Would you like to have a BL Art Forum?

[thujone]

perhaps. perhaps not.

surely the case for a new forum has to be better than "it would be a nice idea" or "it might work"?

alasdair

Well, there are TWO music subforums, one for poetic license, and another for film discussion. I would imagine that most people hesitant to the idea of a Visual Arts section feel that way because they imagine it to be a stagnant form of the all-encompassing genre of ART, where it's really just as alive as music is or poetry is (and like wesmdow says sometimes people just post expression there even if they know it's garbage.) Or they just don't imagine a use for it. Well, I can already name one use (of many) for a Visual Arts forum: a place to house all the awesome Weekly Photography threads that have to compete with other stuff in SO.

It could also be an awesome place to promote experimentation and consequently education for BLers looking to start into an art form. It's hard to teach someone the fundamentals of music or poetry over the internet, but cool tricks and methods for visual arts CAN be taught via step-by-step tutorials, and I don't think there are any artists here who wouldn't be keen on learning a new trick to improve their skill

 

[ego_loss]

I like <insert broad topic here>. There are plenty of other bluelighters who like <insert broad topic here>. I want a <insert broad topic here> forum.

 

[Pander Bear]

I dont want to blow your mind dude, but there are only a handful of art threads on the first page of SO. You move them to a new forum, and some of the people who read those threads aren't going to follow. The same thing happened when the administrators killed V&PA. Why is posting in Second Opinons not working for you?

Thje fact that there exist other forums for music and writing should have no bearing on this discussion by the way. Following that logic, there ought to be a literature forum, a sports forum, a games forum, a technology forum, ad infinitum, but there don't have to be.

 

[MazDan]

a little piece of my soul just died...


BECAUSE WE ARE NOT COWS!

Hang on a cotton picken minute..........Its my opinion.........I just dont get it.

I mean its just a bit of paint that costs 2 bucks and generally the frame costs more and fair enough, the artists time........all up what......a hundred bucks maybe?

Hey some bits of art are brilliant like the ones with old gnarly trees and an old shed but some is just rubbish........but you see, its all in the eye of the beholder isnt it.

But irrelevant of that, why would anyone pay more for a painting than what it actually cost to make??????????????????????

I mean nobody pays me any more than what my job is worth.

 

[Pander Bear]

why would anybody pay more than the cost of raw materials for a computer... oh wait, for the application and configuration of those materials. Duh.

 

[thujone]

I dont want to blow your mind dude, but there are only a handful of art threads on the first page of SO.... Why is posting in Second Opinons not working for you?

SO is excellent, but the fact that art threads have so many other types of threads to compete within SO is probably the very reason why there aren't that many art-related threads on the first page. The poll shows that over 50% of the people interested enough in this idea to actually enter this thread of many are willing to add content. If there is demand for it, it seems only reasonable that the content would draw attention. Especially in a community where mind-bending substances are the norm, it only seems rational that a subforum full of accessible, tangible art would draw a lot of purveyors.

Thje fact that there exist other forums for music and writing should have no bearing on this discussion by the way. Following that logic, there ought to be a literature forum, a sports forum, a games forum, a technology forum, ad infinitum, but there don't have to be.

But then, what logic brought about the creation of the Arts subforums that already exist? It just seems odd that a section labeled Arts & Entertainment has space for two music forums but no space for a category that would not only encompass the discussion of visual art but also provide another way to categorize threads containing images for BL followers to get right at what they want. Everyone loves images, so if this subforum existed the content would already involve BLers when they get bored reading text for an hour and wanna feast their eyes. Just some thoughts..

 

[alasdairm]

The poll shows that over 50% of the people interested enough in this idea to actually enter this thread of many are willing to add content. If there is demand for it, it seems only reasonable that the content would draw attention.

with respect, it's the easiest thing in the world to click a button which says "i'd participate in an art forum".

in an attempt to put this in perspective i had a look at the number of art-related threads started in second opinion by those in this thread who are in support of such a forum (about 14 posters). there are 5000 threads in second opinion right now and i found 6.

i guess my point is that if the people in this thread arguing for such a forum aren't starting art-related threads, who's to say anybody will?

i just do not see the demand.

But then, what logic brought about the creation of the Arts subforums that already exist? It just seems odd that a section labeled Arts & Entertainment has space for two music forums but no space for a category that would not only encompass the discussion of visual art...

at the risk of repetition, that section used to contain an art forum but the forum was closed due to lack of traffic. given the point i made above, why would an art forum v2.0 be successful where the previous one was not?

alasdair

 

[Pander Bear]

6 threads, kept afloat by a handful of posters. Sorry I think the idea of even a sub-forum, at this time, is absurd. Maybe if the gallery is closed, maybe.

 

[wesmdow]

with respect, it's the easiest thing in the world to click a button which says "i'd participate in an art forum"

i guess my point is that if the people in this thread arguing for such a forum aren't starting art-related threads, who's to say anybody will?

i just do not see the demand.

i say they will, because right now they dont have anywhere to post their shit thats WORTH THE EFFORT.

i have loads of art, but its not worth it if i just get ONE post in ONE thread devoted to something i worked on for weeks/months.... and i feel that MOST artists will agree.

people (especially drug users) make a lot of art, if there were a forum devoted to showing off/critiques/criticisms, then i think those of us who havent previously felt inclined to participate, would.

thats where I see the demand

 

[Pander Bear]

you could have like...started a thread here. Or did you need an invitation.

I'm sorry if im being combative, really. But people are now coming out of the woodwork moaning about how their creative voices are being stifled. Why didn't any of you show 1/10th the initiative it took to actually create any of that art, and just start a damn thread about it?

 

[alasdairm]

^ indeed

i say they will, because right now they dont have anywhere to post their shit thats WORTH THE EFFORT.

worth what effort, wesmdow? it takes the same amount of effort to post a thread, say, here in second opinion as it does anywhere else.

i have loads of art, but its not worth it if i just get ONE post in ONE thread devoted to something i worked on for weeks/months.... and i feel that MOST artists will agree.

how is having a dedicated forum going to change this at all?

if there were a forum devoted to showing off/critiques/criticisms, then i think those of us who havent previously felt inclined to participate, would.

why?

alasdair

 

[ego_loss]

Before more of you get your panties in a bunch, please understand that three of the people instrumental in the life of the forum formerly known as Visual & Performing Arts all seem to be in agreement that, while a noble idea, it is not one that is really viable in this community.

Chrissie and I both took part in the creation and nurturing of that forum. I later brought on Alasdair in the hopes that his yin to my yang would bring a little more life into the place.

VPA was started with the idea of giving the various visual artists of Bluelight a forum to discuss and display their craft. We did what we could to get the forum going. Aside from some random art discussions, most of the posts were movie and TV related. The few art threads that we did get were just someone saying "here, look at my work and tell me what you think". There was never any real worthwhile discussion about the actual craft outside of a couple random threads that stagnated rapidly.

Eventually the arts portion was removed and it was made into the Film & Television forum, and all relevant art discussions were relegated to SO, where, up until now, they seemed to fit quite nicely.

As someone who tried very hard to get people interested, I am saying that there isn't a need for an art forum on BL.

If you have that much of a need to share your art with the world, perhaps you could join one of the plethora of communities that are devoted strictly to that subject (and there are dozens of them out there). Not only will your work be welcomed in such a place... chances are the discussions will be far more worthwhile than any you'd get here at BL.

 

[mariacallas]

^+1.

 

[TheLoveBandit]

Very well stated by ego_loss, especially with the perspective of an enthusiastic V&P promoter, and a person who saw the reasons why it didn't work on this site.


I'll voice my own opinion, but it is the same thought that drives any new forum creations. We don't build a forum and hope people come - we see the discussions overcrowding an existing home for the content and meet that need by creating another forum to move that lively bit of discussion to. As alasdairm points out, art discussions are *not* dominating this forum nor showing a real need to have their own home.

The argument that such threads are stifled amongst the other SO threads is without substance. If the art threads were created (in their current accommodating home of SO) - those fervent supporters of the concept would ought to be active enough in the discussions to make it noticable. You would see the threads constantly near the top of the forum based on replies, you would see a multitude of threads discussing the various facets of the subject matter. Right now, you see under 10 threads, with limited participation (with the exception of the weekly photo threads - which I love, btw).

It always comes back to the basic philosophy of how our site evolves - members show the need (not talk about a need, but actually post and generate discussions to SHOW the need), and then we'll see if it warrants any forum modifications. For now, the need isn't shown. I would suggest you be the change you wish to see (nod to Gandhi for borrowing his words). Get out there, generate the discussions and show the need - DO SOMETHING. Until then, you're just talking about doing something.

 

[Pander Bear]

what of the lamentable state of the gallery, fearless leader?

 

[pennywise]

While I would like to see an art forum and would also participate in one were it created, I understand that it may not be a viable option at this point.

Furthermore, I'm not inclined to push the issue, seeing as this here discussion board is provided free-of-charge. That doesn't really leave me in a place to demand anything.

:D :D

 

[SA]

Pennywise, while I do not agree with you that you shouldn't be able to demand (or ask nicely) for all tools necessary for an enjoyable experience on Bl simply because you are "freeloading" here, I will agree that a separate Arts forum does not seem to be a viable option at this time.

As TLB correctly pointed out, it's more a case of create the discussion and the forum will come, rather than create the forum and the discussion will come. Roads are built to facilitate existing traffic, not the reverse.

Myself, I would definitely love to see an Arts forum here. Much art has been created while under the enlightening influence of one substance or another, so to see displays of art on Bluelight would be as fitting as place as any I could imagine. I used to do chalk art back in the day. I carved mini sculptures - everything from a single rose to entire cities of ancient Greece - out of big blocks of chalk, which I couldn't find any more once I emigrated. I did dabble a bit with sidewalk chalk when I came here, but it just wasn't the same any more. I also took chalk to paper and did a few works, a couple of which are still out there, but gave that up too quite fast.

So, yes, I'd love to see more art discussion from this community. Bring the discussion and, perhaps with time, BL will bring us an Arts forum. The discussion is most welcome here in SO.

 

[TheLoveBandit]

In all honesty, I'd like to see such a forum as well. But I'll admit I do nothing to further prove the NEED for it, as my online time is spent on other things (as evidenced by my complete lack of participation or even observation of the weekly pic contest that I admire). If I were counting my dreams, yeah, such a forum would probably be on my wish list. But at this point in time, there isn't a real NEED for it.

p-wise - SA resounds my thoughts, in that free doesn't mean you have to lump it or leave it. In fact, without the issue being raised, there wouldn't be a discussion or understanding of what's possible or why it may happen or not. Discussion is good But discussion only goes so far - then it becomes a matter of DO, not SAY So even being a 'freeloader' you are all encouraged to DO, as that is really the foundation of this site - member input makes us wonderful, or makes us crap. So DO, and make the changes you guys desire become a reality by making the site into that reality.

atlas - in what sense? In saying "Shaddup and use the gallery"? In reviewing the GALLERY for upgrades or enhancements to accomodate more than 'hey, nice pic'? In scrapping it whilst creating VPA v2.0? What do you mean?

as to the fearless (clueless? ) leader comment, I am but one of 6 Admins who decide as a group what changes will or won't happen. I'm in this thread like everyone else, as a member of this community, expressing my opinion. Because I say it won't be created is less a reflection of a site-controlling admin and more a reflection of a member of this community who has seen how it grows or not, and how the member input and activities are the key factors for making this site become more than it is today.

 

[QuestionEverything]

Ok, so I see the point that you all are making about contributing more discussion if a forum is wanted, and I do agree. My only concern would be that we would actually be able to start more specific threads without deletion, if so - time to step up. By this I mean, are threads going to be locked and people pointed to the broad discussion threads already in existence?

I remember a lot of photoshop contests when I was around and visited the V&PA forum similar to the photography ones now. It would be nice to bring those sorts of things back, I mean, why stop at photography? I'm not much of a photoshop person myself (i only have access to it at school), but any medium could be covered really.

I just wanted to point out that my personal reason for not starting more art related threads is because I got the impression that there was the Modern art thread, the Share your work thread, and the gallery - and generally speaking, there wasn't any want for more than that in SO. I guess I was mistaken. I now know there is, so I will contribute more.

I personally would love to see more weekly contests (or something along those lines) up and running.

 

[Pander Bear]

atlas - in what sense? In saying "Shaddup and use the gallery"? In reviewing the GALLERY for upgrades or enhancements to accomodate more than 'hey, nice pic'? In scrapping it whilst creating VPA v2.0? What do you mean?

I'd like to see it gone no matter what the intention is. I know I'm not privy to the conversations and information that you are, but its apparent that the gallery is a liability and a data burden. Bluelight can offload the responsibility for image hosting to other parties. I hate using the gallery to find pics. The search never seems to work, the categories are unnavigable, the comment system is lacking. I just don't get the ease of use in the gallery that I get in the board. Its less intuitive. Meanwhile, most pics posted in the lounge picture threads are hosted in bluelighter's private image hosting sites.

Threads in forums, and in people's flickr, pohotobucket, imagefap , et cetera seem to be the most intuitive way, and the easiest way.