Why shouldn't I get the swine flu vaccine?

[Sentience]

In fact, it's much less than dying from complications of taking a fucking shower.

This statement is false. I have seen estimates for the regular flu vaccine with serious life threatening reactions occurring at about 1 in 100,000 to 1 in 1,000,000. Not really a high risk at all and most people wont experience any side effects other than local site reactions and maybe some other aches and pains. Still, fewer than 1 death per million showers occur as a direct result of taking a shower so I have to call BS and say that getting the vaccine is significantly more dangerous than taking a shower.

Back in the 70s during the last swine flu vaccine that was released, events of Guillian Barr occured at aboout a rate of 1 in 100,000 and resulted in at least 25 deaths and many more sick with neurological damage. That year more people died from the vaccine than died from the swine flu. This is mostly attributed to the fact that the epidemic never happened but a large number were vaccinated against it anyway.

And if you just dont feel like getting sick, then go ahead and get the vaccine.

I am in a special demographic as I have a serious auto-immune condition and have been advised to avoid vaccines in general, but that just applies to me. It doesnt necessarily apply to you.


I already got the swine flu and it sucked. I hated it and I missed a week of class. I dont plan on getting the regular flu shot though.

 

[nuke]

Risk of death from swine flu: 1 in 100
Risk of death from swine flu vaccine: unknown, probably obscenely low... risk of Guillain-Barré syndrome 1 in 1,000,000 (GBS can be caused by any infection in general though, including flus)

In terms of risk it's pretty obvious.

 

[Sentience]

Risk of death from swine flu: 1 in 100

Lol.
No its not. Especially not in a young health adult. High risk populations include children and the elderly and pregnant women and the immune compromised. Your risk of dying if you get the swine flu is NOT 1%. lol.

 

[Transcendence]

Lol.
No its not. Especially not in a young health adult. High risk populations include children and the elderly and pregnant women and the immune compromised. Your risk of dying if you get the swine flu is NOT 1%. lol.

NO, this is wrong. I don't understand why seemingly intelligent people like yourself keep repeating this misinformation when the facts are at your fingertips. I can understand people being confused about high risk groups when swine flu first emerged, but it's been with us for at least 6 months now.

Unlike seasonal flu, the elderly are not at high risk. Young adults are at the highest risk. You are however correct that pregnant women are in the high risk group. Furthermore, there are many cases of young adults in their twenties in critical condition (placed on ventilators, etc) who are in perfect health except for mild, controlled asthma.

http://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/qa.htm

Nearly 80% of hospitalizations due to swine flu involve patients under 50 years of age.

 

[Sentience]

No. While the swine flu is more likely to cause cytokine storm in people in their prime than in the very young or elderly, the at risk populations are still getting hit the hardest. Its a little more distributed through the younger age groups compared to seasonal flu, but the high risk populations are still high risk. Most of the young people who have died are pregnant women who had secondary complications like asthma or pneumonia.

And 1% death rate isnt even in the right ballpark.

 

[Prodigycan]

I find it either hilarious or deeply sad (perhaps both) that most Bluelighters will put nearly any substance (pharm, street drug, RC, whatever) into their bodies to get a buzz but refuse to get a vaccine because they think it's not "100% safe". The risk of dying from complications of the vaccine is much less than the risk of dying from complications from the flu. In fact, it's much less than dying from complications of taking a fucking shower.

The risk of death from swine flu is real (especially for HEALTHY YOUNG ADULTS), but slim. It's been said a million times, but people still don't seem to understand the concept: you shouldn't get the vaccine because you're afraid of death, you should get it to prevent yourself from getting violently sick and to prevent others around you from getting sick.

This is doubly true if you attend university. No matter how strong your immune system is, you will probably get the flu this year if you're a college student. You will spread it to your friends and your family like an asshole because you think that everything is a government conspiracy. You will miss classes and your grades will suffer.

is there risk from dying from a shower? i never heard of that, please tell me about it. sounds interesting

 

[Transcendence]

Slip and Fall accidents kill roughly 20,000 Americans per year. Many of these accidents occur in the shower.

Of course, it's mostly the elderly so perhaps it isn't the best example to use. However, my point is that many people die from normal, routine activities that one would never think to worry about. Avoiding a vaccine that will prevent you from getting very sick because there is a 1 in 1000000 chance that it could cause health complications is inane. You have a much higher chance of suffering "complications" from innumerate activities, substances, or situations that you encounter everyday.

Odds of dying in a transport accident: 1 in 22
Odds of being killed by hot tap water: 1 in 88,631
Odds of being killed by a spider: 1 in 381,114
Odds of dying from falling from your bed: 1 in 4,239
Odds of being killed by lightning: 1 in 79,399
Odds of dying in an explosion: 1 in 25,926
Odds of dying in a fireworks explosion: 1 in 952,786

http://www.nsc.org/research/odds.aspx

 

[Sentience]

Slip and Fall accidents kill between 16,000-20,000 Americans per year. Many of these accidents occur in the shower.

How many of them happen in the shower? How many are not associated with another more serious condition but specifically to the act of taking a shower?


Supposedly 11,000 of those 16,000 slip and fall deaths happen to people 75 years of age or older. Of the 5,000 left, few if any are likely to have occurred to a normal healthy person in the shower without a complicating disease or disorder or when intoxication was not present, specially because of the shower.

Taking is a shower is NOT more dangerous than getting the swine flu vaccine. Not only that, but people takes hundreds of showers a year vs 1 vaccine per year. I cant find a single source that says how many people slipped specifically in the shower.

 

[Sentience]

Nearly 80% of hospitalizations due to swine flu involve patients under 50 years of age.

You are confusing rates of infection with risk of complications after getting the disease. They are not necessarily correlated.

The elderly are not the only high risk population though. Pregnant women and children with asthma are also high risk populations.

 

[nuke]

And 1% death rate isnt even in the right ballpark.

As of today, worldwide,

644,555 confirmed cases,
6,552 confirmed deaths,

(6,552/644,555)*100% = ~1% fatality rate.

In the US,
65,221 confirmed cases,
1,396 confirmed deaths,

(1,396/65,221)*100% = ~2% fatality rate.

 

[Transcendence]

How many of them happen in the shower? How many are not associated with another more serious condition but specifically to the act of taking a shower?


Supposedly 11,000 of those 16,000 slip and fall deaths happen to people 75 years of age or older. Of the 5,000 left, few if any are likely to have occurred to a normal healthy person in the shower without a complicating disease or disorder or when intoxication was not present, specially because of the shower.

Taking is a shower is NOT more dangerous than getting the swine flu vaccine. Not only that, but people takes hundreds of showers a year vs 1 vaccine per year. I cant find a single source that says how many people slipped specifically in the shower.

If you read past the first sentence of my last post you would have seen that I wrote almost the exact same thing you just did. I don't mean to sound snarky, but please get over the shower thing. I admitted it wasn't the best example. I think my point was clearly iterated above.

 

[Sentience]

No, it wasnt the best example.

And as for that 1% death rate....The problem with using "confirmed cases" is that the only cases that are going to be confirmed are the ones that go to the hospital. Most people I know did not go to the doctor when they got the flu. Even if most people do go to the doctor, which is debatable, they are not testing everyone for the Swine Flu but in most countries are treating it like the regular flu without confirming which strain it is. This would suggest that only the most serious cases are being "confirmed".

In the US there are 65,221 confirmed cases, but in reality there are probably millions who have been infected. At least several hundred thousand.



The vaccine is statistically a lot less dangerous than the flu itself (IF you catch it, please see below), plus the flu is just miserable even if it doesnt kill you. However, I get sick of the hyperbole on both sides. There IS a risk from getting the vaccine. Its a small risk, but I believe it should be an individual decision.


If we were to believe that only 65,221 have been infected, then we might conclude that there has only been slightly more than a 1 in 5000 chance that you will even get the H1N1 flu. That would make it a 1 in 500,000 chance of dying from the swine flu (if you only have a 1/5000 chance of getting it plus a 1% death rate which is way too high factoring unconfirmed cases). If there is 1 in 100,000 chance of getting Guillian bar syndrome from th swine flu vaccine (That was the rate from the previous swine flu vaccine, though seasonal flu is even rarer), then the risk of getting Gullian Barr Syndrome from the vaccine would actually be greater than the risk of dying from the swine flu.


However, if you want the vaccine then get the vaccine. Dont do it because you are afraid of death though. Do it because you dont want to miss a week of school or work and will take the small risk of the vaccine to avoid the inconvenience. The risk is very low either way.

 

[heroin]

Don't get it. If you think about it unless you die within a 72 hours period of taking the vacine it won't be taken into consideration that it could have been from the vaccine. Also since this is a relatively new vaccine it's long term affects have not been studied yet so who know if in 10 years you wont get sick and die. Also if any complications occur the ones involved with creating the flu get off scot free.

 

[Sentience]

Yeah, the risks are yet unknown. Still, that doesnt mean that I believe that there is a high chance of adverse reactions. I think there is probably very small chance of adverse reactions which may or may not outweigh the risk of the N1H1 flu for your demographic depending on the number of people who get it divided by the population you live in.

I still dont think the vaccine is all that dangerous and the swine flu does suck and can ruin a college intersession (take it from me, as I had it). Still, there is a risk of adverse reactions which can outweigh the risk of serious complications from the flu itself by using basic numbers (If a lot more people are vaccinated than would have gotten the disease, even a less likely reaction becomes more common by sheer numbers of people exposed).

Questions that remain unanswered however are things like whether it is safe in pregnancy. There have been a grand total of 0 studies evaluating the effects this vaccine will have on a fetus. That doesnt mean it will automatically give your child a third eye or 6th toe, but we just dont know what the risks are yet.


And young people are more likely to get the disease because older people have been exposed to the 76 swine flu and are already immune, not because the virus seeks out younger people only. There is a risk of cytokine storm (Also associated with the vaccine) with H1N1 flu, and that occurs even in what is traditionally smaller risk populations like older children, but that is still a small consideration and unlikely compared to more serious complications resulting from having asthma for example or being immune compromised.

 

[alanwatts]

I've already had my bout with flu this season- I don't know if it was H1N1 or the more common "Seasonal Flu". I didn't have much of a high temp. That never became an issue. What I did have was a very nasty sore throat that lasted for more than a week. I actually lost my voice for more than 24 hours. I still have a little bit of a cough- what I would call the lingering crud. I'm a 45 year old male- I have heard that the H1N1 is targeting the younger crowd- The teenagers who have not experienced a severe infection before. I'm old enough to have been exposed to earlier versions of Swine Flu- and probably still have antigens to similar viruses- like the Swine Flu of 1976!!!!!!!

A friend in the area has 2 young girls and all 4 members of this family came down with the flu at the same time. One of the girls' fevers reached 104F- A potentially dangerous level. They confirmed that it was H1N1. They are currently on the mend however!

 

[Sentience]

Most of the time you can bring down a high fever with over the counter fever reducers like Ibuprofen or Tylenol. Its not usually a big deal in todays age with access to emergency care.

 

[Transcendence]

Don't get it. If you think about it unless you die within a 72 hours period of taking the vacine it won't be taken into consideration that it could have been from the vaccine. Also since this is a relatively new vaccine it's long term affects have not been studied yet so who know if in 10 years you wont get sick and die. Also if any complications occur the ones involved with creating the flu get off scot free.

Everyday you ingest hundreds to thousands of chemicals that have had no long term studies on health. The vaccine is no different than the seasonal flu vaccine (except for the virus used) which has been around for many years and has not shown a significant number of long term side effects. If people suddenly drop dead for no apparent reason a week or two weeks or a month after getting the vaccine, of course the vaccine would be taken into consideration. Why would you think it wouldn't?

Questions that remain unanswered however are things like whether it is safe in pregnancy. There have been a grand total of 0 studies evaluating the effects this vaccine will have on a fetus. That doesnt mean it will automatically give your child a third eye or 6th toe, but we just dont know what the risks are yet.

Mounting evidence shows that immunizing pregnant women for seasonal flu benefits not only the mother, but also the infant, and even the fetus.

If this is true for seasonal flu vaccine, it is true for the swine flu vaccine. The difference between the swine flu vaccine and the seasonal flu vaccine is equivalent to the difference between seasonal flu vaccine of one year to another. The "novel H1N1" vaccine is produced exactly the same way that the normal H1N1 vaccine is produced every year.

 

[Sentience]

I dont think the vaccine is that dangerous. Whether the vaccine ultimately harms a larger number of individuals than the virus will depends on how big of an epidemic the virus is. If only 1 million people get the virus but 300 million are forced to be vaccinated for it, more deaths and adverse reactions will be caused by the vaccine than the virus.

Still, I am not saying that the vaccine is some horrible thing that will kill you. I mean, it might. You could also win the lottery. You are more likely to get hit by a car on both accounts.

Get the vaccine if you want to. It may help you avoid feeling shitty for a week. Dont get the vaccine if you dont want to. You might not have gotten sick anyway, and while the risk of the vaccine is tiny its more risk than none. It can also give you mild flu symptoms as part of the immune reaction to the virus, but a lot less than actually having an infectious strain of it will.

The swine flu is turning out to be LESS dangerous than the regular flu if you catch it. Apparently it has weakened since it left Mexico, or the simple availability of OTC fever reduces has made the difference in the US.

The biggest reason why it is targeting young people is because anyone older than 33 could have cross immunity from the 76-77 strain that was going around and may even have been vaccinated.

The section of virus proteins used for the H1N1 vaccine has never been used before in a vaccine. Everything else is the same except for the possible addition of Squalene, an immune stimulant. Its not being used in the 2009 vaccine for the United States though. It is being used in Australia.

 

[Jblazingphoenix100]

A healthy twenty year old doesnt have much more chance of dying from swine flu than regular seasonal flu. Im also around your age and im getting it because im in a health profession... but otherwise i probably wouldnt bother. Its most beneficial for those people in high risk categories

what he said...seriously - don't worry about it.. I know loads of people who have had it...and I don't know anyone who's died from it.

I personally think a lot of vaccines are more harmful than whatever they're treating..with the flu - at least it's a strain of flu...and we already know a shitload about flu...wheras the vaccines created against swine flu - well..don't know fuck all about them...

So why risk THAT? I not had a vaccine for ANYTHING in over 10 years.

 

[QuestionEverything]

what he said...seriously - don't worry about it.. I know loads of people who have had it...and I don't know anyone who's died from it.

I personally think a lot of vaccines are more harmful than whatever they're treating..with the flu - at least it's a strain of flu...and we already know a shitload about flu...wheras the vaccines created against swine flu - well..don't know fuck all about them...

So why risk THAT? I not had a vaccine for ANYTHING in over 10 years.

We DO know about them though. There is SO much paranoia and misinformation out there about this vaccine [and to be fair, the H1N1 virus too], it's just sad really. The regular seasonal flu vaccine you get every year is different *every year*, using 3 different strains in the one vaccine every year. Does that make everyone go all conspiracy theory and OMGZ! every year? No.

Don't you guys find it a bit hypocritical to be (as someone already posted) ingesting various drugs but as soon as something like a vaccine is mentioned you go, "OMG, NOOOO, I'm not putting THAT in MY body?!?!"

It's your personal choice. I don't care if you get it or not, but at least educate yourself and separate the facts from the fiction before you make that choice. Isn't that part of BL's mission in the first place?