA or ?ecstasy?) has been a global target of law enforcement agencies in recent years. Previous work has shown that, when the reaction conditions are carefully repeated from batch to batch, stable isotope ratios allow the discrimination of MDMA?HCl batches according to synthetic route used for manufacture. In this study, the effects of altering five reaction conditions relating to the Pt/H2reductive amination synthesis were, for the first time, systematically investigated using a two level, five factor factorial design. Results indicate that the δ2H values of MDMA?HCl are affected by the length of imine stir time, and the δ15N values are affected by the degree of excess methylamine employed. Furthermore, the δ13C and δ18O values have been shown to be affected by the efficiency of the reaction, despite the similarity in carbon and oxygen composition of the starting material and product molecules. In addition to being of theoretical importance in this field of analytical science overall, this work is essential in order to more fully contextualize the interpretation of IRMS data which may be used as potential forensic evidence.
I tried to see if different amounts of isotopes in could alter the way a chemical acted biologically, but Safari started to block me due to my suspicious searches on Google and Google scholar, which really pisses me off.
I read that I can access all kinds of scientific journals on the DW ? something I have been missing terribly now that I am not associated with a university. I tried got into the DW, but the whole thing got over my head quickly. Unfortunately, my attempt to see research articles on the DW is probably what put me on some list that is now banishing me from searching up articles on regular internet search engines.
That seems super unfair.
All I?m trying to do with this strange isotope investigation is to figure out how MDMA has changed in its effect over the past few years, which we know is largely due to major changes in precursor substances and creative synthesis. What is striking is that these changes don?t show up on tests that declare MDMA pure. And we have one person who stated that washing it made his product more like the product of old. I?d bet the government looks at many more variables when evaluating the composition of MDMA on the market. I also bet I might find this kind of info on the DW, if I can figure it out. However, I?m afraid I already blew it by Searching some DW site on Safari instead of the encrypted browser, which means someone has my ? IPL? IRL? Anyone, Big Brother has me and now I?m a bit scared. I would like to officially say to Mr. Brother that I am simply a neuroscientist geek who likes the brain and pharmacology, and I have no intent to use any knowledge I procure for any illegal purposes. Please let me back on Google Scholar journal catalogues. I?d be lost without them.
And G-Chem, where are you???
scatterday
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Safrole treaty signed in 2008 was the problem.
All roll reports since then have changed since safrole is harder to obtain and you can obtain piperanol safer and cheaper from other countries.
Isn't it strange after the main precursor was changed the roll reports started to change.
Even the ecstasy back in the day used to smell different. It might smell similar but definitely not the same.
It had a dusty or feint musky, root beer, licorise, aniseed smell. I'd recognise it anywhere and wish I had a pill stored away for analysis of it's contaminants and then consume it.
Though all we have at the moment is a wash or isomer ratios along with synthesising routes via MD-P2P via piperanol.
I'm sure we'll figure it out eventually via this thread.
The synthesis is different therefore the precursors left over in the product will alter or inhibit some neurotransmitters from being released such as serotonin and oxytocin. All we need to do is analyse is the MDMA and it's contaminants with a mass spectrometer or gc/ms test.
If everyone is claiming the product has changed it's not just a matter of "the magic is gone" it's a matter of the product has changed and most probably the synthesis.
As I was saying need to experiment with more washes and write up some comprehensive erowid roll reports.
All roll reports since then have changed since safrole is harder to obtain and you can obtain piperanol safer and cheaper from other countries.
Isn't it strange after the main precursor was changed the roll reports started to change.
Even the ecstasy back in the day used to smell different. It might smell similar but definitely not the same.
It had a dusty or feint musky, root beer, licorise, aniseed smell. I'd recognise it anywhere and wish I had a pill stored away for analysis of it's contaminants and then consume it.
Though all we have at the moment is a wash or isomer ratios along with synthesising routes via MD-P2P via piperanol.
I'm sure we'll figure it out eventually via this thread.
The synthesis is different therefore the precursors left over in the product will alter or inhibit some neurotransmitters from being released such as serotonin and oxytocin. All we need to do is analyse is the MDMA and it's contaminants with a mass spectrometer or gc/ms test.
If everyone is claiming the product has changed it's not just a matter of "the magic is gone" it's a matter of the product has changed and most probably the synthesis.
As I was saying need to experiment with more washes and write up some comprehensive erowid roll reports.
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Beenhead
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Two things: if you want a paper, email the lead author or the last author. If it was published with public funds they have to give it to you.
Next isotope ratio pharmacology is out there
There are patents with Deuterium replacing hydrogens in morphine to increase the potency
But this is not the same, as these syntheses arent trying to change isomeric percentages, and while they may leave a distinct fingerprint, their variation is probably so small very little difference in effect would result.
Next isotope ratio pharmacology is out there
There are patents with Deuterium replacing hydrogens in morphine to increase the potency
But this is not the same, as these syntheses arent trying to change isomeric percentages, and while they may leave a distinct fingerprint, their variation is probably so small very little difference in effect would result.
SympatheticMD
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I'm 100% in agreement with you scatterday. It would be super interesting to try the stuff they are using in the MAPS trials. i bet they do not use safrole as a precursor and I also bet that it doesn't have the same intensity that the stuff I had in the the 80s did (how would you honestly maintain in a therapy session anyway. T\he thought makes me smile.)
Thanks for the advice about papers Beenhead. I'm not sure that articles in Nature, etc count as publicly funded, but maybe they are... the journals are certainly making money by holding their access to giant databases held by academic institutions and the like. Bums me out that knowledge is restricted that way. I think I can't remember....the last author is the head of the lab, right? And the first is the protege in the lab? God, my memory is fading fast people.
I do have a question for you younger people. You guys seem to be more focused on MDMA powder than ecstasy tablets. Is that true, or am I misreading? If you do like the powder is that because the pills are more likely to contain all sorts of contaminants in order to make them more solid?
Lastly, is there any relevance to "brown" MDMA crystals. Does that in any way signify that it is good or bad or what its precursor might be? And why is the distinction of "champagne" MDMA being made? i assume it is a marketing ploy, but what does champagne imply?
Thanks for the advice about papers Beenhead. I'm not sure that articles in Nature, etc count as publicly funded, but maybe they are... the journals are certainly making money by holding their access to giant databases held by academic institutions and the like. Bums me out that knowledge is restricted that way. I think I can't remember....the last author is the head of the lab, right? And the first is the protege in the lab? God, my memory is fading fast people.
I do have a question for you younger people. You guys seem to be more focused on MDMA powder than ecstasy tablets. Is that true, or am I misreading? If you do like the powder is that because the pills are more likely to contain all sorts of contaminants in order to make them more solid?
Lastly, is there any relevance to "brown" MDMA crystals. Does that in any way signify that it is good or bad or what its precursor might be? And why is the distinction of "champagne" MDMA being made? i assume it is a marketing ploy, but what does champagne imply?
scatterday
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Dark MDMA shows inpurities in the synthesis of the finished product. You could solvent wash brown MDMA and it would come out crystal clear.
It's just a matter of what those impurities/by-products are. It's all a marketing ploy if you ask me.
I remember splitting ecstasy back in the day and the MDMA inside was always crystal clear. Never seen brown crystalline MDMA in a pill before.
I've washed multiple colours of MDMA before and they've all come out crystal clear.
SympatheticMD
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Even if they are in Europe? (the authors)
Sorry MD been super busy this past week or so.. Bout to be driving for a few days so may chime in on a break but a few things.
Indeed authors are actually fairly excited to speak of their work as in a way it's a show of recognition for their hard work that sometimes gets forgotten.
Brown MDMA can be an indication of many types of impurities, some could be beneficial for the experience depending on synthetic route but unfortunately since almost every route can produce brown mdma it's hard to make any definitive statements. I'll say personally I've only taken brown mdma 2-3times, and purple mdma once (95% of the time I take clear/ish shards) and while I did notice a difference in effect I wouldn't say it made it any better an experience. In fact I thought it added to the physical side effects.
I used to compare brown impure mdma I was obtaining (key phrase there, my areas brown mdma may be different than yours more than likely) to really pure mdma like this...
Brown mdma with the increased physical side effects tells you without a doubt it's there. There is a slight increase in stimulation but mainly an increase in bodily side effects. I.e. Nausea, cramping, muscle tenseness (especially in the back causing pain), gurning, etc.. Also the empathy and euphoria felt more forced and unnatural. One more thing, brown mdma (and MDA) seems more visual and effects vision moreso.
Really pure mdma at lower to medium doses can sometimes go almost unnoticed physically. The empathy and euphoria however is simply beyond explanation but the best part is how natural it feels. Almost like your having the best day you've ever had in your life and if you didn't know you took a drug earlier that day and didn't know your pupils were the size of dinner plates you may not even expect the effects were originating from a drug. The effects feel distinctly unlike a drug. I've had quite a few experiences that I remember felt as if the empathy and love was being "unlocked" moreso than the drug making me feel that way. You will also notice with experiences like these, much less comedown overall. And its effect on vision is much less pronounced and more crisp/clean, at most maybe a slight brightening of colors and lights.
It's really hard to explain the difference and don't feel that did it justice..
Again though the brown mdma I tried back in 2012 or whatever probably ain't the same as brown mdma from the early 90's. All depends on the synthetic route.
Back later
-GC
Indeed authors are actually fairly excited to speak of their work as in a way it's a show of recognition for their hard work that sometimes gets forgotten.
Brown MDMA can be an indication of many types of impurities, some could be beneficial for the experience depending on synthetic route but unfortunately since almost every route can produce brown mdma it's hard to make any definitive statements. I'll say personally I've only taken brown mdma 2-3times, and purple mdma once (95% of the time I take clear/ish shards) and while I did notice a difference in effect I wouldn't say it made it any better an experience. In fact I thought it added to the physical side effects.
I used to compare brown impure mdma I was obtaining (key phrase there, my areas brown mdma may be different than yours more than likely) to really pure mdma like this...
Brown mdma with the increased physical side effects tells you without a doubt it's there. There is a slight increase in stimulation but mainly an increase in bodily side effects. I.e. Nausea, cramping, muscle tenseness (especially in the back causing pain), gurning, etc.. Also the empathy and euphoria felt more forced and unnatural. One more thing, brown mdma (and MDA) seems more visual and effects vision moreso.
Really pure mdma at lower to medium doses can sometimes go almost unnoticed physically. The empathy and euphoria however is simply beyond explanation but the best part is how natural it feels. Almost like your having the best day you've ever had in your life and if you didn't know you took a drug earlier that day and didn't know your pupils were the size of dinner plates you may not even expect the effects were originating from a drug. The effects feel distinctly unlike a drug. I've had quite a few experiences that I remember felt as if the empathy and love was being "unlocked" moreso than the drug making me feel that way. You will also notice with experiences like these, much less comedown overall. And its effect on vision is much less pronounced and more crisp/clean, at most maybe a slight brightening of colors and lights.
It's really hard to explain the difference and don't feel that did it justice..
Again though the brown mdma I tried back in 2012 or whatever probably ain't the same as brown mdma from the early 90's. All depends on the synthetic route.
Back later
-GC
- Status