When Will Live Audiences Be Ready For Computer Mixing

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for ignorant pilheads its only about what comes out of the speakers. For those of us who know when some dipshit is using software on a laptop to beatmatch, it most certainly is not. I don't want to pay a 20 dollar cover charge to see something i could do myself at home.



By the way, do you think anyone who's not an A list dj (sasha, PvD, etc) would not get laughed off the stage if they showed up with just a laptop to play on?
 
I saw Ebon(of Sounds in Motion fame... he was on disc 2) perform solely on a laptop... he sat in a chair, and he had headphones on the WHOLE time... I know the guy personally, I've heard him play laptop/dj set hybrid that were pretty exciting but I recently saw him perform solely on a Laptop, and in all fairness it sounded like any DJ set that I normally hear--HOWEVER:

it was a machine performing... it was souless... had no heartbeat... there was no interaction with the crowd and as I stood there watching(which was pretty fucking boring, since he wasn't doing ANYTHING but sitting) I couldn't help but think "Geez, Justin... shoulda brought final scratch, or at least a CDJ or something... this is fucking putting me to sleep.)

the guy is a world class producer, whose tracks I have bought... whose person I know personally... and who I know spins AWESOME DJ sets... and this set SUCKED.

Maybe thats not indicative of MOST PCDJ's... but as of this time, noone has shown me otherwise... and I refuse to apologize for trying to keep people from defiling the image of DJ's further...

as far as I am concerned, Adam has to be one of the biggest snobs on this subject.. "it's not DJing... it's something else altogether.." as if it's superior... when in fact, noone has shown me anything even remotely interesting about it...

I'm one of those people who refuse to pay even 5 bucks to see a mediocre DJ... I refuse to see half assed DJ's... and anymore, I almost refuse to listen to anything that isn't mixed on 3-4 decks, with LOADS of tracks involved.

Chalk up some more pretense for the pillhe... er, Progressive heads.
 
and by the way, saying "prove it" isn't snobbery edited... personal attacks not needed --it's called a challenge... the same one which was issued to me, incedentally... yet noone called that person on their "snobbery"
 
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ick, i would so not enjoy going to see a dj and have him sitting at a lame computer...
 
Originally posted by Mystic Styles
By the way, do you think anyone who's not an A list dj (sasha, PvD, etc) would not get laughed off the stage if they showed up with just a laptop to play on?

Actually, they wouldn't. There is a large laptop community out here in Portland. And they frequently have laptop battles in Seattle, Portland, San Francisco, and many other cites.

It is larger than you know.

http://www.laptopbattle.org/
 
haste - nice post. :) Roliepolie, I don't even disagree with you, but it's almost like your finding new reasons to hate it with every post! Chill mon, 'course there will be some crap, doesn't mean the concept is crap, it just means that some people haven't quite got there yet! 8o LOL! I agree. Some people will NEVER get there no matter how awesome the technology is.

My bottom line is this: play kick-ass music and the mixing will take care of itself. You could trainwreck every mix, but if the tunes were good enough, people would forgive you.

There's far too many average tunes going around. Combine them with average DJ skills and you've got serious yawn-factor. I don't pay for that, I just hang-back and wait till some crazy mofo comes my way and I rarely get let down. Matthew Herbert in 2 weeks!
 
I would pay to see Amon Tobin do a laptop set... or Dabrye... Prefuse 73... etc, but they DON'T do a laptop set... they use hardware... as well as software... but they can also throw down a DJ set if paid to...

simple answer: some people can pull it off BECAUSE THEY ARE *ALREADY* cutting edge... not to BE cutting edge... there is a huge difference. AND these people have proven themselves.

The times I have seen Sasha have been a disappointment, and I was watching him MIX records... and ya know, if someone already bores me, seeing them do even less will be downright dreadful.

the folks that I party with don't forgive a trainwreck. that's because people who spin 4/4 music only trainwreck if they are:

A. a bullshit, talentless DJ
B. lazy
C. tired from playing for 2 weeks straight
D. Sasha = all of the above.
 
Originally posted by Mystic Styles
I don't want to pay a 20 dollar cover charge to see something i could do myself at home.

so stay at home and mix for an audience of one.

Originally posted by Mystic Styles
By the way, do you think anyone who's not an A list dj (sasha, PvD, etc) would not get laughed off the stage if they showed up with just a laptop to play on?

yes - unless of course the audience consists entirely of people who care more about how than what.

alasdair
 
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"...you ignorant fuck..."

Originally posted by roliepolie
I can already see the level of leadership we have in these forums... I don't think I would lower the standard any, if selected.


alasdair
 
alasdairm said:
unless of course the audience consists entirely of people who care more about how than what.

alasdair
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i would rather this than a bunch of pilled out kandy kids that make me want to punch em in the face. To have a more educated crowd is what any music lover would want to be around, why would you want anything else?
 
I would also like to add that one of the best nights I've had was seeing Nick Warren.... who's mixing is nothing spectacular but his track selection and placement is second to none!

Its all about the music to me.... I don't care how you get it to me.. decks or PC :)
 
Originally posted by Mystic Styles
i would rather this than a bunch of pilled out kandy kids that make me want to punch em in the face.

it's not clear why you're so angry and intolerant but your comments smack of elitism which, if nothing else, seems out of line with the spirit of a forum focused on art.

perhaps some musicians recognise that different people are moved in different ways by music? different people enjoy music in different ways and for different reasons.

the enjoyment of one person - who, say, has no idea what mixing means - has as much value as the enjoyment of another who, say, knows mixing inside out and could do a better job than the artist in question.

Originally posted by Mystic Styles
To have a more educated crowd is what any music lover would want to be around, why would you want anything else?

nothing more than a more educated crowd?

what about an appreciative crowd? a happy crowd? an inquisitive crowd? a reflective crowd? a receptive crowd? an emotional crowd? an animated crowd? a million other types of crowd? a crowd who just plain dig what's coming out of the speakers with no concern for how it's made? i can see that.

alasdair
 
I agree with you Alasdair. Music as performance art is the point, the medium is inconsequential.

Moving the crowd is the point, pure and simple.
 
so your saying if a guy had a mix on his computer that he spent time (before the gig) making a perfect mix, then just hit play and and acted like he was doing stuff back there (which isn't that farfetched by the way)... you wouldn't be mad that you paid money to see that? Who wants to see some over paid geek with a laptop? What if your favorite rock musician just played their songs on a laptop when they came out instead of live with instruments? would you still want to see them?
 
I agree with you on that one Mystic. I wouldn't want to see a preprogrammed mix. That takes the "performance" out of the art.

However if that geek with a laptop is [re]mixing the songs live and reading the crowd and putting his heart, soul, mind, and energy into the performance... then it doesn't matter.
 
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^ i find myself agreeing with what asmodeus writes here.

there's a parallel with being more concerned about what kind of paint and brushes monet used to paint his water lilies instead of just standing back and enjoying a beautiful painting...

alasdair
 
^^ Good point... I went and saw the Rolling Stones 2 years ago in Nyc, and the band just STOOD there, and had people in the background playing their music... THEY EVEN INTRODUCED THEM!!!

I paid 200 dollars to see that show, man... and ya know what? I threw all of their shit in the trash at that instant when I returned home.

It matters to more people than you know... what this forum is ACTUALLY about is harm reduction, and this music forum should be no different.

I feel that harm will be caused to my artform, by diluting it with lesser talents and phonies, with no real talent... I know how to use Ableton Live... I know what it does... and I know what it is capable of--and seeing Sasha use it, and having previously seen him, I know for a FACT that it isn't helping him perform any better...

at this point, you keep saying that your form of producing music is viable... you are talking to someone you obviously think is a snob(self admitted) and trying to say "I say it is, and all opinions have worth" yea... they might all have worth, but some pieces of money are worth less than others, so are opinions...

an example would be Christopher Columbus proving that the world was round--noone just accepted that... someone had to prove it... likewise, your delivery of music is flat... prove otherwise, or sail off the end of the world.
 
and I prefer water color over egg tempera, mainly because one is easier to use, and I respect the mountains a person has to climb to attain a perfect set...

if a person spends 10 years mixing records, they still prolly make mistakes all the time... if a person takes 2 weeks with Ableton, they could perform flawlessly live... the learning curve is absurd... too easy, in addition to the fact that it is souless, and without actual skill being involved.

this is like calling people who clean toilets custodial artists.
 
if a person spends 10 years mixing records, they still prolly make mistakes all the time... if a person takes 2 weeks with Ableton, they could perform flawlessly live... the learning curve is absurd... too easy, in addition to the fact that it is souless, and without actual skill being involved.
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That's what I don't like about your argument. Who are you to say what music, and what combinations of music, are soulless and what's not? Music is inherently emotional, great music is very much so, and all that a DJ needs to do to be excellent, is move between such music in such a way that the transitions and key-changes deliver emotion. That's it. Whether or not they beat-matched the music themselves, as long as the transitions are good, they're doing well.

I have a much bigger beef with DJs who play shit music, mixed perfectly than I do with a DJ who can't mix but has impeccable taste (and no, I ain't naming any names yet)!

This bit especially "the learning curve is absurd... too easy", I've spent 4 years trying to understand how to move between songs, and I still have ages to go, it's ridiculous the accumulated knowledge required to reach any kind of a high level. This same learning curve applies to Ableton. If you don't have a sense for how to combine rhythms and grooves, how to layer melodies, and harmonize, then you will be shit on decks and shit on Ableton. Those are the skills that matter, and it doesn't matter at all what platform you use to express them.

IMO! ;)
 
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