What to do when a friend goes completely crazy on psychedelics?

[tacodude]

There's more ways of hurting oneself as I pointed out plus it is better than waking up in jail. Sure restraining and sedating is preferred, but the op was not prepared for that and the person tripping did not prepare himself for the possibility of the bad trip so he called the medical "professionals" to assist in sedating and restraining him also ivolving a lot of paperwork. Any results of a bad trip is the fault of the person tripping for not preparing themself. It was irresponsible to put his friends through this and the op is a damn good friend for staying with him the whole time and abandoning him possibly leading to him in a worse situation such as jail, paralysis, or death because of bad decisions made while tripping as that's very common. Anyone who critisizes the op is only causing harm by spreading fear of seeking help when people need it. It's why people die.


To AA375 1. It's obvious you have never been homeless or really had to struggle for your home and life 2. I hope you never have to deal with opiates. They are a blessing and a curse for pain management. Without it I have to utalize incapacitating amounts of cannabis I can't afford even in a legal medical state that's been quite develop and feeds most the country....

You're probably right about being stronger than me, but I'm coming from a life of a neglectful toxic relation with my parents involving abuse to even more recent abusive relations as well as getting screwed pretty much everywhere as it's not ok to anyone for me to be weak unless I relive through all my past trauma inside just to find the right words so idiots like you understand just because someone is physically weak or struggling in life doesn't mean you do more than them or are better than then. You are just an ungreatful lucky prick with its head so far up its own ass it don't know how good it got. One day though I'll do a lot more than you in life because I don't focus on how good I have it and what I can do i in life to make it better for everyone including myself.


Just remember that tough love shit and turning down a friend in need just because of a habit might just put them into a worse position. Heroin doesn't make people monsters, but it does bring out the inner junkie in most and fiend in some especially those who have a lack of impulse control that definitely occurs in people more alienated forces to live for themselves rather than have community support and live with the community feeling a reason and joy giving back to a community that supports them.

 

[szuko000]

If you enjoy tripping and you have friends you trip with you will probably witness one of them go crazy. Some people just can't handle psychedelics or the situation breaks them but if you keep mixing people places and psychedelics I just feel it happens.

The best you can do is physically restrain them or knock them out. Time should make them better but if nothing else you will prevent them from getting arrested. It would appear in my experience at least one falls into two categories catatonic where they just lay there motionless incoherent and unable to respond to stimuli or they have a paranoid psychotic break where they feel everyone is trying to kill them. Either way just keep em alive and keep em restrained. Don't be afraid to use force because odds are they will not remember you or respond to commands.

 

[Doldrugs]

If it was police/hospital or getting choked out by AA357, I know which option I'd choose EVERY TIME.

 

[DrGreenthumb]

You shouldn't restrain somebody who has gone crazy on psychedelics (or stimulants), it can cause rhabdomyolysis from the muscle tension & them trying to fight the restraint. Give them sedatives, benzos or anti-psychotics (not weed) & take them to a quiet calm environment.

People can often be talked down. Quiet relaxing music. A bit of fruit / juice. Anything to calm & distract them. Nobody ever needed to go to hospital or get choked out when they tripped with me.

 

[AA357]

There's more ways of hurting oneself as I pointed out plus it is better than waking up in jail. Sure restraining and sedating is preferred, but the op was not prepared for that and the person tripping did not prepare himself for the possibility of the bad trip so he called the medical "professionals" to assist in sedating and restraining him also ivolving a lot of paperwork. Any results of a bad trip is the fault of the person tripping for not preparing themself. It was irresponsible to put his friends through this and the op is a damn good friend for staying with him the whole time and abandoning him possibly leading to him in a worse situation such as jail, paralysis, or death because of bad decisions made while tripping as that's very common. Anyone who critisizes the op is only causing harm by spreading fear of seeking help when people need it. It's why people die.

I agree with you on that... the guy who fucked out on psychedelics was 100% at fault. Can't really fault the OP if he was actually incapable of restraining and sedating the offender. Just saying, grappling skills are damn useful to have. As is diazepam.

To AA375 1. It's obvious you have never been homeless or really had to struggle for your home and life

Has anybody ever called you judgmental?
Last thing I want to do is air my dirty linen in public and start dicksizing about who's been through the most shit in their life but let's just say you'd be surprised.

2. I hope you never have to deal with opiates. They are a blessing and a curse for pain management. Without it I have to utalize incapacitating amounts of cannabis I can't afford even in a legal medical state that's been quite develop and feeds most the country....

I have extensive experience with opiates. My opiate of choice and the one my GP prescribes me in large quantities (over the phone, no questions asked) is codeine. I have been getting that stuff as and when needed for over 10 years. To be honest I'm actually very surprised at how low the risk of addiction and dependence is with this drug when it's used responsibly - I vastly overestimated it. I do get a tolerance but no signs of withdrawal or anything like that even after a month of near daily usage.
I don't know if you caught the part where I said I'm a trained grappler. I've had my fair share of injuries; some of which required taking this drug in pretty high daily amounts (up to 180mg) for a few weeks at a time. I also like to have MXE on hand - it's actually a lot better than opiates for pain relief and when you have both MXE and opiate painkillers, you don't have to end up having to take opiates every single day.
About 6 years ago I got given a load of 2mg subutex (buprenorphine) tabs for a stupidly low price (about 50 of them were given for free!). I didn't even like it that much but I was a kid with no money and it was a cheap high. I went through a phase of snorting 1mg per evening up to 5 times in a week. Eventually I just grew sick of waking up feeling basically hungover every morning. One morning I slept through my alarm and missed a job interview. I woke up in a rage and tossed the rest of them out of my window - about 40 loose pills. I never experienced any signs of tolerance, addiction or dependence and I never regretted tossing the stuff.

You're probably right about being stronger than me, but I'm coming from a life of a neglectful toxic relation with my parents involving abuse to even more recent abusive relations as well as getting screwed pretty much everywhere as it's not ok to anyone for me to be weak unless I relive through all my past trauma inside just to find the right words so idiots like you understand just because someone is physically weak or struggling in life doesn't mean you do more than them or are better than then. You are just an ungreatful lucky prick with its head so far up its own ass it don't know how good it got. One day though I'll do a lot more than you in life because I don't focus on how good I have it and what I can do i in life to make it better for everyone including myself.

Man you're judgmental as fuck.
You automatically think that just because I said I don't associate with smackheads that I'm some kind of sheltered priviliged kid with a chip on his shoulder who "doesn't understand". Fuck you.
My life story and family history is a real headfuck and I often resorted to drugs (but not heroin) to help me get through shit. You just gotta remember that no bad now things are at the moment, they would be 100x worse if you were addicted to opiates.

Just remember that tough love shit and turning down a friend in need just because of a habit might just put them into a worse position. Heroin doesn't make people monsters, but it does bring out the inner junkie in most and fiend in some especially those who have a lack of impulse control that definitely occurs in people more alienated forces to live for themselves rather than have community support and live with the community feeling a reason and joy giving back to a community that supports them.

I have an immediate family member who I haven't spoken to in nearly 5 years. She is a heroin addict. Actually I cut her off about a year before she discovered opies because of a load of trouble she caused me (some of it unintentional but the vast majority of it was out of malice). She is a bona fide, full-blown psychopath.

 

[Kl519]

Practically everyone here is on point. These are simply tips and information in case the OP or anyone else needs it. What the OP did wasn't necessarily wrong or dumb (actually very sympathetic and courageous, some people don't do anything to help, or just a tiny bit because they are scared or apprehensive), but it definitely could've been handled a better way.

And it's obvious szuko has seen it. Those who trip that badly really do fall into that catatonic state, or they just go ballistic and act in complete disregard for others. Fortunately, myself and others I know fall into that catatonic state.

I could only remember two others who went the other way, but I didn't know them very well and they didn't have much regard/decency for others even sober, from what I observed from their behavior. They were rude, selfish and just didn't like doing things for others, rather they liked it when others did things for them only. If one is like this and is on a psychedelic, then beware. It's not certain at all that they'll react like "Evan" did, and I don't think that many people lose it completely in proportion to the drug populace, but it's just a personal link I've observed from my own experiences.

 

[sailor bugg]

This is the reason I don't trip with other people. I wouldn't be able to deal with something like that, that must have been so stressful. The last time I did mushrooms with a friend he started talking about really weird stuff and acting creepy, so I told him I was tired and wanted to go to bed. He said he would just stay at my place and chill in my apartment while I slept, but thankfully he decided to leave.

 

[Trying2Iso]

This is the reason I don't trip with other people. I wouldn't be able to deal with something like that, that must have been so stressful. The last time I did mushrooms with a friend he started talking about really weird stuff and acting creepy, so I told him I was tired and wanted to go to bed. He said he would just stay at my place and chill in my apartment while I slept, but thankfully he decided to leave.

don't trip with me then
XD

 

[sailor bugg]

Heh I just extracted LSA from morning glory seeds for him too lol. He wanted to do it together heh, nope!

 

[tripnnface]

I would blame the weed if anything. Like it or not, weed has a very anxious side to it. Bringing it into a high dose of psychedelic like that should not be taken lightly.

As for the benzos, I can't see them do anything but helping. People really should keep them on hand while tripping as a safety net.

this

 

[Xorkoth]

Okay I removed a post. To the poster of the post I removed, if you don't want to bring politics into it don't retort in the way you did. That's politics far more than mentioning that police are becoming more dangerous in this country. We don't need to hear about media-driven opinions on certain events in the psychedelic drugs forum. But we do have a forum for that.

 

[tripnnface]

ok. regardless.
if your friend is freaking out; you can tackle him and handle it.
or the police can tackle him and he can go to jail (or worse)
which option is better? police are not your friend; and they are not trained to be your friend. and that is when you are sober.
"What-to-do-when-a-friend-goes-completely-crazy-on-psychedelics "
not involve police.

 

[szuko000]

People can often be talked down. Quiet relaxing music. A bit of fruit / juice. Anything to calm & distract them. Nobody ever needed to go to hospital or get choked out when they tripped with me.

This is a common misconception as we are not talking about a bad trip. In a bad trip the person on the substance can and does respond to stimuli meaning that they are still coherent and rational. Once a person "completely loses it" or experiences a break they do not respond to stimuli in a rational sense. This means to them you are a giant 5 headed monster breathing fire who is trying to consume his or her soul. It sounds completely crazy but that is what they are and that is how they see the world.

Sometimes you will get what I refer to as "bulbbles of consciousness" where for a few seconds they calm down and may even almost act normal, do not be fooled because they will fall back into it. When my cousin went insane (5 hours of having to keep him down on a bed while he screamed at the top of his lungs we were with satan trying to sacrifice him) his friend got him to play guitar and sing for about 10 seconds before he smashed his friend with the guitar and ran out of the room i had to tackle him in the street. This happened when I took my 10 minute break to piss and get myself together I stupidly left him with people who havent dealt with it.

His friend also had the idea that "hey a change of scenery may help" I begged them to not take him, that he wasnt fit for the beach and that even though we will be alone and no one for miles he is preparing to get naked and run in the street. So we take him to the beach hes calmed down a bit, I didnt want to go at all. We get there, once the car stops he jumps out rips his shirt and shoes off and runs screaming he was kidnapped and we are trying to kill him.

I hope you understand how bad that is "these people are trying to kill me!!!!" as you chase someone down the public road. Having to ensure his parents he just had too much to drink, yeah right. Please be prepared for this the second you leave them alone tehy will break into someones house and threaten their children (another story when people trip WITHOUT me) or they will run into traffic and get killed. Please ive seen it plenty of times in fact i make a general announcement at festivals that i will no be operating the mental hospital and i will just take you to professionals because i spent money to attend this isnt my house and its not the time to push limits.

Please guys you are in trusted with their lives when they go insane. You can prevent PTSD by keeping them from getting arrested. You can keep them alive. You dont get to just leave them because they are acting up or get mad at them because they ruined your night, yeah well you choosing to do drugs with them put you directly responsible for their life now. Doing drugs is an adult thing so unfortunately you dont get to run away for problems that arise.

 

[Doldrugs]

This is a common misconception as we are not talking about a bad trip. In a bad trip the person on the substance can and does respond to stimuli meaning that they are still coherent and rational. Once a person "completely loses it" or experiences a break they do not respond to stimuli in a rational sense. This means to them you are a giant 5 headed monster breathing fire who is trying to consume his or her soul. It sounds completely crazy but that is what they are and that is how they see the world.

Sometimes you will get what I refer to as "bulbbles of consciousness" where for a few seconds they calm down and may even almost act normal, do not be fooled because they will fall back into it. When my cousin went insane (5 hours of having to keep him down on a bed while he screamed at the top of his lungs we were with satan trying to sacrifice him) his friend got him to play guitar and sing for about 10 seconds before he smashed his friend with the guitar and ran out of the room i had to tackle him in the street. This happened when I took my 10 minute break to piss and get myself together I stupidly left him with people who havent dealt with it.

His friend also had the idea that "hey a change of scenery may help" I begged them to not take him, that he wasnt fit for the beach and that even though we will be alone and no one for miles he is preparing to get naked and run in the street. So we take him to the beach hes calmed down a bit, I didnt want to go at all. We get there, once the car stops he jumps out rips his shirt and shoes off and runs screaming he was kidnapped and we are trying to kill him.

I hope you understand how bad that is "these people are trying to kill me!!!!" as you chase someone down the public road. Having to ensure his parents he just had too much to drink, yeah right. Please be prepared for this the second you leave them alone tehy will break into someones house and threaten their children (another story when people trip WITHOUT me) or they will run into traffic and get killed. Please ive seen it plenty of times in fact i make a general announcement at festivals that i will no be operating the mental hospital and i will just take you to professionals because i spent money to attend this isnt my house and its not the time to push limits.

Please guys you are in trusted with their lives when they go insane. You can prevent PTSD by keeping them from getting arrested. You can keep them alive. You dont get to just leave them because they are acting up or get mad at them because they ruined your night, yeah well you choosing to do drugs with them put you directly responsible for their life now. Doing drugs is an adult thing so unfortunately you dont get to run away for problems that arise.

I agree with all of this. There's a point past which communication is impossible. It is not always bad; I've had very lovely mushroom trips where I was completely incapable of communicating anything to my trip mate. But when someone in that mode is causing problems, communication isn't and can't be the answer. I thought the guy trying to talk me down from my own meltdown was some sort of super villain white supremacist. He was like David duke mixed with Saruman mixed with Loki. In reality he's a very kind, intelligent gentleman. In the state I was in, it was impossible for me to understand that. Communication in general was impossible.

Communicate with their body by stopping them from self harming or harming others. Communicate with their brain directly by giving them sedatives and drugs known to reduce the mental effects of psychedelics.

 

[Pontius Pilate]

You shouldn't restrain somebody who has gone crazy on psychedelics (or stimulants), it can cause rhabdomyolysis from the muscle tension & them trying to fight the restraint.

An important word of medical advice I feel was overlooked.

If you are physically capable, restraint is an option, but please don't resort to depriving anyone of oxygen. What if they were extremely hypertensive due to the -NBOME overdose? Or they could go into a cardiac arrest or begin to seize.. Don't faint people outside sport, but especially not on drugs.

 

[tacodude]

To AA I just have to say that's a terrible way to look at your family no matter how much they struggle. Plus you probably share issues sharing genetics. Ya I'm judgemental and so what? I have a right to do so and think it's appropriate at this time. I have nothing else to say. It's a waste of effort

 

[DrGreenthumb]

An important word of medical advice I feel was overlooked.

If you are physically capable, restraint is an option, but please don't resort to depriving anyone of oxygen. What if they were extremely hypertensive due to the -NBOME overdose? Or they could go into a cardiac arrest or begin to seize.. Don't faint people outside sport, but especially not on drugs.

Restraint isn't a great option, at least not something forceful. It'll often make it worse, add to the feelings of paranoia & "these people are going to kill me", they can fight restraints & the muscle tension can cause kidney damage, even death. Try to keep them in a room & calm them rather than wrestling them & tying them up.

A quiet room with just a couple of trusted friends who can gently talk them down is best. Benzos can help too.

When somebody is in that state their memory is totally shot & they're very suggestible. It can often be easier than you think to bring them down. I dealt with a friend who had eaten too much lsd, drunk, smoked strong hash, picked up two swords & started trying to stab people just by talking him down, no extra drugs, no violence & we got away with just a couple of holes in the sofa.

I'd only get an ambulance if somebody looked in serious physical danger. If they're having seizures, if they're going blue, if they're overheating dangerously, then it's going to need a medical professional. If they've just gone crazy then all a hospital is going to do is sedate them & keep them in a quiet room. Police are just going to look for people to arrest.

 

[Bare_head]

Hey i know who i would let at my house to trip, anyone i didnt know well enough i wouldnt let in my house to trip.. i know most of my frinends well and i am very careful about when someone else is injesting on my property

 

[AA357]

To AA I just have to say that's a terrible way to look at your family no matter how much they struggle. Plus you probably share issues sharing genetics. Ya I'm judgemental and so what? I have a right to do so and think it's appropriate at this time. I have nothing else to say. It's a waste of effort

Have you ever known a full-blown psychopath? This person has absolutely no regard for anybody but herself. She is highly manipulative and sadistic and will screw ANYBODY over - family and friends mean absolutely NOTHING to her. The fact that this family member is a heroin addict is MINOR compared to the misery she caused myself and my family (which happened LONG before she started taking hard drugs).

I think you might be right about it being a genetic thing. Antisocial personality disorder does run in my family and I myself have it to a lesser degree (I'm not a pure psychopath).

 

[Erikmen]

Why do you think you're a psychopath? Normally psychopaths don't have such awareness of their condition as far as I know.