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Opioids Why aren't there ER or non-APAP versions of hydrocodone?

Harrisment said:
I'm one of those people that actually prefers hydrocodone over oxycodone. Oxy just makes me want to lay down and do nothing, while hydro makes me energetic and social.
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that is interesting, it is usually the other way around. Oxy is usually considered more stimulating than Hydro.. but everyone is different i suppose. %)
 
I'm kind of backwards, I guess. I used to find oxy more effective, but then I asked my doc to give my hydro instead, and for the first few months, the hydro was not as good (not as good relief; shorter acting), but eventually, it started to work better for me and I actually prefer hydro over oxy at this point.

I generally do cold water extractions to avoid the crappy APAP. At first I wasted a lot of product, but with practice I was able to get a very high yield with very low APAP contamination.

Chris
 
Originally Posted by blackjesus
im sorry i realize now neither of you knew hydrocodone was so closely related codeine. hydrocodone is a synthetic derivitive increased potency, decreased side effects; sort of like a prodrug, the way valtrex is related to acyclovir. let that also be added to the record.


to further elaborate:


you're exactly right, except that codeine is a natural derivative & not itself an opioid alone. im not too sure about drug scheduling, as i find them fundamentally impeding, i mean illegal is illegal no matter how you categorize it.
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If you are going to be condescending at least know that the fuck you are talking about. You have repeatedly sounded like an idiot and your posts have been valueless throughout this discussion. Hopefully talking down to everyone has made you feel better though.

I am with the people who think that hydrocodone is more stimulating and euphoric than oxycodone. I take 2-4 (as needed) 10/325 of hc a day and it works wonders for my shoulder. I have taken oxycontin at times and the new formula which is much harder to abuse has caused me to actually take them as prescribed (orally) and I have found the experience to be much more enjoyable. It also lasts quite a long time (as intended).

I have found myself in the same boat wishing for an extended release hydrocodone as I can control my intake and don't find myself going over the deep end with them as I have done many times in the past with OC. The scheduling has been explained along with everything else. I just hope that the current drug trials result in a 30-40mg extended release schedule III hydrocodone. My life would be so much better.
 
Its done purely for scheduling purposes. They make it toxic so you wont use it recreationally if you have a tolerance. They save you from addiction by making sure your liver fails and you drop dead before you get high. How kind of them.

Because there is no version that is free of APAP, somehow they can justify putting it in a different category. Hydrocodone is actually quite pleasant, softer than oxycodone and lighter than morphine. People would use more of it if it didnt have apap. However, it would overall be less harmful to their body.
 
xxallgoodxx said:
There is a controlled release formula of Hydrocodone in clinical trials. It does not contain Acetaminophen or anything else other than Hydrocodone.

"Drug: Hydrocodone bitartrate

dosage form: capsule

Strengths 10mg, 20mg, 30mg, 40mg, 50mg
Other Name: HC-CR"

http://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/s...m=Zogenix+hydrocodone&rank=1&show_locs=Y#locn
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Well that sounds promising. I see that they are recruiting in the city where I live. Maybe I should try to get in on that. :)
 
I'm pretty sure one of the reasons they put apap in them is because by law if it's by itself it falls into a higher schelduling category.
 
Harrisment said:
Well that sounds promising. I see that they are recruiting in the city where I live. Maybe I should try to get in on that. :)
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You should definitely check it out if you qualify. They give you up to a 50 mg Hydrocodone 12 hr Controlled Release. It uses the SODAS drug delivery system like is used on Avinza, Focalin, and Ritalin LA.
 
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JamtasticX said:
I'm pretty sure one of the reasons they put apap in them is because by law if it's by itself it falls into a higher schelduling category.
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Yeah, I understand that part of it. I just didn't understand why they don't release an APAP-free version that is Sched II, and keep the existing formulations Sched III.
 
^as I mentioned above, for most people available schedule II's are MORE effective for pain and hydrocodone is already generic so it would not be very profitable and most doctors would prescribe alternatives over it.
 
blackjesus said:
you're exactly right, except that codeine is a natural derivative & not itself an opioid alone. im not too sure about drug scheduling, as i find them fundamentally impeding, i mean illegal is illegal no matter how you categorize it.
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I'm sorry but you are mistaken. Codeine is in and of itself an Opiate, as well as an Opioid. It is an Opiate due to the fact that it is directly derived from the Opium Poppy, which classifies it as a natural derivitive. It is an Opioid due to the fact that it exerts an effect on Opioid receptors. I think you may have gotten mixed up by Codeine's classification as a prodrug; it is converted to Morphine via metabolization by the liver. But it is still an Opioid nonetheless.


So many people ask this question, myself included, and I'd love to see an "HC80." But I agree with Cane2theLeft- Hydrocodone/APAP formulations are among the most common, best selling, highly available and minimally stigmatized [Opioid] painkillers on the market. I also am inclined to think that pharmaceutical companies don't see much potential profit from producing a new and more potent or concentrated Opiate formulation, considering all of the negative publicity over the years that surrounds drugs like Oxycodone and Fentanyl.
 
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xxallgoodxx said:
@morphonorconic Only a small percentage of Codeine is converted to Morphine, and Codeine is not a prodrug. Carisoprodol is a prodrug, for Meprobamate.

"A prodrug must undergo chemical conversion by metabolic processes before becoming an active pharmacological agent."
http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=23992
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Well yes, and no. Codeine is often listed as a pro-drug, as Codeine is metabolized into (the more potent alkaloid) Morphine, and however small the amount, it is still undergoing conversion/metabolization into what is ultimately a more potent analgesic, regardless of the percentage. Yes, Codeine by itself is active, and converts not only to Morphine but also Norcodeine and whatever other number of metabolites that are either relatively inactive or mildly active, I don't really know.

I think often people think of the term "pro-drug" as a description for a substance which is entirely physiologically inactive in until 'activated' via metabolic processes. I'm not sure everyone would agree with that definiton, basically the one you listed, and I can't say I agree with it either. Listing Codeine as a pro-drug merely defines its increased efficacy and benefically enhanced pharmacodynamics upon undergoing metabolization, in spite of the fact it is indeed mildly active on its own.

There's definitely no question as to whether or not Carisoprodol is a pro-drug for Meprobamate though. Every muscle in my body is screaming; I would absolutely love some Somas right about now. Or better yet, eighty-six the metabolic conversion, and go with the Miltown.=D
 
All I meant was that the percentage of Codeine that gets converted to Morphine is so small, that it's almost negligible ( ~5% ). My mistake (half awake) you're correct, Codeine is a prodrug. I just threw Soma out there, because it is a great example of a prodrug.


I wish I had some Soma's, too. I'll I've got is these dang 4 mg Tizanidines.:! They work better for curing consciousness, than relaxing muscles. 8)=D


Take it easy bro.
 
I would trade down from Opana IR's to ER Hydrocodone for pain.
As it is, after years of misuse but before most of my injuries, I took alot of APAP and now they are like immediate puke bombs for me, whereas I can put down several IR Opana's no problem, so I know it's not the strength, it's that they are hard on me.

I would really like to see equivalent hydro formulations to roxis and a continuos release version as well. Doctors should be stoked on it since you can't shoot it and there's no point in snortin it, built in anti-abuse basically.
 
Cane2TheLeft said:
^you bumped this for that?
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Oh I'm sorry, was the information I posted not worth bumping this thread? Because in a thread titled "Why aren't there ER or non-APAP versions of hydrocodone" I can't think of any information more worthy of a bump than information that directly addresses the purpose of this thread like my post did. They made the thread to ask why no ER hydrocodone existed, and I bumped the thread to tell them that one is in the works. There is literally no response that could have been more relevant to this thread, or more "bump worthy" than what I said. It'd be like if someone said "what's 2 + 2" and I posted "2 + 2 = 4". OBVIOUSLY it's relevant, and OBVIOUSLY it's worth a bump because it directly addresses and answers the question posed by the OP. The fact that you would question such a bump is absolutely astounding. And the OP didn't ask for proof, or sources, or anything. They just asked why one didn't exist, so I didn't feel it necessary to cite my sources because I assumed anyone who wanted more information on this topic would simply GOOGLE it. Silly me though.

I know you're going to want to lock this thread because I hurt your feelings and all you seem to do around here is lock threads, but don't because then you're going to inhibit people from being able to ask more questions about hydrocodone ER, and locking this thread would be an abuse of your mod powers (though that's not something you're a stranger to). If you have a problem with this post (no doubt you will), PM me but don't lock the thread and keep people from being able to discuss hydrocodone CR.

As far as sources go, since you seem to think my post is only worthy if I cite sources, here:

There are 2 hydrocodone CR's being developed. One is being developed by Cephalon. There will be doses of up to 90mg's for twice a day dosing. It will use OraGuardTM technology as a method of tamper resistance, which will utilize polymer coating on the actual hydrocodone particles. http://phx.corporate-ir.net/Externa...9MzU4OTAxfENoaWxkSUQ9MzUxNDM2fFR5cGU9MQ==&t=1

The other is manufactured by zogenix, and will come in doses up to 50mg twice a day. These will be capsules with an as-of-yet unknown tamper resistant technology. http://www.druglib.com/trial/12/NCT01081912.html
 
Cane2theLeft said:
^as I mentioned above, for most people available schedule II's are MORE effective for pain and hydrocodone is already generic so it would not be very profitable and most doctors would prescribe alternatives over it.
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Actually numerous studies have shown no real difference between the efficacy of hydrocodone and oxycodone (or other C2's), the only reason people percieve a difference is because up until now, hydrocodone has been available in very small dosages. As far as profitability goes, you're wrong there too. With the recent switch to OP's and enormous lossed market share experienced by purdue, there is a huge market for a new pain killer. And hydrocodone may be generic but guess what, when a company puts it into an extended release formulation, they can patent it again and sell it as brand only. Since doctors are terrified to prescribe oxycodone with all the bad press it's been getting, and they're hesitant to prescribe stronger opiates like hydromorphone,fentanyl, and oxymorphone, an extended release hydrocodone would be a welcomed product. And it would have enormous market share.

So lets see:

huge market of people looking for new pain med + doctors desperately looking for opiate to prescribe isn't stigmatized + cheapness of manufacture of hydrocodone + patented brand-only market control of hydrocodone only extended release med + Out the ass prices (at least as expensive as oxycontin was) which will be covered by ins. companies looking to cover a pain med that isn't oxycontin = Enormous Profits. Duh.
 
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