thanks guys, i think you've justified my point here.
anyway, i have a whole bunch of things to say:
Originally posted by BloSs0m
I don't know what it is about images... But i think images are something special. Call me an art geek whatever... BUt, I find am affected by images, perhaps more than words (they do say a picture tells a thousand words).
and you're spot on. that's exactly why this one, tiny image has caused more controversy than any of the 5,000 or so posts that i've made in the last year or two. as you've pointed out, it's there to make a point, and images are very powerful instigators.
btw, have you read 'camera lucida' by roland barthes? you should; it's the best book on photography ever written :D </ego>
I don't think even ten years ago, this would be acceptable. And, i honestly don't think it is now. I'm all for respecting yourself, and those aroudn you. And, this isn't either.
i entirely disagree with this moralistic crusade kind of opinion, and i don't think there's any place for it. who's to say what defines what self-respect or respect for others is? i would imagine that there are conventional views on what's respectable and what's not, but it's not always so black and white; the vast majority of society views the use of illegal drugs as a thing which people with no self-respect do, yet i would imagine that most people here wouldn't hold that point of view.
i don't think there's a right nor a wrong here, really; what i *do* think is that self-respect is exactly that: something that needs to be decided by yourself.
Originally posted by Mary Poppins
what would art be if it was another area which people could censor everything *they* deemed aesthetically appealing? the purpose isn't solely to expose beauty and pleasant images - it is also to push people's boundaries by exposure to images that they would not see in their day to day existence.
exactly, freedom of expression: the world would be a dull place if everybody thought the same way.
i understand it is your prerogative to be offended by whatever image you choose distasteful- but more important that this I think is to have the ability to express yourself and also to not just pander to what you, society, or others deem as "acceptable". 1234's old avatar was of a doll being hung and i found that more disturbing [though still didn't really care] than an oversized asshole.
mary poppins, you've effectively covered my point of view. and i'm really glad you brought up the hanging doll avatar that i used to have: though *most* people don't/didn't seem to find it anywhere near as offensive as mister goatse, i agree with you in that i also think it's more disturbing. but it echoed how i was feeling at the time, and i was also using it to express the fact that i don't see being depressed as anything to be ashamed of. plus the picture was damn cool.
Originally posted by BloSs0m
It's true, that images can and always will help us appreciate the true beauty, and the true mindset of individuals. They will always help us establish views and ideas, and generate conversation about issues and will expose us to things we haven't chosen, or thought to think about. And i understand that 1234 has achieved exactly what he set out to do. And possibly more, i'm finding this one of the most interesting threads around at the moment, because it reveals so much about us as people in how we feel aobut these types of confrontational images when we face them in day to day life.
spot on. i'm glad that someone as reasonable as you was the one to start it; there's been some wonderful discussion.
MP - I understand how grotesque images and images which use shock tatics to make a point are important. But it still doesn't mean i enjoy looking at them. I will look at them, i will absorb their message, but generally, i won't enjoy it. And all i have ever expressed in this thread is how i don't like it, and how these images make me feel.
I myself, i know that i haven't been exposed to pictures like this, i will admit i am some what sheltered when it comes down to it.
And no, I had not seen this image before.
I don't want to single out or victimise 1234, he is just the most obvious example at the moment. And i don't like those other images either. Especially when it appears that they are being used simply to get individual attention, rather than to make a concious point - which 1234 has since demonstrated was his aim.
I haven't mentioned inforcing rules. The sole purpose of this thread (if you read my first post) was to generate discussion about this (and as has happenned, any other explicit) avatar(s). I don't appreciate looking at them in any sense - be it people deep penetrating other people or a gaping anus, but i know i can't make them change it. But i can talk about why i don't appreciate looking at them, how these images affect me and make me feel. And I can have a discussion about the wider topic at hand - where i need to think about the ideas behind the image.
Which ultimately, i can assume was 1234s aim.
i respect your point of view, but i respectfully disagree. don't worry, i definitely don't take your criticisms personally (i have the avatar for a reason, and that reason means i can take any criticism i get). i think what i really wonder about this is *why* you dislike it? if it's just aesthetics, fair enough, but i don't think that's much of a reason (
). as in, there are ugly things that we see every day: i walk around my university and see ugly buildings; i walk down the street (or look in the mirror for that matter
) and i see ugly people; i turn on the news and i see ugly arguments about ugly issues... the world is, a lot of the time, an ugly place. whilst i can understand you not wanting to look at things that you consider ugly, i think it's a rather unhealthy way to view the world, and ultimately leads to a skewed and 'sheltered' (to use your very word
) outlook on life.
not to even
mention the issue of whether it's *actually* really all that ugly? isn't it sort of interesting? christ, i realise i'm more than a little disturbed from growing up with a dad who was a funeral director (good old corpse fun for all! :D), but i don't see the human body as anything all that disturbing. sure, i could think of better things to spend my lunchtime looking at, but when it all comes down to it, we're all made of the same stuff: we all eat and talk and drink and shit and piss and fuck and do all sorts of crazy shit with each other. and a lot of it revolves around our bodies.
it's not so simple as to just say 'it's a human body, get over it' - i realise that. there's such a thing as context. but to be totally honest, i find the reaction to something that is effectively just a picture of a body part that we all possess (though, perhaps, hopefully not quite as gracefully open for business as goatse's) a tad excessive. interesting though, very interesting.
also, dreamtime: you make a very valid point. whilst, like i mentioned in response to mary poppins, i definitely did this to make a bit of a point, or at least arouse some interesting reactions regarding censorship/desensitisation/perspective, i'm certainly not so pretentious as to claim any further depth to it. i've always been a person that's interested in getting reactions to things that people might find controversial, but i can assure you that this isn't exactly the most high-brow of my experiments. it was, effectively, just an off the cuff little thing i thought of when reading through that original thread in the lounge - so really, it wasn't even my idea (i stole it from mysticalis!). ultimately, i'm just interested in people's reactions, and i realised this would provoke them; it's the other people who are interesting, i'm just
interested.
![:\](https://bluelight.org/xf/BL_Images/Orig_Emoji/wrygrin.gif "wry grin :\")
