[DMT Subthread] Entity / Alien / Machine Elf Contact

[Ximot]

like, er, figments of the imagination?

(mind you, I haven't been having nearly half as much spice as you have... I might change my mind on this... I simply haven't had as many opportunities to get to know them very well, and aren't they just so elusive sometimes?)

 

[Jabberwocky]

I don't know....

I've actually started crying a bit about this tonight....I'm just a little confused about it and am feeling all sorts of defense mechanisms popping up in my mind about it.

A part of me wants to believe and another part of me tells me its just hallucinations.

I know for sure that it has been a wonderful opening experience to smoke so much DMT in the last few months. That I am certain of...

 

[folias]

This world is usually considered by eastern religions to be an illusion, maya: i.e. not real.

If DMT can allow access to realms beyond THIS apparent reality, which appears to the experiencer as being MORE REAL than this reality, then it could be said that they have broken the veil of maya into a greater and more expansive reality beyond ours.

Is our "reality", the only "reality"?... I would have thought one of the first things that the DMT state seems to inspire in people is that there are many different realities, each as valid as the others.

This means that what people are being shown is that these realities are independant constructs, which are not dependant on an "observer" to manifest or project them into existence...

my mac "dictionary" philosophical definition of "reality" is:

"existence that is absolute, self-sufficient, or objective, and not subject to human decisions or conventions."

Some people, like Benny Shannon, assert that "all this" is in the mind...

http://www.erowid.org/library/books/antipodes_mind.shtml

If so, I would say that the mind is very, very strange that it would create these entities who SAY THEY ARE REAL, and do and "say" extraordinary things to the person who is experiencing them.

The problem with this view that "all is in mind" is that the material one encounters is often SO alien and outside of anything the mind has EVER consciously known... so where is the mind getting it from? And if this is the inner mind, is that not a very valid reality? If so, how did the inner mind come up with this stuff?

Benny Shannon says the mind is like the great mysterious frontier... truly though, I don't think there is a true "out there"... it all seem to be, "in there".

("the truth is IN there!" just isn't as glamourous though as the x-files version)

Regardless, it seems to me that the content of DMT experiences are beyond the generative potential of the usual monkey mind. The data is often experienced as being much more real than that usual data the mind receives (from the earth reality)

I personally, can't make much sense of the data at the best of times, which tends to imply to me that the data is coming from "elsewhere"... also, it is often not just data that is being imparted but a living relationship with other forms of sentience.

Yet, The first thing that many forms of this sentience say is that, 'we are you', but this may not mean that as soon as the DMT effect is expired they fall back into the empty abyss of Disney digital potential within... sometimes, though you can see the pixelations... and I believe many of these beings are very simple projections.

It's easy to differentiate, because the "complex" one's will blow you out of the water...

And if you watch them leave you, carefully, you can often see a radiant light coming through the crack in the layers of curtain they go through; and they may imply or gently communicate to you, that have other business to attend to elsewhere.


Julian.

 

[swilow]

I don't know....

I've actually started crying a bit about this tonight....I'm just a little confused about it and am feeling all sorts of defense mechanisms popping up in my mind about it.

If they are real or aren't real, what difference does it make when the emotive content is 'real'?

A part of me wants to believe and another part of me tells me its just hallucinations.

Both is probably right.

I know for sure that it has been a wonderful opening experience to smoke so much DMT in the last few months. That I am certain of...

That I concurr with, DMT was a daily sacrament for me for several months end last year start of this- and yet, I still no know more then I did, or no know more. Except that I touched and made friends with some very ineteresting beautiful parts of my nervous system and its connection to another worlds.

 

[mezcal]

Come on, guys...

We all know that there's no such thing as reality


It doesn't take a long time meditating to figure that one out!

 

[ChemicalSmiles]

Good shit%) %) %)

 

[Jabberwocky]

Come on, guys...

We all know that there's no such thing as reality


It doesn't take a long time meditating to figure that one out!

Well, thats not my experience meditating and tripping for the past 6 years. I know you're talking tongue in cheek at least somewhat, but I feel more grounded in this reality than I did before I started meditating and tripping on psychedelics. DMT especially, I come away afterwards with a feeling of being wholly present, much like the feeling after an intense period of meditation.

I've skipped down a sun dappled trail through the woods lighting my hand upon beautiful ferns and flowers and watching birds and other animals in perfect contentment more than once after laying sprawled out in the leaves smoking DMT for a couple hours.

 

[PippUK]

After finally getting round to reading this thread right through, I'd ended up with a few thoughts.
While the funny business is in effect, all you can say for sure is that the experiences seem very real. But it seems like science at the moment is unable to offer a testable hypothesis as to what is going on. What you can describe honestly from a first person subjective point of is your experience. The 'What' of the matter is available to anyone partaking. But the how is off limits it seems. 'Of that which cannot be said, one should remain silent' said Wittgenstein. He was talking about the limits of language. But the same goes for science. It seems that physics has reached the observable limits of knowledge. Like in particle physics where there is a minimal size below which observations cannot penetrate. Perhaps beyond this veil lies a multitude of possible explanations for which testable proofs may never beimplemented.
All we can do is catalogue our experiences, and chart the waters we find.
Its possible to be skeptical towards all levels of reality, but obviously pretty unproductive. A reassuring thing about normal reality though, is that the rules don't change and you can take it for granted that their is continuity, which suggests that normal reality is not imagined or a dream. I have noticed however that there is continuity between visits to the DMT realm, as though you can pick up the book on the same page you left it when you came back last time. This is a peculiar thing which gives the realm a special sense of authenticity sometimes.

 

[itsALLfake]

I feel more grounded in this reality than I did before I started meditating and tripping on psychedelics.

I can't agree with you more.
I am a much more happier and open hearted person when I accept my life as it is, and just go with the flow as a human being, and not focuss on "whats real."

I have the rest of my life to live.
Reality has eternity to be.


But. Things can be experienced. are they real?
if it can be explained. it is real to you. you=reality.

 

[Xorkoth]

it is real to you. you=reality.

This is why people are so dangerous. Because they're always right.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I resist the idea that whatever I think is real, is real. How could we talk about cases of ignorance or error if this were so? It does not seem to work, logically, that whatever I think is real, is a metaphysical point of reality.

People think God exists, does that make God real (other than as a belief tokened in someone's head?). Of course not.

Do we consider the schizophrenic to have a grasp on reality? No, we think he's in error (due to some neurophysiological imbalance) about the person in the corner telling him to do such and such.

Here is the contrapositive to cases of ignorance when someone believes in an entity: If you fail to see the chipmunk I am pointing out on the side of the trail and later, when asked if there was a chipmunk on the side of the trail, you respond negatively, does that mean the chipmunk really did not exist? Of course not...chipmunks exist whether you believe in them or not. Entities (so construed) do not exist whether you believe in them or not.

No, I'm sure people can be wrong about what's real in reality...and I'm also sure such a powerful experience like smoking DMT or tripping very hard on some other substance can provide an impetus in a person to create a structure and order (such as the application of conscious entities) in order to process and digest the experience.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Where are you going with that? Well, of course DMT is real and of course the experience of DMT is real. The problem is in our methodological approach to describing the DMT experience. If we want a so called 'real'/objective description of an inherently subjective thing (DMT trippin'), then we won't get it...does that mean it doesn't exist or isn't real? Of course not.

Incidentally, this is the move of some hardcore reductionist/identity theorist, in so many words (and often obscured/subtly), to attempt to reduce consciousness as not existing at all in the way it is now conceptualized (ie subjectively).

But, its only a problem if you demand sticking to a completely objective account of reality. In my opinion, thats begging the question to begin with, is reality completely objective? If not, why should we think an objective methodology should be the best one?

 

[itsALLfake]

Where are you going with that? Well, of course DMT is real and of course the experience of DMT is real

so...A DMT experience is reality, and we are all part of some universal conspiracy. Doomed to having our souls harvested by inter-galactical space demon/fairies *whatever you like* so that they can ward off into the same cycle on the next higher scale. No.trippinwordplay

I am breathing/thinking for a reason. I have the ability to agree with a scientific fact, a book's story, or my own perspective of "reality"

I resist the idea that whatever I think is real, is real...

No, I'm sure people can be wrong about what's real in reality..

2+2=5. I'm right. who are you to say that I am wrong about that?
no doubt a rip off of a song, but just dwell with it.

 

[itsALLfake]

What if we weren't as "individualistic" as we think we are?
if one thing can be pointless...then everything else can be pointless.

There sure is a lot of undefined "space" out there. or is it out there?
Just like air. you cant see it, but you take it in and use it. and realease it back with the cycle.

 

[egor]

I have come to the simple conclusion that the entitys that I have come in contact with through my use of psychedelics are latent fragments of my unconscious psyche, brought to the surface by ego disolution. It was the answer that makes the most sense to me, so I ran with it.

 

[getreal]

I wish I had an opinion..........................

 

[illusion25]

I have come to the simple conclusion that the entitys that I have come in contact with through my use of psychedelics are latent fragments of my unconscious psyche, brought to the surface by ego disolution

yes i agree. I think that dmt/lsd and pretty much all psychedelic tryptmaines allow you to go deep into your DNA and subconscious. If our DNA codes everything we are , were then by unlocking it allows us to see our true nature.

to me a bad trip is someone not accepting thier true self or not comfortable with certain parts of thier psyche, or just plain confused.

I wonder if the DMT expierence is more real than our normal perception of reality?
I think so.........
DMT feels so clean and cleansing. IT feels like air is rushing thru my brain.

I do wonder if the auditory noises while on DMT are distortions of normal sounds waves or you are hearing things in another dimension/frequency.
DPT and DMT give me weird animal like frog mumbling sounds. It is funny sometimes and other times it is quite freakish sounding.

There sure is a lot of undefined "space" out there. or is it out there?

well 99.999% of the universe is nothingness. not empty space but nothingness. Nothingness is something ...it is nothing. (a ketamine realization)
I think alot of our reality is consciouness and imagination.


DMT allows to to see reality from an objective perspective rather than your own subjective view.

i am kinda rambling on about pointless info...sorry

 

[drancer]

The problem with conceptualizing the mystery of the universe is the use of faulty metaphors. No amount of words can account for everything, you have to try though.

I agree, trying to describe something that is not defined within the realms of time and space with words (which belong to the physical reality) can be a truly translational dilemma.

I like to think that our hallucinations do collectively enable us to realise that there exists a realm beyond our physical reality, as a lot of +4 experiences appear to share a common thread - the only differences are due to our brain's attempt at subconsciously attempting to rationalise it all. For example if we are religious then we might associate entities encountered in the outworldly dimension as gods or deities.

 

[B9]

I've said before and I'll say it again (you're outta your head) Can

I do wonder if the auditory noises while on DMT are distortions of normal sounds waves or you are hearing things in another dimension/frequency.

I speculate they are from beyond the normal aural range, I think we tap into some kind of inherited genetic memory, when pathways are 'lit up' that no longer have a basis in our modern mental construct something akin to word or thematic association takes place and your mind manifests the nearest approximation it can manage. Sorta confabulation due to, well the same thing that would cause confabulation anyway, but obviously the 'missing' part is a result of evolution rather than brain damage.

Proof zero! But still I like it as an explanation. Even the famed 'elves' [who elude me as I was clearly a bounty hunter of elves in a previous reality ] stand up to this speculation. Assuming all people and animals evolved from a small gene pool, which would be reducted on a regular basis, combined genetic memory and therefore probable similar interpretation of such seems highly feasible to me. History travels within us it seems. No reason why physical development , clearly coded for genetically, and therefore 'memory' cannot be accessed by an 'opened' mind. THINK ~ 200 million years of sensory input all stored up and you go poking about in there with your DMT stick, no wonder you cannot recognise things yet they 'feel familiar'.


Oh and it covers the 'one mind one soul' brigade of enlightenment mythology or whateverology you care to choose for it.


Actually I wish I could prove it coz it's sounding better to me by the second.

Anyone care to comment?



Much love to yous all.

 

[Ptah]

I have come to the simple conclusion that the entitys that I have come in contact with through my use of psychedelics are latent fragments of my unconscious psyche

I used to believe that too, until an "entity" contacted me.
Its autonomous behavior and mental power quickly made me believe otherwise: this "entity" is NOT part of me and as non-human, alien and powerful as nothing and nobody else I have ever experienced.
Contacts happened both on psychedelics and when sober, mostly initiated by the "entity".
When I interface with it often (which btw, I rarely do these days) other people can feel it too, and see strange things around me and the place where I live, with obvious symbolic connections to that "entity".
"Contact high" hehehe

Contacts have been mostly pleasant (with one exception) and usually very informative too.

So...is this one "real"? I believe this truely is a non-physical entity but I do realise that this is not verifyable by objective means, in spite of the glimpses other people get of it.
I may of course be imagining things REAL hard. Anyone who's experienced contact highs knows that the stuff that happens inside us isn't necessarily limited to our own minds.